Of course it's becoming annoying to you because you're being corrected. And wow according to Nasser 
according to Nasser all pros use synthol yet he never did , he's the last person you wanna quote and let's say it's true it brings us back to the high & low scores are tossed out so he could have been in ' fourth ' and still finished first again read a book or two
You don't even know this criteria no matter what you call the ' original ' criteria and more stupidity on your behalf the criteria that is used now is NOT the same criteria used since the beginning , the criteria used to include dental examines onstage ! in Reeves day if a contest was deemed to close to call they had both contestants do gymnastics , you don't know the criteria now of before so stop embarrassing yourself trying to act knowledgeable
Dorian's calves weren't in proportion with his quads says you and we already established what you know , nothing. his proportions weren't perfect but eons better than Shawn Ray and he didn't lack separations of the Vastus in fact he tore that muscle in 1994 so it was obscured if you're claiming his quads looked like Franco's did in 1981 you're even more stupid then I thought
Hahahahaha yeah keep the better structure and balance & proportion to modeling competitions ( which FYI bodybuilding contests are ) this is the part where you're willing to overlooks Shawn's numerous flaws out of preference , he doesn't have to live up to the standards others do because his small high calves are ' genetic ' biased anyone? Shawn doesn't have to meet the criteria of clavicle width because it's genetic or height give me a break.
close to perfection? hahahahahaha more biased delusion Shawn's physique is not even close to perfect he's lacking way to much and just because you're willing to overlook doesn't mean the judges were .
Let me explain to you again how contests are judged. All rounds are physique rounds this means in every single pose all of the judging criteria is assessed at once , including muscular bulk , balance & proportion , density & dryness , posing & presentation , this applies to all rounds including the muscularity round , symmetry round and ( back then ) posing rounds
So while Shawn may meet part(s) of the criteria better than Dorian he doesn't meet the all better which is exactly how contests are judged. who satisfies the ALL of the criteria better
You can say how can Shawn Ray lose the symmetry round to Dorian Yates when clearly Shawn is more ' symmetrical ' I'll explain exactly how and why he lost. Symmetry is a broad and misleading term in this sport and means a lot of things to a lot of people. in includes having a small waist , small joints , great taper , small hips which is part of the reason Flex Wheeler is known as the Sultan of Symmetry despite not having the greatest balance and structure.
That is where the other part of the criteria comes into play , such as height ( height counts in a contest of the genetically elite ) torso length ( if one has a short torso , long torso or a medium one ) arm length ( in relation to the torso ) leg length ( compared to the torso and to others , Shawn has short legs , Ronnie has long ones ) then there is proportion between the muscles ( Shawn has short calves that insert high , Dorian has low ones ) muscle length , clavicle width ( narrow like Shawn and super wide like Wolf )
When people say Shawn has better symmetry than Dorian technically they're right if their speaking on that context alone but not right when all things are assessed. Directly compared to Dorian it's obvious Shawn has smaller waist & hips and smaller joints ( relatively speaking of course ) but he's also shorter ( height plays a role ) he also has short legs , a long torso and high insertions in his calves , along with narrow clavicles , so while he may meet part(s) of the symmetry better than Dorian he loses ground when everything is applied because All rounds are physique rounds
In the symmetry round the judges look who meets the criteria better in muscular bulk along with symmetry/balance & proportion. So while Shawn has a smaller waist & hips and smaller joints , he's down on balance & proportion and now muscular bulk. Now muscular bulk doesn't mean much if it's bulk for the sake of bulk. The judges like conditioned muscular bulk which is exactly why Shawn could beat guys who carried much more muscular bulk than him. And muscular bulk is a relative term and an absolute one as well.
Shawn was like a mini-mass monster he carried 205 pounds on a frame around 5'7" roughly the same weight as Lee Labrada who weighed around 190 pounds in contest shape. So if it were Shawn vs Lee , Shawn would have the advantage in muscular bulk because both were usually dead on the money in terms of conditioning and Shawn weighed more and looked physically bigger. However Dorian was 3" taller and in 1994 weighed 262 pounds and was hard as nails. There is a very big difference ( no pun ) on 262 pounds and 205 pounds even on a relative scale. So ontop of having better balance & proportion , Dorian also has a clear advantage in terms of muscular bulk and remember everything is judged at once , so just because Shawn meets part(s) of symmetry better he's losing on all counts so far
Which leads us to density & dryness , Shawn was usually very well conditioned and very dense & dry for his size , it's easy to be dense & dry when you're 205 pounds and a WHOLE other story when you're 262 pounds. The heavier one becomes the harder it is to retain that density which is the absence of intramuscular fat so what you're left with is just pure muscle. There is a huge difference between two guys who are both the same height and weight and one who is dense and one who's not. Which is why the combo of density & size are highly prized in competitive bodybyuilding.
