Author Topic: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan  (Read 1276 times)

Soul Crusher

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Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« on: November 30, 2009, 06:07:27 AM »
Michael MooreOscar and Emmy-winning director
An Open Letter To President Obama On Afghanistan
Huffpost


________________________ _______________________


Dear President Obama,

Do you really want to be the new "war president"? If you go to West Point tomorrow night (Tuesday, 8pm) and announce that you are increasing, rather than withdrawing, the troops in Afghanistan, you are the new war president. Pure and simple. And with that you will do the worst possible thing you could do -- destroy the hopes and dreams so many millions have placed in you. With just one speech tomorrow night you will turn a multitude of young people who were the backbone of your campaign into disillusioned cynics. You will teach them what they've always heard is true -- that all politicians are alike. I simply can't believe you're about to do what they say you are going to do. Please say it isn't so.

It is not your job to do what the generals tell you to do. We are a civilian-run government. WE tell the Joint Chiefs what to do, not the other way around. That's the way General Washington insisted it must be. That's what President Truman told General MacArthur when MacArthur wanted to invade China. "You're fired!," said Truman, and that was that. And you should have fired Gen. McChrystal when he went to the press to preempt you, telling the press what YOU had to do. Let me be blunt: We love our kids in the armed services, but we f*#&in' hate these generals, from Westmoreland in Vietnam to, yes, even Colin Powell for lying to the UN with his made-up drawings of WMD (he has since sought redemption).

So now you feel backed into a corner. 30 years ago this past Thursday (Thanksgiving) the Soviet generals had a cool idea -- "Let's invade Afghanistan!" Well, that turned out to be the final nail in the USSR coffin.

There's a reason they don't call Afghanistan the "Garden State" (though they probably should, seeing how the corrupt President Karzai, whom we back, has his brother in the heroin trade raising poppies). Afghanistan's nickname is the "Graveyard of Empires." If you don't believe it, give the British a call. I'd have you call Genghis Khan but I lost his number. I do have Gorbachev's number though. It's + 41 22 789 1662. I'm sure he could give you an earful about the historic blunder you're about to commit.

With our economic collapse still in full swing and our precious young men and women being sacrificed on the altar of arrogance and greed, the breakdown of this great civilization we call America will head, full throttle, into oblivion if you become the "war president." Empires never think the end is near, until the end is here. Empires think that more evil will force the heathens to toe the line -- and yet it never works. The heathens usually tear them to shreds.

Choose carefully, President Obama. You of all people know that it doesn't have to be this way. You still have a few hours to listen to your heart, and your own clear thinking. You know that nothing good can come from sending more troops halfway around the world to a place neither you nor they understand, to achieve an objective that neither you nor they understand, in a country that does not want us there. You can feel it in your bones.

I know you know that there are LESS than a hundred al-Qaeda left in Afghanistan! A hundred thousand troops trying to crush a hundred guys living in caves? Are you serious? Have you drunk Bush's Kool-Aid? I refuse to believe it.

Your potential decision to expand the war (while saying that you're doing it so you can "end the war") will do more to set your legacy in stone than any of the great things you've said and done in your first year. One more throwing a bone from you to the Republicans and the coalition of the hopeful and the hopeless may be gone -- and this nation will be back in the hands of the haters quicker than you can shout "tea bag!"

Choose carefully, Mr. President. Your corporate backers are going to abandon you as soon as it is clear you are a one-term president and that the nation will be safely back in the hands of the usual idiots who do their bidding. That could be Wednesday morning.

We the people still love you. We the people still have a sliver of hope. But we the people can't take it anymore. We can't take your caving in, over and over, when we elected you by a big, wide margin of millions to get in there and get the job done. What part of "landslide victory" don't you understand?

Don't be deceived into thinking that sending a few more troops into Afghanistan will make a difference, or earn you the respect of the haters. They will not stop until this country is torn asunder and every last dollar is extracted from the poor and soon-to-be poor. You could send a million troops over there and the crazy Right still wouldn't be happy. You would still be the victim of their incessant venom on hate radio and television because no matter what you do, you can't change the one thing about yourself that sends them over the edge.

The haters were not the ones who elected you, and they can't be won over by abandoning the rest of us.

President Obama, it's time to come home. Ask your neighbors in Chicago and the parents of the young men and women doing the fighting and dying if they want more billions and more troops sent to Afghanistan. Do you think they will say, "No, we don't need health care, we don't need jobs, we don't need homes. You go on ahead, Mr. President, and send our wealth and our sons and daughters overseas, 'cause we don't need them, either."

What would Martin Luther King, Jr. do? What would your grandmother do? Not send more poor people to kill other poor people who pose no threat to them, that's what they'd do. Not spend billions and trillions to wage war while American children are sleeping on the streets and standing in bread lines.

