THIS..is a gym!

[Mr Nobody]

Ive found that pec deck supersetted with dips (specifically v dips), give a pump like no other.

pre-exhaustion = worked for me as well..pecs fail before the triceps, which mean greater stimilation to the pecs

[DroppingPlates]

i didnt wade through the 7 pages of responses to check, but did anyone notice that there isnt a single mirror in the place?

great equipment, no mirrors, no fuss...now THAT's a GYM!!!

Mirrors are useful for beginners to learn proper lifting techniques, but once you become a experienced lifter they become distracting. I allways turn my back to the mirror when I do squats.

[Coach is Back!]

Disco stu....no mirrors in my gym either

[calfzilla]

How did this thread make it to 8 pages?   

[Van_Bilderass]

Who is the beast doin 185 on the smith machine?

Dude is beast, seriously. Big and strong. Started juicing at 15 I hear. Just like JME.  

[Flexb]

and?

and what? U need ketchup on those fries too? tool

[Vince B]

On a functional scale 1-10, 98% of machines are about 2. It doesn't make much sense to train on just a sagittal plain since the body moves in multiple directions. Make sense?

It is always refreshing to hear from a true expert. Wait, this is Getbig where everyone is an expert.

What a load of crap many say here. No doubt they say stuff to support what they sell. What functional scale? Let us stick to hypertrophy and forget about the other fitness components.

Some of you guys should sit down and try to design some gym equipment. You wouldn't make statements like this if you did.

I favour machines over free weights by a wide margin. If musclemen didn't use them I would put all my free weights in a barge and sink it off the coast. Would do more good there and result in a quieter gym!

[Coach is Back!]

It is always refreshing to hear from a true expert. Wait, this is Getbig where everyone is an expert.

What a load of crap many say here. No doubt they say stuff to support what they sell. What functional scale? Let us stick to hypertrophy and forget about the other fitness components.

Some of you guys should sit down and try to design some gym equipment. You wouldn't make statements like this if you did.

I favour machines over free weights by a wide margin. If musclemen didn't use them I would put all my free weights in a barge and sink it off the coast. Would do more good there and result in a quieter gym!

Because you don't know anything outside of bodybuilding training Vince, is that why you want to stick to hypertrophy only? You think hypertrophy is the only component to training?

Hey Vince, wtf do you think people did before all these fancy gimmick machines were around? Sorry Vince, that hypothetical scale and I stick by it 100%.  Have you ever trained hard in your life? It's funny when I was in Golds today, I was watching some pros train today and was thinking the intensity the way these guys train is a joke, it was like they were just going through the motions, few sets here, rest a few minutes, 10 reps and check themselves in the mirror, geez!!

[BB]

I saw a pic of a place they furnished, a college gym or something. It was like 10 powerracks with platforms on one side of the room and another 10 on the other side. Enough to make me jizz in my pants.  

Maybe the University of Pittsburgh- http://elitefts.com/news-room/Photos/pitt2.jpg ?

Here's a few other weight rooms that were put together nicely-

[dyslexic]

How did this thread make it to 8 pages?   

Someone started bashing machines over free weights....


go figure.

[G.O.A.T.]

Dude is beast, seriously. Big and strong. Started juicing at 15 I hear. Just like JME.  

If that pic in the middle is not photshopped, that is one BIG MOFO, Holy Shit!

[Vince B]

I thought this was a bodybuilding forum to get big, right? I know what the gym industry has become and I also see a lot of bullshit out there. Look at the ads on TV. Yeah, twist your way to a trim waist. Wait, why twist when we can do Zumba! The industry has always been an embarrassment intellectually and that is true probably more so today. Way too many people involved who think they know something and charge others for that crap.

I have an opinion about machines that differs from you. Live with it. Most muscleheads believe more crap than they would even comprehend. When the experts keep a lot of that nonsense going then it is sad for everyone. Not that my posts are going to change the thinking here one iota. That is what happens when people hang around gyms and take courses.

