A Cool Dorian Video

[NarcissisticDeity]

apparently you're the one with comprehension problems. I will make this easy since you seem to have difficulty grasping my question.

you argue that Dorian had better conditioning and balance than Ronnie.

so why do Peter and Shawn feel a 20 lbs heavier Dorian would be necessary to compete with 01 ASC Ronnie?

why does he need 20 more lbs if he already has better conditioning and balance? (according to you)

in other words, why do they feel 01 ASC Ronnie may be the best ever if he's 20 lbs lighter with worse conditioning and balance? lol

either they don't know what the hell they're talking about or you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You can't both be right.

They didn't say he needed an extra 20 pounds it doesn't have so much to do with the weight as it does the shape I explained this to you but Mr Comprehension problem glossed over it , you're hyperfocusing on the weight as opposed to the shape aspect

In fact Dorian said that if he competed against Ronnie he would choose his 1995 Olympia form and he also said he was better conditioned and better balanced directly compared to a heavier Ronnie

I personally think Dorian looks his best in those black & whites because of the above mentioned shape as well as nothing is torn and for all intent & purposes he has NO flaws even his arms are huge

[NarcissisticDeity]

that means 31 posts of yours contain mistakes. lol. Obviously your posts aren't perfect.

hate to break it to you, flower boy, but anyone with a brain who reads our exchanges will see that I have thoroughly dismantled your argument.

that means 31 posts of yours contain mistakes. lol. Obviously your posts aren't perfect.

nonsense , I honestly don't recall doing that before so you're full of shit

hate to break it to you, flower boy, but anyone with a brain who reads our exchanges will see that I have thoroughly dismantled your argument.

with what? flawed logic and weak arguments? even this response is more weak argument , ad hominem attack ( flower boy ) appeal to numbers ( anyone with a brain ) and delusion ( dismantled my argument )

YOU have no argument , you don't even know what great conditioning is never mind be able to ascertain it through two entirely different mediums on the internet LMFAO when pushed on your bullshit you tried diversion , subterfuge and personal attacks onto of denying the experts , you're in way , way over your head boy and you keep trying to run with the big dogs but always fall by the wayside

You just complained about the guys still being at it and where are you?  Neo try reading a few books on the subject before you attempt at trying to act like you know what you're talking about I would recommend Arnold Schwarzenegger's Modern Encyclopedia on Bodybuilding I bought my first copy in 1986 and but it wasn't the modern and updated version which I have as well and good luck.

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

this is a no brainer. ND is wrong as always.

2001 AC ronnie crushes dorian easily. even if he is 10 pounds lighter:

Yup and Ronnie 99 is his best and Ronnie has better detailed calves than Dorian and Ronnie dominated in 2001 by losing and 1998 wasn't close and Shawn mentions Dorian's loss of hardness and Dorian is the most overrated bodybuilder of all time , shall I continue?

[NeoSeminole]

And you concede your opinion is biased , ignorant and the result of inaccurate means.

haha, how is my argument biased and ignorant when it's based on fact? I'm using objective, visual criteria which anyone can use to arrive at the same observation. Now contrast this with your argument which rests entirely on the assumption that one man's opinion is correct.

yet we're supposed to take it over someone as well respected as McGough. Gotcha   did you measure them? NO did you hycrostatically weigh them? NO yet this didn't prevent you from spouting off your nonsense , I see others are bound to this criteria with the sole exception of yourself thanks for conceding you're an idiot and a hypocrite but I figured this out long ago

I honestly couldn't care less if Dorian had better conditioning. The only reason I entertain your nonsense is to show the hypocrisy of you picking which quotes to accept or ignore. You cling to any quote which supports your belief that Dorian had better conditioning yet ignore the myriad of quotes that say Ronnie is the better bodybuilder. Each time you default to a Dorian quote praising his conditioning, all I have to do is post 10 more announcing Ronnie as the greatest bodybuilder of all-time to expose how weak your argument is.

subterfuge ...you changed my quotes around now you're reduced to lying , what was that about desperate again?

I quoted you verbatim, dumbass. Go back and read your own post. I even took a screen capture in case you tried to edit your post to make it seem like I changed your words. You can't talk yourself out of this one.

[NeoSeminole]

does anyone else think ND is an idiot for not understanding what I'm asking?

