Author Topic: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...  (Read 165738 times)

Hulkster

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #600 on: February 15, 2010, 09:37:52 AM »
Quote
  However, to claim that everyone who prefers Dorian is some how wrong just shows your ignorance. 


everyone? you mean all three LOL

hell, even dorian's best friend and love interest, Peter McGough feels no one has had a better physique onstage than Ronnie at the AC..

 :-*
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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #601 on: February 15, 2010, 09:53:35 AM »
everyone? you mean all three LOL

hell, even dorian's best friend and love interest, Peter McGough feels no one has had a better physique onstage than Ronnie at the AC..

 :-*
Well he must be wrong, correct, because you claim 99 Ronnie blows away a 2001 AC Ronnie . . . and you clearly know way more than those who have seen them both in person numerous times.  ::)

Hulkster

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #602 on: February 15, 2010, 10:16:36 AM »
yes, he is wrong. anyone can see that:

the massive gut at the AC is the kicker.

not to mention the smaller size, less fullness and equal hardness and definition.

but everyone remembers his AC win as a standout for two reasons:

1. it was the first time a Mr. O had competed at the AC while being reigning Mr. O

and

2. his competition was sub par. Oleg Zhur? come on..

what you don't get is that humans make errors for reasons like this.

the camera and video tape do not.

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #603 on: February 15, 2010, 11:06:24 AM »
yes, he is wrong. anyone can see that:

the massive gut at the AC is the kicker.

not to mention the smaller size, less fullness and equal hardness and definition.

but everyone remembers his AC win as a standout for two reasons:

1. it was the first time a Mr. O had competed at the AC while being reigning Mr. O

and

2. his competition was sub par. Oleg Zhur? come on..

what you don't get is that humans make errors for reasons like this.

the camera and video tape do not.


I think he looks drier in 2001, but fuller in 99.  Probably better in 99 imo because of his stomach distention in 01.  What about 98 Mr. O vs. 01 Arnold?

Hulkster

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #604 on: February 15, 2010, 11:45:53 AM »
Quote
What about 98 Mr. O vs. 01 Arnold?
again, probably 98, because the gut was pretty prominent at the AC.

the first mention of ronnie's gut (where everyone took notice of it) was at the 2000 Olympia.

hell, Kevin kept pointing at it.

from then on, no matter what it was always there.

yes, it was there in 98/99 also, if you look and catch shots of ronnie exhaling. but not nearly as bad.

same with dorian - no on really took notice of his gut until 94, although it was still there in 93. but again, not as bad as it was in all 94 and post years.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #605 on: February 15, 2010, 11:54:52 AM »
>:( "no fair! no fair! no fair! no fair!" >:(

LMAO

It's no fair you don't know how to present an argument? you're ' proof ' is popular opinion? and none of those quotes trump Ronnie himself , oh that's right when he says Dorian would beat him your response is " well you ever hear the guy? he's not to smart " the irony of you questioning his intelligence

Keep your popular opinion it's all you have.  ;)


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #606 on: February 15, 2010, 12:05:35 PM »
This is ridiculous. The way Ronnie worded it he meant each champion would beat everyone is their respective heydays. Anyone who thinks he really meant Arnold and Haney would also beat him knows nothing of bodybuilding or human speech. To observe he was being respectful of these great past champions is the most basic of inferences, so quit making stuff up, you embarrass yourselves. Yates famously said in MD he doesn't think he could beat peak Ronnie. Do you think he meant it?

Also why do supposedly darkened screencaps of '99 get endlessly pooh-poohed, yet the Yates side is allowed to endlessly post a one-off shot from the front, in a studio, IN BLACK AND WHITE as definitive evidence of somekind. Not only is it not definitive, but it's not even admissable. Can we see his lower body from the back? Have we any indication that in colour and from the back he'd be the same condition as he ever was on stage? I'm guessing at some 20lb above contest weight that's completely impossible, so do yourselves a favour and stop childishly clinging to something totally meaningless.