[Coach is Back!]

I thought this was a bodybuilding forum to get big, right? I know what the gym industry has become and I also see a lot of bullshit out there. Look at the ads on TV. Yeah, twist your way to a trim waist. Wait, why twist when we can do Zumba! The industry has always been an embarrassment intellectually and that is true probably more so today. Way too many people involved who think they know something and charge others for that crap.

I have an opinion about machines that differs from you. Live with it. Most muscleheads believe more crap than they would even comprehend. When the experts keep a lot of that nonsense going then it is sad for everyone. Not that my posts are going to change the thinking here one iota. That is what happens when people hang around gyms and take courses.

The bullshit is the TV gimmicks and the commercial "fitness" gym filled with machines that are gimmicks in themselves.

[Van_Bilderass]

I thought this was a bodybuilding forum to get big, right? I know what the gym industry has become and I also see a lot of bullshit out there. Look at the ads on TV. Yeah, twist your way to a trim waist. Wait, why twist when we can do Zumba! The industry has always been an embarrassment intellectually and that is true probably more so today. Way too many people involved who think they know something and charge others for that crap.

I have an opinion about machines that differs from you. Live with it. Most muscleheads believe more crap than they would even comprehend. When the experts keep a lot of that nonsense going then it is sad for everyone. Not that my posts are going to change the thinking here one iota. That is what happens when people hang around gyms and take courses.

You write a lot of shit without saying much. You think machines are great but you never elaborate in a way that explains anything.

I guess there's a connection between DOMS and machines, right? Of course, you don't know if DOMS is good or bad, just that it's somehow related to muscle growth. And I'm sure machines fit in in there somewhere.

[Vince B]

Yeah, Bilderass, that is right in a nutshell. Quite simple when you think about it. Wait, musclemen don't have to think they just take pills.

As least you have some of the right vocabulary. JME is already beyond help.

[dyslexic]

"Most muscleheads believe more crap than they would even comprehend"


I'm having a hard time with this statement. How does one believe in something if they don't comprehend it? They may comprehend it with a somewhat limited perception, but I don't think this statement makes clear sense.


Ambiguous. Random. Call it what you will. It doesn't even 'sound' good.


Believe: to suppose or assume; understand

Comprehend: to understand


Are we being redundant, or am I missing something?

[Vince B]

Not really. Anyone who has been around the Irongame for a long time realizes that a lot of beliefs are held like people hold religious convictions. Opinions and attitudes spread in various ways and they guide behaviour, beliefs, theories and so on. We believe lots of things we don't comprehend. Eg., a muscle needs to recover to grow. That, in my opinion, is false, but most gym goers believe it. The actual physical processes that occur in muscles are very complicated. The discipline of exercise science is exceedingly difficult, and most here, including myself, don't have the vocabulary to comprehend it. That doesn't stop us from formulating theories based on our experience. However, that usually isn't very solid for evidence that the theories work and are true.

If what I am saying is true is it any wonder that there is so much disagreement in bodybuilding? Go to any muscle forum and there are still debates about training.

[Coach is Back!]

Hey Vince, I've been in the "Iron game" for almost 35 years. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about!

[Vince B]

No doubt you are an expert. Being a world authority requires far more knowledge. Seems to me we will have to agree to disagree. I don't hold theories as being true unless I can't falsify them. Even then they could still be mistaken. Far too many claim expert status without the accompanying study and qualifications.

[Vince B]

Hey Vince, I've been in the "Iron game" for almost 35 years. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about!

By the way, on the 16th of January I will have 51 years experience. Not that having more experience equals better knowledge. However, I have studied a fair bit over my career. I am still learning. I doubt anyone knows everything in this business.

[pellius]

You write a lot of shit without saying much. You think machines are great but you never elaborate in a way that explains anything.

I guess there's a connection between DOMS and machines, right? Of course, you don't know if DOMS is good or bad, just that it's somehow related to muscle growth. And I'm sure machines fit in in there somewhere.