They didn't say he needed an extra 20 pounds it doesn't have so much to do with the weight as it does the shape I explained this to you but Mr Comprehension problem glossed over it , you're hyperfocusing on the weight as opposed to the shape aspect

wrong, they both said 01 ASC Ronnie is pretty much untouchable except by 93 pre-contest Dorian.

you argue that Dorian has better conditioning and balance. So why would he also need to outweigh Ronnie by 20 lbs to compete with him?

why didn't they pick 93 Mr. O Dorian or 95 Mr. O Dorian? Now do you follow what I'm saying?

[NeoSeminole]

nonsense , I honestly don't recall doing that before so you're full of shit

another one of your lies?

[NarcissisticDeity]

haha, how is my argument biased and ignorant when it's based on fact? I'm using objective, visual criteria which anyone can use to arrive at the same observation. Now contrast this with your argument which rests entirely on the assumption that one man's opinion is correct.

I honestly couldn't care less if Dorian had better conditioning. The only reason I entertain your nonsense is to show the hypocrisy of you picking which quotes to accept or ignore. You cling to any quote which supports your belief that Dorian had better conditioning yet ignore the myriad of quotes that say Ronnie is the better bodybuilder. Each time you default to a Dorian quote praising his conditioning, all I have to do is post 10 more announcing Ronnie as the greatest bodybuilder of all-time to expose how weak your argument is.

I quoted you verbatim, dumbass. Go back and read your own post. I even took a screen capture in case you tried to edit your post to make it seem like I changed your words. You can't talk yourself out of this one.

haha, how is my argument biased and ignorant when it's based on fact? I'm using objective, visual criteria which anyone can use to arrive at the same observation. Now contrast this with your argument which rests entirely on the assumption that one man's opinion is correct.

How is biased? when you're coming to conclusions based on inaccurate means , how is it ignorant? you still don't know what conditioning is and isn't. You're NOT objective you you're willing to gloss over facts visual facts? pictures and video screencaps from different sources is NOT objective or accurate , in order to form an opinion you would have to know what you're talking about and you don't

My opinion is not simply based on a single opinion NOT true I posted quotes from many well respected experts on the subject including Dorian Yates who is an IFBB judge . I wouldn't be so presumptuous to claim I know who is better condition comparing a magazine scan to a video screen capture on the fucking internet despite never once seeing either live and in person and telling the people who have that they're wrong and you are right , that alone proves you're ignorant , biased and stupid especially when you add the fact Yates looks eons better in person than media a point you're willing to overlook

My argument is I can't fucking tell who is better via such inaccurate means so I'll take it on the authority of a eyewitnesses and a very well respected one at that who is really objective and honest  , on an IFBB judge as well as others , this my stupid little friend is really being objective and to be fair on many times I've said Ronnie may have equaled Dorian for that density & dryness albeit lighter and I don't have to but I like to entertain points for the sake of argument

I honestly couldn't care less if Dorian had better conditioning. The only reason I entertain your nonsense is to show the hypocrisy of you picking which quotes to accept or ignore. You cling to any quote which supports your belief that Dorian had better conditioning yet ignore the myriad of quotes that say Ronnie is the better bodybuilder. Each time you default to a Dorian quote praising his conditioning, all I have to do is post 10 more announcing Ronnie as the greatest bodybuilder of all-time to expose how weak your argument

Bullshit you fought it tooth and nail and you really do believe Ronnie is better conditioned because he has more visible striations , separations etc on media , you've gone to great lengths to deny the experts and that McGough crushed you and your bullshit in one fell swoop

First, I didn't disagree with Peter McGough's claim that Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian.

again your quote

I'm sorry but Peter McGough is an idiot if he thinks 01 ASC Ronnie never surpassed Dorian's conditioning.


I'll agree Ronnie is the greatest bodybuilder of all-time even Dorian himself said he may be , it doesn't effect the debate one iota , statistically Ronnie is which has NOTHING to do with conditioning and nothing to do with Dorian , he never faced Dorian for ANY of his wins and never beat Dorian .

