Shawn Ray on Dorian Yates...

[delta9mda]

notice how well conditioned shawn was that you can see his glute striations from the side (no homo)

dorian was not to that level of dryness that year.

as much as the nuthuggers will hate to admit it, shawn had better conditioning that year.

and it shows in every single shot.

shawn had better conditioning than ever, for shawn.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Balance and proportion is a single part of the criteria isn't it?Dorian didn't have the best proportions.He had the second best back in the history combined with a pair of lagging arms.His quads were also lagging for the era(both in size and details)His pecs were not very good as well.

Sure all of that is true which is exactly why he won so much 

Dorian didn't have the best proportions but he had the best combo of all the criteria.

Now his arms are lagging  his forearms , triceps and bicep were all lacking , he had the best back in the history of the sport  , yes everything was lacking so it should have been very easy to beat him yet no one came close

spare me the politics plea because I've heard that to many times

[NarcissisticDeity]

And his gut alone destroyed his proportions imo...

yeah and his entire arms were lacking too in your opinion 

[Tarantula157]

Kevin's calves were ' flat ' all years 

Other than calves and back Kevin was better everywhere(thighs,hamstrings,delts,triceps,biceps and pecs).

[NarcissisticDeity]

Other than calves and back Kevin was better everywhere(thighs,hamstrings,delts,triceps,biceps and pecs).

Sure he was which is exactly why he beat Dorian ........................ ........zero times.

you can't try and tally up parts to see who is better NOT how it works.

Kevin had long torso , short legs , sub-par calves , hit-or-miss conditioning ! I mean I can continue , he lags behind Dorian in density & dryness , muscular bulk and overall completeness ..you must consider everything not a few things.

[Tarantula157]

yeah and his entire arms were lacking too in your opinion 

Yes,with the exeption of the forearms which overpowered his upperarms and in 97 were the same size as his upperarms.
And having calves bigger than your upperarms isn't the best example for the best proportions either.

[Royal Lion]

No way KL was better than Dorian.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Yes,with the exeption of the forearms which overpowered his upperarms and in 97 were the same size as his upperarms.
And having calves bigger than your upperarms isn't the best example for the best proportions either.

You measured his arms and his calves?  really what number did you come up with?

[Royal Lion]

In this video Dorian's superiority over KL is obvious...it wasn't even close.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5049884837576382067#

I don't think KL wins a single pose vs. Dorian here.

[Tarantula157]

Sure he was which is exactly why he beat Dorian ........................ ........zero times.

you can't try and tally up parts to see who is better NOT how it works.

Kevin had long torso , short legs , sub-par calves , hit-or-miss conditioning ! I mean I can continue , he lags behind Dorian in density & dryness , muscular bulk and overall completeness ..you must consider everything not a few things.

We do not discuss who won,but who should have and in particular in 94.Sometimes the best doesn't win in BB and we have many examples for that-81,82,90,94,97,2007,probably even more...
Kevin's conditioning was hit in 94 and he had better muscular bulk and fulness than Dorian that year.
Dorian was holding water,he wasn't dry in 94.

[Tarantula157]

No way KL was better than Dorian.

Posting pics from 95 doesn't prove anything about 94!

[Tarantula157]

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

We do not discuss who won,but who should have and in particular in 94.Sometimes the best doesn't win in BB and we have many examples for that-81,82,90,94,97,2007,probably even more...
Kevin's conditioning was hit in 94 and he had better muscular bulk and fulness than Dorian that year.
Dorian was holding water,he wasn't dry in 94.

Troll away , gimmick 

[Royal Lion]

Other than calves and back Kevin was better everywhere(thighs,hamstrings,delts,triceps,biceps and pecs).

Here is the quote I posted the pics in response to....I don't see any mention of 94.  Funny you fall back to 94 after being disproved about your blanket statement of KL being "better everywhere" besides calves and back.  I'll agree that 94 (especially the prejuding) was not Dorian's best showing.  However, his conditioning was at least equal to Ray's and still better than KL's which is why he won.  

Btw...this 94 rdb shot of Yates is one of the freakiest I have seen.  

[Tarantula157]

...

