Is Jamarcus Russel worse than Ryan Leaf?

[Tre]

I think Heyward-Bey will be ok for the longterm.  He showed much better hands at MD.  Trying to learn the position with a shit QB isn't helping him a bit.

I'm not so sure.  He played in the ACC, which isn't even a shadow of its former self.  The shit defenses in that conference made him look better than he actually is and he didn't even look that good. 

[Tre]

I don't care what anyone says, you need a player with football instincts and smarts - along with an accurate arm - at the QB position if you want to build a winning franchise in the NFL.  Plan on winning a Super Bowl?  That's the guy you want back there directing your offense. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

Check out that list of SB winners and try to find the teams that had an idiot at QB.  You're going to be going back pretty far.  Say what you want about Trent Dilfer's skill set, but you can't deny that he was smart.  Even silly Jim McMahon ('86 Bears) was a bright guy. 

If that's not the type of player you draft #1 to be your 'quarterback of the future', then you aren't planning to win many games, period.

[big L dawg]

Actually Warren Moon did lead the league in passing yardage a couple of years and was a pretty good pocket QB. He wasn't a runner like some of the others.

I agree

yes...he is worse.....99% of all African American QB's that go to the NFL are highly overrated...yea there great in college but the pro's is a whole dif world & they cant hang....mcnabb and warren moon are about it.and last time I checked they didnt/havent won a superbowl....so that about sums it up..

I liked warren moon alot..He is the only African American QB in the hall of fame which also further  justifies my points.But what do we judge success by in sports?..championships...

Like I said the only current African American QB I see with a shot to win a SB is Mcnabb and his window of opportunity is closing fast...sorry but unless theres another one hit wonder flash in the pan guy that steps in on a great team and plays the game of his life like Doug Williams you won't see an African American win a SB.

[Tre]

I liked warren moon alot..He is the only African American QB in the hall of fame which also further  justifies my points.But what do we judge success by in sports?..championships...

Like I said the only current African American QB I see with a shot to win a SB is Mcnabb and his window of opportunity is closing fast...sorry but unless theres another one hit wonder flash in the pan guy that steps in on a great team and plays the game of his life like Doug Williams you won't see an African American win a SB.

Steve McNair (PIP) was this close to winning a Super Bowl (or at least sending it to overtime), and he rushed for over 60 yards in that game and didn't turn the ball over once. 

By contrast, when McNabb made it to the Super Bowl, he threw 3 interceptions and overall, the Eagles were -3 in turnovers in a game they lost by 3 points.  Although I can't remember the specific plays, there were at least 2-3 instances where he should've tucked the ball and run, but instead threw an interception or incomplete pass.  If one didn't know any better, he might easily conclude that McNabb tried too hard to be something he wasn't...a pocket passer. 

I don't know the situation with Vince Young, but he's on a good team with the talent to be good for the next several years, despite how things are going this season.  If he can undo that chemical imbalance, he could potentially lead the Titans to a conference title game or two.
 

[Option D]

They won a superbowl in spite of Doug Williams not because of him....

Dude are you fucking insane
In one of the Super Bowl's superlative displays of passing, Washington's Doug Williams led a second-quarter offensive explosion that clinched a 42-10 victory over Denver. Williams completed 18-of-29 passes for a Super Bowl record 340 yards. He tied a Super Bowl record with four touchdown passes, all of which came in the second quarter.

Trailing 10-0 entering the second quarter, the Redskins went on a scoring binge unmatched in NFL postseason history. Scoring touchdowns on all five of their possessions, they put the game out of reach.

In the first minute of the quarter, Williams connected with wide receiver Ricky Sanders for an 80-yard score. Four minutes later, the quarterback hit wide receiver Gary Clark with a 27-yard touchdown pass. After a 58-yard TD run by running back Timmy Smith, Williams struck again, this time on 50-yard pass to Sanders. The final score of the comeback quarter came on an 8-yard pass to tight end Clint Didier.

Williams' MVP performance is all the more incredible given that he had earlier had to leave game temporarily after a knee-twisting hit.



