Chapter 4 The hell of deltoid by Paco and Kyomu!!!!!!!!!

[Van_Bilderass]

Compering from last year, now I am 81kg and my condition is same as last last years 77kg. So,raughly 4kg in one year.
Decade ago, I was competing with 72kg and looked like this(right guy).
I am harder and bigger.

Where do you expect to land at on competition day? How much did you weigh at your last show? You weren't quite as lean as you could/should have been so I'd guess you'll weigh a bit less this time around?

I think your lean body mass has peaked a long time ago but it's still possible you can weigh more or less on comp day depending on how you prep. A kilo or two in either way. However, it's still going to be in the same approximate range. You'll never weigh 80kg on stage for example without drugs. Unless you don't come in ripped.

[kyomu]

Where do you expect to land at on competition day? How much did you weigh at your last show? You weren't quite as lean as you could/should have been so I'd guess you'll weigh a bit less this time around?

I think your lean body mass has peaked a long time ago but it's still possible you can weigh more or less on comp day depending on how you prep. A kilo or two in either way. However, it's still going to be in the same approximate range. You'll never weigh 80kg on stage for example without drugs. Unless you don't come in ripped.

Of course. You talk only and i do.
And I am not mentaly weak as you assume. Because, on stage, only reality, nothing more nothing less.
If I am not making significant progress, I wont do this hard diet. Its wasting time. Think about it.

Here is the pic of 2008(day after the contest) and 2009(3months after the contest).

[balight]

Light and the lack of tan is bad for you face! You aged 10 years in 1 according to the pics...

But wow, bigger, fuller, maybe even more condition.

[Mr Nobody]

Of course. You talk only and i do.
And I am not mentaly weak as you assume. Because, on stage, only reality, nothing more nothing less.
If I am not making significant progress, I wont do this hard diet. Its wasting time. Think about it.

Here is the pic of 2008(day after the contest) and 2009(3months after the contest).

Thats not you that's Lord Taka. Definate improvement.

[kyomu]

Light and the lack of tan is bad for you face! You aged 10 years in 1 according to the pics...

But wow, bigger, fuller, maybe even more condition.

Thats what i am saying.
Simple, training hard is absolutely nothing sacrifice for me.
But, since i love eating, diet is shit. So if i am not improving, DEFENITELY i wont prepare for the show.

[Julio Ceasar]

You are right and we were thinking about it.
But, Since I feel lots of power and i am progressing, he let me train like this.
His philosophy is "Do it hard as possible and lets take a look at physique every 2-3days. If you are progressing, lets keep on doing it. If not, refrain from it or change the style or nutrition."

Wow, he must have supervision! I think the rest of us would be lucky if they can see the progress once a year...

[Mr Nobody]

Wow, he must have supervision! I think the rest of us would be lucky if they can see the progress once a year...

kymou is a machine maybe like the Terminator movies.

[kyomu]

Wow, he must have supervision! I think the rest of us would be lucky if they can see the progress once a year...

I am really lucky that an IFBB pro supervising my physique often and giving me a comment. Defenitely i am.

[kyomu]

kymou is a machine maybe like the Terminator movies.

MMmm, if i am a cyborg, much easier...

[Van_Bilderass]

Here is the pic of 2008(day after the contest) and 2009(3months after the contest).

Very hard to compare those pics. Different angle, different lighting. I don't think there's much difference as far as lean body mass though.

There's nothing wrong with competing and I'm not hating on you. I'm just saying that there's not going to be any significant muscle gains made at this point. It's just not going to happen, I don't care how strong you are mentally. The body adapts very quickly to any stressor and unless you made some insane strength gains recently you're not growing significantly. Are you much stronger now than ever before?

Even with drugs you reach a plateau very quickly. Something has to change drastically to keep growing. Keep doing the same cycles and you'll stay the same size. The body adapts to anything very very quickly. Some say bodybuilding is a marathon, not a sprint, but gains are always made in sprints - as a response to new stimuli.

