Author Topic: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)  (Read 30917 times)

SAMSON123

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I heard on the news recent talk of cassini orbiting Saturn and immediately thought of the post I put up some weeks ago about NASA crashing Cassini into Saturn with over 70 pounds of plutonium in order to ignite the planet into a second star in our solar system. I found some information giving dates as to when this event is supposed to happen. These Luciferians tried to ignite Jupiter with Galileo, which had about 50 pounds of plutonium, but it failed. This new attempt with the smaller Saturn but a greater amount of plutonium is hoped by these luciferian nuts to accomplish the task. If any of you remember the movie 2010 you'll remember at the end one of the astronauts looked back in space to see Jupiter burning as a second sun. As i understand Saturn was always the main objective in this project (as this article below explains) but it was altered adn Jupiter made the focus. Now in 2010 (now) the plan is to crash Cassini into Saturn in hopes of igniting it for the reason of supposedly warming up Saturns moons so they can be made habitable....Uh Yeah!!!   Read Below...

Possible Timing of an Event

Refer to the diagram on the last page of this report for dates and symbols referenced here.

Starting with the obvious, in A.C. Clarke’s novel “2010”, Jupiter is turned into a star called ‘Lucifer’. If Clarke (now deceased) had any kind of inside knowledge at all, the year 2010 should be a year to look at closely for such an event to be construed. It is important to note that Clarke intended to write the novel “2010” about Saturn and in fact had done so in the prequel “2001” with full purpose to continue the adventure there, but he was convinced by others, including Stanley Kubrick, to change the mark to Jupiter for what seemed to be very weak reasons.

Also note that Clarke was a Luciferian evidenced by his spoken philosophies in his interviews and books. A Luciferian philosophy is one that expects man to eventually achieve “godlike” status by effort of the mind, scientific illuminism, scientific enlightenment, and human progress. It discards all world religions as infantile and hindering to man.

In this philosophy Lucifer is not actually a deity or entity but an ideal of “seeking the light of knowledge”.

There are at least two indications of the end of the “Equinox Mission”.

        * One is implied for July/03/2010 on NASA’s Cassini tour schedule where Cassini is to make its last
           currently scheduled engine burn 12

        *Another is shown on an “Equinox Mission” announcement banner showing “September 2010” as
          the end 13

Taking both into consideration we should initially look at a range of July to September 2010 for this mission to wind down and finish. When Galileo was sent into Jupiter, it took several months to complete the final orbit since Galileo was evidently required to make a lengthy outward bound in order to accomplish its equatorial plunge correctly. Assuming similar measures would be required for Cassini we should allow a few months for the final orbit to occur.

However, as with Galileo, the extra time for the final orbit should be somewhat figured into the mission length already by canceling a few irrelevant maneuvers at the end of the mission.

According to the timing of the plunge and circumstantial evidence of a fission event 27+ days later from the Galileo Pu-238 fuel cylinders’ dive, we have established this as our first period of time lapse between the two (27+ days). Factoring in the difference in settings between Jupiter and Saturn, namely Saturn being half as dense, smaller, and possibly taking a polar strike instead of equatorial plunge as with Galileo, as well as a longer amount of time elapsed for the decay of the plutonium in Cassini, we must apply an uncertainty factor to this 27 day period.

Arbitrarily we have selected a factor range of roughly one-third to triple to be safe, netting a span of 10 to 80 days wait period instead of 27+. For example, assume an actual plunge on 07/09/10 would net a potential event somewhere between July/18/2010 to September/28/2010, September/09/2010 being a symbolic date in that range (for reasons to be shown shortly).

Effects from any ejecta traveling to Earth from Saturn from a significant event would be felt 1 to 5 weeks later on Earth depending on the speed of the particles and molecules ejected. This could be a continuous stream in this time frame or possibly just a few bursts from anytime within this range. It’s reasonable to conclude that lighter elements would arrive first, heavier elements later.

For the timing of such an event we start by looking for astronomical/astrological significance for the general time of the end of the “Equinox Mission” as this Cassini extension is called. If there is to be some alignment with a plunge or ignition of Saturn with significant celestial events it seems reasonable to choose from these dates for potential mission ending events.

Noting that on both 07/09/10 (six days after Cassini’s last noted task on NASA’s tour guide) and 09/09/10 (and in between these two dates), Saturn is very close to a celestial triple intersection in the sky, based on the Celestial Autumnal Equinox of the Equatorial Coordinate System (ecliptic line meets celestial meridian line meets celestial equatorial line, where RA=12, and Dec=0).14

We can further attribute significance to these dates especially considering that Cassini’s mission is called the “Equinox Mission” (the reason stated by NASA is that Saturn’s own vernal (spring) equinox occurs during this mission on 08/11/09 with its tilt regarding the Sun).15 Note that “The Equinox” is also the name of an extensive work by Aleister Crowley in which the meridian points of space discussed here are very prominent in the writing.

Crowley established the “OTO” (Ordo Templi Orientis) which was a group with a Luciferian philosophy that was the main influence and forerunner to the “Brotherhood of Saturn” (Fraternitas Saturni), which is considered by some, including Dr. Stephen E. Flowers, as the most influential modern occult German order, an order which considers Saturn’s movements (and often Uranus’s) most important.16

When Aries and Libra points are discussed in “The Equinox” book, these refer to the Sun at two celestial meridian line crossings, at 0 (RA=0) and 180 (RA=12) degrees.

        *Our 07/09/10 point for Saturn, at the end of Virgo House just before Libra House (the autumnal equinox Sun location), is the latter.17 In other words, Saturn is at the equinox line on 07/09/10, the same line the Sun will be on 09/22/10 (Earth’s autumnal equinox).