I quoted you verbatim, dumbass. Go back and read your own post. I even took a screen capture in case you tried to edit your post to make it seem like I changed your words. You can't talk yourself out of this

WRONG and I'll beat you to the screencap notice you responded to me " blah blah blah " oppppsss that's NOT what I typed you changed it because you didn't want to respond to my post  see attached


You have no argument to speak of , NONE what so ever I'll give you credit for trying it's more than Hulkster does but you fail as always ad hominem attacks , subterfuge , semantics , appeals to numbers , diversion , bias , ignorance .  I mean you use every single faulty argument and keep posting out of some selfish pride thinking to somehow how saves you from looking like a compete idiot and it doesn't . You just came in here bitching about how you guys are still at it while trying to impress people with your resume ( not the first time ) and where are you? right back in another Yates thread trolling nothing more but keep posting and I'll keep exposing how ignorant you are.

[NarcissisticDeity]

does anyone else think ND is an idiot for not understanding what I'm asking?

wrong, they both said 01 ASC Ronnie is pretty much untouchable except by 93 pre-contest Dorian.

you argue that Dorian has better conditioning and balance. So why would he also need to outweigh Ronnie by 20 lbs to compete with him?

why didn't they pick 93 Mr. O Dorian or 95 Mr. O Dorian? Now do you follow what I'm saying?

Why do you keep asking a question you already have the answer to? Dorian still has better conditioning & balance no matter what year I can only speak for McGough because he's elaborated on it


Peter McGough

He was 269 pounds of rock-hard shapely (yes, shapely) head-to-toe muscle. I had never seen anything like it. It was simply the best physique I had ever seen up to that point.


Peter McGough Ironage
June 06 , 2003

The later photos were taken in his gym about seven weeks before the 1993 Olympia. He'd just finished a chest workout and he weighed 269 pounds. If I had to rate my most memorable bodybuilding moment the sight of Dorian that day would be neck-and-neck with the first time I saw Sergio. He hit the first shot, double biceps, and I walked up to him and said, "Don't worry Dorian. You have plenty of time to fix this. All is not lost."
I told him he could walk on to the Olympia stage in that condition weighing 269 pounds, untanned, with his socks on and still win.

For the 1993 Olympia he came in at 257 pounds and took straight firsts. We discussed it many times, and he sort of agreed that six weeks out was his best look, but knowing that the criteria was "condition, condition, condition" he  always dropped bodyweight  and lost -- in my opinion -- muscle roundness.


Dorian's shape and muscle roundness was BETTER in the precontest pics his delts are bigger and rounder , his lats have better sweep his arms are huge I personally think it's the best he's ever looked

[NeoSeminole]

How is biased? when you're coming to conclusions based on inaccurate means , how is it ignorant? you still don't know what conditioning is and isn't. You're NOT objective you you're willing to gloss over facts visual facts? pictures and video screencaps from different sources is NOT objective or accurate , in order to form an opinion you would have to know what you're talking about and you don't

now you're really losing touch with reality. Pics and videos from different sources that corroborate my argument are inaccurate, yet they are accurate enough for Peter McGough to change his opinion about pre-contest Dorian.

also, I'm using objective criteria which anyone can use yet my argument is "biased" and "not objective?" hahaha, sure.

basically, your argument amounts to this: "I don't really have a logical argument so I'm gonna make up anything I can to discredit yours."

WRONG and I'll beat you to the screencap notice you responded to me " blah blah blah " oppppsss that's NOT what I typed you changed it because you didn't want to respond to my post see attached

<yawn> go back and read posts 106 & 107, dumbass.

[NeoSeminole]

Why do you keep asking a question you already have the answer to? Dorian still has better conditioning & balance no matter what year I can only speak for McGough because he's elaborated on it

my god, you are illiterate. If Dorian already has better conditioning and balance, then why do Peter McGough and Shawn Perine feel the only version that could touch 01 ASC Ronnie is a pre-contest Dorian that outweighs him by 20 lbs? They both specifically mention Dorian 6 weeks out from the 93 Mr. Olympia. It's like you're purposely avoiding an answer b/c it would prove that Dorian didn't have better conditioning or balance at the 93 or 95 Mr. O.

[NarcissisticDeity]

now you're really losing touch with reality. Pics and videos from different sources that corroborate my argument are inaccurate, yet they are accurate enough for Peter McGough to change his opinion about pre-contest Dorian.

also, I'm using objective criteria which anyone can use yet my argument is "biased" and "not objective?" hahaha, sure.

basically, your argument amounts to this: "I don't really have a logical argument so I'm gonna make up anything I can to discredit yours."