Yates was great, but Craig Titus and King Kamali look like world beaters in their own kitchens with the right lighting in their best pose. Then they get onstage and the stage lights change everything. Yates knew this, so why don't you guys?

Quote
This is ridiculous. The way Ronnie worded it he meant each champion would beat everyone is their respective heydays. Anyone who thinks he really meant Arnold and Haney would also beat him knows nothing of bodybuilding or human speech. To observe he was being respectful of these great past champions is the most basic of inferences, so quit making stuff up, you embarrass yourselves. Yates famously said in MD he doesn't think he could beat peak Ronnie. Do you think he meant it?

I never made shit up he never committed to an answer in he eluded to one but took the high road by not saying it outright and in the end that quotes doesn't mean a God damn thing because the other two he clearly says Dorian would beat him , definitively no eluding , no hinting around , so either way you're fucked. Yates said in MD " I guess I don't know " so heed your own advice and quit making stuff up

Quote
Also why do supposedly darkened screencaps of '99 get endlessly pooh-poohed, yet the Yates side is allowed to endlessly post a one-off shot from the front, in a studio, IN BLACK AND WHITE as definitive evidence of somekind. Not only is it not definitive, but it's not even admissable. Can we see his lower body from the back? Have we any indication that in colour and from the back he'd be the same condition as he ever was on stage? I'm guessing at some 20lb above contest weight that's completely impossible, so do yourselves a favour and stop childishly clinging to something totally meaningless.

supposedly darkened? how about proven manipulated ( not all of them mind you ) how about all the morphed picture Hulkster has been using for eons? you're bitching about people using pictures at only one side don't be a hypocrite and forget that pic we have a whole series when he was 269 pounds and you can clearly see how great he his overall , no wait you can't see with your head stuck so far up Ronnie's bottom.

Quote
Yates was great, but Craig Titus and King Kamali look like world beaters in their own kitchens with the right lighting in their best pose. Then they get onstage and the stage lights change everything. Yates knew this, so why don't you guys?

Oh yeah Dorian only looked good in black & white shots never onstage compared to the best of the best  ::)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #607 on: February 15, 2010, 12:08:56 PM »
What? All you do is post quotes.

The difference is my quotes aren't subjective and I'll always admit that if they are they aren't proof.

I don't rely on popular opinion as proof

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #608 on: February 15, 2010, 12:11:49 PM »
by themselves? probably  not.

but take that quote and corroborate it with real life visuals to support it and guess what?

you have proof.

talk is sometimes bullshit (see McGough, Peter and his dorian comments lol). until you have corroborating evidence to back it up.

then you have as strong of an argument as it is possible to get..

learn this.



Hahahahah ' real life visuals ' like your oversharpened pictures and the morphed ones? is that what you mean? were you there in ' real life ' ? NO you have no concept of real life and the people who do ALL contradict your bullshit claims.

Ronnie Coleman trumps you all get over it crybabies  ;)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #609 on: February 15, 2010, 12:18:06 PM »
yes, he is wrong. anyone can see that:

the massive gut at the AC is the kicker.

not to mention the smaller size, less fullness and equal hardness and definition.

but everyone remembers his AC win as a standout for two reasons:

1. it was the first time a Mr. O had competed at the AC while being reigning Mr. O

and

2. his competition was sub par. Oleg Zhur? come on..

what you don't get is that humans make errors for reasons like this.

the camera and video tape do not.



Hahahahah he's wrong and you're right and you were NEVER at any contest hahahahahah I fucking love your stupidity , and to back up your claim what do your provide as evidence? ' everyone can see that ' and ' everyone remembers 2001 because " you always presume to speak for everyone but can never back up your claims with anyone . more appeals to the masses , you Neo and most of the other Ronnie nutt-huggers are complete morons it's no wonder why you think Ronnie is so far ahead of Dorian you've been staring at the photoshopped pics to long.

' real life visuals ' despite the fact NONE of you were there in ' real life ' fucking idiots the whole lot of you lol


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #610 on: February 15, 2010, 12:23:56 PM »
everyone? you mean all three LOL

hell, even dorian's best friend and love interest, Peter McGough feels no one has had a better physique onstage than Ronnie at the AC..