Yeah they won Inspite of him. Not because of him   

[big L dawg]

Dude are you fucking insane
In one of the Super Bowl's superlative displays of passing, Washington's Doug Williams led a second-quarter offensive explosion that clinched a 42-10 victory over Denver. Williams completed 18-of-29 passes for a Super Bowl record 340 yards. He tied a Super Bowl record with four touchdown passes, all of which came in the second quarter.

Trailing 10-0 entering the second quarter, the Redskins went on a scoring binge unmatched in NFL postseason history. Scoring touchdowns on all five of their possessions, they put the game out of reach.

In the first minute of the quarter, Williams connected with wide receiver Ricky Sanders for an 80-yard score. Four minutes later, the quarterback hit wide receiver Gary Clark with a 27-yard touchdown pass. After a 58-yard TD run by running back Timmy Smith, Williams struck again, this time on 50-yard pass to Sanders. The final score of the comeback quarter came on an 8-yard pass to tight end Clint Didier.

Williams' MVP performance is all the more incredible given that he had earlier had to leave game temporarily after a knee-twisting hit.

yes he was MVP the sun shines on a dogs ass from time to time and that was the one and only time....did he get them to the superbowl?...no he had two starts the whole year and both starts were losses...Jay Schroeder was the starter but had injury issues...Doug Williams lifetime QB rating is 69.4 dude thats pathetic.and his overall record is 31-34-1....yea real great huh...

And to be fair....And show that you can talk about race without being racist....I can flip the coin and talk about running backs and wide receivers...

Is there a single white RB or WR that compairs to there elite African American counterparts?...No...

look at running backs like Jim Brown,Barry Sanders,Emmit Smith,Adrian Peterson and many many more...

look at wide receivers like Jerry rice,Tim brown,Randy Moss,Andre Johnson,Larry Fitzgerald and many more...

theres not a single white RB or WR that compairs to the talent of these men....Is that racist?no thats just telling the truth and calling it like it is...The fact is African Americans as a whole are more genetically gifted runners.This translates better to the WR,RB position...but not to well to the QB position....

he's a product of a Joe Gibbs team that was excellent.but had he been the regular starter all year they wouldn't have even made it to the superbowl.Doug Williams = a one time flash in the pan...

If you look at the QB's that win multiple superbowls you will see that most have one thing in common.They are pocket passers....9 out of ten African American qb's in the NFL are scramblers they rely on there legs as much or more than there arm....this can win them a few games but by the end of the season there usually to worn down or beat up and injured due to this playing style...look I'm just going by the numbers and as they say statistics don't lie.

Yeah they won Inspite of him. Not because of him   

like I said he wasn't even there starter in the regular season...he started two games that whole year and they lost both...I admitted that I mis spoke about the super bowl itself...however like I've said the fact that you can only point out one instance out of all the superbowls basically makes my point for me....same as the hall of fame 1 black QB in the entire NFL hall of fame....

but I've addressed all this maybe you should work on reading comprehension....


no need to get mad or take things personal dude it's just a fact white QB's preform better...just like black RB and WR perform better....does the truth really hurt that bad?

[Option D]

he's a product of a Joe Gibbs team that was excellent.but had he been the regular starter all year they wouldn't have even made it to the superbowl.Doug Williams = a one time flash in the pan...

If you look at the QB's that win multiple superbowls you will see that most have one thing in common.They are pocket passers....9 out of ten African American qb's in the NFL are scramblers they rely on there legs as much or more than there arm....this can win them a few games but by the end of the season there usually to worn down or beat up and injured due to this playing style...look I'm just going by the numbers and as they say statistics don't lie.




Yeah they won Inspite of him. Not because of him   



like I said he wasn't even there starter in the regular season...he started two games that whole year and they lost both...I admitted that I mis spoke about the super bowl itself...however like I've said the fact that you can only point out one instance out of all the superbowls basically makes my point for me....same as the hall of fame 1 black QB in the entire NFL hall of fame....

but I've addressed all this maybe you should work on reading comprehension....


no need to get mad or take things personal dude it's just a fact white QB's preform better...just like black RB and WR perform better....does the truth really hurt that bad?

Come on dude...i dont get mad...look at me...

