Author Topic: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return  (Read 1464 times)

kcballer

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Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« on: January 12, 2010, 11:16:57 AM »
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126325594634725459.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

Even when the U.S. labor market finally starts adding more workers than it loses, many of the unemployed will find that the types of jobs they once had simply don't exist anymore.
Employment in Selected Industries

See how many jobs were gained or lost in selected industries from November 2007 to November 2009.

    * Video: Finding a Job in Uncertain Times

The downturn that started in December 2007 delivered a body blow to U.S. workers. In two years, the economy shed 7.2 million jobs, pushing the jobless rate from 5% to 10%, according to the Labor Department. The severity of the recession is reshaping the labor market. Some lost jobs will come back. But some are gone forever, going the way of typewriter repairmen and streetcar operators.

Many of the jobs created by the booms in the housing and credit markets, for example, have likely been permanently erased by the subsequent bust.

"The tremendous amount of economic activity associated with housing, I can't see that coming back," says Harvard University economist Lawrence Katz. "That was a very unhealthy part of the economy."
Reshaping the Job Market
[Reshaping the job market]

Read more profiles of workers in different industries.
[Tim Winters ] Tim Winter

Tim Winters, Aspen, Colo. Age 39
Hotel Director Forced to Give Up Own Home

After getting laid off in March from his job as operations director at a small hotel, Tim Winters could no longer afford his $1,200 a month apartment. He has been living at family members' homes, an ironic twist for someone who often used to stay for free at hotels when he traveled. "It takes a lot of understanding and time to get used to living with other people again," says Mr. Winters, who started his career in hospitality in 1996. Mr. Winters says he has applied for approximately 170 hotel-management positions and has had 14 interviews, but no job offers yet.
[Daryl Jones ] Daryl Jones

Daryl Jones, Tulsa, Okla. Age 45
Economy Chips Away at Cabinet Maker's Business

Daryl Jones misses the smiles that would appear on clients' faces after receiving the one-of-a-kind cabinets, bedroom sets and other wood furniture he built by hand while running his home-based business. But sales plummeted in recent years, prompting the third-generation craftsman to take a job building cabinets for corporate jets to make ends meet. Still, Mr. Jones is optimistic that one day he will return to his custom woodworking full time. "Once the economy bounces back and people feel comfortable again spending money, then things will start picking back up."
[Jeff Walker] Jeff Walker

Jeff Walker Brighton, Mich. Age 53
Auto Industry Executive Goes Back to School

Jeff Walker, a former auto industry executive, doesn't mind being among the oldest students at Eastern Michigan University. "I'm happier than just being unemployed and looking for a job," he says. In April, Mr. Walker lost his job as a vice president of operations at a small auto equipment supplier in Brighton, Mich., where he had worked for 22 years. Mr. Walker is studying technology management in pursuit of the college degree he started but never finished after high school. Now, he says, he just wants to "get out of manufacturing."
[Duane Dittbrenner ] Duane Dittbrenner

Duane Dittbrenner, Cleburne, Texas Age 50
Veteran Trucker Worries About Paying the Bills

Duane Dittbrenner was laid off last month from his job at Arrow Trucking Co. He has been struggling to find another trucking job in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. "Where I live, most of it is hazmat and tankers," says Mr. Dittbrenner, who has hauled big rigs for the past 20 years throughout the U.S. Mr. Dittbrenner says he is worried he won't be able to pay next month's bills if a new job doesn't come along. "It's just getting out there and pounding the pavement," he says. "I'll have one soon. All you can do is be optimistic."
[Debra Allicock ] Michael Benabib

Debra Allicock, Brooklyn, N.Y. Age 42
Growing Demand, but Low Pay, for Home Health

Debra Allicock migrated to New York from Guyana in 2000 and took a job as a home-health aide, helping the elderly with errands, meals and light housekeeping. She says the relationships she gains are what motivates her to work 12-hour days despite low pay and no medical insurance. "You get to get very close and attached with them," she says of her clients. Ms. Allicock says her services are in high demand. "Why go to a nursing home when you can stay in your home surrounded by everything you love?" she says. "Maybe one day someone is going to return that favor for me."
[Richard Hawthorne ] Richard Hawthorne

