Author Topic: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)  (Read 31852 times)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2010, 09:40:37 PM »
...I should hope so, my honours degree in experimental physics should qualify me for something.


The Luke
hey, question for you. back in the 80's there was this movie with Martin Sheen where there was this theory that a large enough nuke could cause some sort of chain reaction or something that would end up eating up the entire atmosphere.  Some people back then said that it was an actual theory they were worried about.  BS or True?

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2010, 09:56:07 PM »
hey, question for you. back in the 80's there was this movie with Martin Sheen where there was this theory that a large enough nuke could cause some sort of chain reaction or something that would end up eating up the entire atmosphere.  Some people back then said that it was an actual theory they were worried about.  BS or True?

...an actual theory.

Several expert Manhattan Project physicists, when awaiting the detonation of the first ever nuclear device at the Trinity Test Site (July 44 if memory serves), quipped that such a mechanism (a nuke igniting the nitrogen in the atmosphere) would be the perfect fail-safe for a cautious creator/god: any civilization that attempted to use nuclear weapons would effectively self destruct. A Book of Genesis apple built right into the fabric of reality.

I think it had more to do with a melancholic reflection on the apocalyptic force they had unleashed upon the world... or maybe they just wanted to frighten the generals. It's one of those things physicists say to remind each other of the savagery and brutality of regular people, people who can't do math. It's not supposed to be taken seriously. Google "grey goo" for a modern example.

Remember what Oppenheimer remarked upon witnessing the first nuke: "Behold, I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds" (a quote from the sanscrit Vedas)

Such a mechanism isn't really feasible... it's pretty hard to contain so much heat energy, it dissapates rather explosively.



The Luke

tonymctones

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2010, 10:10:50 PM »
If you had told me there would be a day when I was glad that The Luke was a poster on the politics board I would have called you damn liar...

Glad to have witnessed the owning of the idiocy that is samson

thank you luke  ;D

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2010, 10:18:25 PM »
Glad to have witnessed the owning of the idiocy that is samson

thank you luke  ;D


...This samson guy is some sort of gimmick? Right?


The Luke

tonymctones

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2010, 10:28:20 PM »

...This samson guy is some sort of gimmick? Right?


The Luke
ya nobody knows whos it is though

hugo was thrown out there, I doubt it is him though

could be 240 as he too is CT happy and maybe didnt want to take the ridicule but I doubt it.

 ???

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2010, 10:30:28 PM »
...an actual theory.

Several expert Manhattan Project physicists, when awaiting the detonation of the first ever nuclear device at the Trinity Test Site (July 44 if memory serves), quipped that such a mechanism (a nuke igniting the nitrogen in the atmosphere) would be the perfect fail-safe for a cautious creator/god: any civilization that attempted to use nuclear weapons would effectively self destruct. A Book of Genesis apple built right into the fabric of reality.

I think it had more to do with a melancholic reflection on the apocalyptic force they had unleashed upon the world... or maybe they just wanted to frighten the generals. It's one of those things physicists say to remind each other of the savagery and brutality of regular people, people who can't do math. It's not supposed to be taken seriously. Google "grey goo" for a modern example.

Remember what Oppenheimer remarked upon witnessing the first nuke: "Behold, I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds" (a quote from the sanscrit Vedas)

Such a mechanism isn't really feasible... it's pretty hard to contain so much heat energy, it dissapates rather explosively.



The Luke
what about my question?  Yes, no, or you don't know?

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2010, 10:44:24 PM »
what about my question?  Yes, no, or you don't know?

...I answered it.


...an actual theory.

...

Such a mechanism isn't really feasible... it's pretty hard to contain so much heat energy, it dissapates rather explosively.

Yes it was a real theory, but easily dispelled.

-lots of asteroids and meteorite strikes have hit the Earth generating bigger explosions and even comparable temperatures, but none ignited the atmosphere... not in a self-sustaining way at least. Google "Tunguska 1903" for a good example.

-studies using very high powered lasers have shown conclusively that nitrogen does not burn sustainably in oxygen no matter what the combustion ratio.