        *On 09/09/10 Saturn reaches the Declination point of 0.0.

        *09/09/10 is thirteen days before Earth’s autumnal equinox, sometimes called the Virgo Equinox,18
          and is also Rosh Hashanah for 2010 (sundown on the 8th and into the 9th). So a possible
          speculation at this point is that if a plunge-ignition plan is to be in place at the end of the Equinox
          Mission of Cassini, it will symbolically occur in the Virgo constellation near RA=12.0, Dec=0.0. This
          is very near to the Virgo star called Zaniah (meaning “angel” or “harlot”).

        *09/09/10 seems to be the strongest power point and might be chosen as the entry time or the
          planned ignition event. One potential plan could be to plunge on 07/09/10, Saturn at RA=12.0, and
          hope for an event around two months later on 09/09/10, Saturn at Dec=0.0 at 3:29 pm EDT.

        *09/09/10 offers other power points, a New Moon only a few hours old present just below Saturn at
          this time, and Saturn inside two symbolic triangles Arcturus-Spica-Regulus and nearly exactly at
          the center of Chi-Xi-Stigma Virginis (the last star in this set, Stigma Virginis, is also known as a
          3+3 double star called Porrima A & B, or Digamma Virginis).

Chi-Xi-Stigma is an ancient apocalyptic symbol and also a self-given Aleister Crowley reference which I will leave to your own follow-up for fear of getting too far out of line.

In addition to these power points, author David Ovason also describes the Arcturus-Spica-Regulus triangle as important in secret elite circles in his book entitled “Secret Architecture of our Nation’s Capital”. 19 For all dates listed here, Saturn is within this triangle. Also Ovason mentions the significance of the equilateral triangle of Arcturus-Denebola-Spica (as noted by A. Pike) which our speculation point for Saturn on 09/09/10 sits centered underneath in the sky near the Celestial Meridian.

Briefly described here, Ovason supports a theory in which foundation stones of several landmark buildings of Washington D.C. were laid aligning with sky events at 23.4°+/- Virgo during construction of prominent Washington D.C. structures as well as important buildings aligned with the horizon rising of fixed stars of Arcturus, Spica, and Regulus. Saturn moves from 23° to 24° Virgo from 09/02/09 to 09/09/09 near a star called Zavijava (meaning, “the point of turning” or “the angle”).

One additional item applying to both 09/09/10 and 09/09/09 is that both of these potential ignition event scenarios offer a Sun shield effect for earth in the result of any significant ejecta actually exploding out from Saturn and consequently reaching Earth days to weeks later. In other words, at the time that ejecta would be approaching Earth from Saturn, it would have to cross the Sun directly as the Saturn-Sun conjuncts, as viewed from earth, occur within two to three weeks (10/01/10 & 09/18/09 respectively) of the above-stated Sept. dates; this line of reasoning assumes the Sun could divert and/or swallow some of the ejecta that would otherwise hit Earth in such a case.

Of special note, consider that Saturn’s retrograde pause (a planetary pause just before a planet appears to move backwards as viewed from Earth) in late 2008 culminates on 01/01/09 at around 21° Virgo and then heads backwards towards Chi Leo pausing on 05/18/09 before going forward again.

These retrograde pauses should always be considered for contrived events since they are significant to some. Also note that Saturn’s 2010 retrograde (retrograde is sometimes symbolized as “Px”) loop starts 01/14/10 and straddles RA=12 and Dec=0 just above the Equatorial Coordinate System triple intersection. Hours later (into 01/15/10), while Saturn is still pretty much in the same spot, just a bit in retrograde, there is a perfect annular eclipse occurring out of view from Washington D.C (7:07 UT, 2:07 am ET) at 19h 47m with Venus just below.

Summarizing some of the more symbolic times as far as celestial symbology is concerned for Saturn’s path (Cassini plunge or fission event) in chronological order:

        *01/01/09 – Retrograde pause, New Year, 21º+ Virgo

        *05/18/09 – Retrograde pause, near Chi Leo

        *09/09/09 – Last day 23º Virgo, Special symbolic date, near Zavijava, D.C. foundations (D. Ovason)

        *10/22/09 – Meridian crossing

        *01/14(&15)/10 – Retrograde pause, A-D-S triangle, near C-X-S triangle center, near Declination
          0.0, near Zaniah, perfect annular eclipse (Jan. 15th)

        *04/21/10 – Meridian crossing

        *05/31/10 – Near meridian crossing, retrograde pause, near Zavijava

        *06/08/10 – 1st Uranus-Jupiter conjunct (close conjunct on the Celestial Vernal Equinox directly
          opposite Saturn at this time)

        *06/26/10 – Partial lunar eclipse, straddles RA=0 and Dec=0

        *07/09/10 – Meridian crossing, near one declared end mission time, total solar eclipse 07/11/10

        *09/09/10 – A-D-S triangle, C-X-S triangle center, Declination 0.0, near Zaniah, near one declared
         end mission time, New Moon below

        *09/18/10 – 2nd Uranus-Jupiter conjunct on the Celestial Vernal Equinox (nearly opposite Saturn at
          this time)

        *10/08/10 – Mercury-Saturn conjunct

For all dates above Saturn is within the D. Ovason A-S-R triangle. (Arcturus-Spica-Regulus)

        *A-D-S = Albert Pike’s Arcturus-Denebola-Spica equilateral triangle (Saturn centered below this)

        *C-X-S = Chi-Xi-Stigma triangle within the Virgo constellation (Saturn centered in this)

The diagram below illustrates the power points just described.



information on the star chart is from “Starry Night” program

 

Up to the later part of 2010, the July/09/2010 to September/09/2010 combination, 01/14(&15)/10, and 09/09/09 seem strong for contrived symbolic sky events. Multiple other dates discussed above seem moderately strong. Saturn (and Cassini if still orbiting) continues on past Porrima in October/November of 2010.