Richard Hawthorne, Laguna Beach, Calif. Age 58
Real Estate Executive Tries a New Path

Richard Hawthorne has been out of work since June 2007, when he was laid off from a small commercial real estate investment firm where he was director of development. "In past downturns I've done well, but this downturn has me stumped," he says. Mr. Hawthorne enjoyed his more than 30 years in commercial real estate. "There was something new and totally unpredictable each and every day to solve," he says. But now, tired of being told he is overqualified for jobs in his field, he is launching a business advising financial institutions on how to eliminate investment property debt.

-- Interviews by Sarah E. Needleman

Unhealthy but a boon for men without a college education. One in three jobs, or six million total, have been lost in the manufacturing sector since 1997, the last year the sector posted job gains. The upsurge in construction jobs accompanying the housing boom provided these workers in manufacturing with an opportunity to earn decent wages.

Now that door, too, has shut. With 1.6 million jobs lost over the last two years, the construction sector has accounted for more than a fifth of the jobs lost since the recession began.

For more highly educated workers, finance may no longer offer as many high-paying jobs as it has in the past. Thomas Philippon, an economist at New York University's Stern School of Business, estimates that the financial sector's share of the economy was nearly 20% larger than it should have been. Since the start of the recession, the financial sector has lost 548,000 jobs, or 6.6% of its work force. Mr. Philippon's estimate suggests there will be further pressure on financial jobs.

In other areas of the labor market, the recession accelerated job losses that were probably coming anyway. In November, there were 36% fewer people working in record shops than two years earlier, according to the Labor Department. There were 23% fewer people working at directory and mailing list publishers, and 46% fewer at photofinishing establishments. Those are jobs that, with the advent of mp3 recordings, Google and digital photography, were likely disappearing anyway.

But as the recession hurt already ailing businesses, workers were forced into a sudden adjustment rather than the gradual one they would have otherwise faced. The recession also provided companies with an opportunity to cut jobs no longer as critical as they once were. That may be particularly true of the secretaries and mailroom clerks that advances in information technology have made less necessary. The ranks of people doing office and administrative work have fallen 10.1% since the recession began.

"Those are the production jobs of the information age, and they're being to a substantial extent automated," says Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist David Autor.

The permanent loss of many jobs may keep the labor market from fully recovering for a long time to come.

Prior to the 1990s, jobs rebounded quickly once recessions ended. Payrolls fell by nearly three million in the deep downturn that extended from July 1981 to November 1982. But by the start of 1983, the economy was creating jobs again, and by the end of 1983, the U.S. job count had exceeded its old peak.

That was because more of the job losses were essentially temporary, with manufacturers and the like letting workers go with the implicit expectation that they would be hiring them back once the worst was over.

But since the early 1990s, jobs have been slower to recover from recession. After the 2001 downturn ended, job losses continued for nearly two years. It wasn't until 2005 that the job count returned to its prerecession high.

Productivity-enhancing technology and competition from low-wage countries like China made more job losses permanent. And it took time for new jobs to be created and for workers to acquire the skills needed to do them. In the wake of a far deeper recession, creating new jobs and retraining workers to do them could take even longer.

It is anyone's guess what those jobs will be. The Labor Department has done little more than extrapolate from recent trends. It expects growth in areas like health care, which has been one of the few bright spots. Given the exigencies of an aging population, that seems a fair bet.

One could also make the case that the U.S. is shifting from a consumer nation to a nation of producers, and that will lead to a resurgence in technology and high-tech manufacturing jobs.

But Harvard's Mr. Katz warns that past experience suggests such conjecture is likely fruitless. "One thing we've learned is that when we attempt to forecast jobs 10 or 15 years out, we don't even get the categories right," he says.