The Luke

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2010, 10:49:05 PM »
...I answered it.


Yes it was a real theory, but easily dispelled.

-lots of asteroids and meteorite strikes have hit the Earth generating bigger explosions and even comparable temperatures, but none ignited the atmosphere... not in a self-sustaining way at least. Google "Tunguska 1903" for a good example.

-studies using very high powered lasers have shown conclusively that nitrogen does not burn sustainably in oxygen no matter what the combustion ratio.


The Luke
ok thanks, I was confused by all the grey goo and God genesis talk lol...

SAMSON123

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2010, 10:53:13 PM »
Watching Samson try to refute his points without actually referencing anything close to physics is hilarious. This guy claimed to be an engineer. A basic understanding of physics is pretty much a requirement of any field in engineering. Samson has been exposed for the lying gimmick that he is.

Guy doesn't even understand simple science.

YAWN...You use the same line in every response to every question, every time... ONE TRICK PONY. Have you ever tried catching your tail in your teeth by running in circles?
C

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2010, 11:04:41 PM »
YAWN...You use the same line in every response to every question, every time... ONE TRICK PONY. Have you ever tried catching your tail in your teeth by running in circles?

You don't actually understand much science though, do you...?

How else do you get lured in by these transparently ridiculous conspiracy theories?


Igniting Jupiter and Saturn? Please... your misunderstanding of the difference between combustion (how things burn in oxygen) and thermonuclear fusion (how stars burn) notwithstanding... if such was possible, wouldn't one of the major collisions suffered by Jupiter and Saturn during their life cycles thus far have accomplished such an ignition?

A little logic... please.


The Luke

SAMSON123

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2010, 11:10:26 PM »

...This samson guy is some sort of gimmick? Right?


The Luke

WRONG LUKE!!!!!...maybe you should use the force and stop relying on theories, unsupported science and hypotheticals. They are good for guess work, but not for facts.

Scientist said the world was heating up! Scientist said two planes brought down two towers in controlled demolition style by crashing into them! Scientist said we have too much carbon dioxide floating around! Scientist said swine flu was a pandemic that was going to kill everyone on the planet!... DO YA THINK YOU SHOULD STOP LISTENING TO SCIENTIST?... They can not even give me the correct weather forecast from one day to the next.

But keep trying luke... I mean ya gotta make the fools that handed you an honorary degree in EXPERIMENTAL physics feel like they have accomplished something by doing so. Noticed I enlarged experimental...ya wanna know why?


C

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2010, 11:13:07 PM »
Go on... this thread is too cringe-worthy to end so soon.


The Luke

SAMSON123

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2010, 11:25:41 PM »
You don't actually understand much science though, do you...?

How else do you get lured in by these transparently ridiculous conspiracy theories?


Igniting Jupiter and Saturn? Please... your misunderstanding of the difference between combustion (how things burn in oxygen) and thermonuclear fusion (how stars burn) notwithstanding... if such was possible, wouldn't one of the major collisions suffered by Jupiter and Saturn during their life cycles thus far have accomplished such an ignition?

A little logic... please.


The Luke

Everything you vomited out is THEORY luke...poor theory at that. Hate to surprise you, but that is all it is. Guess work, hypotheses, wishful thinking. The fact that a large earth sized explosion occurred on Jupiter has already rendered much of what you 'supposed'... useless. What was missing is/was the chain reaction and fire ball they: NASA, hoped for. And for the BILLIONTH time I am/have presented what NASA hoped to accomplish...not what I want to accomplish. I have already stated how RIDICULOUS the whole matter is in even desiring to ignite a gas giant. Maybe if you spent more time reading my post instead of jumping to dumb conclusions a lot of unnecessary typing could have been saved. Nonetheless I have already addressed the issue of igniting a gas giant and how the chemistry, and physical differences between jupiter/saturn are different than earth and thereby what occurs readily on earth can and will not occur on these planets. Go back and read the posts from the beginning of the thread...
C