[kyomu]

Very hard to compare those pics. Different angle, different lighting. I don't think there's much difference as far as lean body mass though.

There's nothing wrong with competing and I'm not hating on you. I'm just saying that there's not going to be any significant muscle gains made at this point. It's just not going to happen, I don't care how strong you are mentally. The body adapts very quickly to any stressor and unless you made some insane strength gains recently you're not growing significantly. Are you much stronger now than ever before?

Even with drugs you reach a plateau very quickly. Something has to change drastically to keep growing. Keep doing the same cycles and you'll stay the same size. The body adapts to anything very very quickly. Some say bodybuilding is a marathon, not a sprint, but gains are always made in sprints - as a response to new stimuli.

Seriously i say..... You are just trying to defend your theory(Ok, yourself?) and start to say something incredible.
And it is making you a blind helplessly. Unlike many internet warriors, iam living in a real world and i am surrounded by many competitors. And not only Paco.
So, if i make significant imrpove according to my gym mate and other competitors and Paco, I will be on stage. And those people recomend me to be on stage again strongly. So, maybe that is saying that i am not a blind.
During many people talking about natural limit or whatever, I am just training and eating and making progress.
My life is very simple. Just do it. If i am better, i am on stage. If not, i am in a restaurant.
So keep on saying "the limit of...brah bra " and defend your theory forever. Its your life.
I am not denying your theory. But what is that for? If you hit the limit and you dont train hard anymore, just YOU DONT LOVE TRAINING.

[che]

Seriously i say..... You are just trying to defend your theory(Ok, yourself?) and start to say something incredible.
And it is making you a blind helplessly. Unlike many internet warriors, iam living in a real world and i am surrounded by many competitors. And not only Paco.
So, if i make significant imrpove according to my gym mate and other competitors and Paco, I will be on stage. And those people recomend me to be on stage again strongly. So, maybe that is saying that i am not a blind.
During many people talking about natural limit or whatever, I am just training and eating and making progress.
My life is very simple. Just do it. If i am better, i am on stage. If not, i am in a restaurant.
So keep on saying "the limit of...brah bra " and defend your theory forever. Its your life.
I am not denying your theory. But what is that for? If you hit the limit and you dont train hard anymore, just YOU DONT LOVE TRAINING.

 You are going to make the same mistakes you did in your last show, if you listen to Paco.
 cutting water , carb loading.....etc ,  usually don't work for natural bodybuilders.

[nolotil]

Seriously i say..... You are just trying to defend your theory(Ok, yourself?) and start to say something incredible.
And it is making you a blind helplessly. Unlike many internet warriors, iam living in a real world and i am surrounded by many competitors. And not only Paco.
So, if i make significant imrpove according to my gym mate and other competitors and Paco, I will be on stage. And those people recomend me to be on stage again strongly. So, maybe that is saying that i am not a blind.
During many people talking about natural limit or whatever, I am just training and eating and making progress.
My life is very simple. Just do it. If i am better, i am on stage. If not, i am in a restaurant.
So keep on saying "the limit of...brah bra " and defend your theory forever. Its your life.
I am not denying your theory. But what is that for? If you hit the limit and you dont train hard anymore, just YOU DONT LOVE TRAINING.

this attitude is good to some degree but you must also tell the young guys waht is realistic  so they dont fool themselves,, for natural gains will be veyr slow after a few years of decent lifting

limit for true natural at competition shape;

170cm 70kg if empty  

height in cm - 100 = very ripped for competition.........yes you cna sit at height  -95 in  good shape a few weeks out but when you try to loose the last kgs and get empty for a show you will drop to -100

look good on the beach only need to go go height in cm - 90 or 95....compete you gotta go to -100..