See what i don't get is why people are so against the new green tech industry in light of these facts.  There will not be these jobs in recovery so what new jobs will there be?  The green tech industry can help bridge this gap especially in light of 1 in 5 working age males are out of work and there are 50% less job openings than two years ago.  Bring on the green tech and the plethora of jobs it can and will provide. 
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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2010, 11:31:06 AM »
We wont add jobs until Obama is gone and his policies are a distant memory.

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 11:37:17 AM »
We wont add jobs until Obama is gone and his policies are a distant memory.

Until and unless we adopt a pro-manufacturing, pro-middle class, strong dollar, anti-globalist agenda, this will get far worse. 

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 11:38:36 AM »
We wont add jobs until Obama is gone and his policies are a distant memory.

This is a blanket statement which mathmatically speaking will come true Billy regardless of any policy changes.  The American economy is now short about 10.5 million jobs – 7.2 million lost in a year and another 2.7 million needed for new people entering the labour force.  If America were to suddenly regain the robust economy it had three years ago, it would take until 2018 for pre-recession employment levels to be attained.  SO Obama could do EVERYTHING under the sun and still not regain what was lost, that is the depth of the issue we are facing.  This is why green tech is needed from a job creation standpoint.  It is a new field, one that can employ both high and low skill workers and one that could propel America back into the production country it once was.
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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2010, 11:44:23 AM »
This is a blanket statement which mathmatically speaking will come true Billy regardless of any policy changes.  The American economy is now short about 10.5 million jobs – 7.2 million lost in a year and another 2.7 million needed for new people entering the labour force.  If America were to suddenly regain the robust economy it had three years ago, it would take until 2018 for pre-recession employment levels to be attained.  SO Obama could do EVERYTHING under the sun and still not regain what was lost, that is the depth of the issue we are facing.  This is why green tech is needed from a job creation standpoint.  It is a new field, one that can employ both high and low skill workers and one that could propel America back into the production country it once was.

KC - I think most people know it will take a long time but that alone is not peoples' gripe with the govt and the leaders in charge. 

Its that we are pursuing policies that seem completely antithetical to any realy grownth in business. 

In my mind, correct me if I am wrong, we should be pursuing a pro-mfg agenda on all levels 24/7.   

kcballer

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2010, 11:45:04 AM »
Until and unless we adopt a pro-manufacturing, pro-middle class, strong dollar, anti-globalist agenda, this will get far worse. 

Hence Green Tech 333.  It is exportable to all countries, it will involve manufacturing and will include the middle class as a lot of jobs won't be high skilled positions.  Instead of the rust belt we'll have the green belt.

Mathematically Obama could do all that and more and still we won't be where we once were for a long time.  That is the fact we must al face.  Of course both parties will say it was the other one - Oh it was Bush era policies and republican softness on regulation, Oh no it was Clinton era changes to fanny and freddie and Obama stimulus that caused it, And on and on it will go.  Fact is neither party can do sh*t and we will have to wait years to see if the stimulus did/did not work because that's how long it takes to iron these things out.  In 10 years it might be seen as the best move or the worst.  Right now we can only speculate which is taking time away from Action.  And that Action should be used to push Green tech and get America going again.
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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2010, 11:52:45 AM »
Hence Green Tech 333.  It is exportable to all countries, it will involve manufacturing and will include the middle class as a lot of jobs won't be high skilled positions.  Instead of the rust belt we'll have the green belt.

Mathematically Obama could do all that and more and still we won't be where we once were for a long time.  That is the fact we must al face.  Of course both parties will say it was the other one - Oh it was Bush era policies and republican softness on regulation, Oh no it was Clinton era changes to fanny and freddie and Obama stimulus that caused it, And on and on it will go.  Fact is neither party can do sh*t and we will have to wait years to see if the stimulus did/did not work because that's how long it takes to iron these things out.  In 10 years it might be seen as the best move or the worst.  Right now we can only speculate which is taking time away from Action.  And that Action should be used to push Green tech and get America going again.