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2010, 11:28:58 PM »
Everything you vomited out is THEORY luke...poor theory at that. Hate to surprise you, but that is all it is. Guess work, hypotheses, wishful thinking. The fact that a large earth sized explosion occurred on Jupiter has already rendered much of what you 'supposed'... useless. What was missing is/was the chain reaction and fire ball they: NASA, hoped for. And for the BILLIONTH time I am/have presented what NASA hoped to accomplish...not what I want to accomplish. I have already stated how RIDICULOUS the whole matter is in even desiring to ignite a gas giant. Maybe if you spent more time reading my post instead of jumping to dumb conclusions a lot of unnecessary typing could have been saved. Nonetheless I have already addressed the issue of igniting a gas giant and how the chemistry, and physical differences between jupiter/saturn are different than earth and thereby what occurs readily on earth can and will not occur on these planets. Go back and read the posts from the beginning of the thread...
that's what I thought you were saying too and I remember you saying it couldn't happen but Luke had me confused a bit replying like you thought it was possible.  I thought we already did this thread where we talked about it not being possible.

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2010, 11:37:47 PM »
Everything you vomited out is THEORY luke...poor theory at that. Hate to surprise you, but that is all it is. Guess work, hypotheses, wishful thinking. The fact that a large earth sized explosion occurred on Jupiter has already rendered much of what you 'supposed'... useless. What was missing is/was the chain reaction and fire ball they: NASA, hoped for. And for the BILLIONTH time I am/have presented what NASA hoped to accomplish...not what I want to accomplish. I have already stated how RIDICULOUS the whole matter is in even desiring to ignite a gas giant. Maybe if you spent more time reading my post instead of jumping to dumb conclusions a lot of unnecessary typing could have been saved. Nonetheless I have already addressed the issue of igniting a gas giant and how the chemistry, and physical differences between jupiter/saturn are different than earth and thereby what occurs readily on earth can and will not occur on these planets. Go back and read the posts from the beginning of the thread...

...this seems to be the basis of your misconceptions.

You don't understand the process by which a gaseous body bcomes a star; or the process by which a star "burns"; you also don't understand the difference between nuclear and chemical reactions.

If you'd like to make a scientific argument, I'd gladly comment on it.


The Luke

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2010, 11:44:25 PM »
...this seems to be the basis of your misconceptions.

You don't understand the process by which a gaseous body bcomes a star; or the process by which a star "burns"; you also don't understand the difference between nuclear and chemical reactions.

If you'd like to make a scientific argument, I'd gladly comment on it.


The Luke
Ok, I'm still lost.  You're saying Samson is saying it's possible but I though Samson was saying it wasn't possible.  I don't get it.  What the hell is going on here.

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2010, 12:03:05 AM »
I think samson is arguing that people at NASA are actually trying to do this.

I reckon the guys at NASA have taken a science class or two.



The Luke

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2010, 12:03:05 AM »
Samson...

Yes or No.

Do you think it's possible to turn Jupiter or Saturn into a Sun?

Yes or No.

Do you think people at NASA think it's possible to Jupiter or Saturn into a Sun?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2010, 12:06:44 AM »
I think samson is arguing that people at NASA are actually trying to do this.

I reckon the guys at NASA have taken a science class or two.



The Luke
But arn't you saying Samson thinks it's possible?  The whole Jupiter to Sun deal?

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2010, 12:15:11 AM »
But arn't you saying Samson thinks it's possible?  The whole Jupiter to Sun deal?

...I think he thought it was possible till I joined this thread.

The guy uses articles from Project Camelot as supportig references for fuck's sake.


I think it's funnier he thinks anyone would use 70 lbs of plutonium in a nuke, that's 60 lbs over the maximum practical weight. How big would that warhead be? 50 tons?


The Luke

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2010, 12:20:33 AM »
Just re-watching 2001 for the hell of it.  Didn't notice this before, but Kubrick is probably the only person to get silence in space right.  there's a scene in a total vacuum where it goes totally silent until pressure is attained.  All other movies I've seen have sound in space.  Would that be correct Luke?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2010, 12:22:13 AM »
...I think he thought it was possible till I joined this thread.