With respect to “Constellation vs. House”, because of precession, most of the Virgo constellation is now in Libra House.

References

       1. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_luciferproject05.htm

       2. http://yowusa.com/space/2003/space-2003-09a/1.shtml

       3. http://www.enterprisemission.com/NukingJupiter.html

       4. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/jupiter_dark_spot_031023.html

       5. http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/saturn/lpnew.htm

       6. http://exopolitics.org/Exo-Comment-55.htm

       7. http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-19122765.html

       8. http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/06057A/USA_193_NOTAM_unverified.pdf

       9. http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/lunar.html

      10. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_Bethlehem

      11. http://www.electric-cosmos.org/indexOLD.htm

      12. http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/operations/cassini-calendar-2010.cfm

      13. http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=3129

      14. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_coordinate_system

      15. http://ciclops.org/view_event/87/Cassinis_Next_Chapter_Begins?js=1

      16. http://www.scribd.com/doc/3416535/Fire-and-Ice-The-Brotherhood-of-Saturn-OCRv1

      17. http://www.the-equinox.org/

      18.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox

      19. http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Architecture-Our-Nations-Capital/dp/0060195371    

    Other Links:

        * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternitas_Saturni  More information on the “Brotherhood of Saturn”



C

MB_722

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 10:55:40 PM »
when I have the time, real or not. I enjoy reading this crap. :D

SAMSON123

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 11:59:23 AM »
when I have the time, real or not. I enjoy reading this crap. :D

I hope it is CRAP, but I have to face the reality that it is not. After NASA detonated a Plutonium bomb with fifty pound of Plutonium in it and an EARTH SIZED EXPLOSION occurring on Jupiter in 2003, I don't doubt those Luciferians at NASA and in the US government will not do the same to Saturn. BTW..Just one pound of Plutonium will kill ALL LIFE ON EARTH.

So be aware sometime around the dates mentioned in the article of a possible flash in the night sky...If you see a planet engulfed in flames and the media giving all manner of bullshit excuses on what it is...You will know at that instant that these fools plans have been a success
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The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2010, 03:50:49 PM »
After NASA detonated a Plutonium bomb with fifty pound of Plutonium in it and an EARTH SIZED EXPLOSION occurring on Jupiter in 2003, I don't doubt those Luciferians at NASA and in the US government will not do the same to Saturn. BTW..Just one pound of Plutonium will kill ALL LIFE ON EARTH.

Couple of points:

...50 lbs of plutonium is approximately 10 ten times the critical mass for plutonium (ten times over the limit where plutonium spontaneously fissions). Such an amount of plutonium would need to be divided into 20 or more triggering slugs, which makes proper compression impractical... besides such a huge amount of plutonium would be used in conjunction with an inordinate amount of enriched (fissionable) uranium, making the resultant warhead the biggest and heaviest thing ever put into orbit. It's just not a viable device... a good analogy would be the feasibility of a 50 ton bullet.

...one pound of plutonium would only kill all life on earth only if it were atomised and each individual living organism were administered it's precise designated share of atoms. Again, not really feasible.

...Saturn wouldn't burn.

And finally:

...this conspiracy theory is simply bat-shit crazy.



Guess it's true what they say... you gotta know science to talk science.



The Luke

SAMSON123

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2010, 04:44:41 PM »
Couple of points:

...50 lbs of plutonium is approximately 10 ten times the critical mass for plutonium (ten times over the limit where plutonium spontaneously fissions). Such an amount of plutonium would need to be divided into 20 or more triggering slugs, which makes proper compression impractical... besides such a huge amount of plutonium would be used in conjunction with an inordinate amount of enriched (fissionable) uranium, making the resultant warhead the biggest and heaviest thing ever put into orbit. It's just not a viable device... a good analogy would be the feasibility of a 50 ton bullet.

...one pound of plutonium would only kill all life on earth only if it were atomised and each individual living organism were administered it's precise designated share of atoms. Again, not really feasible.

...Saturn wouldn't burn.

And finally:

...this conspiracy theory is simply bat-shit crazy.



Guess it's true what they say... you gotta know science to talk science.



The Luke

You have added nothing to this discussion. The point is this is an actual project by NASA, NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY. As I said and the article says, the first attempt to detonate Jupiter occurred in 2003...produced an earth sized explosion but no blazing fireball. Second attempt now involves more plutonium on a smaller planet with a different chemistry. TO give the hypothesis you gave about necessary factors for an explosion to occurs on earth is just that A HYPOTHESIS, as the factors of earth are entirely different than Jupiter or Saturn. How radioactive reactions occur in space, on planets with massive gravities, different chemistry, incredible atmospheric pressures etc etc...could be the difference between a big KABOOM or a big SILENCE. Nonetheless the point in my article is not that the KABOOM could or could not happen, but the fact that MAD MEN are trying to bring this to fruition.
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2010, 05:21:19 PM »
makes you wonder about who Kubrick was close with.




SAMSON123

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 07:49:18 AM »
makes you wonder about who Kubrick was close with.