So Shawn was usually very good with density & dryness he wasn't better than Dorian in this area. Perfect example he tried to compete heavier ( 215 pounds ) at one contest and his conditioning suffered for it. Dorian wins not only muscular bulk and balance & proportion now he wins density & dryness ( remember Shawn may meet part(s) of the criteria better but he loses when ALL of it is applied )
Now we can move on to posing & presentation. A lot of people always scratched their heads wondering how Dorian could win the symmetry round and well as the posing rounds. Now you have your answer All rounds are physique rounds Shawn is a very good poser and very good at presenting his physique to it's best advantage but so is Dorian and in any posing round or symmetry round the judges are looking at muscular bulk , density & dryness , balance & proportion so Dorian wins any round and any pose simply because he satisfies ALL of the criteria better than Shawn and any of his contemporaries
So when you type Shawn should have beat Dorian in 1994 it really means you're ignorant on how contests are judged and/or you simply prefer the way Shawn looks over Dorian .
According to how contests are judged Dorian clearly beat Shawn in 1994.
The competition where Grimeck beat Reeves was the NABBA mr.Universe 1948.Thay had a tie on the scoresheets,so the promoter decided they have to do gymnastics etc.,but that contest was an exeption,that wasn't a routine to decide the contests,plus it wasn't even an IFBB contest.
Where did I said Dorian's quads looked like Franco's?Read my post again!I said that since franko no mr.O winner had lack of separation on the quads(understand Dickerson,Bannout and Haney had better thigh separation than Dorian as well as every winner after Dorian!)
The actual procedure of judging a contest and the criteria about what qualities the winners physique should include are 2 different things.Throughout the hitory IFBB changed the first many times incl.the number of judges involved,the mandatory poses included,the number of rounds etc.,etc...Yet the criteria about how the winners physique should look like remained the same until Dorian's era when the winner can have a distended stomach in a combination with torn musclegroups and still be considered as the "best built man in the world".
Shawn don't have short legs and long torso(lee priest and paco bautista have!)Shawn has the same torso and leg length as the majority of people who are 5'7''.His bone structure is very similar to that of Dexter Jackson.His legs may seem short for you of course,because his quads(in a contrast with Dorian's 94 version)were fully developed.And Ray indeed was very close to perfection,doesn't matter whether you like that fact or not.Why do you think the judges placed him in the top 5 for 12 consecutive years?It certainly wasn't because he was the biggest or they liked his personality.It's because he has great shape and structure and complete development.
When you studied how the contests are judged,you probably also discovered that how you look onstage is of much greater importance than how much is your weight.That's why Frank Zane used to beat competitors with much more muscular bulk than his(even when they were in a good condition).And that's how a 4'10'',145 lbs.Flavio Bachianini was twice runner up at the masters Olympia,beating legends like Robby Robinson,Sonny Schmidt etc in the process.
Dorian was heavier than Shawn,but he also was taller with thicker and heavier bone structure.For his frame Shawn was as you said "a little mass monster"at 205-210.
When you insist that Dorian had better balance and proportions than Shawn,please tell which year you are reffering to,because Dorian had different balance every single year!Comparing Dorian of 93 with Dorian of 97 is like comparing 2 different bodybuilders.How can someone have different balance&proportions every single year and they still be considered as the best?Dorian of 97 had much smaller arms and bigger legs(though not better)than Dorian of 93,therefore his balance&proportions were not the same.In 94 his thighs and arms(due to the injuries) were lagging in comparison to his 93 version as well as in comparison to the guys standing next to him.Shawn Ray was the one with best balance in 94.He also was the most conditioned(he was hard,dry,dense,he had full muscle bellies and great muscle separation and details.I short he was complete!
When Francis Benfatto placed 6th at the 2006 Australian GP,the judges told him that he could have placed higher if it wasn't for his torn pec.They penalized him for having a torn muscle.They also should penalize Dorian for that,but they didn't.They didn't penalize him for having a distended stomach as well.Size is important,but not at the exclusion of shape,detail,symmetry and completness.
