New IFBB Pro Rules :The posing routine will not be scored?

[karu]

fixed

Chick gaining some new ass kissers on here.

Nothing more to say.

[kyomu]

Yes if the round dont count why have it? My guess so people will show up and pay money.

He said "Entertainment".
Then its gonna be like "guest appearance" but every competitors DONT GET PAID.
Thats ridiclous.

[Chick]

Chic, ANSWER my question please.

Then STILL  IS IT A OBLIGATION FOR THEM TO DO THE POSING ROUTINE?

Of course...its a show. Why wouldnt they want to do it? 

[kyomu]

Of course...its a show. Why wouldnt they want to do it? 

Ok, then all of competitors who contribute this "Exhibition" round should be PAID like a guest appearance no?

[Chick]

Ok, then all of competitors who contribute this "Exhibition" round should be PAID like a guest appearance no?

no

It's part of the show, it's a chance to make money, it's an opportunity to showcase your physique to the judges, fans, companies, etc...

I guess if anyone believes that going out there half assed will help them in some strange way...so bit it....but no one does that in the amateurs, and no one does that in the pro's even though neither one scores the posing round

[Topskin69]

what is sad is that the new generation of bb's cannot sustain the golden age rules. They have dropped the ball for sure.

Is this a result of sociologial change? No, more likely a result of the dumbing down of America, the lack of any education in the arts is showing itself in this ignorant decision to devalue the posing round. By marginilzing it, it will probably disappear all together.

Using profit as the only measure of somethings value is what is wrong with America today and with the IFBB. If there is no interest in art for the sake of art then so be it. But don't complain when your culture becomes more and more vacuous by the coporations that control it and you are feeling empty and spiritually lost.

The posing round was a way of taking the physical into the etheral. Making just simple biology and flesh into art. That was exciting and transformative.  Just going for big muscles through pharmacueticals and displaying them on stage to be measured is very animalistic and dull. Why not just leave slabs of marble on museum floors, no bother to see what they can become? Or leave canvasas empty? Why bother taking the everyday physical world into the realm of the spiritual? If it doesnt make money then get rid of it right?

The IFBB is just dumbing us down some more with this latest decision. Devaluing a tradition that inspired many of us to believe that through hard work, disipline and stick to it-ness we could transform something mortal into something magnificent.  Too bad the IFBB couldnt stick to it.

What makes me wonder about people that make decisions like this, is dont they have any gratituted to the world they grew up in. They seem to want to just rape and pillage it taking all material posession for themselves leaving nothing for the next generation, not even art.

NYC is right on the money here Chick. You need to stop and seriously think about this for a min...because all you are doing is lowering the bar instead of raising it. In other words, you are placating and championing mediorcity, by doing away with one of the few things that any smart competitor can use to his advantage: His presentation.

Let me ask everyone a question... Isnt one of the things that fascinated us with this "Sport," was watching Pumping Iron, and seeing how much thought and attention to presentation, people like Arnold, Franco, Corney, etc put into it? It was a craft, and it was unthinkable to not to dedicate a lot of time and effort to it. It shouldn't be surprising that the same people also were at the top of their craft...because they took all aspects of it seriously.

To negate the emphasis on posing, rather then trying to come up with ways to make it more important, (while still remaining practical), is to piss on an endeavor that has allready been tarnished enough. Its time to step up Chick, and do something to better this "Sport," because this new change sure as hell isn't the answer. All it means is a few more paydays for Melvin.

M!

[kyomu]

no

It's part of the show, it's a chance to make money, it's an opportunity to showcase your physique to the judges, fans, companies, etc...

I guess if anyone believes that going out there half assed will help them in some strange way...so bit it....but no one does that in the amateurs, and no one does that in the pro's even though neither one scores the posing round

Exactly how?

[mrusa85]

OK, so the decision's been made and the athletes are okay with the posing round not being scored because they proposed it. It's a done deal.

This is a change and people in general hate change. Why not deal with the change and come up with some ideas to help make the round better?

If this change is being made to improve the incentive for the athletes to come up with better routines for cash awards, shouldn't some standards or criteria be made or established so competitors know what is expected? For example, in Fitness competitions, the routine round has certain standards and movements for strength, balance and athleticism that need to be incorporated into their routines to score well. Could that be established in the men's posing round? For example, 5 of the 7 mandatory poses have to be incorporated or maybe do the opposite and limit the mandatories to only 3 so you prevent guys from hitting the same 10 shots over and over for 3 minutes.

