Author Topic: Deadlift debate  (Read 7094 times)

vic86

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Deadlift debate
« on: January 04, 2010, 12:10:32 PM »
Conventional style vs Romanian style

i prefer conventional style with 1 sec rest at bottom, doing it with slow manner.

which style you guys follow?

nolotil

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2010, 12:33:43 PM »
it depend, romanian deadlift =more for hamstring,, regular deadlift= hamstring too but more of overall growth.

for hamstring i do variatiaon of 'straigt' leg deadlift (not same as romanian) and romanian deadlift. i dont have legs straight too protect my knees but i dont take bar so far down that my back rounds.

when i do reg deadlift do 75% deadlifts from blocks ,.it takes away much of initial leg drive you have in normal deadlift from the floor.

many people mix up the words romanian vs straigh leg deadlift so often discussion becomes complicated. i dont like old school version where you take bar down to the feet as it casues rounding of the back.

Yev33

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2010, 09:58:09 PM »
doing convential style dead-lifts slowly is a big mistake especially when you get into the heavier weights. I never intentionally slow down deadlifts, i control the weight on the way down but thats a big difference from slowing them down. SLD and romanian deadlifts I do slow down though  because I feel them in my hamstrings better, I basically focus on having the plates make as little noise as possible as they make contact with the floor, the concentric portion of the lift I do explosively though.

jpm101

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2010, 08:45:52 AM »
For me anyway, the SLDL and or Romanian DL gives me more all around athletic performance, strength and size. When doing them, always prefer doing forms of regular DL's in a trap/shrug Olympic style bar. More natural position , when lifting, when the hands are alone the sides, rather in front of the body. Takes leaning too far forward (a common cause of lower back problems when DL'ing) and hitting the knees (usually the reason people lean too far forward..avoiding shins or knees) mostly out of the movement.

With SLDL's I never go lower that the height of the '45's. Really no reason to. With the Romanian DL, which requires the lower back to be kept fixed and flat, you can not go much lower than a little below a 90 degree angle. RD's are one of the best hams exercises (when done right) there is.

Don't quite see any major difference to doing any form of DL'ing slow, fast or whatever. Though , if into sports, you may want to do them with quickness, like Olympic lifters do. Quickness training can adapt very well with power training. When reaching the max training poundage for DL's (or any other major lift) the weight will be going up at a slower & steady pace anyway. Good luck.
F

benchmstr

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2010, 01:21:02 PM »
i do neither anymore......i stopped about a year ago......but i always felt conventional did more for me....

bench

splank

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2010, 05:02:02 PM »
i do neither anymore......i stopped about a year ago......but i always felt conventional did more for me....

bench

Why did you stop? Whats your back workout consist of now. I like to do deads; however, I often wondered if dropping them from my back workout would cause any noticeable difference. 

benchmstr

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2010, 08:01:56 PM »
Why did you stop? Whats your back workout consist of now. I like to do deads; however, I often wondered if dropping them from my back workout would cause any noticeable difference. 
my back looked stupid....i stopped doing them to get rid of the thickness, guess what?.....i still have all the thicknes+ a better v-tapper.....i now think deadlift arent good for anything except hamstrings, and making you better at deadlifts...

bench

benchmstr

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2010, 08:05:09 PM »
Why did you stop? Whats your back workout consist of now. I like to do deads; however, I often wondered if dropping them from my back workout would cause any noticeable difference. 
...as far as what i do now..

i just got back from doing back....this is what i did...

hammerstrength high row....3 sets....i dont count reps...

hammerstrength reverse high row...2 sets....dont know reps...

low cable rows......1 set....the stack....for as many as i could...

i was taking it easy today.

bench

MP

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2010, 08:39:08 PM »
...i now think deadlift arent good for anything except hamstrings, and making you better at deadlifts...

Entitled to your opinion, but beg to differ. Deadlifting separates "us" from the mere mortals in the gym who play around with weights and get frightened at the thought of even attempting to deadlift 225.

Great full body power generating movement. If I were to give up a "heavy" lift as I got older, this would be the last one.

benchmstr

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2010, 08:45:30 PM »
Entitled to your opinion, but beg to differ. Deadlifting separates "us" from the mere mortals in the gym who play around with weights and get frightened at the thought of even attempting to deadlift 225.

Great full body power generating movement. If I were to give up a "heavy" lift as I got older, this would be the last one.

oh brother....another guy trying to write a animal pak add.....

 ::)

bench

MP

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2010, 08:50:12 PM »
Keep pounding out those hammer strength and cable rows, buddy.  :)

benchmstr

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2010, 08:53:12 PM »
Keep pounding out those hammer strength and cable rows, buddy.  :)
i will.....just like the guy in your avatar......who also didn't do deadlifts ;)

...and i used to do them...i did them for over 13 years......but i really no longer find them beneficial...

bench

chaos

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2010, 08:53:43 PM »
I believe deads are beneficial for overall back strength/development and I enjoy a good round of deads once a week.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

MP

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2010, 08:58:26 PM »
....just like the guy in your avatar......who also didn't do deadlifts ;)

