Sarah Palin Takes Stupid To A New Level With Glenn Beck!!

[MCWAY]

BTW, Lurker,

There's still the little matter of your cowardly avoidance why the Founding Fathers DROPPED Article 11 from the Treaty of Tripoli. Try addressing that, unless that skull of yours needs some more ice to cool off.

And, while you're at it, you can also adress my original question, put to you nearly three weeks ago, regarding Sarah Palin and Barack Obama.

But, I'm sure few (if any) will hold their collective breaths. They just watch your run your mouth and run away, but not before developing a sudden taste for poultry.

[MCWAY]

We should rename this thread Lone Christian Takes Stupid To A New Level With Delusions

I prefer Spineless One Wedges Foot in Own Mouth, while Running Like Scalded Dog.

Recap:

- Founding Fathers declared America a Christian Nation (plenty of quotes, posted here, which Lurker apparently can't read).

- Lurker's claim about John Adams (Founding Father), using Treaty of Tripoli to declare America is not a Christian nation, was refuted by Adams' own quotes, along with Article 11 (containing the verbage, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,....) being DROPPED from the Treaty, eight years later.

Then, there's the matter of explaining why such allegedly "secular" men would insist on electing CHRISTIAN men to office,

Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” - John Jay, 1816

Of course, NO ONE expects Lurker to actually address such issue. That would require some sense and a set of....you know........

[LurkerNoMore]

Did someone mention Obama?  Interesting because the POTUS agrees that we are a secular nation.

“We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation, we consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."  Obama. POTUS.

Why would he think this?  Oh yeah... because....

So once again for the benefit of the slow ones on board...

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now. 

[Soul Crusher]

And what are those values and where did they originate from?

[MCWAY]

Did someone mention Obama?  Interesting because the POTUS agrees that we are a secular nation.

“We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation, we consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."  Obama. POTUS.

Why would he think this?  Oh yeah... because....

Would this be the SAME President Obama, who ALSO said that:

- His stimulus would ensure unemployment would NOT exceed 8%.

- Healthcare debate would be on C-Span.

- Naval Station Guantanamo Bay, Cuba would be closed as of last Friday.

- 95% of Americans' taxes would not increase "one dime".

So, if he BOTCHED UP ALL OF THAT, what are the odds of him, making a bone-headed statement such as that, regarding the heritage of this country?

Hmmmm.....

Sorry, using Obama's buffoonery and cowardice to mask your own doesn't quite make the grade. But, keep on clucking.

[LurkerNoMore]

And what are those values and where did they originate from?

Judaism and Christianity introduced NO principles which were not already universal and commonplace in religions that predated Christianity. Christianity is not original in any form, simply a rip off of other religions and pagan principles with a few name changes and such.  "Judeo-Christian principles" do not exist.  Therefore saying anything is based upon Christian Values is meaningless simply because the constitution is in direct violation of biblical laws, and in no way is attributed to Christianity, but universalism. As in our Founding fathers intended at the time from a spirit of deep mistrust of religious doctrine. Religious fervor was seen then as being politically destructive to the health of nations which as evident by those who fled England in the first place.

[LurkerNoMore]

Christians simply can't grasp facts and logic even when beaten at their own word games.  Has to be frustrating living in a secular nation I suppose.

So once again for the benefit of the slow ones on board...

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now. 

[MCWAY]

Judaism and Christianity introduced NO principles which were not already universal and commonplace in religions that predated Christianity. Christianity is not original in any form, simply a rip off of other religions and pagan principles with a few name changes and such.  "Judeo-Christian principles" do not exist.  Therefore saying anything is based upon Christian Values is meaningless simply because the constitution is in direct violation of biblical laws, and in no way is attributed to Christianity, but universalism. As in our Founding fathers intended at the time from a spirit of deep mistrust of religious doctrine. Religious fervor was seen then as being politically destructive to the health of nations which as evident by those who fled England in the first place.

You mean THESE Founding Fathers:

Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” - John Jay, 1816

Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people.

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty. - Samuel Chase, Supreme Court Justice, giving the majority opinion in the case, "Runkel v. Winemiller", 1799.

The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If `Thou shalt not covet' and `Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free. - John Adams, "A Defense of the American Constitutions", 1787


Funny, there ain't no mention of "universalism" by these guys. That is but more goofball revisionist history on your end.

Notice how you see NO references to Allah, Buddha, Molech, Zeus, Dagon, Baal, or any other deity.