But what im saying is, there was a stigma with black qb's, middle linebackers,and pitchers...saying they didnt have the mental capacity to play those position the ladder 2 have been dispelled...but my contention is that historically blacks were taught that qb was a white position..Warren Moon...was a beast at Hamilton High out in LA...Dude was told he cant play qb in college...go to wide out..Well except for UW..then he still dosent go the the NFL..because he is a black QB...he finally had to win like 8 grey cups to get a chance in the nfl. And the rest is history. All im saying is, Let blacks get a foot in the door at something, and we proove to do just as well...blacks been playin qb in the nfl since when...the mid 80s...whites had a 50 year head start..its not a race thing bro..Black skin dosent make one a bad qb, and white skin dosent make one a good one. But blacks just havent looked to play qb until the 80s because of dumb ass racism.

[big L dawg]

Come on dude...i dont get mad...look at me...

But what im saying is, there was a stigma with black qb's, middle linebackers,and pitchers...saying they didnt have the mental capacity to play those position the ladder 2 have been dispelled...but my contention is that historically blacks were taught that qb was a white position..Warren Moon...was a beast at Hamilton High out in LA...Dude was told he cant play qb in college...go to wide out..Well except for UW..then he still dosent go the the NFL..because he is a black QB...he finally had to win like 8 grey cups to get a chance in the nfl. And the rest is history. All im saying is, Let blacks get a foot in the door at something, and we proove to do just as well...blacks been playin qb in the nfl since when...the mid 80s...whites had a 50 year head start..its not a race thing bro..Black skin dosent make one a bad qb, and white skin dosent make one a good one. But blacks just havent looked to play qb until the 80s because of dumb ass racism.

I agree with that for the most part.and like I said I liked warren moon....but.....all the current African American QB's in the NFL and in college have had there whole life to work as an QB just as the white guys have.So you cant use the "they haven't had enough time"argument....What up and coming African American QB wether in the NFL or college looks to have the potential to be the next Joe Montana?,John Elway?,Drew Bress?,Payton manning?,..?None of um...So I stand behind my statement.Just as I stand by my statement that no white RB or WR has ever come close to being as good as there black counterparts..

[Option D]

I agree with that for the most part.and like I said I liked warren moon....but.....all the current African American QB's in the NFL and in college have had there whole life to work as an QB just as the white guys have.So you cant use the "they haven't had enough time"argument....What up and coming African American QB wether in the NFL or college looks to have the potential to be the next Joe Montana?,John Elway?,Drew Bress?,Payton manning?,..?None of um...So I stand behind my statement.Just as I stand by my statement that no white RB or WR has ever come close to being as good as there black counterparts..

I like McNabb..dude only lead his team to 5 nfc championship games and one superbowl..

[big L dawg]

I like McNabb..dude only lead his team to 5 nfc championship games and one superbowl..

I agree

But what do we judge success by in sports?..championships...

Like I said the only current African American QB I see with a shot to win a SB is Mcnabb and his window of opportunity is closing fast...sorry but unless theres another one hit wonder flash in the pan guy that steps in on a great team and plays the game of his life like Doug Williams you won't see an African American win a SB.

just incase you missed this post.....

Mcnabb is no spring chicken.especially as injury prone as he is...dude has only played three full seasons in his entire career because of injury.Mcnabb has maybe 1-2 decent years left at best....after that who is there....

[Option D]

just incase you missed this post.....

Mcnabb is no spring chicken.especially as injury prone as he is...dude has only played three full seasons in his entire career because of injury.Mcnabb has maybe 1-2 decent years left at best....after that who is there....

dan marino

[Oldschool Flip]

All I can say is that black NFL coaches seem to be doing better as of late than their white counterparts.

[body88]

All I can say is that black NFL coaches seem to be doing better as of late than their white counterparts.

Based on what?

[Option D]

All I can say is that black NFL coaches seem to be doing better as of late than their white counterparts.

Tomlin, Dungy

[body88]

Tomlin, Dungy

Dungy is no longer in the NFL, so he would not be available under Flip's criteria.  However, Caldwell is African American.  I'd have to disagree on his premise though.  Aside from the Colts, the best teams in the NFL have Caucasian coaches.  Which has absolutely nothing to do with skin color either way.