He is or should I say he was an insider of the 33rd degree kind. That black and red ritual in EYES WIDE SHUT and the igniting of Jupiter in 2010 SPACE ODYSSEY is an inside look into the world of freemasony rituals and things they desire to do.... The Black and Red clothing of EYES WIDE SHUT also speaks of the Bohemian Grove rituals where they dress and do the same thing...
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Eyeball Chambers

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 11:24:42 AM »
He is or should I say he was an insider of the 33rd degree kind. That black and red ritual in EYES WIDE SHUT and the igniting of Jupiter in 2010 SPACE ODYSSEY is an inside look into the world of freemasony rituals and things they desire to do.... The Black and Red clothing of EYES WIDE SHUT also speaks of the Bohemian Grove rituals where they dress and do the same thing...

Not doubting you, just curious... Do you have any thing to back that up?
S

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2010, 11:37:40 AM »
Not doubting you, just curious... Do you have any thing to back that up?
I couldn't find anything on it, maybe Samson has something... but I was shocked to learn this: Michael Richards is a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason. lol...

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2010, 11:43:01 AM »
I couldn't find anything on it, maybe Samson has something... but I was shocked to learn this: Michael Richards is a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason. lol...

HAHA

I saw that on Wikipedia a while back.  I've read a million books on Freemasonry now, everything I can get my hands on really.  So far I've got a high opinion of this group... Plus, my hero Dave Thomas made it to the honorary 33rd...  :)

I think it's interesting how Manly P. Hall points out that they're basically a modern version of the ancient mysteries.
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2010, 11:52:22 AM »
HAHA

I saw that on Wikipedia a while back.  I've read a million books on Freemasonry now, everything I can get my hands on really.  So far I've got a high opinion of this group... Plus, my hero Dave Thomas made it to the honorary 33rd...  :)

I think it's interesting how Manly P. Hall points out that they're basically a modern version of the ancient mysteries.
yea, the mysteries come into play quite a bit, especially with rosicrucians and stuff.  I posted an old ass book about a week ago dealing with masonic conspiracy.  Don't know if you saw it.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2010, 11:55:29 AM »
yea, the mysteries come into play quite a bit, especially with rosicrucians and stuff.  I posted an old ass book about a week ago dealing with masonic conspiracy.  Don't know if you saw it.

Yeah, I book marked it but forgot all about it.  I'm going to check it out now! Thanks  8)
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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2010, 12:11:48 PM »
You have added nothing to this discussion. The point is this is an actual project by NASA, NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY. As I said and the article says, the first attempt to detonate Jupiter occurred in 2003...produced an earth sized explosion but no blazing fireball. Second attempt now involves more plutonium on a smaller planet with a different chemistry. TO give the hypothesis you gave about necessary factors for an explosion to occurs on earth is just that A HYPOTHESIS, as the factors of earth are entirely different than Jupiter or Saturn. How radioactive reactions occur in space, on planets with massive gravities, different chemistry, incredible atmospheric pressures etc etc...could be the difference between a big KABOOM or a big SILENCE. Nonetheless the point in my article is not that the KABOOM could or could not happen, but the fact that MAD MEN are trying to bring this to fruition.

Good rebuttal. You refuted NOTHING.  ::)

Judging by this post, it's pretty clear that you know absolutely nothing about physics. So much for that engineer career.

SAMSON123

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2010, 04:48:27 PM »
Not doubting you, just curious... Do you have any thing to back that up?

Right at this instant I do not know of anyone or have anything stating directly that Kubrick is a MEMBER, however you are all to aware at this point that only 'MEMBERS' get to move up into high society. Look at your acclaimed actors, politicians, musicians, leaders, etc etc...They are always a part of some Temple, mason hall or masonic group and flashing the hand signs. For Kubrick, there has been so much Illuminati, Mason references in just about ALL of his movies that it is impossible that he was NOT one of them. Especially with EYES WIDE SHUT and 2010 the exposing of rituals, cultic acts, masonic future plans etc this would only be known by someone from the INSIDE. Also Kubrick has never said he made a movie or used these symbols based on research or some insider who revealed these things to him. So my only opinion is he knows these things from being an insider. Not to mention again that only the 'MEMBERS' get to ride the wave of FAME AND FORTUNE like Kubrick did. His downfall in his mysterious death (which was 666 days before 2010 movie release) may have been, as believed by many, was due to him exposing TOO MUCH...

http://foundingfather1776.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/the-genius-of-stanley-kubrick/







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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 04:57:17 PM »
Right at this instant I do not know of anyone or have anything stating directly that Kubrick is a MEMBER, however you are all to aware at this point that only 'MEMBERS' get to move up into high society. Look at your acclaimed actors, politicians, musicians, leaders, etc etc...They are always a part of some Temple, mason hall or masonic group and flashing the hand signs. For Kubrick, there has been so much Illuminati, Mason references in just about ALL of his movies that it is impossible that he was NOT one of them. Especially with EYES WIDE SHUT and 2010 the exposing of rituals, cultic acts, masonic future plans etc this would only be known by someone from the INSIDE. Also Kubrick has never said he made a movie or used these symbols based on research or some insider who revealed these things to him. So my only opinion is he knows these things from being an insider. Not to mention again that only the 'MEMBERS' get to ride the wave of FAME AND FORTUNE like Kubrick did. His downfall in his mysterious death (which was 666 days before 2010 movie release) may have been, as believed by many, was due to him exposing TOO MUCH...

http://foundingfather1776.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/the-genius-of-stanley-kubrick/









Interesting, thanks for posting!
S

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2010, 04:58:48 PM »
Now please refute The Luke's post beyond showing that you have no grasp of physics.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2010, 05:00:32 PM »
Now please refute The Luke's post beyond showing that you have no grasp of physics.

At first thought, it seems like any planet with the chemical makeup to become a star, or be ignited, would have already somehow ignited. 
S

SAMSON123

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2010, 05:36:16 PM »
Now please refute The Luke's post beyond showing that you have no grasp of physics.

