Author Topic: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill  (Read 1610 times)

Soul Crusher

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www.lat.com

Democrats work on multibillion-dollar jobs package

Lawmakers say they're moving fast to get a job-creation bill to Obama by January. It's unclear how much of the effort would be funded with deficit spending.


________________________ ________________________ _________

Reporting from Washington - Troubled by the rising jobless rate, President Obama and the Democratic majority in Congress are assembling a new jobs package that would devote billions of dollars to projects meant to put people back on payrolls in 2010 and keep them working.

Discussions over the scale of the bill are fluid, but lawmakers said the intent was to move swiftly and get a bill to Obama's desk as early as January.

The renewed push to create jobs is driven by a recognition that the $787-billion stimulus program enacted in February is not a sufficient remedy for an unemployment rate that stands at 10.2%.

Nearly 16 million people were unemployed as of October, and 3.49 million jobs have been lost since January, when Obama took office, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The stimulus boosted employment but "did it in a way that was not as highly visible as a lot of people would like," said Rep. Betty Sutton (D-Ohio), one of the House members devising the jobs bill.

"It did so in somewhat of a scattershot approach -- a job here and a job there, trickled out over time. . . . Far too many Americans are without a job, and far too many more are worried about what tomorrow is going to bring," Sutton said.

Congressional aides said the new program could cost tens of billions of dollars. Democratic House members who had wanted a larger stimulus said they would press for a substantial spending plan this time.

"I hope we don't play around the edges with this and we do what will work. Invest the money now," said Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Oakland), who chairs the Congressional Black Caucus. "We have to create jobs, and we have to create them right away."

Lawmakers are considering myriad ways to accelerate job growth. In interviews, they mentioned road projects that can be counted on to employ people right away, loans to small businesses, incentives for companies that agree to manufacture products in the U.S., and special partnerships in which government tries to avert private sector layoffs by picking up a share of employee wages.

House members are also considering a plan to funnel aid to state and local governments with the assurance the money would be used to preserve jobs. Senate aides said the jobs plan would give priority to labor-intensive "brick-and-mortar" projects.

It is unclear how much of the effort would be financed through deficit spending. Rising deficits are becoming an increasing source of worry. This year, the deficit is projected to be $1.58 trillion.

Covering costs

Faced with so much red ink, lawmakers are exploring various payment mechanisms. Congressional aides said they might tap money left over from the fund used to bail out financial institutions. Other approaches include a 25-cent tax on each stock transaction, though Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner has expressed reservations about that idea.

Even if the plan inflates the deficit in the near term, the White House appears willing to accept that if the payoff is more jobs.

Asked if the deficit constrains the administration's options, one White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said: "No question that it's a delicate balance, but there's also no question that we've got to do more to address the jobs situation and to boost opportunities for middle-class families."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco) said this week that if the public were given a choice between a job and an uptick in the deficit, the answer would be easy.

"The American people have an anger about the growth of the deficit because they're not getting anything for it," she said in a conference call with bloggers and economists.

Bipartisan support appears to be absent. House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said the stimulus should sour people on costly jobs programs: "The case must be made as to why you want to borrow money we don't have. And how do you make that case given the track record of the failed stimulus bill?"

Discussions about job creation are playing out in both the House and Senate.

On the Senate side, Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Byron L. Dorgan (D-N.D.) are heading the effort and have presided over multiple meetings with colleagues.

The House hopes to pass a jobs bill in December. Senate aides say it is doubtful the measure would be enacted until a healthcare bill is passed, perhaps by the time Obama delivers his State of the Union address in January.

A growing priority

Administration aides are talking to lawmakers about the bill and cooperating with the project. One imperative from the White House is that the bill be purged of wasteful pork projects.

"Folks who have their jobs face a level of insecurity that is unacceptably high from the administration's perspective," said the White House official. "So the president has tasked us to generate ideas and work with Congress on future job-growth measures."