[The Showstoppa]

I think the lack of development of many black QB's is started at a young age.  Some JV coach puts his best athlete at QB and at that age passing isn't usually something teams look to do, but now the QB is also the "best RB" on the team too. And it just continues in HS and often college. 
Just because a kid is playing QB, doesn't mean he's developing as a player.


And it isn't just a race thing.  My nephew played on a team with a kid in Cali who was physically unreal.  About 5 inches taller than the next biggest player, cannon for an arm and could run too.  Won a bunch of those punt/pass/kick deals.  I witnessed him throw a ball over 50yds at 13.  And guess what the idiot coach puts him at QB....should have been the TB, but fine.  Except they NEVER threw the ball....ever.  He just took the direct snap and took off.  Other teams figured it out, shut him down and the coach still wouldn't let him throw.  And he's a white kid.  If he doesn't get better coaching, he will be another "could have been."  Sad.

[Option D]

I think the lack of development of many black QB's is started at a young age.  Some JV coach puts his best athlete at QB and at that age passing isn't usually something teams look to do, but now the QB is also the "best RB" on the team too. And it just continues in HS and often college. 
Just because a kid is playing QB, doesn't mean he's developing as a player.


And it isn't just a race thing.  My nephew played on a team with a kid in Cali who was physically unreal.  About 5 inches taller than the next biggest player, cannon for an arm and could run too.  Won a bunch of those punt/pass/kick deals.  I witnessed him throw a ball over 50yds at 13.  And guess what the idiot coach puts him at QB....should have been the TB, but fine.  Except they NEVER threw the ball....ever.  He just took the direct snap and took off.  Other teams figured it out, shut him down and the coach still wouldn't let him throw.  And he's a white kid.  If he doesn't get better coaching, he will be another "could have been."  Sad.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[The Showstoppa]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

it was awful mal.  After the first series, the other teams wouldn't even bother covering the wideouts.  Kid was a horse though, it would take about 4 guys to get him down.  And the coach played some small ball down in s.cal I think.  Goes to show, players ain't coaches!

[Andy Griffin]

I realize Jamarcus Russel is struggling, but Ryan Leaf was such a monumental bust that it will hard to top him.  Jamarcus may be lazy, too busy partying, etc., but at least he doesn't (yet) have public meltdowns like Ryan did.

[Oldschool Flip]

Jamarcus Russell is a genius if he really can't play. He got paid knowing that he couldn't compete in the NFL.

[Oldschool Flip]

Based on what?

Except for Tampa Bay's head coach, all the other black coaches currently have winning records.

[big L dawg]

Jamarcus Russell is a genius if he really can't play. He got paid knowing that he couldn't compete in the NFL.

same with alex smith.thats why they both held out so long on there contracts.they knew they didnt have what it takes to get another big contract.

[Oldschool Flip]

same with alex smith.thats why they both held out so long on there contracts.they knew they didnt have what it takes to get another big contract.

Yep. 9ers ate it big with Smith. Aaron Rodgers blatantly asked SF to draft him and told them he would sign right away if they did. Bill Walsh even stated Rodgers over Smith. Go figure.

[body88]

Except for Tampa Bay's head coach, all the other black coaches currently have winning records.

Ok, and how many Caucasian coaches have winning records?  Who are the best teams in the NFL?  What are their records?  Skin color has nothing to do with it, just saying.  Tomlin inherited his team, btw.

[Oldschool Flip]

Ok, and how many Caucasian coaches have winning records?  Who are the best teams in the NFL?  What are their records?  Skin color has nothing to do with it, just saying.  Tomlin inherited his team, btw.

Well let's see 1 of 6 black coaches have a losing record and 12 of 26 have losing records of white coaches. Based on percentages the black coaches are doing better. Best teams in the NFL IMO are Colts, Saints, Giants, Vikings, Steelers, Patriots and Denver in that order. I agree with you about skin color not being a factor, I'm just pointing out that factually the black coaches are on the better end as of now.