If Luke can not understand the difference between earth and one of the gas giants then there is little I can do to make him understand that what is possible on earth is IMPOSSIBLE on the gas giants. The sun is not merely some ball of gas burning in space. Hydrogen, Oxygen, Methane are highly explosive on earth in an oxygen rich environment but in space they are inert gases. To assume the criteria for a reaction on earth will work on another planet of different physical characteristics and properties is foolish....
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The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2010, 06:40:45 PM »
Funny thread...

If Luke can not understand the difference between earth and one of the gas giants then there is little I can do to make him understand that what is possible on earth is IMPOSSIBLE on the gas giants. The sun is not merely some ball of gas burning in space. Hydrogen, Oxygen, Methane are highly explosive on earth in an oxygen rich environment but in space they are inert gases. To assume the criteria for a reaction on earth will work on another planet of different physical characteristics and properties is foolish....

Nuclear reactions are not dependent on chemistry... they are nuclear reactions, not chemical reactions.

You cannot ignite a gas giant with a nuclear bomb. There isn't enough oxygen (or similar reactive element) to sustain such a reaction.

You cannot trigger a self-sustaining thermonuclear reaction either (which is what I think you meant, but not what you wrote) in a gas giant such as either Jupiter or Saturn by means of a nuclear explosion, no matter what the magnitude of such an explosion.

Stanley Kubrick had nothing to do with the movie "2010: A Space Odyssey" (1984) in which an alien intelligence converted Jupiter into a white dwarf star in order to nurture burgeoning life on its moon Europa.
See for yourself: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086837/fullcredits#cast ...actually a good movie.

Stanley Kubrick directed and help write the 1968 movie "2001: A Space Odyssey". A seminal movie no doubt, but does not include the conversion of Jupiter into a proto star as a plot point.

You cannot use 50 or 70 lbs of plutonium in a nuclear warhead... not only is it cost-prohibitive (plutonium is NOT naturally occuring), but plutonium is only used as a trigger in nuclear warheads... if you are using 50 lbs of plutonium in the trigger, how many trigger pieces (smaller than the critical mass of approximately 4 lbs) would that require? How much enriched uranium would you be using? How much tritium? How big would the warhead be?

Nuclear bombs behave the same way no matter where they are... on Earth, in space or on any another planet. The only situation under which a nuclear warhead would behave in any unpredictable way would be in a situation wherein the laws of physics have changed... that only happens inside a black hole.

It's physics, it's not location dependent... you are confusing science with magic.

One is reality... the other is delusion.


The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2010, 06:49:50 PM »
Funny thread...

Nuclear reactions are not dependent on chemistry... they are nuclear reactions, not chemical reactions.

You cannot ignite a gas giant with a nuclear bomb. There isn't enough oxygen (or similar reactive element) to sustain such a reaction.

You cannot trigger a self-sustaining thermonuclear reaction either (which is what I think you meant, but not what you wrote) in a gas giant such as either Jupiter or Saturn by means of a nuclear explosion, no matter what the magnitude of such an explosion.

Stanley Kubrick had nothing to do with the movie "2010: A Space Odyssey" (1984) in which an alien intelligence converted Jupiter into a white dwarf star in order to nurture burgeoning life on its moon Europa.
See for yourself: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086837/fullcredits#cast ...actually a good movie.

Stanley Kubrick directed and help write the 1968 movie "2001: A Space Odyssey". A seminal movie no doubt, but does not include the conversion of Jupiter into a proto star as a plot point.

You cannot use 50 or 70 lbs of plutonium in a nuclear warhead... not only is it cost-prohibitive (plutonium is NOT naturally occuring), but plutonium is only used as a trigger in nuclear warheads... if you are using 50 lbs of plutonium in the trigger, how many trigger pieces (smaller than the critical mass of approximately 4 lbs) would that require? How much enriched uranium would you be using? How much tritium? How big would the warhead be?

Nuclear bombs behave the same way no matter where they are... on Earth, in space or on any another planet. The only situation under which a nuclear warhead would behave in any unpredictable way would be in a situation wherein the laws of physics have changed... that only happens inside a black hole.

It's physics, it's not situation dependent... you are confusing science with magic.

One is reality... the other is delusion.


The Luke

Damn Samson. You just got bitch slapped.

Thought you were an engineer? Gimmick exposed for being uneducated trash.  ::)

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2010, 06:59:33 PM »
Absolutely awesome thread. Facts can spell trouble to any 'creative' conspiracy theory.
As empty as paradise

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2010, 07:56:28 PM »
 author=The Luke link=topic=313855.msg4482627#msg4482627 date=1263177645]
Funny thread...

Quote
Nuclear reactions are not dependent on chemistry... they are nuclear reactions, not chemical reactions.

If it is not dependent on chemistry and the physical differences between earth and Jupiter...why is Jupiter not burning right now? You do realize that the goal was to get the chemicals of methane, nitrogen and hydrogen which are abundant on Jupiter to ignite using the plutonium explosion??? You do know that don't you???

Quote
You cannot ignite a gas giant with a nuclear bomb. There isn't enough oxygen (or similar reactive element) to sustain such a reaction.

First..
Why is the SUN burning then???

Second..
Are you a part of NASA of the Luciferians who wish(ed) to ignite one of the gas giants? Let me know, because I can then direct you to them and have you explain to them how WRONG they are in thinking their task is possible and save your american tax payers BILLIONS of dollars in sending these covert nuclear bombs into space. Oh and BTW..let me remind you for the thousandth time that this project is NOT my opinion or doing, but those in NASA/Government who have and are doing it.