Like I have told you, if Green Tech can save people $ $ on their energy bills, and not involve more taxes, sign me up. 

However, if it involved destroying jobs in some sectors to hopefully create ones in others, I'm not for that at all.   

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 11:59:00 AM »
Like I have told you, if Green Tech can save people $ $ on their energy bills, and not involve more taxes, sign me up. 

However, if it involved destroying jobs in some sectors to hopefully create ones in others, I'm not for that at all.   

I don't see how it would.  You would just like something to complain about though whether it is good for the country or not is irrelevant to you.  As long as it helps you out the most and/or gives you something to post day in day out about then i guess you'll be happy or at least some semblance of happy.
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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 12:03:01 PM »
Obama is PURPOSELY doing everything he can to thwart any recovery.Anytime a politician thinks they can micro manage the economy dissaster follows.Every policy he has proposed or will propose is against the private sector.This man doesnt want more jobs,he wants less jobs.Less jobs mean more dependance on government,more dependance on government meand democrat rule.

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2010, 12:03:19 PM »
I don't see how it would.  You would just like something to complain about though whether it is good for the country or not is irrelevant to you.  As long as it helps you out the most and/or gives you something to post day in day out about then i guess you'll be happy or at least some semblance of happy.

No, if you can show me something like:

"333386, if we adopt this strategy on solar, your electric bill will go from $200.00 a month to $100.00 a month" show me.  

If instead you tell me we need to create a carbon market where GS will make billions of dollars and I am forced by law to retrofit my home to tht etune of thousands of dollars, than go kill yourself and screw off.  

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2010, 12:31:43 PM »
No, if you can show me something like:

"333386, if we adopt this strategy on solar, your electric bill will go from $200.00 a month to $100.00 a month" show me.  

If instead you tell me we need to create a carbon market where GS will make billions of dollars and I am forced by law to retrofit my home to tht etune of thousands of dollars, than go kill yourself and screw off.  

Why do you think a crisis has to be invented to implement this sort of shit? Green is just another feel good buzz word created by the envirowacko's to push their agenda. There has been talk of this since the 70's, 40 fucking years and still nothing that can replace oil as far as cost and ease of use.

Yeah global warming, over 2 feet of fucking snow this year already and the temp has not reached 32 degrees since Christmas day.
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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2010, 12:34:59 PM »
Why do you think a crisis has to be invented to implement this sort of shit? Green is just another feel good buzz word created by the envirowacko's to push their agenda. There has been talk of this since the 70's, 40 fucking years and still nothing that can replace oil as far as cost and ease of use.

Yeah global warming, over 2 feet of fucking snow this year already and the temp has not reached 32 degrees since Christmas day.

No kidding.  I am just triyng to get KC to see where I am coming from on this and what I believe to be most people.   

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2010, 07:29:02 PM »
Those who would think or believe Obama is doing everything to thwart America's recovery have been plugged into to the slant too long.  A recovery would cement the democrats for the next 20 years in public offices.  The problem is, it's too big of a problem and a quick full recovery is a pipe dream. 

In California, there are thousands upon thousands of families who bought homes from 2005-2007 who now owe 2-3 times the value of the house. It's like a economic Katrina hit the place.  Combine that with the lay offs and underemployment and it's no different than a natural disaster in many respects.


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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2010, 07:45:05 PM »
Those who would think or believe Obama is doing everything to thwart America's recovery have been plugged into to the slant too long.  A recovery would cement the democrats for the next 20 years in public offices.  The problem is, it's too big of a problem and a quick full recovery is a pipe dream. 

In California, there are thousands upon thousands of families who bought homes from 2005-2007 who now owe 2-3 times the value of the house. It's like a economic Katrina hit the place.  Combine that with the lay offs and underemployment and it's no different than a natural disaster in many respects.