All of us that voted and prayed for you and cried the night of your victory have endured an Orwellian hell of eight years of crimes committed in our name: torture, rendition, suspension of the bill of rights, invading nations who had not attacked us, blowing up neighborhoods that Saddam "might" be in (but never was), slaughtering wedding parties in Afghanistan. We watched as hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians were slaughtered and tens of thousands of our brave young men and women were killed, maimed, or endured mental anguish -- the full terror of which we scarcely know.

When we elected you we didn't expect miracles. We didn't even expect much change. But we expected some. We thought you would stop the madness. Stop the killing. Stop the insane idea that men with guns can reorganize a nation that doesn't even function as a nation and never, ever has.

Stop, stop, stop! For the sake of the lives of young Americans and Afghan civilians, stop. For the sake of your presidency, hope, and the future of our nation, stop. For God's sake, stop.

Tonight we still have hope.

Tomorrow, we shall see. The ball is in your court. You DON'T have to do this. You can be a profile in courage. You can be your mother's son.

We're counting on you.

Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com



________________________ ______________

Oh man, get out the popcorn. 

Kazan

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2009, 07:53:57 AM »
I wonder where he gets his intel from, less than 100 Al Queda left. I mean shit if he can get that kind of intel he should be able to pin point where Bin Laden is ::)

Moore seems to be under the delusion that he is important, perhaps he should stick to making propaganda films
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2009, 07:54:49 AM »
I scan Huff Post and DU and they are really pissed off. 

Fury

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2009, 07:59:05 AM »
I wonder where he gets his intel from, less than 100 Al Queda left. I mean shit if he can get that kind of intel he should be able to pin point where Bin Laden is ::)

Moore seems to be under the delusion that he is important, perhaps he should stick to making propaganda films

Each new movie he's made has done worse in the box office than its predecessor. Hopefully this douche's time in the spotlight is up.

I'd love to see this asshole's intel. Less than 100 left? HAHAHAHAHA.  ::)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2009, 08:00:17 AM »
Each new movie he's made has done worse in the box office than its predecessor. Hopefully this douche's time in the spotlight is up.

Perhaps, but Moore has a lot of influence with the left wing base.  if the base does not show up in 2010, the Dems will lose a ton of seats. 

Fury

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2009, 08:04:08 AM »
Perhaps, but Moore has a lot of influence with the left wing base.  if the base does not show up in 2010, the Dems will lose a ton of seats. 

Well, Capitalism: A Love Story only grossed $14 million at the box office despite a lot of marketing while Fahrenheit 9/11 made $114 million.

Al Doggity

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2009, 08:05:32 AM »
Perhaps, but Moore has a lot of influence with the left wing base.  if the base does not show up in 2010, the Dems will lose a ton of seats. 

Do you really believe that? He's really more of a paper tiger for the right.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2009, 08:05:35 AM »
Well, Capitalism: A Love Story only grossed $14 million at the box office despite a lot of marketing while Fahrenheit 9/11 made $114 million.

Ouch.  I wonder if he lost money on that.  

Al Doggity

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2009, 08:06:51 AM »
Ouch.  I wonder if he lost money on that.  

It was a documentary. He made an incredibly popular documentary during the most political time in recent memory. Comparing the success of that film to his others doesn't really make sense. How many other docus do you know of that grossed 14mil?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009, 08:07:36 AM »
It was a documentary. He made an incredibly popular documentary during the most political time in recent memory. Comparing the success of that film to his others doesn't really make sense. How many other docus do you know of that grossed 14mil?

Not many, but he also had a lot of advertising, etc that adds to the costs. 

Fury

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2009, 08:11:20 AM »
It was a documentary. He made an incredibly popular documentary during the most political time in recent memory. Comparing the success of that film to his others doesn't really make sense. How many other docus do you know of that grossed 14mil?

Well, with the amount of marketing and advertising of it, the fact that it only grossed $14 million might be an indicator of his waning influence. More and more people aren't interested in hearing what this douche has to say.


Al Doggity

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 08:19:41 AM »
Not many, but he also had a lot of advertising, etc that adds to the costs. 

There's no way anything close to even half the film's gross was spent on promotion.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 08:22:01 AM »
There's no way anything close to even half the film's gross was spent on promotion.



Not just that, but insurance, costs, distribution, ect etc. 

240 is Back

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2009, 08:24:10 AM »
33,

Do you agree with Moore on Afghanistan?

Al Doggity

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2009, 08:33:21 AM »
Not just that, but insurance, costs, distribution, ect etc. 