[Van_Bilderass]

Seriously i say..... You are just trying to defend your theory(Ok, yourself?) and start to say something incredible.
And it is making you a blind helplessly. Unlike many internet warriors, iam living in a real world and i am surrounded by many competitors. And not only Paco.
So, if i make significant imrpove according to my gym mate and other competitors and Paco, I will be on stage. And those people recomend me to be on stage again strongly. So, maybe that is saying that i am not a blind.
During many people talking about natural limit or whatever, I am just training and eating and making progress.
My life is very simple. Just do it. If i am better, i am on stage. If not, i am in a restaurant.
So keep on saying "the limit of...brah bra " and defend your theory forever. Its your life.
I am not denying your theory. But what is that for? If you hit the limit and you dont train hard anymore, just YOU DONT LOVE TRAINING.

It's not a theory, it's just common sense. You are taking it as an attack when that's not what it is at all.

I love training and can still make small strength gains after all these years. I just know I'm done growing, have been done for a long long time. The only way I will grow is by introducing new stimuli in the form of new drugs or increasing dosages or increasing training loads (which is possible even after many years but it's very slow). The body is an organism that adapts quickly to any stimuli - if you aren't giving it a reason to grow, for example via increasing training loads, why would it grow? And you know strength gains stall after a few years. None of us keep getting stronger every workout, year after year.

[kyomu]

It's not a theory, it's just common sense. You are taking it as an attack when that's not what it is at all.

I love training and can still make small strength gains after all these years. I just know I'm done growing, have been done for a long long time. The only way I will grow is by introducing new stimuli in the form of new drugs or increasing dosages or increasing training loads (which is possible even after many years but it's very slow). The body is an organism that adapts quickly to any stimuli - if you aren't giving it a reason to grow, for example via increasing training loads, why would it grow? And you know strength gains stall after a few years. None of us keep getting stronger every workout, year after year.

Wow. Common sence? Where is the common sence coming from(cming from someones theory)? Oh my gosh... gimme a break.
And now, stop underestimate me. I AM IN BBING SINCE 1988. And you think that i dont know that "common sence" you refer?


In one word. You are just negative and not humble. Because you think that you did all what you can. Thats why you feel the plateu.
To the contrary, i feel that i am always thinking that i can improve my diet ,training, posing and everything. So to speak, i have never done something completely crrect in my life. So, I can improve something.
But since you did everything correct before,you cant improve anymore. Get it?

And "you cant" doesnt mean nobody can.
As i thought, you are just autojustificate yourself.

[balight]

I agree perfectly with Van_Bilderass, but i would like to belive what kyomu say

[kyomu]

this attitude is good to some degree but you must also tell the young guys waht is realistic  so they dont fool themselves,, for natural gains will be veyr slow after a few years of decent lifting

limit for true natural at competition shape;

170cm 70kg if empty  

height in cm - 100 = very ripped for competition.........yes you cna sit at height  -95 in  good shape a few weeks out but when you try to loose the last kgs and get empty for a show you will drop to -100

look good on the beach only need to go go height in cm - 90 or 95....compete you gotta go to -100..

Why you guys are so arrogant? Even you dint try and speak alot.
Why dont you post your pic once?

[nolotil]

It's not a theory, it's just common sense. You are taking it as an attack when that's not what it is at all.

I love training and can still make small strength gains after all these years. I just know I'm done growing, have been done for a long long time. The only way I will grow is by introducing new stimuli in the form of new drugs or increasing dosages or increasing training loads (which is possible even after many years but it's very slow). The body is an organism that adapts quickly to any stimuli - if you aren't giving it a reason to grow, for example via increasing training loads, why would it grow? And you know strength gains stall after a few years. None of us keep getting stronger every workout, year after year.

very good post, what kyomo must do is increase weight lifted via using for example reps cycling during offseason,. during diet he must maintain by lifgint heavy in 6-8 rep range and not go light and superset too much

but if he trained for 20 year and most of it denectly growth is  finito unless go hormone routie,, which he has tried too at some point if you look at his physique

i like kyuomo his good guy but i gotta be honest too,,  

[kyomu]

I agree perfectly with Van_Bilderass, but i would like to belive what kyomu say

According my experience, The gain comes suddenly.
You will gain every month dramaticaly in certain term and after long plateu will come.
In that plateu, you cant gain even 1g of muscle.
Its like stairs.