Then whats the explanation? His policies make no sense when the economy is down. Hell they wouldn't make sense when the economy is up. He came into office with agenda and he has decided that he going to push it come hell or high water. The bait and switch is in full effect.
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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2010, 07:53:44 PM »
Then whats the explanation? His policies make no sense when the economy is down. Hell they wouldn't make sense when the economy is up. He came into office with agenda and he has decided that he going to push it come hell or high water. The bait and switch is in full effect.

It doesn't make sense because it's against what you believe the answer is; that's all.  If the economy was up, there wouldn't be these bail outs.  He's a far left democrat.  We all knew this.  Therefore he'll push left agendas.  We'll get sick of it a few years from now, and elect a conservative again and things will swing back the other way. 

What is disheartening to me, is that the line that separates repubs from dems is fuzzy as best in bright light.

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2010, 08:03:20 PM »
It doesn't make sense because it's against what you believe the answer is; that's all.  If the economy was up, there wouldn't be these bail outs.  He's a far left democrat.  We all knew this.  Therefore he'll push left agendas.  We'll get sick of it a few years from now, and elect a conservative again and things will swing back the other way. 

What is disheartening to me, is that the line that separates repubs from dems is fuzzy as best in bright light.

Maybe, but how does taking money out of the economy in the form of more taxes, to put it back in via more government run programs make any sense?  Maybe we knew this but I doubt that eveyone did, I had the "advantage" of him being from my home state so I was well aware of what he was all about. Like I have said the American people have created a ruling class filled with sociopaths.

Repub/Dem same shit different letter infront of their name, I refuse to a memeber of any political party for that simple reason.
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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2010, 08:10:34 PM »
Maybe, but how does taking money out of the economy in the form of more taxes, to put it back in via more government run programs make any sense?  Maybe we knew this but I doubt that eveyone did, I had the "advantage" of him being from my home state so I was well aware of what he was all about. Like I have said the American people have created a ruling class filled with sociopaths.

Repub/Dem same shit different letter infront of their name, I refuse to a memeber of any political party for that simple reason.

I don't know how it does.  I don't believe it to be.  I think if we overhauled our system we'd see billions of needlessly spent money.  I don't know that if we didn't do these bail outs that it would have been much worse.  

I hope to see a real third party.  But i don't think we ever will.

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2010, 08:13:07 PM »
'Obama is PURPOSELY doing everything he can to thwart any recovery"

This has to be a pretty big conspiracy theory.

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2010, 08:14:14 PM »
I don't know how it does.  I don't believe it to be.  I think if we overhauled our system we'd see billions of needlessly spent money.  I don't know that if we didn't do these bail outs that it would have been much worse.  

I hope to see a real third party.  But i don't think we ever will.

No other political parties have the money to compete, until they do we will have a 2 party system
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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2010, 05:28:14 AM »
It doesn't make sense because it's against what you believe the answer is; that's all.  If the economy was up, there wouldn't be these bail outs.  He's a far left democrat.  We all knew this.  Therefore he'll push left agendas.  We'll get sick of it a few years from now, and elect a conservative again and things will swing back the other way. 

What is disheartening to me, is that the line that separates repubs from dems is fuzzy as best in bright light.

Ozmo please wake the hell up dude.  Serious, just look who Obama has around him.

Obama - never had a job, never created a job, never worked a day in his life, is ecomonically brain-dead at best.

Summers - bankrupted Harvards' endowement with his crazy schemes and was one of the leaders behind repealing Glass Steagal.

Geithner - Enough freaking said.

Romer - changed her tune since joing the admn.

Volker - been shoved to the back room never to be heard from.

Bernake - clueless and said there was never going to be a downturn in the housing market and has been printing money like crazy.


   


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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2010, 06:17:39 AM »
'Obama is PURPOSELY doing everything he can to thwart any recovery"

This has to be a pretty big conspiracy theory.


Obama ,by his own writings hates this country.He feels his job is to even the score for unions and his community.Every policy he has enacted or is trying to enact is done to expand government and shrink and destroy the private sector.The policies are there,he writings are there.The guy despises the country as does his wife ,who has said that her dopey husband being elected was the first time she was proud of her country and that America is a downright mean country.Add that to sitting in a church that preaches America SUCKS and what other conclusion can you come up with.