Insurance for a documentary would be pretty low. Depending on certain circumstances, he wouldn't even need it . He probably sold the film  and didn't incur any distribution costs, but his distributor definitely keeps in mind that he's working with a documentary. Fahrenheit 9/11 was released on a staggered schedule. Besides, most low budget films pick up most of their money from ancillary rights- i.e. television, dvd,etc So at the very least, these films did better than covered cost in theaters and made money later

Soul Crusher

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2009, 08:56:08 AM »
Insurance for a documentary would be pretty low. Depending on certain circumstances, he wouldn't even need it . He probably sold the film  and didn't incur any distribution costs, but his distributor definitely keeps in mind that he's working with a documentary. Fahrenheit 9/11 was released on a staggered schedule. Besides, most low budget films pick up most of their money from ancillary rights- i.e. television, dvd,etc So at the very least, these films did better than covered cost in theaters and made money later


Good post Al..

As for 240 - I dont know what to think about Afghanistan anymore.  On the one hand we are broke and have been there for 8 years and still dont know the mission really is, on the second hand, no president wants to preside over a failed war.   

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2009, 09:02:59 AM »
"As for 240 - I dont know what to think about Afghanistan anymore.  On the one hand we are broke and have been there for 8 years and still dont know the mission really is, on the second hand, no president wants to preside over a failed war. "

Obama inherited it.  We aren't going to win doing what Bush did.  He could have just left, but you would have had GOP pitbulls screaming about how he is a coward who surrenders.

So he has to keep fighting this senseless war. 

You would hope both parties would come together, agree to call it a win, keep the bases, and let the afghan forces take over.  nope.  They'll politicize it.  Obama can get over healthcare and cra/trade... but losing a war?  Americans would listen to FOX talk about how he wussed out, and they'd agree.

Sad that our troops are dying because both parties can't just agree to end this damn war.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2009, 09:04:41 AM »
"As for 240 - I dont know what to think about Afghanistan anymore.  On the one hand we are broke and have been there for 8 years and still dont know the mission really is, on the second hand, no president wants to preside over a failed war. "

Obama inherited it.  We aren't going to win doing what Bush did.  He could have just left, but you would have had GOP pitbulls screaming about how he is a coward who surrenders.

So he has to keep fighting this senseless war. 

You would hope both parties would come together, agree to call it a win, keep the bases, and let the afghan forces take over.  nope.  They'll politicize it.  Obama can get over healthcare and cra/trade... but losing a war?  Americans would listen to FOX talk about how he wussed out, and they'd agree.

Sad that our troops are dying because both parties can't just agree to end this damn war.

240 - Obama campaigned saying this was the good war and that he was going to deal with this.  He said the opposite for Iraq.  So Afhganistan is on him now since he campaigned saying this was the righteous war. 

240 is Back

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2009, 09:09:17 AM »
doesnt mean he has to push the shitty war for 8 years.

means he can give it 1 surge this spring, kill as many bad guys as possible, call it a win, and get out next summer.

But, we can bet $1 that Hannity and Rush won't call him a losing war president.  ;)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2009, 09:10:41 AM »
doesnt mean he has to push the shitty war for 8 years.

means he can give it 1 surge this spring, kill as many bad guys as possible, call it a win, and get out next summer.

But, we can bet $1 that Hannity and Rush won't call him a losing war president.  ;)

I have a buddy who was over there and he said there is no way to win this.  The country is not even like Iraq.  He told me some seriously bad stuff. 

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2009, 09:15:26 AM »
We didn't need to spend 8 years in Afghanistan and quiz our soldiers as to the possibility of winning this war...all we had to do is ask the Russians...the English...and well, the Russians again...

“Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.”
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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2009, 09:15:33 AM »
agreee 10000% from everything i've heard about afghanistan.  please jsut isn't civilized enough to win in and govern.  it's time to hit the bad guys one last time, then leave.

but I think the Right will label him a loser.  they'd rather he sustain the war, then they can criticize him for not winning it in 4 or 8 years (even though thye were mum when bush did it in 2 wars).

politics, baby.

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2009, 09:17:31 AM »
Maher also keeps making this definitive point about there being little/no AQ left.

Assuming this is so, how come they never give credit to who is responsible for that?
Y

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2009, 09:19:51 AM »
Maher also keeps making this definitive point about there being little/no AQ left.

Assuming this is so, how come they never give credit to who is responsible for that?

The place is completely backwards.  My buddy was telling me that people there literally have never read a newspaper, seen a tv, nothing. 

rockyfortune

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Re: Michael Moore's open letter to Obama on Afghanistan
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AM »
i didn't vote for obama..or mccain..but if he got on tv and said..i'm pulling the fuck out...i'd say you just earned my vote...time to cut our losses now...and concentrate on getting our country back on track...bring our guys home and end this shit...
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