The guy uses articles from Project Camelot as supportig references for fuck's sake.


I think it's funnier he thinks anyone would use 70 lbs of plutonium in a nuke, that's 60 lbs over the maximum practical weight. How big would that warhead be? 50 tons?


The Luke
maybe I'm remembering wrong, but in a past thread on this, I think we all thought it wasn't possible.  It was about 3 weeks ago or so.

How many lbs of plutonium do they have on the craft?



PS. just skimed the older thread.  Unless I missed it, I said it couldn't happen unless nature did it.  So I'm not sure what Samson thought?  I could have swore I read that he didn't think it was possible.  Maybe he can quote a post.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2010, 01:04:40 AM »
another question, wouldn't Titan be toast if Saturn turned into a sun.  I know it's about 3 times farther out than our moon from us but still... ???

Fury

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2010, 07:09:41 AM »
This guy claimed to be an engineer and he has no scientific background. Yet again he has been exposed for the copy/pasting CT fraud that he is.

And it is hilarious. I can't believe someone tried to argue that these scientific laws are false because some idiotic website says so.  ::)

The Luke

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Re: The Lucifer Project...Crashing Cassini Into Saturn To Ignite It (update)
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2010, 08:16:12 AM »
Just to clear up some of the points raised:

-it's NOT possible to convert either Jupiter or Saturn into even a proto-brown dwarf failed star using any type of explosion; nuclear or otherwise. In fact there wouldn't be much chance of a stellar ignition even if Jupiter and Saturn collided head-on.

-there are probably only a hundred or so grams of plutonium on the Cassini craft, ie: the fuel in an ultra-long-life nuclear battery (wherein a voltage is maintained on the surface of a metal container housing radioactive material via beta+; beta-; alpha decay and ionising photons)

-you can't have more than about 2.2 kg (5 lbs) of any fissionable material in a single lump without it beginning to fission (neutron flux within the material becomes sufficient to sustain a self-propogating fission chain). Any amount of fissionable material exceeding this critical mass simply goes BOOM!

-plutonium is not used in nuclear bombs for anything other than the trigger mechanism; no more than five pounds per trigger piece (usually much, much less). So 50 lbs of plutonium in a warhead would mean at least 10 trigger pieces which must all be compressed simultaneously (by shaped explosive charges) requiring the coordinated collision of all trigger pieces at supersonic speeds within a fraction of a millisecond. You'd have better odds attempting to fire ten high velocity bullets at each other in such a way that all the individual bullets collided to form neat ball of lead.

-no, there is no sound in space. Sound is a longitudinal vibrational wave, which requires a medium through which to propogate: either solid, liquid or gas. In space, no one can hear you scream... Ripley.

-yes, ALL of Jupiter's/Saturn's moons would probably be vapourised if Jupiter/Saturn converted into a star. If memory serves, the miracle of the 2010 Roy Schneider movie was the manipulation of Jupiter directly into a white dwarf star by an extra terrestrial intelligence (the Monoliths). Normally white dwarves are an end stage of larger stars which undergo decay.

-Titan might be three times further out than our moon (Luna), but that's just 750k miles (our moon being 250k from us). Light travels at 186k miles PER SECOND... so our moon is only 1.3 light-seconds away; and Titan is only 4 light-seconds from Saturn. But putting this in perspective, the Earth is a full eight and a half light-MINUTES from the sun.

-if Saturn somehow conveted into a 6,000 K yellow star (like our sun), Titan would be vapourised four seconds later. Even Mercury is a full two and half light-minutes from the sun.

-if Saturn was somehow converted into a white dwarf, even then Titan would be in trouble as a brand new white dwarf has a surface temperature of 100,000 K and takes billions and billions of years to cool to the temperature of our own yellow sun.

-if somehow, magically, Saturn could be converted into an old, old dim reddish-coloured white dwarf remnant much cooler than our sun... Titan is still too close at only 4 light-seconds distance.


This whole argument is what physicists term: "Not even wrong"



The Luke