 :-*

Except Dorian at 269 pounds , opppsss forgot that one didn't you? no you didn't you're just like the weasel Neo trying to be deceptive and omit part of the quotes but hey I don't blame you idiots you have to do everything under the sun to try and prove Ronnie was better , including using appeals to the masses , made up quotes , morphed pictures , over-sharpened pictures and personal attacks , yes you idiots present a well thought out objective and honest argument based on the judging criteria  LMFAO

I own ALL of you which is why you're in another Dorian Yates thread trying to prove with popular opinion Ronnie was better.


BuffD

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #611 on: February 15, 2010, 04:12:48 PM »
too bad dorian should have lost in 1994, 1997 and arguably even 1996.. :-*

winning in a more competitive lineup doesn't really do much for you if you never should have won in the first place..

Cormier looks better in that shot than Ronnie despite being smaller. 

Relentless

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #612 on: February 15, 2010, 04:15:14 PM »
Except Dorian at 269 pounds , opppsss forgot that one didn't you? no you didn't you're just like the weasel Neo trying to be deceptive and omit part of the quotes but hey I don't blame you idiots you have to do everything under the sun to try and prove Ronnie was better , including using appeals to the masses , made up quotes , morphed pictures , over-sharpened pictures and personal attacks , yes you idiots present a well thought out objective and honest argument based on the judging criteria  LMFAO

I own ALL of you which is why you're in another Dorian Yates thread trying to prove with popular opinion Ronnie was better.



For all of the time you spend talking about Dorian, I hope you've at least been able to meet the guy.  You truly LOVE Dorian Yates.  Is he aware of your crush?  He should be made aware of your affections, ND.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #613 on: February 15, 2010, 04:17:27 PM »
For all of the time you spend talking about Dorian, I hope you've at least been able to meet the guy.  You truly LOVE Dorian Yates.  Is he aware of your crush?  He should be made aware of your affections, ND.

Hahahahah never met him , never seen him , never emailed him , don't want to look like him , don't train like him , never bought his supplements  ;)


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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #614 on: February 15, 2010, 04:23:35 PM »
Hahahahah never met him , never seen him , never emailed him , don't want to look like him , don't train like him , never bought his supplements  ;)



Do you feel he is the best bodybuilder of all time?

Hulkster

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #615 on: February 15, 2010, 04:27:10 PM »
Quote
how about all the morphed picture Hulkster has been using for eons?

what morphed pics are you talking about that I supposedly post all the time?

please enlighten all of us.

  ::)

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Hulkster

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #616 on: February 15, 2010, 04:29:00 PM »
Cormier looks better in that shot than Ronnie despite being smaller. 

how so? ronnie has better quads, wider/thicker lats with the same sized waist =better taper, better chest etc. etc.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #617 on: February 15, 2010, 04:29:08 PM »
Do you feel he is the best bodybuilder of all time?

That depends on the context of the question , would he beat anyone ? yes , the criteria clearly favors his physique , in general NO I think Arnold is the best bodybuilder of all time so many reasons , physique , being a trailblazer , promoter , actor , the guy sent the trend for everyone to follow , I think Steve Reeves is right there was well and statistically Ronnie is the greatest bodybuilder of all time , most career wins and Olympia wins.

NeoSeminole

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #618 on: February 15, 2010, 06:52:20 PM »
ND, do you ever get tired of defending Dorian? I'm impressed by your stamina and devotion to your man.

BuffD

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #619 on: February 15, 2010, 07:25:51 PM »
how so? ronnie has better quads, wider/thicker lats with the same sized waist =better taper, better chest etc. etc.

Cormier has better quad seperation (Ronnie's are just bigger) Cormier's waist is smaller and his abs are WAY better.  Cormier's chest is better.  Overall Cormier's physique flows much better. Ofcourse from the back things could be different but I'm only going by that particular pic.  Ronnie does have wider thicker lats.