This truly shows just how big of a crackpot you actually are, Lurker, making such a moronic claim, with the words of the Founding Fathers, plain as day for all to see (and what I've posted is hardly exhaustive).

And, just to embarrass yourself further, you know display your utter lack of facts, regarding ancient religions.

But, that's to be expected when you use Barack Obama and the Treaty of Tripoli, to make such stupid points.

Of course, dear cowardly one, you still got some 'splainin' to do, regarding that Treaty of Tripoli, and what was asked of you, weeks ago (regarding Sarah Palin and Barack Obama).

[pellius]

Judaism and Christianity introduced NO principles which were not already universal and commonplace in religions that predated Christianity. 

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts and there's a lot of arguments to address. This one caught my eye.

Judaism was the first monotheistic religion. One God, one set of values of right and wrong that applied to everybody regardless of culture.

If one accepts that religion played more of a role in peoples lives two hundred years ago, and those who consider themselves atheist or agnostic today are still a small minority in this country (US), and of those who adhere to a religious belief system Christianity is still the predominate religion, it doesn't seem much of a stretch the influence Christianity had in the founding of this country.

If not Christianity then what? Islam? Shintoism? Buddhism? Were people simply born with an innate sense of right and wrong? It is simply encoded in our DNA that say, for instance, stealing is wrong, lying is wrong?

Again, I want to reitereate, that I believe the founders were very adamant about having a secular government but I don't think they wanted a culture devoid of all religious values, in this case, Christianity.
 

[MCWAY]

I almost forgot:

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." -  John Adams

Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ." - James Madison


"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man." - Alexandar Hamilton


The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams

"I had the honor of being one who framed that Constitution. In order effectually to accomplish these great ends set forth in the Constitution, it is especially the duty of those who bear rule to promote and encourage respect for God and virtue and to discourage every degree of vice and immorality" - Henry Laurens


So much for Lurker's buffoonery about a "deep mistrust of religious doctrine", among the Founding Fathers.

[LurkerNoMore]

Jebus Land called.  Said you are a fool.  Oh yeah... let's not forget

So once again for the benefit of the slow ones on board...

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now. 

[dario73]

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts and there's a lot of arguments to address. This one caught my eye.

Judaism was the first monotheistic religion. One God, one set of values of right and wrong that applied to everybody regardless of culture.

If one accepts that religion played more of a role in peoples lives two hundred years ago, and those who consider themselves atheist or agnostic today are still a small minority in this country (US), and of those who adhere to a religious belief system Christianity is still the predominate religion, it doesn't seem much of a stretch the influence Christianity had in the founding of this country.

If not Christianity then what? Islam? Shintoism? Buddhism? Were people simply born with an innate sense of right and wrong? It is simply encoded in our DNA that say, for instance, stealing is wrong, lying is wrong?

Again, I want to reitereate, that I believe the founders were very adamant about having a secular government but I don't think they wanted a culture devoid of all religious values, in this case, Christianity.
 

Post of the day.

[chadstallion]

and the founding fathers, being christian, were also white males.  It was good to be white and male, with land and money back then. No wonder they were happy.

[pellius]

Christians simply can't grasp facts and logic even when beaten at their own word games.  Has to be frustrating living in a secular nation I suppose.

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now.

You keep repeating these points and all are true  though when a phrase like "the year of our Lord" or "creator" is use that could be considered hinting at a God, though the word "God" is not specifically enunciated. But why does this imply that America is not a Christian nation or any other nation? Especially when you insist that there is a distinct separation of church and state. If I am a Christian and my family is Christian we are a Christian family regardless of the government. One has nothing to do with the other, at point which you are so determine to point out. Americans who consider themselves Christians varies anywhere from 76-86%. A vast majority. So what?

Why is it a sign of insecurity and lack of independent thought to conclude from these statistics that the vast majority of Americans are Christians? I have no problems with insecurity or feel I am surrendering independent thought that Israel is a Jewish country or that Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country.

[Soul Crusher]

and the founding fathers, being christian, were also white males.  It was good to be white and male, with land and money back then. No wonder they were happy.

Yeah, better to have been an African Slave Trader selling your own people right?    

[MCWAY]

Jebus Land called.  Said you are a fool.  Oh yeah... let's not forget

O Ye of big mouth and little spine.