Quote
You cannot trigger a self-sustaining thermonuclear reaction either (which is what I think you meant, but not what you wrote) in a gas giant such as either Jupiter or Saturn by means of a nuclear explosion, no matter what the magnitude of such an explosion.

UH..Again.. I did not say it!!!...it is the will/desire/thinking of NASA and the Lucifs who are behind this who said or think this is possible. So far as your comment, it (nuclear reaction) is applicable only on earth...NOT IN SPACE OR ON ANOTHER PLANET (how many times have I said that). You don't know what will happen on another planet or in space due to the differences.

Quote
Stanley Kubrick had nothing to do with the movie "2010: A Space Odyssey" (1984) in which an alien intelligence converted Jupiter into a white dwarf star in order to nurture burgeoning life on its moon Europa.
See for yourself: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086837/fullcredits#cast ...actually a good movie.


I brought up 2010 to reference the fact that the Lucifs and NASA desire igniting Jupiter. Why do you think the scene of Jupiter burning in the movie as a second sun is there?

Quote
Stanley Kubrick directed and help write the 1968 movie "2001: A Space Odyssey". A seminal movie no doubt, but does not include the conversion of Jupiter into a proto star as a plot point.

In the movie 2001 there is a monolith discovered on the moon that transmits signals to JUPITER, which then sparks and investigation and trip toward Jupiter where another monolith (bigger than the one on the moon) is discovered circling Jupiter. The movie 2010 is the sequal though not said to 2001 which follows up with turning Jupiter into a blazing star.

Quote
You cannot use 50 or 70 lbs of plutonium in a nuclear warhead... not only is it cost-prohibitive (plutonium is NOT naturally occuring), but plutonium is only used as a trigger in nuclear warheads... if you are using 50 lbs of plutonium in the trigger, how many trigger pieces (smaller than the critical mass of approximately 4 lbs) would that require? How much enriched uranium would you be using? How much tritium? How big would the warhead be?

You're joking with this comment right???...DO you think the american government gives a damn about cost when it comes to these things? You think they care that trillions have been spent on Iraq and Afghanistan...NO. They are only concerned about their desired goal. And again...I am only stating the FACTS of NASA in the goal to ignite Saturn since the Jupiter mission in 2003 which detonated 50 pounds of plutonium on Jupiter and produced an earth sized fire ball but no "second sun in the solar system".

Quote
Nuclear bombs behave the same way no matter where they are... on Earth, in space or on any another planet. The only situation under which a nuclear warhead would behave in any unpredictable way would be in a situation wherein the laws of physics have changed... that only happens inside a black hole.

Present your proof of this since nuclear bombs have only exploded on earth and produced the desired results. If what you say is true WHY IS JUPITER NOT BURNING RIGHT NOW!!!!!

Quote
It's physics, it's not location dependent... you are confusing science with magic.

HAHAHAH... so called science has claimed to know everythign, but when put to the test falls flat on its face. If the physics/science is so accurate WHY IS JUPITER NOT BURNING RIGHT NOW???
Quote
One is reality... the other is delusion.

You're right...the delusion is that you put all of your trust in science of which understanding is little.


The Luke
[/quote]
C

Skip8282

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2010, 08:20:51 PM »
TheLuke is actually dead-on with the science aspect:



________________________ ________________________ _______________

Will Galileo Make Jupiter a Star?
September 14, 2003
Update (November 14, 2003): It turns out that I made an error in one of my arguments on the original version of this page. It doesn't affect the end result (that Galileo cannot blow up like a bomb), but I want to make sure I am honest here. I don't want this to get in the way of the main point, so I am putting the explanation of my error at the bottom of this page. This page now reflects the current arguments. Here is the old, incorrect page.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 In October of 1989, NASA launched the Galileo spacecraft toward the planet Jupiter. Its mission was manyfold: to explore the moons of the giant planet, to investigate the environment of Jupiter's neighborhood, and to drop a probe into Jupiter's atmosphere to measure its physical characteristics.

After nearly eight years, Galileo's mission is over. It is out of fuel, and has been hammered by Jupiter's radioactive magnetic field for so long that its hardware is dying. NASA decided that the best thing to do is use the remaining fuel to drop the spacecraft into Jupiter, where it will burn up harmlessly. They feel this is better than letting it continue to orbit the planet, because it might eventually crash into one of the moons. One such moon, Europa, may just possibly have the right conditions for life to evolve, and they don't want Galileo to contaminate the moon, even given the extremely long odds of it happening. Galileo will plunge into Jupiter on September 21, 2003, around 20:00 hours Greenwich time.

But some people think that NASA had more plans for Galileo. They claim that NASA's nefarious scheme was to drop Galileo into Jupiter and use it to ignite Jupiter like a fusion bomb, either turning it into a star like the Sun, or simply blowing it to smithereens. J.C. Goliathan, one of the main proponents of this "Jupiter ignition" idea, has a long page about all this.

Can this be true? Could NASA accomplish such a dastardly plot?

As always, the short answer to this is to look at the title bar of your browser and read the name of this website. To save you time, I'll just say it here: no, Galileo will not do anything to Jupiter. Like a meteor, it'll burn up in the dense atmosphere, and become a part of the solar system's largest planet.

Yet the idea that Jupiter may explode is spreading across the web, sticking in this case (unlike the Moon Hoax or Planet X) mostly to the woowoo sites. So what are the main ideas behind it, and why are they wrong?

There are several ideas put forth, and they are wrong for lots of reasons. They sound legitimate, as many pseudoscientific ideas do, but that's different than actually being right. Let's take a look.