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #620 on: February 16, 2010, 01:33:53 AM »
ND, do you ever get tired of defending Dorian? I'm impressed by your stamina and devotion to your man.
Neo do you ever get tired of getting demoralized? I spend less time ' defending ' Dorian and more time correcting you idiots on how the game is played and I never get tired of making you and Hulkster look like the compete morons you are.  ;)

NeoSeminole

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #621 on: February 16, 2010, 07:12:31 AM »
ND, I asked you first. And pre-emptive strike before you say "ladies first."

Ladies first ;)

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #622 on: February 16, 2010, 07:18:12 AM »
I never made shit up he never committed to an answer in he eluded to one but took the high road by not saying it outright and in the end that quotes doesn't mean a God damn thing because the other two he clearly says Dorian would beat him , definitively no eluding , no hinting around , so either way you're fucked. Yates said in MD " I guess I don't know " so heed your own advice and quit making stuff up

supposedly darkened? how about proven manipulated ( not all of them mind you ) how about all the morphed picture Hulkster has been using for eons? you're bitching about people using pictures at only one side don't be a hypocrite and forget that pic we have a whole series when he was 269 pounds and you can clearly see how great he his overall , no wait you can't see with your head stuck so far up Ronnie's bottom.

Oh yeah Dorian only looked good in black & white shots never onstage compared to the best of the best  ::)

B/W pics have undergone a manipulation of sorts. Deal with that. Unless you are a sheepdog I will not acknowledge one-off 280lb '95 pics of Dorian with way more contrasted and shadowy lighting than you'd ever find on an Olympia stage. Maybe he was the greatest ever at 269lb in '93 but unfortunately for him, and in the least gay way possible, no judges ever got to observe his rear lower conditioning from the back under stage lighting. You must understand that makes a difference? How many guys are in shape in the dressing room but not onstage? You never address this so I don't expect an answer.

Ronnie said Arnold would beat him, does that make it true? Does it mean a damn thing? If you'd be so kind as to post the full Dorian Q & A regarding Ronnie it seemed a lot clearer than you are making it sound.

I would never be so bold as to say Dorian wasn't insanely inspirational with amazing condition and looked great in colour also etc, but when we get into the nitpicking finer points of who is the greatest ever, then I think it's important we don't use single pictures from a photoshoot from the front relatively far out from a show. Otherwise Victor Richards or Paul Dillet or someone should really win this debate. You and I both know there is more to it than this one shot, and that bringing it the day of the show is what makes or breaks competitors. Dorian was 12lb lighter onstage, and noticeably less full, although obviously looked dominant in that line-up, since he was so ahead of his time in so may ways.

I don't endorse morphed Ronnie pics, although I'm not sure which ones are 'morphed', certainly they haven't featured prominently in this debate, although I have seen them pop up. Perhaps the 'darkened' ones have, but like the screencaps from Markus Ruhl's legendary NOC win, it's not like someone has deliberately changed them, just as many screencaps appear faded or overly bright. Certainly the dramatic enhancing of contrast and darkening which creates a black and white pic is no less of a manipulation. My argument has always been that 2003 Ronnie is the one who would, for better or for worse, defeat 257lb Dorian by virtue of being noticeably more massive everywhere + more ripped hams and glutes.

Dorian was great, and it's a shame one has to remotely point fault in a legend to take part in this debate but don't you think it a little odd that the foundation of your argument lies in pics much more manipulated than any '99 screencaps? You can attempt to counter this with Kevin Horton quotes from photoshoots, then counter Neo Seminole's impressive list of quotes by saying quotes mean nothing. Whatever does it for you, but I'm gonna operate in the grounded reality of colour contest pics and colour video if it's okay with you, since online this is the closest we can get to reality.

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #623 on: February 16, 2010, 09:19:52 AM »
This thread is quickly failing. Quit arguing semantics and back to posting the same pics repeatedley and saying "See, look the anyone with eyes can see xxxx is better" while posting no evidence of why.

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Re: Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...
« Reply #624 on: February 16, 2010, 09:31:18 AM »
I havn't read a single post in this thread but by scrolling from the top down to the bottom, I bet I can guess what its about

same shit, different thread