<yawn> go back and read posts 106 & 107, dumbass.

now you're really losing touch with reality. Pics and videos from different sources that corroborate my argument are inaccurate, yet they are accurate enough for Peter McGough to change his opinion about pre-contest Dorian.

also, I'm using objective criteria which anyone can use yet my argument is "biased" and "not objective?" hahaha, sure.

Sighs can you possibly be that dense? FYI Neo McGough was present at the unveiling of Yates physique at 269 pounds , FYI Neo McGough was at the 2001 Arnold Classic in fact he was there for every Yates win in fact he was there for every Coleman win ! When you learn ? he was there YOU weren't EVER you can not under any circumstances comment on who is better conditioned unless you seen them both live and in person , pics & video pale in comparison

Neo you keep glossing over the fact Dorian doesn't look as good in pics or video so to try and attempt to decide who is better knowing this proves you can't be objective or unbiased

basically, your argument amounts to this: "I don't really have a logical argument so I'm gonna make up anything I can to discredit yours."

I have an argument it it doesn't hinge on weak positions , my argument is Dorian is better conditioned and I have proven this from first hand witnesses seeing as I was there NO diversion needed , no personal attacks , no subterfuge , my argument hasn't budged in years , Dorian would beat Ronnie because he's bigger , harder , drier and better balanced and unlike you I have experts to back up my claims

 

<yawn> go back and read posts 106 & 107, dumbass.

yawn nothing you thought I was talking about something else and got excited for a moment  I wasn't referring to that and my point is proven YOU changed my quote because you were looking for a way out like you do often you respond to what you want gloss over the things you don't textbook example of a confused and defeated boy 

[NarcissisticDeity]

my god, you are illiterate. If Dorian already has better conditioning and balance, then why do Peter McGough and Shawn Perine feel the only version that could touch 01 ASC Ronnie is a pre-contest Dorian that outweighs him by 20 lbs? They both specifically mention Dorian 6 weeks out from the 93 Mr. Olympia. It's like you're purposely avoiding an answer b/c it would prove that Dorian didn't have better conditioning or balance at the 93 or 95 Mr. O.

MORON I answered you SHAPE & ROUNDNESS hello are you high dude? seriously? Dorian ALWAYS has better conditioning & balance than Ronnie ANY year that wont change , muscle length doesn't change , leg length doesn't change , neither does torso length etc

SHAPE & ROUNDNESS which Dorian tended to diet away thinking he was getting better conditioned when in fact he admitted in hindsight all he was doing was burning off muscle

[Hulkster]

does anyone else think ND is an idiot for not understanding what I'm asking?

 ND has always had serious trouble with reading comprehension and simple logic.

this is nothing new.

and he plays dumb too.

if you know that the answer to a question will hurt your argument, simply pretend you don't understand the question and therefore avoid answering it.

its one of the oldest (and saddest) tricks in the book for idiots on the losing side of an argument..

[Royal Lion]

this is a no brainer. ND is wrong as always.

2001 AC ronnie crushes dorian easily. even if he is 10 pounds lighter:

I disagree entirely.  Both look great in the pics you posted and it would be very, very close if the competed.

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND has always had serious trouble with reading comprehension and simple logic.

this is nothing new.

and he plays dumb too.

if you know that the answer to a question will hurt your argument, simply pretend you don't understand the question and therefore avoid answering it.

its one of the oldest (and saddest) tricks in the book for idiots on the losing side of an argument..

irony alert you're one of the dumbest guys on here

You've denied and contradicted every single expert , made up quotes and used worked pics what was that again about the losing side of the argument? 

[NeoSeminole]

hahaha, ND has already lost. Not only is he contradicting himself and claiming that shape alone is as important as being 20 lbs heavier with better conditioning and balance, but now he's reduced to lying.

[NarcissisticDeity]

hahaha, ND has already lost. Not only is he contradicting himself and claiming that shape alone is as important as being 20 lbs heavier with better conditioning and balance, but now he's been reduced to lying.