Directly from Dorian:
Quote
Hi Guys..Thought i would suprise you by replying myself as i had a rare spare moment!
I do deadlift in the manner described to stress the whole back, erectors, traps, lats while minimising the involvement of the legs.This means more muscle stress and less injury risk.I am a bodybuilder not a powerlifter so the weight is more of a tool i use to stress the desired areas.The first third of traditional deadlift move are quads, hams and glutes . I save that for my leg days!
hope this helps clear things up ....DY

Source:
http://www.dorianyates.net/dorian/site/showthread.php?t=817

Yev33

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2010, 09:19:49 PM »
I've always found dead-lifts to add muscle to my whole body, If I was already a 250lb monster with 5% bodyfat like some people on here seem to be, judging by their posts, maybe I would stop doing them. But Im still a pussy so I continue to grind out reps with four plates a side hoping one day I could get to elite level where I won't have to do them anymore  ::)

benchmstr

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2010, 09:24:19 PM »
I've always found dead-lifts to add muscle to my whole body, If I was already a 250lb monster with 5% bodyfat like some people on here seem to be, judging by their posts, maybe I would stop doing them. But Im still a pussy so I continue to grind out reps with four plates a side hoping one day I could get to elite level where I won't have to do them anymore  ::)
aahhhh did somebody get their feeling hurt?......  ;D   

settle down tiger...its just the internet...

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Yev33

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2010, 09:28:46 PM »
hahahaha, im so tired of being a pussy and getting picked on at the playground, just needed to vent  ;D

benchmstr

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2010, 09:32:08 PM »
hahahaha, im so tired of being a pussy and getting picked on at the playground, just needed to vent  ;D
its cool....thats what this place is for ;D

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dyslexic

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2010, 03:17:48 AM »
I built a lot of thick muscle with the conventional Dead when nothing else seemed to work anymore. My best lift from the ground was 555. I then started doing partial racks with ungodly amounts of wheight and then let those transition into deadlift/shrug combos'

I don't do heavy deads anymore. I will do rack partials, extremely heavy rack shrugs (with belt) and SDL's (high-rep) from the floor.

I truly believe that all the years of heavy deads fucked up my lower back. My discs are good, thank goodness, but some of my nerves are shot. I've had my LB X-rayed many times, this is how I know.

I also was a follower of Coans training methods. I know that he blew his back out on deads, I'm pretty sure it was Sumo style. You have to really know WTF you are doing when you go heavy. There is a cadence and a form that must be spot on. IMHO, its a powerlifters move. Argueable and debatable, but basically true.

splank

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2010, 08:04:53 AM »
my back looked stupid....i stopped doing them to get rid of the thickness, guess what?.....i still have all the thicknes+ a better v-tapper.....i now think deadlift arent good for anything except hamstrings, and making you better at deadlifts...

bench

 Although I do feel that the deads help my back overall, I can't help but notice that my waist/obliques tend to get a little thicker while focusing on heavy deads for a period of time. I want to keep them in my workout. Maybe I will just do them as my last exercise and do 2-3 sets of 12-15 @ 225. Just for the shits of it.

 My back workout usually goes something like this:

 3 sets of pull ups, as many as I can each set @ body weight.
 4 sets of 8-12 t-bar rows
 3 sets 8-12 of high pull downs. I change the attachment each week, sometimes a v-bar, sometimes a rope,  sometimes just a straight bar w / close grip.
 deads -  sets and reps depends on how I feel - usually 3-4 sets of 4-8 reps.

 

SamoanIrishman

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2010, 09:31:56 AM »
I used to do heavy DL but found that it ended up making my lower back, shoulders and knees hurt. No I rarely go over 225 for 12-15 reps, 4 sets including warm up set. I do it first as to get a good back pump before going to other heavy movements (pull downs, rows etc..) and I use blocks so as to not round the back which is hard to not do when going 350+ even with a belt on.

It does thicken my waist thus reducing the v-taper as well.

Hulkotron

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2010, 05:00:17 PM »
I find doing regular DLs makes my back way too sore to do squats and SLDLs on my leg day.  Conversely squats and SLDLs make me way too sore to do regular DLs.  Something had to go so it was regular DLs.

I agree with whoever said they aren't 100% necessary for bodybuilding.  A great lift but not a great mass builder imo.

buffbong

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 07:04:39 AM »
 For me deadlifts have always been a great mass builder. I like to start my back routine with them. Although if your going to deadlift every week then their is no way to lift max wieghts. Standard deads for back and stiff for legs. Squating nor deadlifts have made my waist any bigger.

Here is a example of what my workout would look like

 Barbell deadlifts  135-10 225-8  315-8  315-8 
 Pull ups              bw-10   48 added 8 reps  88 added -6
 T-bar row rows   3plates 3x10

jdooly

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2010, 04:07:34 PM »
I personally prefer rack-deads (partial deads) from knee-up.  Takes the legs out of it, and stresses the whole back real well.   Traps and back have grown from these. 

JasonH

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Re: Deadlift debate
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2010, 01:15:01 AM »
I personally prefer rack-deads (partial deads) from knee-up.  Takes the legs out of it, and stresses the whole back real well.   Traps and back have grown from these. 

Yep - I'm the same - no need to go lower than knee level IMO.

I fucked up my back many years ago from doing deadlifts wrong and now I'm suffering as a result - it's one of my least favourite exercises in the gym but I still do them because I do get result from them, I've even found they improve grip strength and forearm size.