Does it have to be winner-take-all? For example, why not have $5,000, $3,000 and $2,000 for 1st, 2nd and 3rd best?

Will lock-and-pop routines always be rewarded more than a Gunter Schleirkamp-type, old school routine? It shouldn't depend on who the judges are should it? Would an Ed Corney-type routine be some sort of standard? Transitions are somehow scored?

Since props were declared "illegal" about the time DeMilia's org. showcased them, what other things can make the round more entertaining? (I think Ronnie's Moses getup was the last to be used, right?)

The WBF tried some more entertaining things for the finals and most people look back and say that was a joke. What other things could be incorporated into a night show with out making it seem silly or staged?

Should the audience judge the posing round and take the judges out of the picture completely? Sort of like the people's choice during webcasts...

Those are a few ideas I just picked out of a hat. Anyone else got any?

[nycbull]

no

It's part of the show, it's a chance to make money, it's an opportunity to showcase your physique to the judges, fans, companies, etc...

I guess if anyone believes that going out there half assed will help them in some strange way...so bit it....but no one does that in the amateurs, and no one does that in the pro's even though neither one scores the posing round

Posing is supposed to be an art, NOT entertainment. That is where the fckin problem lies. No wonder you and your bosses accept sequined thongs and grinding hips. 

The art of posing has been demoted to a cheap vegas act, a filler show, a b side single , An afterthought when it should have been the centerpiece.

[dr.chimps]

Posing is supposed to be an art, NOT entertainment. That is where the fckin problem lies. No wonder you and your bosses accept sequined thongs and grinding hips. 

The art of posing has been demoted to a cheap vegas act, a filler show, a b side single , An afterthought when it should have been the centerpiece.

You might as well be trying to argue the merits of Vermeer to someone who watches America Idol.

[Chick]

NYC is right on the money here Chick. You need to stop and seriously think about this for a min...because all you are doing is lowering the bar instead of raising it. In other words, you are placating and championing mediorcity, by doing away with one of the few things that any smart competitor can use to his advantage: His presentation.

Let me ask everyone a question... Isnt one of the things that fascinated us with this "Sport," was watching Pumping Iron, and seeing how much thought and attention to presentation, people like Arnold, Franco, Corney, etc put into it? It was a craft, and it was unthinkable to not to dedicate a lot of time and effort to it. It shouldn't be surprising that the same people also were at the top of their craft...because they took all aspects of it seriously.

To negate the emphasis on posing, rather then trying to come up with ways to make it more important, (while still remaining practical), is to piss on an endeavor that has allready been tarnished enough. Its time to step up Chick, and do something to better this "Sport," because this new change sure as hell isn't the answer. All it means is a few more paydays for Melvin.

M!

Again...you speak as someone who knows not what he talks about...

First, no, it wasnt one of the things that made Pumnping Iron fun to watch..it was Arnold and Louie, and the Universe competition and the PERSONALITIES that were brought to the screen, and the look at a sub culture previuosly unknown to the masses...the posing had little to nothing to do with whether or not it was interesting.

So, a "smart" competitor uses the posing round to their advantage?  How does one do that when the posing round HAS NEVER BEEN JUDGED???

Is it a few more paydays for Melvin? Or is it the ideal opportunity for everyone to elevate their game and bring something to the table worthy of winning 10, 20K?

The posing routines are simply a showcase for the fans...there is plenty of competition to be seen via the prejudging and finals/ posedown.

[karu]

Do IFBB judges openly admit to not judging the posing round?

thats funny, because the scores seem to change after that round.

again bob Chick, speaking out of his ass, to further his agenda

Again...you speak as someone who knows not what he talks about...

First, no, it wasnt one of the things that made Pumnping Iron fun to watch..it was Arnold and Louie, and the Universe competition and the PERSONALITIES that were brought to the screen, and the look at a sub culture previuosly unknown to the masses...the posing had little to nothing to do with whether or not it was interesting.

So, a "smart" competitor uses the posing round to their advantage?  How does one do that when the posing round HAS NEVER BEEN JUDGED???