Free weights are very useful and I believe essential but they are limited because they provide their full resistance in an up and down fashion being entirely dependent on gravity. Your joints operate in a rotary fashion. Therefore a properly design machine can provide resistance throughout the full range of motion imn a rotary fashion, say, like the Nautilus pullover or leg curl machine. A great machine will also have variable resistance to compensate for the different strength levels at various positions in a movement. For example, when doing a squat you are weakest in the full squat position but get stronger as you push upward. Therefore you can only use as much weight that you can move in the weakest position. A good leg press will have the resistance increase as you push out. A. Jones tried to achieve that variable resistance with all his equipment using a cam and others have tried to follow (copy) his example. Whether he was successful is subject for debate. Of course, in the case of the squat using chains is superior than just squatting with the loaded barbell because the resistance increases as you raise the weight. This is assuming you are not a power lifter where learning the skill in the traditional squat is paramount.

[dyslexic]

You probably meant "don't have the vocabulary to explain it"


I suppose you also like to correlate the science of bodybuilding with philosophy. It can be stated that our minds have a limited capacity of understanding on almost any topic, yet we have to communicate in order to find closure or resolution.


If you feel that something cannot be comprehended fully or explained correctly with our limited vocabulary, why bother discussing? If it is just to let everyone know that you feel our capacity of understanding is too limited to have a debate, you might want to search for resolution by creating your own vocabulary and teaching it, or possibly learning to better communicate.


Personally, I feel a discussion like this, in this forum is a complete waste of time and counterproductive to finding the answers one might be searching for.


On that note, I do believe that our muscles need to "recover" in order to grow. Whether or not I choose to discuss how the Central Nervous System is an integral part of that "recovery" process would be dependent on how interested one was in understanding the process, not whether or not I could explain it correctly.


Is it O.K to discuss something here that has to do with muscle growth without breaking out the Physiology and Biology majors? If you agree that most "muscleheads" have to little understanding, maybe you should turn it down a notch instead of choosing condescension as your messenger.


You will never elaborate in a way that explains anything to anyone because you are too busy arguing with yourself... and your limited understanding. Why do I picture a dog chasing its tail?

[dr.chimps]

Not really. Anyone who has been around the Irongame for a long time realizes that a lot of beliefs are held like people hold religious convictions. Opinions and attitudes spread in various ways and they guide behaviour, beliefs, theories and so on. We believe lots of things we don't comprehend. Eg., a muscle needs to recover to grow. That, in my opinion, is false, but most gym goers believe it. The actual physical processes that occur in muscles are very complicated. The discipline of exercise science is exceedingly difficult, and most here, including myself, don't have the vocabulary to comprehend it. That doesn't stop us from formulating theories based on our experience. However, that usually isn't very solid for evidence that the theories work and are true.

If what I am saying is true is it any wonder that there is so much disagreement in bodybuilding? Go to any muscle forum and there are still debates about training.

Translation: Lifters are dogmatic.

[Palpatine Q]

By the way, on the 16th of January I will have 51 years experience. Not that having more experience equals better knowledge. However, I have studied a fair bit over my career. I am still learning. I doubt anyone knows everything in this business.

and IMO that's the whole problem....this shit is simple.

Heavy= heavy

Trying hard=trying hard

300 lbs=300 lbs

Your muscles don't know the difference between a machine with a square weight attached to a cable, or a round weight on the end of a bar.

they just know contraction and failure.

it's ALL good if you are doing it right, if you are a pussy and have shit genetics, nothing will work.

[Mr Nobody]

and IMO that's the whole problem....this shit is simple.

Heavy= heavy

Trying hard=trying hard

300 lbs=300 lbs

Your muscles don't know the difference between a machine with a square weight attached to a cable, or a round weight on the end of a bar.

they just know contraction and failure.

it's ALL good if you are doing it right, if you are a pussy and have shit genetics, nothing will work.

X2