Still can't grasp what I said huh?  

contradict much? pot meet mr kettle

First, I didn't disagree with Peter McGough's claim that Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian.

again your quote

I'm sorry but Peter McGough is an idiot if he thinks 01 ASC Ronnie never surpassed Dorian's conditioning.

You have the audacity to ask how does McGough come to the conclusion whose better conditioned without hydrostatically weighing them both you came to your ' conclusion ' without doing the same

hypocrite much?

[NeoSeminole]

Sighs can you possibly be that dense? FYI Neo McGough was present at the unveiling of Yates physique at 269 pounds , FYI Neo McGough was at the 2001 Arnold Classic in fact he was there for every Yates win in fact he was there for every Coleman win ! When you learn ? he was there YOU weren't EVER you can not under any circumstances comment on who is better conditioned unless you seen them both live and in person , pics & video pale in comparison

Peter McGough saw 93 pre-contest Dorian and 01 ASC Ronnie, and thought Ronnie was better.

it wasn't until the video - the same means which you claim is "inaccurate" - of the photoshoot came out that Peter reconsidered.

so which is it, dumbass? If seeing them in person is more accurate, then Ronnie is better since he is on record for saying that. If videos are good enough to change one's mind 16 yrs later, then they are good enough to judge physiques. It's one or the other. Either way, you're f*cked.

Neo you keep glossing over the fact Dorian doesn't look as good in pics or video so to try and attempt to decide who is better knowing this proves you can't be objective or unbiased

you keep glossing over the fact that many reputable bodybuilding insiders (you know? like Peter McGough whom you love to cite as "proof") are on record for saying that Ronnie at his best is unbeatable.

I have an argument it it doesn't hinge on weak positions , my argument is Dorian is better conditioned and I have proven this from first hand witnesses seeing as I was there NO diversion needed , no personal attacks , no subterfuge , my argument hasn't budged in years , Dorian would beat Ronnie because he's bigger , harder , drier and better balanced and unlike you I have experts to back up my claims

you don't have an argument. You can't have an argument without evidence to support it. An empty statement like "Dorian is better conditioned" is merely an opinion that you're trying to pass off as fact. I've asked you many times what objective, visual criteria are you using. So far, no answer.

yawn nothing you thought I was talking about something else and got excited for a moment I wasn't referring to that and my point is proven YOU changed my quote because you were looking for a way out like you do often you respond to what you want gloss over the things you don't textbook example of a confused and defeated boy

haha, you can't talk your way out of this. You accused me of getting desperate immediately after I quoted you as saying your statement is based on wishful thinking. The only way your defense would be believable is if you admit you like to reply to older posts by quoting and responding to the most recent one, in which case that would make you a retard.

[NeoSeminole]

MORON I answered you SHAPE & ROUNDNESS hello are you high dude? seriously? Dorian ALWAYS has better conditioning & balance than Ronnie ANY year that wont change , muscle length doesn't change , leg length doesn't change , neither does torso length etc

so according to you, Ronnie's shape is so superior that it would defeat a 10 lbs heavier Dorian with better conditioning and balance (e.g. 93 & 95 Mr O)?

that's basically what you're saying b/c I've asked this repeatedly in different ways and you've reproduced the same answer.

this puts to rest the question of who would win between 01 ASC Ronnie and 93 and 95 Mr. Olympia Dorian.

[NeoSeminole]

ND, keep drinking my milkshake. Maybe the extra protein will make you smarter. lol

[NarcissisticDeity]

Peter McGough saw 93 pre-contest Dorian and 01 ASC Ronnie, and thought Ronnie was better.

it wasn't until the video - the same means which you claim is "inaccurate" - of the photoshoot came out that Peter reconsidered.

so which is it, dumbass? If seeing them in person is more accurate, then Ronnie is better since he is on record for saying that. If videos are good enough to change one's mind 16 yrs later, then they are good enough to judge physiques. It's one or the other. Either way, you're f*cked.

you keep glossing over the fact that many reputable bodybuilding insiders (you know? like Peter McGough whom you love to cite as "proof") are on record for saying that Ronnie at his best is unbeatable.

you don't have an argument. You can't have an argument without evidence to support it. An empty statement like "Dorian is better conditioned" is merely an opinion that you're trying to pass off as fact. I've asked you many times what objective, visual criteria are you using. So far, no answer.

haha, you can't talk your way out of this. You accused me of getting desperate immediately after I quoted you as saying your statement is based on wishful thinking. The only way your defense would be believable is if you admit you like to reply to older posts by quoting and responding to the most recent one, in which case that would make you a retard.