Is it a few more paydays for Melvin? Or is it the ideal opportunity for everyone to elevate their game and bring something to the table worthy of winning 10, 20K?

The posing routines are simply a showcase for the fans...there is plenty of competition to be seen via the prejudging and finals/ posedown.

[Chick]

Do IFBB judges openly admit to not judging the posing round?

thats funny, because the scores seem to change after that round.

again bob Chick, speaking out of his ass, to further his agenda

Thery judge it...as another physique round...thus the reason for change

again Karu speaking out of his ass

And what would be my "agenda", exactly?  Putting more money in athletes pockets?

[io856]

a lot people getting on their high horse about "art" and this and that but if the competitors and the majority of fans are not interested then whats the problem?

[erics]

... shouldn't some standards or criteria be made or established so competitors know what is expected? For example, in Fitness competitions, the routine round has certain standards and movements for strength, balance and athleticism that need to be incorporated into their routines to score well. Could that be established in the men's posing round? For example, 5 of the 7 mandatory poses have to be incorporated or maybe do the opposite and limit the mandatories to only 3 so you prevent guys from hitting the same 10 shots over and over for 3 minutes... Transitions are somehow scored?completely? Sort of like the people's choice during webcasts... Those are a few ideas I just picked out of a hat. Anyone else got any?

These are some excellent concepts to consider.

To make bodybuilding a SPORT you need to have criteria that the athletes and the fans can identify with and can follow. Things like certain types of poses being compulsory in a free posing routine as well as marking transitions, the way the athlete makes use of the music together with the body in motion. I mean if the best physique doesn't win because the athlete missed out on one pose, then too bad! Next time he won't make such an elementary mistake. In the end, after maybe a few teething problems, the best man will eventually and more than likely, regularly win.

If you limit the number of athletes then you will not be over run with scores of bring routines (though there will be of course such routines). You could then use the posing round as a real way to separate those who are in the mix and you would also give the sport a good shot of respectability.

The IFBB need only to consider the way that other artistic sports are organised and run.

Weight training is EVERYWHERE. It is not some underground activity. By making the athletes into 'heroic-types' you will only help spread a sense of acceptance and dignity for the sport that a non-fan can at least give respect to even if they do not care for it.

But please, gyrating hips and thongs? I mean, for heaven's sake, need it be any more clear?!?!?

The simple point is that by allowing bodybuilding to BE ABLE to be made use of by the mainstream, you will create further revenue opportunities for the sport and by extension, for the athletes.

Again, this is all basic sports marketing and it boggles the mind that the IFBB seemingly has not made use of any of this. Bodybuilding is very much a case of the small fish building for itself a smaller pond.

[lastrep]

Chic, ANSWER my question please.

Then STILL  IS IT A OBLIGATION FOR THEM TO DO THE POSING ROUTINE?

That's a great point for this new system.. if there is ZERO judging and you are in a show where say you have Kai, Melvin, Darrem, etc at a show and stand ZERO chance of beating them then why even waste your time?

Save your energy for the COMPETITION

[Chick]

These are some excellent concepts to consider.

To make bodybuilding a SPORT you need to have criteria that the athletes and the fans can identify with and can follow. Things like certain types of poses being compulsory in a free posing routine as well as marking transitions, the way the athlete makes use of the music together with the body in motion. I mean if the best physique doesn't win because the athlete missed out on one pose, then too bad! Next time he won't make such an elementary mistake. In the end, after maybe a few teething problems, the best man will eventually and more than likely, regularly win.

THis aint gymnastics, and there arent required elements, other than the mandatory poses, which they all do in comparison...so a guy misses a pose, and he loses a competition despite having the best physique? Kind of defeats the point of the competition..


If you limit the number of athletes then you will not be over run with scores of bring routines (though there will be of course such routines). You could then use the posing round as a real way to separate those who are in the mix and you would also give the sport a good shot of respectability.

Limiting the number of athletes limits the fan base, exposure, etc...you put way too much emphasis on the posng routine as the saviour...the REAL competition is in the comparisons/ mandatories, not in assessing a physique alone

The IFBB need only to consider the way that other artistic sports are organised and run.