[Royal Lion]

Those are some great shots of 94 - thanks for posting them.  I am a huge KL fan, and yes it's close, but Dorian just has on overall thickness from every angle that KL doesn't.  Dorian's color was way off in 94 for some reason.

Do you think KL was better than Ray in 94??

[Tarantula157]

Those are some great shots of 94 - thanks for posting them.  I am a huge KL fan, and yes it's close, but Dorian just has on overall thickness from every angle that KL doesn't.  Dorian's color was way off in 94 for some reason.

Do you think KL was better than Ray in 94??

IMO it could have gone either way between Shawn and Kevin for 1st,then Dorian in 3rd.

[Royal Lion]

That's fair - they certainly pushed Dorian that year.    Here are some more pics I found of 94.

Also, here is a great MM comparison from 95, KL wins, but both look awesome.

[Tarantula157]

That's fair - they certainly pushed Dorian that year.    Here are some more pics I found of 94.

Also, here is a great MM comparison from 95, KL wins, but both look awesome.

If Dorian competed with his 93 or 95 shape in 94,Kevin and Shawn wouldn't stand a chance,but he didn't.Best Dorian versus best Shawn or Kevin-Dorian wins.But 94 Dorian versus 94 Ray and 94 Levrone-Shawn and Kevin were better imo.

[EL Mariachi]

hulkster puts up a good struggle but gets owned by nd pretty bad lately.

[Royal Lion]

If Dorian competed with his 93 or 95 shape in 94,Kevin and Shawn wouldn't stand a chance,but he didn't.Best Dorian versus best Shawn or Kevin-Dorian wins.But 94 Dorian versus 94 Ray and 94 Levrone-Shawn and Kevin were better imo.

Good argument.  I can't say "you are wrong" because all of this is subjective and your opinion is credible.  94 was damn close and Dorian won by a razor's edge.  I wish I could find a prejudging video of the callouts.

[James28]

Not sure what else is left to say. History is what it is. It cannot be rewritten. We can debate '97 if you will where 'some' of your points 'might' be in the realms of validity, but all other years there is no doubt on the superiority of Dorian Yates. Most of you naysayers cling to quotes made by bitter journalists and competitors who in their hearts of hearts knew that their best years were spent chasing Yates and their best was never enough. They did what was left to do for them and just spew bile (see Shawn for example). Yates changed the sport forever and to the day he is still imitated, but never rivalled. That is really all that is left to say.

Now, let's see those selective pics again. You know, the ones of a relaxed Yates used to prove ... I don't know ... some strange point.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Not sure what else is left to say. History is what it is. It cannot be rewritten. We can debate '97 if you will where 'some' of your points 'might' be in the realms of validity, but all other years there is no doubt on the superiority of Dorian Yates. Most of you naysayers cling to quotes made by bitter journalists and competitors who in their hearts of hearts knew that their best years were spent chasing Yates and their best was never enough. They did what was left to do for them and just spew bile (see Shawn for example). Yates changed the sport forever and to the day he is still imitated, but never rivalled. That is really all that is left to say.

Now, let's see those selective pics again. You know, the ones of a relaxed Yates used to prove ... I don't know ... some strange point.

Another dead accurate post.

Let's see another pose of a fully flexed Kevin & Shawn and an unflexed Dorian with the commentary about how he's losing a pose he's not hitting yet 

[NeoSeminole]

Not sure what else is left to say. History is what it is. It cannot be rewritten. We can debate '97 if you will where 'some' of your points 'might' be in the realms of validity, but all other years there is no doubt on the superiority of Dorian Yates. Most of you naysayers cling to quotes made by bitter journalists and competitors who in their hearts of hearts knew that their best years were spent chasing Yates and their best was never enough. They did what was left to do for them and just spew bile (see Shawn for example). Yates changed the sport forever and to the day he is still imitated, but never rivalled. That is really all that is left to say.

[NarcissisticDeity]

ah well, I'm off to the gym. I'll let ND and Mr.1derful continue posting in my absence. Who knows... maybe I'll compete in the next Mr. Getbig. I've put on a lot of size and worked on my weaknesses since Mr. Getbig 2. I would encourage ND to enter since he claims he's bigger than me but I know he'll just come up with an excuse to pussy out