Here are the claims made by the alarmists:

Galileo has plutonium onboard. This is what makes fission bombs! NASA plans on creating a fission bomb using Galileo.

Fusion bombs are made by using fission bombs as triggers. The implosion caused by a fission bomb ignites hydrogen into fusion, generating a much bigger blast. Jupiter is made of mostly hydrogen! So it can be blown up like an H-bomb.

Stars work by fusing hydrogen. Jupiter might turn into a star, or it might simply blow up like a bomb.
Got all that? OK, point-by-point, let's see why it's all wrong.



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1) Galileo has plutonium onboard. This is what makes fission bombs! NASA plans on creating a fission bomb using Galileo.

Galileo does indeed have plutonium (Pu) onboard. The instruments onboard need power, and Jupiter is too far from the Sun to use solar power very well. The solar panels would need to be very large, too large and heavy to get to Jupiter.

Instead, Galileo uses a tried-and-true technology: radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs). Basically, these are extremely simple devices: inside an RTG is a pellet of radioactive material. As the material decays, it generates heat. The heat is converted to electricity, which powers the spacecraft.

Galileo's RTGs use plutonium in the form of ceramic pellets of plutonium dioxide. There is about 50 pounds of Pu onboard, stored in 144 separate cylindrical pellets. There are two RTGs on Galileo, each with 72 pellets (a paper about RTGs with a diagram can be found at NASA's Space Science website). Note: I am not going to get into a discussion over whether RTGs are safe, and the dangers or lack thereof posed by launching radioactive materials into space. Please read Spaceviews' page on RTGs for more info, and their list of pro and anti RTG sites as well.


 Fission bombs work in this (simplified) way. The nucleus of a plutonium atom naturally splits into two or more pieces when a neutron (a subatomic particle) hits it. When it splits (also called fissioning), it releases energy and more neutrons. These hit other nuclei, causing them to split, etc. If the atoms are too far apart, then this effect won't work, because, basically, the neutrons miss the other nuclei. But if the atoms are packed tightly enough, you get a runaway reaction. More and more split, the energy released gets very big, and boom! Atomic bomb.

The amount of mass you need packed together to get a runaway chain reaction is called the critical mass. For plutonium 238, the kind that was on Galileo, you need about 10 or so kilograms (22 pounds) all packed tightly into a ball. Galileo had more than that amount on board, but (and this is a huge but) it was spread out in smaller pieces. The RTGs extend along a long boom, a rod that extends out from the main body of the spacecraft, and not in a way that works as a fission bomb. There are 72 separate chambers where the Pu238 was stored, and each piece had a sub-critical mass. You would have to compress those pieces together to make them critical and cause a fission reaction.

But that could not happen. Why not? Because Galileo entered Jupiter at a speed of about 100,000 miles per hour. At that speed, the pressure would tear the spacecraft apart. It slows as it passes through denser atmosphere, of course, but the pressures would be so high at those velocities that Galileo would be shredded. As the pieces fall off, they are heated due to compressing the air in front of them. This is why meteors get hot, in fact, and at these speeds the metal on Galileo would melt in short order. This would release the plutonium, dispersing it.

So instead of compressing it, as the pseudoscientists claim, the plutonium would actually get strewn through Jupiter, making it literally impossible to explode. So step one -- Galileo becoming a fission bomb -- cannot happen.

Not that this stops the pseudoscientists, of course. The doomcriers at YOWUSA make a big deal of how Pu is used in a bomb, and even show the geometry of a fission-induced fusion bomb (Note added November, 2003: YOWUSA has made their archives available only to subscribers, so the image is no longer available). But that's not how the RTGs are constructed! Posting that image is grossly misleading. The RTGs are not in anything like the geometry of a fission bomb. This is more obfuscation on the part of the doomsayers. Also, the YOWUSA folks, when quoting Goliathan, appear to think that somehow the pressure from the passage of Galileo through Jupiter's atmosphere will compress the plutonium enough to start a chain reaction, which will then trigger fusion. But the fission has to happen with precise timing, and in a certain geometry. How do they propose that will happen, exactly, with Galileo tumbling down into Jupiter, parts of it flying off due to the heat and pressure of supersonic atmospheric entry? They somehow conveniently left that part off of their description.

Conclusion: The plutonium on Galileo cannot fission to become a bomb.



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2) Fusion bombs are made by using fission bombs as triggers. The implosion caused by a fission bomb ignites hydrogen into fusion, generating a much bigger blast.

A hydrogen bomb explodes because atomic nuclei of hydrogen are squeezed together. If squeezed hard enough, the atomic nuclei fuse (stick together), and that releases energy. You have to apply a lot of pressure and heat to get the hydrogen to do this, and one way to do that is to use the blast wave from a fission bomb.

Basically, a fission bomb is used to trigger a process which creates the hydrogen fuel for the fusion reaction (more on this in a moment). The shock wave and heat from the fission explosion must work in a very specific way to do this. When it works, the fusion releases far more energy than a fission explosion, which is why H-bombs have so much more explosive yield than A-bombs.

And hey, isn't Jupiter mostly hydrogen? Yikes, a fission explosion can make Jupiter explode like a bomb!

No, it can't, and for two reasons. Well, three if you include the fact that Galileo couldn't make a fission bomb, as noted above. But even if it could, it wouldn't make Jupiter detonate, because the RTGs aren't configured to be used as a fission trigger, and because Jupiter doesn't have the right stuff in it to fuse.