Which are diametrically different than our own...we have the distinction of being totally subjective, and based in opinion


Weight training is EVERYWHERE. It is not some underground activity. By making the athletes into 'heroic-types' you will only help spread a sense of acceptance and dignity for the sport that a non-fan can at least give respect to even if they do not care for it.

So you figure a traditional routine will do the trick, huh? Giving respect doesnt automatically equate into dollars, or increased fan base...there are may sports I respect, but dont have any interest in



But please, gyrating hips and thongs? I mean, for heaven's sake, need it be any more clear?!?!?

Thongs?  Never seen one on stage... How many guys gyrate the hips? I never did, dont recall Jay doing it or Phil, or Branch, or many others

The simple point is that by allowing bodybuilding to BE ABLE to be made use of by the mainstream, you will create further revenue opportunities for the sport and by extension, for the athletes.

Mainstream has no interest because of many reasons, not bigger trunks, or more traditional routines or anything else will make it accepted...it is what it is...people simply cannot relate to such an extreme loo. Mainstream people relate to mainstream things...


Again, this is all basic sports marketing and it boggles the mind that the IFBB seemingly has not made use of any of this. Bodybuilding is very much a case of the small fish building for itself a smaller pond.

It's not basic sports marketing, as BB is not basic sports in any sense of the word

[Chick]

That's a great point for this new system.. if there is ZERO judging and you are in a show where say you have Kai, Melvin, Darrem, etc at a show and stand ZERO chance of beating them then why even waste your time?

Save your energy for the COMPETITION

That doesnt  even make any sense...if the routines arent being judged...then how is it a guy has no chance to beat them?

If you believe you have no chance to beat guys, then you shouldnt be competing to begin with

The competition is at the prejudging,,,which happens BEFORE the finals

THINK before you type

[NaturalWonder83]

That doesnt  even make any sense...if the routines arent being judged...then how is it a guy has no chance to beat them?

If you believe you have no chance to beat guys, then you shouldnt be competing to begin with

The competition is at the prejudging,,,which happens BEFORE the finals

THINK before you type

bob i heard about whats going on w the timeout board and your troubles-i hope everything works out ok 

[bigdumbbell]

most popular pro's are men of color.  it could be said that BB will never go mainstream because it's tough to market a sport to a general public when most of it's competitors are a racial minority flexing oilded muscles.  it's an odd sport in deed and i'm not even talking about the wardrobe.

[erics]

Sigh...

I see where this is going.

I guess this is what happens when a pond is defended by drinking up its water.

1. Introduce required elements and value them according to what criteria you would like to see rewarded,

2. Make sure your criteria has a connection with the past and with the future (in this way you tap into tradition as well possible new markets),

3. Understand how the sport can be made use of by people outside of the sport.

I mean, there are so many things that can be done but all of the repsonses to what some of what has been suggested in this thread has been nothing more than reactionary posts that show no imagination and reek of justifications.

There is no shame in being wrong!

[Chick]

Sigh...

I see where this is going.

I guess this is what happens when a pond is defended by drinking up its water.

1. Introduce required elements and value them according to what criteria you would like to see rewarded,

2. Make sure your criteria has a connection with the past and with the future (in this way you tap into tradition as well possible new markets),

3. Understand how the sport can be made use of by people outside of the sport.

I mean, there are so many things that can be done but all of the repsonses to what some of what has been suggested in this thread has been nothing more than reactionary posts that show no imagination and reek of justifications.

There is no shame in being wrong!

Every comment made has been responded to and answered...if it doesnt agree with YOUR opinion, I guess it's wrong, according to you...right?

There are many years of tradition, it doesnt mean they had it right. Every sport progresses and changes with the times.

[ManBearPig...]

Code: [Select]

Using profit as the only measure of somethings value is what is wrong with America today
check your facts sister, america's always been like this, and that's why it's number 1.  DOLLA DOLLA BILLZ YALL!

Olympia's not put on for "the love of the game", it's for money, pure and simple.  Let these prancers do whatever they want on stage, as long as there's a shitty protein brand banner above them, it's all fine by me.

[mrusa85]

How about having the fans have a full or partial vote on the posing round by texting votes like American Idol?

[musclecenter]

Every comment made has been responded to and answered...if it doesnt agree with YOUR opinion, I guess it's wrong, according to you...right?

There are many years of tradition, it doesnt mean they had it right. Every sport progresses and changes with the times.

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