[kyomu]

very good post, what kyomo must do is increase weight lifted via using for example reps cycling during offseason,. during diet he must maintain by lifgint heavy in 6-8 rep range and not go light and superset too much

but if he trained for 20 year and most of it denectly growth is  finito unless go hormone routie,, which he has tried too at some point if you look at his physique

i like kyuomo his good guy but i gotta be honest too,,  

You guys dont know the altered state of conciousness.
Ok, keep on searching like a blind guy.

[nolotil]

Why you guys are so arrogant? Even you dint try and speak alot.
Why dont you post your pic once?

not arrogant my friend just telling the truth,, i helped and trained many bodybuiler for shows, natural or not natural so i know what i talk about

futher,, i have competed in many shows so not just analyzing from the side lines

[kyomu]

not arrogant my friend just telling the truth,, i helped and trained many bodybuiler for shows, natural or not natural so i know what i talk about

futher,, i have competed in many shows so not just analyzing from the side lines

So you put every individual in same condition and saying that?
Not only genetic,but also our mental state is a very big part of progress(actualy 100% important for me).
Thats why i broke long time plateu and i am making this drastical change now.
And you guys dont know how my progress was stoped until then.

[kyomu]

not arrogant my friend just telling the truth,, i helped and trained many bodybuiler for shows, natural or not natural so i know what i talk about

futher,, i have competed in many shows so not just analyzing from the side lines

Truth?Thats why you are arrogant. It is telling that you have very poor experience. Each body react very different. If its that easy, you dont need to see your physique that frequently to observe your food and training.
Not only me, Paco is always laughing at those gurus like you because of it.
Accroding to him, "Gimme a break, even my physique is changing every year and need different approach. If we talk about different individual...."

[Van_Bilderass]

Thats why i broke long time plateu and i am making this drastical change now.
And you guys dont know how my progress was stoped until then.

I guess we'll see how dramatic the gains were when you step on stage. Too bad you didn't do body composition analysis, or maybe you did? Would be great if you had tracked the amount of lean body mass you carry through the years. My guess is that you carried the most muscle when you did that cycle back in the day and since then you lost a little and have been floating in the same range +/- a kilo or two.

Not only me, Paco is always laughing at those gurus like you because of it.
Accroding to him, "Gimme a break, even my physique is changing every year and need different approach. If we talk about different individual...."

Of course Paco changes... when he changes his drug protocol. Same as you Paco won't gain muscle unless he increases his dosages and/or adds drugs. Though I'm sure you'll say Paco is practically clean and just keeps growing due to eating pineapple and screaming while doing laterals.

[kyomu]

I guess we'll see how dramatic the gains were when you step on stage. Too bad you didn't do body composition analysis, or maybe you did? Would be great if you had tracked the amount of lean body mass you carry through the years. My guess is that you carried the most muscle when you did that cycle back in the day and since then you lost a little and have been floating in the same range +/- a kilo or two.

Of course Paco changes... when he changes his drug protocol. Same as you Paco won't gain muscle unless he increases his dosages and/or adds drugs. Though I'm sure you'll say Paco is practically clean and just keeps growing due to eating pineapple and screaming while doing laterals.

Woa, you are real helpless, I wish i could invite you here. Then you will see me as a god or alien or smething like that. I am waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaay bigger than that 1993 1month cycle days. You cant even compare. Your post is revealing that you are a real hard gainer. I am super sure that you dont train hard and eat. I think you are super, no, HYPER arrogant that you think that YOU KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT OUR PHYSIQUE and you didnt achive anything about bbing. Jeeze......


And Paco dont have any clue about his physique and YOU KNOW MORE THAN HIM. Waaaaaaaaahahahhahahahah ahahahhaaaaaaaa!!
Sorry, its a big joke though...
What? Getbig is a team of Psychic heroes?