While Jupiter is mostly hydrogen, it's the wrong kind. Remember isotopes; atoms with different number of neutrons? Hydrogen has them too. A hydrogen nucleus at its simplest is just a lone proton. Deuterium (D2) is hydrogen with a neutron and a proton, and tritium (T3) is a proton with two neutrons. Fusion bombs need the neutron-added isotopes. Regular old hydrogen won't do it. Simply taking a sample of hydrogen gas and compressing it won't make it fuse; you need a fuel enriched with D2 and T3. Finding these materials isn't all that easy, and a randomly selected pocket of Jupiter's gas is unlikely in the extreme to have them in sufficient quantities to explode.

What's worse, the way we make bombs these days, you need lithium to make them work, and that's not terribly common in Jupiter either. Here's how a fusion bomb works. You need a fission explosion to start with, which is used to do two things: it generates X-rays, which heat and compress the fusion fuel, and it actually helps create the fuel. As I have discovered while researching this article, the process is somewhat complicated. In a very brief nutshell, the fission explosion is used to irradiate lithium. Neutrons from the fission explosion combine with the lithium to create tritium. The heat and pressure from the X-rays compress the tritium, and bang!

Again, this sequence of events is highly unlikely to occur on Jupiter. You need lots of lithium, which is not terribly abundant. You need it to make tritium, which is highly unstable (it doesn't last long once created) and again unlikely in the extreme to be found in Jupiter's atmosphere. It's really just plain old silly to think this could happen with Galileo, even if it had the right kind of fission material. Which it doesn't.

This doesn't stop Goliathan from speculating wildly, though. He says:

However, conventional belief says that Deuterium and Tritium (isotopes of Hydrogen) are necessary to accomplish fusion. Both may be present or created during a reaction within the dense liquid hydrogen of Jupiter.
Again, he doesn't state how this might happen. I am not an expert on such things, and won't speculate, but it seems unlikely that Jupiter can create these elements, given that it takes nuclear reactions to do it (specifically, a proton has to absorb an electron and an anti-neutrino to become a neutron). Jupiter isn't big enough to do it.

Even if you supplied a fission bomb, you won't get hydrogen (tritium) to fuse. And Galileo doesn't have what it takes to make a fission explosion.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) Stars work by fusing hydrogen. Jupiter might turn into a star, or it might simply blow up like a bomb.

OK, so we don't have fission, and we don't have fusion. So let's suppose, contrary to all evidence, that NASA is really lying to us, and has put fission bombs and fusion fuel aboard Galileo. When they go off, will Jupiter explode, or turn into a star?

Nope, and nope. Fusion is not a runaway process. Once you start it up, it generates a lot of heat, which tends to expand the material violently (this is what we technically call a bomb). This means the fuel gets scattered, and it won't fuse. Making really big hydrogen bombs run into this problem, making it hard to make really big bombs, which in my book is perhaps a good thing.

So the process tends to damp itself off. Jupiter won't explode. It won't turn into a star, either. Stars work by maintaining fusion in their cores. Now, I just said fusion isn't self-sustaining, so how do stars keep it going? They do it by containing the hydrogen in a small volume. This is accomplished by piling a lot of mass on top of the hydrogen: the mass of the star.

The star has enough gravity that all that mass squeezes and heats the core enough for fusion to not only take place, but to continue at a relatively stable pace. But it turns out there is a lower limit to that mass; if you don't have enough, then you don't get the high temperatures and pressures necessary to ignite fusion. That mass is about 0.077 times the mass of the Sun, or 80 times Jupiter's mass. In other words, Jupiter is 1/80th the mass it needs to turn into a star. Some people call Jupiter a failed star, but in reality it ain't even close.

Conclusion: Jupiter won't explode, or turn into a star, because it lacks the containment to keep fusion going.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's more, of course. Goliathan, in his article, makes lots of statements as if they are facts, but are actually wrong. For example, it might be relevant to ask why NASA doesn't simply boost Galileo out of the Jupiter system and into space, rather than smack it into Jupiter. Goliathan takes that farther:


Some argue that the craft is caught in Jupiter's pull now, but with all of the gravity assist tricks available, and still some propellant left, the craft should be able to break free even if they had to use an assist of one of the larger moons.
Here he shows a profound ignorance of the situation. Jupiter's gravity is immense. Escape velocity is quite high, nearly 6 times (*) that of Earth's! If Galileo had enough fuel to escape from Jupiter, then we wouldn't have needed to use gravity assists from Venus and twice with Earth. As an example, the propellant used to get to Jupiter needed to change Galileo's velocity by about 15 kilometers/second (the difference between the Earth's orbital speed and Jupiter's). The rocket could not provide that on its own, so we needed help from the gravity of Venus and Earth. But, to escape Jupiter from, say, the distance of Europa, Galileo needs to add 6 km/s to its velocity, a healthy chunk of what it needed to get to Jupiter in the first place. Closer in to Jupiter the situation is even worse. Up until about 2001, there was enough fuel on board Galileo to have it get into an escape trajectory, but after that there was too little fuel left.

If I have time I will add to this article over the next few days, but I think I've made it pretty clear that this idea that Galileo will somehow cause a nuclear explosion on Jupiter is wrong. Remember, if you hear something on the web about how some astronomical event may cause doomsday here on Earth, read it with a very skeptical eye. And check Bad Astronomy before you start putting your affairs in order!

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/jupiter_galileo.html

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2010, 09:15:36 PM »
Watching Samson try to refute his points without actually referencing anything close to physics is hilarious. This guy claimed to be an engineer. A basic understanding of physics is pretty much a requirement of any field in engineering. Samson has been exposed for the lying gimmick that he is.

Guy doesn't even understand simple science.

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2010, 09:30:04 PM »
TheLuke is actually dead-on with the science aspect:

...I should hope so, my honours degree in experimental physics should qualify me for something.


The Luke