Peter McGough saw 93 pre-contest Dorian and 01 ASC Ronnie, and thought Ronnie was better.

it wasn't until the video - the same means which you claim is "inaccurate" - of the photoshoot came out that Peter reconsidered.

so which is it, dumbass? If seeing them in person is more accurate, then Ronnie is better since he is on record for saying that. If videos are good enough to change one's mind 16 yrs later, then they are good enough to judge physiques. It's one or the other. Either way, you're f*cked.

You're scrambling for anything out of desperation and this is what you come up with? Neo the difference between how he came to his conclusion and you is he saw them live and in person to begin with and you never did   the difference Neo is he knows what great conditioning is you don't   the difference Neo is Dorian looks better in person than he does in pics and video  

Dorian who is an IFBB judge has said specific to this debate he's better conditioned than Ronnie he's an IFBB judge you're contradicting many professionals you thought you had something with this bullshit

Bob Chick GetBig 10 - 05 - 2007

THis is why pictures will never replace actually being there, in person and close to the stage....


Neo you're the one that's fucked kid  

you keep glossing over the fact that many reputable bodybuilding insiders (you know? like Peter McGough whom you love to cite as "proof") are on record for saying that Ronnie at his best is unbeatable.

McGough's quote has been amended   and you Neo did a piss-poor job of deflecting from my statement

you don't have an argument. You can't have an argument without evidence to support it. An empty statement like "Dorian is better conditioned" is merely an opinion that you're trying to pass off as fact. I've asked you many times what objective, visual criteria are you using. So far, no answer.

Hahahahahaha an empty statement confirmed by an IFBB judge and multiple eyewitnesses , your projecting your own failure to provide evidence you posted pics and typed ' see ' NOT proof stupid. I told you before I'm not claiming he's better conditioned I'm repeating those who said it , I don't have the audacity to claim for certain who is because I wasn't there so I'll take it on an authority of people who were , pictures and video are far to limited to come up with a definitive answer especially considered the many variables which you're willing to overlook ( bias , ignorance , stupidity )

haha, you can't talk your way out of this. You accused me of getting desperate immediately after I quoted you as saying your statement is based on wishful thinking. The only way your defense would be believable is if you admit you like to reply to older posts by quoting and responding to the most recent one, in which case that would make you a retard.

You changed my quote to ' blah blah blah ' and never responded to my original quote and it was NOT the one you posted , you changed my entire quote to ' blah blah blah ' out of desperation this is a fact.

[NarcissisticDeity]

so according to you, Ronnie's shape is so superior that it would defeat a 10 lbs heavier Dorian with better conditioning and balance (e.g. 93 & 95 Mr O)?

that's basically what you're saying b/c I've asked this repeatedly in different ways and you've reproduced the same answer.

this puts to rest the question of who would win between 01 ASC Ronnie and 93 and 95 Mr. Olympia Dorian.

Presuming to speak for me , I answered your question already kid  maybe you can change my words around like before 

Dorian 1993/95 is still better conditioned , carries more muscular bulk and has better balance  IFBB judges like that

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, keep drinking my milkshake. Maybe the extra protein will make you smarter. lol

Homo-projection , you're the one who wants me to ' swallow your milkshake ' I never said that , ever more of you changing my words around  what's on your mind kid? 

You're getting your ass kicked in this thread and now are reduced to this nonsense like I said you're to proud to admit you're owned and think if you keep responding you don't look as stupid but let me do you a favor you're lost and looking for a way out and this is all you have left , keep trying.

[Hulkster]

Dorian 1993/95 is still better conditioned , carries more muscular bulk and has better balance   IFBB judges like that

but in 95, also has a horribly deformed left arm, poor quads, wide waist, and much uglier muscle shape than Ronnie.


all of the above applies in 93 except for the torn arm part.

judges hate that .

[Hulkster]

^
notice how a not even in contest shape 99 ronnie crushes a supposedly best ever shape 95 dorian LOL

93 dorian is the only way to go.

95 had that horrid left arm..