Having been preoccupied with passing a healthcare bill, the White House is eager to demonstrate it is sensitive to the economic hardship Americans face. To that end, the White House will host a jobs summit Thursday. And the next day, Obama will travel to Allentown, Pa. -- the first stop in a kind of economic "listening tour."

Polling shows that the healthcare overhaul is not as important to Americans as an economic recovery that yields jobs. With a midterm election next year, Democrats in control of the White House and Congress can't afford to look out of touch.

A Senate Democratic aide, speaking on condition of anonymity, said, "Democrats have to address the No. 1 concern of their constituents -- and that is, by a long shot, jobs.

"We want to show we get it -- that we're responsible and in tune."

peter.nicholas@latimes.com

Jim Puzzanghera in the Washington bureau contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2009, The Los Angeles Times

________________________ ________________________ _____

Doubling down on failure.  Nice.  


Straw Man

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2009, 11:54:02 AM »
have all the funds even been dispursed yet?

why didn't all those tax breaks create new jobs yet?


Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2009, 11:59:32 AM »
have all the funds even been dispursed yet?

why didn't all those tax breaks create new jobs yet?



Straw - the "tax breaks" were a joke.  $13 a week is nothing.  All that is, is a 24 pack of Bud at walmart.     

The bill was not set up for job growth.  Most of the money has gone to prop up existing state programs etc. 

This whole thing was nothing more than a pork bill with no coherent plan as far as real private sector jobs go. 

Companies are not hiring, and wont until the govt signals that the massive tax hikes that are looming, wont be enacted.  I said it back in February before they passed this mess, and will say it next February when UE gots to 10.5%. 

 

nicky.smth

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2009, 12:03:42 PM »
Straw - the "tax breaks" were a joke.  $13 a week is nothing.  All that is, is a 24 pack of Bud at walmart.    

The bill was not set up for job growth.  Most of the money has gone to prop up existing state programs etc.  

This whole thing was nothing more than a pork bill with no coherent plan as far as real private sector jobs go.  

Companies are not hiring, and wont until the govt signals that the massive tax hikes that are looming, wont be enacted.  I said it back in February before they passed this mess, and will say it next February when UE gots to 10.5%.  

  

For you and I 13 dollars a week may be a joke..Other American's that are struggling to feed there family would rather have that 13 dollars. 13 dollars buys lots of rice and milk

You have no compassion for people that are struggling...Which is sad..

Straw Man

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2009, 12:06:49 PM »
Straw - the "tax breaks" were a joke.  $13 a week is nothing.  All that is, is a 24 pack of Bud at walmart.     

The bill was not set up for job growth.  Most of the money has gone to prop up existing state programs etc. 

This whole thing was nothing more than a pork bill with no coherent plan as far as real private sector jobs go. 

Companies are not hiring, and wont until the govt signals that the massive tax hikes that are looming, wont be enacted.  I said it back in February before they passed this mess, and will say it next February when UE gots to 10.5%.   

do you ever have any links to facts to back up your statements or do we always have to just take your word for everything.

btw - I was one of the people on this site posting stuff by Krugeman saying the Stim Bill wasn't nearly BIG eough.

Weren't you against the whole thing to begin with .

Isn't your plan just doing nothing and "waiting out" the massive unemployment , bankruptcies, foreclosures etc..?

Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2009, 12:09:27 PM »
do you ever have any links to facts to back up your statements or do we always have to just take your word for everything.

btw - I was one of the people on this site posting stuff by Krugeman saying the Stim Bill wasn't nearly BIG eough.

Weren't you against the whole thing to begin with .

Isn't your plan just doing nothing and "waiting out" the massive unemployment , bankruptcies, foreclosures etc..?

Maybe you are on to something Straw.  Yes I am more of the Schiff/Faber school of thought, however, that being said, Krugman may be right to the extent that the bill itself that was passed was not a good bill and simply not geared to job growth.  They simply spent more and sprinkled it all over the place, which really didnt do anything.

The infrastructure part of it is only 5%! 




Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2009, 12:13:12 PM »
he's a phony...If you were one of his investment clients..You wouldn't be to happy. He's he was correct predicting the financial crisis..However, he still lost his clients money..Lots of money...

Have you followed his videos?  He explained this at length.  If you are a client now, I am sure you are loving him since he said to get into gold a long time ago. 

tonymctones

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2009, 12:14:38 PM »
have all the funds even been dispursed yet?

why didn't all those tax breaks create new jobs yet?


not to my knowledge...

the tax breaks are going to be negated by the tax increases being proposed you see straw if you add 2 but also subtract 2 then you get what you started with... ;)

what happened to all those shovel ready projects?

if all the money hasnt been dispersed yet then why even talk about a 2nd stimulus?

Grape Ape

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2009, 12:16:48 PM »
For you and I 13 dollars a week may be a joke..Other American's that are struggling to feed there family would rather have that 13 dollars. 13 dollars buys lots of rice and milk

You have no compassion for people that are struggling...Which is sad..

And you post on a political forum yet can never understand the point people are making.

Yes it buys more milk and rice.  But it doesn't induce companies to hire more, which is what it's supposed to do.
Y

Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2009, 12:17:52 PM »
not to my knowledge...

the tax breaks are going to be negated by the tax increases being proposed you see straw if you add 2 but also subtract 2 then you get what you started with... ;)

what happened to all those shovel ready projects?

if all the money hasnt been dispersed yet then why even talk about a 2nd stimulus?

Because they know the money still left to be spent will not have the economic impact that they promised as States are going to have to lay people off next year due to massive budget deficits.   

 

Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2009, 12:19:36 PM »
And you post on a political forum yet can never understand the point people are making.

Yes it buys more milk and rice.  But it doesn't induce companies to hire more, which is what it's supposed to do.


Additionally, the $13.00 has evaporated into the higher prices of gasoline at the pump.  We are up to $3 a gallon again in NYC. 

nicky.smth

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2009, 12:42:52 PM »
Have you followed his videos?  He explained this at length.  If you are a client now, I am sure you are loving him since he said to get into gold a long time ago. 

he's managed portfolios performed terribly in 2008...



Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2009, 12:44:06 PM »
he's managed portfolios performed terribly in 2008...




Again, you did not answer the question.  Did you listen to his explanation on his website? 

Al Doggity

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2009, 01:03:55 PM »
www.lat.com


Doubling down on failure.  Nice.  



Yesterday you posted an article by Arianna Huffington in which she advocated this, and you said you agreed with her.  ???

Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2009, 01:08:06 PM »
Yesterday you posted an article by Arianna Huffington in which she advocated this, and you said you agreed with her.  ???

No.  I agreed with her claim that the jobs situation will be Obama's Katrina.  I dont not believe in another massive spending bill.  We are tapped out as it is on spending. 

Al Doggity

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2009, 01:21:22 PM »
No.  I agreed with her claim that the jobs situation will be Obama's Katrina.  I dont not believe in another massive spending bill.  We are tapped out as it is on spending. 

I was razzing you, even though I did think it was ridiculous that you posted an article solely because it had something negative to say about Obama while ignoring the central points the article tried to make.

You believe that the job situation will be his Katrina yet you also think he should have just sat back and rode it out? Let the chips fall where they may?

Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2009, 01:26:30 PM »
I was razzing you, even though I did think it was ridiculous that you posted an article solely because it had something negative to say about Obama while ignoring the central points the article tried to make.

You believe that the job situation will be his Katrina yet you also think he should have just sat back and rode it out? Let the chips fall where they may?

No, I dont think he should have sat back.  He should have told everyone that the current economic situation was such that his domestic agenda was and is too costly at this time and that we need to curtail costs, taxes, and regulations that are making this country less competitve globablly. 

Al Doggity

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2009, 01:37:15 PM »
Oh, I guess I misunderstood all of your Peter Schiff posts. The ones where you agreed  with and advocated his position that the gov't should have a hands off approach to the economic crisis.

Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2009, 01:39:51 PM »
Oh, I guess I misunderstood all of your Peter Schiff posts. The ones where you agreed  with and advocated his position that the gov't should have a hands off approach to the economic crisis.

Hands off does not mean not trying to remove barriers that are exacerbating the situation. 

I just think Obama also basically lied and told people what they wanted to hear which is not helping either.


Al Doggity

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2009, 01:53:08 PM »
Hands off does not mean not trying to remove barriers that are exacerbating the situation. 

I just think Obama also basically lied and told people what they wanted to hear which is not helping either.



What barriers and lies are you speaking of?

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2009, 01:55:23 PM »
Schiff/Faber school of thought?   ::)  Europac is doing terrible.  I think it's down like 40% on the year.  Schiff is right about a lot but my god none of what he says is original or groundbreaking.  He's an austrian economics.  what do you expect him to say?  I'm of a this or that school of thought..........people need to learn to think for themselves.  What Schiff DOESN'T talk about is what it's important.  The issue is MUCH bigger than finance.  It's about global power and the new world order. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2009, 01:57:54 PM »
What barriers and lies are you speaking of?

The barriers to job growth such as the cost of hiring employees, law suits, SEQRA costs, Enviro lawsuits preventing mgf plants, etc etc.

The lies Obama told were that he created the impression that the Stimulus bill would keep UE under 8% and that a recovery was or is already underway.  He created unrealistic expectations and now people are getting restless because they buy into the garbage coming from the govt.  

He also is not telling the truth about the monetary policy being pursued.      


Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2009, 02:00:02 PM »
Schiff/Faber school of thought?   ::)  Europac is doing terrible.  I think it's down like 40% on the year.  Schiff is right about a lot but my god none of what he says is original or groundbreaking.  He's an austrian economics.  what do you expect him to say?  I'm of a this or that school of thought..........people need to learn to think for themselves.  What Schiff DOESN'T talk about is what it's important.  The issue is MUCH bigger than finance.  It's about global power and the new world order. 

Of course it is, but that really is not his schtick.  I really dont think someone running for U.S. Senate is going to talk like Alex Jones during the campaign.  The media would would destroy a person for that.     

Straw Man

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2009, 02:09:21 PM »
No, I dont think he should have sat back.  He should have told everyone that the current economic situation was such that his domestic agenda was and is too costly at this time and that we need to curtail costs, taxes, and regulations that are making this country less competitve globablly. 

curtail costs (aka spending), cut taxes and regulations?

tax cuts and lack of regulation (and oversight of existing regulation) is exactly what got us into this mess

Your "solutions" would have created massive unemployment, business failure, etc.. and  would have only enriched the corporations who have been fucking us over for the last 20 years.

the only part I agree with would be cuttig defense spending (aka - end these 2 pointless wars) but Obama can't do that and we both know it

If you truly wanted to make this country more competitive globally you would support a public option for health care or even better single payer

Soul Crusher

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Re: As Stim Bill No. 1 Fails - Dems preparing massive new Stimulus Bill
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2009, 02:16:22 PM »
curtail costs (aka spending), cut taxes and regulations?

tax cuts and lack of regulation (and oversight of existing regulation) is exactly what got us into this mess

Your "solutions" would have created massive unemployment, business failure, etc.. and  would have only enriched the corporations who have been fucking us over for the last 20 years.

the only part I agree with would be cuttig defense spending (aka - end these 2 pointless wars) but Obama can't do that and we both know it

If you truly wanted to make this country more competitive globally you would support a public option for health care or even better single payer


I agree with you on the defense spending.  Its out of control. 

When I talk about costs, Im talking about the costs ans regus for small businesses to start up, not the mega corps and all that nonsense. 

As far as health care goes, my heart says yes, but my head says no.  The reason I say that is because I dont believe the govt is capable of doing it properly.  That is not to say the current situation is acceptable, but that simply destroying what we have now might be evenw orse. 

As far as UE, its going through the roof anyway, but we will srtill have the massive debt to deal with for generations.