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2010, 08:28:37 AM »
Ozmo please wake the hell up dude.  Serious, just look who Obama has around him.

Obama - never had a job, never created a job, never worked a day in his life, is ecomonically brain-dead at best.

Summers - bankrupted Harvards' endowement with his crazy schemes and was one of the leaders behind repealing Glass Steagal.

Geithner - Enough freaking said.

Romer - changed her tune since joing the admn.

Volker - been shoved to the back room never to be heard from.

Bernake - clueless and said there was never going to be a downturn in the housing market and has been printing money like crazy.


Wake the hell up to what?  Are you trying to tell me Obama and some of the people he appointed are unique compared to other presidents?

What president had the challenges Obama had when taking office?

You don't agree  with his solutions because you are a true and true libertarian.

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2010, 08:41:03 AM »
Wake the hell up to what?  Are you trying to tell me Obama and some of the people he appointed are unique compared to other presidents?

What president had the challenges Obama had when taking office?

You don't agree  with his solutions because you are a true and true libertarian.

Bro - please give up the shill job.  Do you really believe the lies he tells?  Why?  Look at his actions, not his words.

Obama does not want a recovery and you need to get over it.  What he wants is a socialist revolution to where the govt takes over everything, every sector, health care, energy, banks, etc.   Remember never let a crisis go to waste?  Well, he wants this crisis to last only so long as he can usher in his NWO socialist agenda.  The man hates you and still makes excuses for him.  Unless you are part of the welfare class or the GS class, you are nothing to him.     

I said from day one his plan would be a disaster and make things worse.  How did I know?  Because I know basic economics.  And guess what - SO DO A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE! 

Its only the Hope & Changers and knee padders who dont realize or are not sober enough to realize what is occuring.  Many people, including myself warned you what was going to happen and you simply ignore it. 

Remmeber what I said about the Stimulus Bill BEFORE it was passed?  How did that one work out?       


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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2010, 12:42:43 PM »
Bro - please give up the shill job.  Do you really believe the lies he tells?  Why?  Look at his actions, not his words.

Obama does not want a recovery and you need to get over it.  What he wants is a socialist revolution to where the govt takes over everything, every sector, health care, energy, banks, etc.   Remember never let a crisis go to waste?  Well, he wants this crisis to last only so long as he can usher in his NWO socialist agenda.  The man hates you and still makes excuses for him.  Unless you are part of the welfare class or the GS class, you are nothing to him.     

I said from day one his plan would be a disaster and make things worse.  How did I know?  Because I know basic economics.  And guess what - SO DO A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE! 

Its only the Hope & Changers and knee padders who dont realize or are not sober enough to realize what is occuring.  Many people, including myself warned you what was going to happen and you simply ignore it. 

Remmeber what I said about the Stimulus Bill BEFORE it was passed?  How did that one work out?       





Like i said, the problem is your libertarian definition of the solution doesn't match his.  Which in reality NO SOLUTION this government has ever had should match yours because no libertarian has ever had the power to do anything.

As far as it being a disaster.  Far from it.  Is it working fast enough?  Of course not.  Would it? Should it?  Of course not.  To expect him to recover this mess inside of a year is silly. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Even in Recovery some jobs won't return
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2010, 12:48:25 PM »


Like i said, the problem is your libertarian definition of the solution doesn't match his.  Which in reality NO SOLUTION this government has ever had should match yours because no libertarian has ever had the power to do anything.

As far as it being a disaster.  Far from it.  Is it working fast enough?  Of course not.  Would it? Should it?  Of course not.  To expect him to recover this mess inside of a year is silly. 

He is making it far worse by all measure.  Wait till the 2009 numbers are readjusted in February.  UE will probably be at 11% or so or close to it. 

By any definition, including his own, his program is a failure.  Remember he said WITHOUT the stimulus bill UE would go to 8.8%?