It appears you don't read very well. So, let's hear what some of the FOUNDING FATHERS had to say about America as a Christian nation:

"I had the honor of being one who framed that Constitution. In order effectually to accomplish these great ends set forth in the Constitution, it is especially the duty of those who bear rule to promote and encourage respect for God and virtue and to discourage every degree of vice and immorality" - Henry Laurens


Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” - John Jay, 1816

Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people.

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty. - Samuel Chase, Supreme Court Justice, giving the majority opinion in the case, "Runkel v. Winemiller", 1799.

Who do I believe folks, our Founding Fathers, or a babbling gutless crackpot, named Lurker?

[LurkerNoMore]

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts and there's a lot of arguments to address. This one caught my eye.

Judaism was the first monotheistic religion. One God, one set of values of right and wrong that applied to everybody regardless of culture.

If one accepts that religion played more of a role in peoples lives two hundred years ago, and those who consider themselves atheist or agnostic today are still a small minority in this country (US), and of those who adhere to a religious belief system Christianity is still the predominate religion, it doesn't seem much of a stretch the influence Christianity had in the founding of this country.

If not Christianity then what? Islam? Shintoism? Buddhism? Were people simply born with an innate sense of right and wrong? It is simply encoded in our DNA that say, for instance, stealing is wrong, lying is wrong?

Again, I want to reitereate, that I believe the founders were very adamant about having a secular government but I don't think they wanted a culture devoid of all religious values, in this case, Christianity.
 

No one knows what the first religion really was.  The Egyptians predate the Jews, The Mesopotamians predate them. The Chinese predate them... etc.. and so on.  All the way back to the caveman.

Although the Egyptian religion is generally regarded by most as the oldest religion. Its origins date back beyond 3000 BCE.  

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all Abrahamic religions. Abraham dates back to 1800 BC.  Contrary to what religious nuts believe, it didn't start with Adam and Eve.  

Rama, krishna, God, Buddha, etc... no matter which deity you choose to depend upon for your marching orders, some things can be considered universal.  Only that god was to be worshipped.  Stealing, murder, etc.. was forbidden.  And so on.  How anyone can consider The Ten Commandments as exclusive "Christian Values" makes no sense. Since those "values" existed in form in other, older religions.  Since it is a set of values shared by different religions one can see why it is "universal" in nature.

[MCWAY]

You keep repeating these points and all are true  though when a phrase like "the year of our Lord" or "creator" is use that could be considered hinting at a God, though the word "God" is not specifically enunciated. But why does this imply that America is not a Christian nation or any other nation? Especially when you insist that there is a distinct separation of church and state. If I am a Christian and my family is Christian we are a Christian family regardless of the government. One has nothing to do with the other, at point which you are so determine to point out. Americans who consider themselves Christians varies anywhere from 76-86%. A vast majority. So what?

Why is it a sign of insecurity and lack of independent thought to conclude from these statistics that the vast majority of Americans are Christians? I have no problems with insecurity or feel I am surrendering independent thought that Israel is a Jewish country or that Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country.

The answer is simple. None of Lurker's listed points (which he mindlessly repeats, because he lacks the guts to address the questions put before him) keep America from being a Christian nation.

As I said earlier, Lurker is of the silly belief that for America to be a Christian nation, it would have to be theocracy, ala Saudi Arabia or other Muslim countries. Such is simply not the case.

It ain't that hard to say that America is a Christian nation, WHEN OUR FOUNDING FATHERS SAID THE EXACT SAME THING.

[MCWAY]

No one knows what the first religion really was.  The Egyptians predate the Jews, The Mesopotamians predate them. The Chinese predate them... etc.. and so on.  All the way back to the caveman.

Although the Egyptian religion is generally regarded by most as the oldest religion. Its origins date back beyond 3000 BCE.  

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all Abrahamic religions. Abraham dates back to 1800 BC.  Contrary to what religious nuts believe, it didn't start with Adam and Eve.  

Rama, krishna, God, Buddha, etc... no matter which deity you choose to depend upon for your marching orders, some things can be considered universal.  Only that god was to be worshipped.  Stealing, murder, etc.. was forbidden.  And so on.  How anyone can consider The Ten Commandments as exclusive "Christian Values" makes no sense. Since those "values" existed in form in other, older religions.  Since it is a set of values shared by different religions one can see why it is "universal" in nature.

Yet, O myopic one, our Founding Fathers DID NOT CITE Rama, Krishna, Buddha, or any other deity for the values that helped shape this country. It's pretty clear WHOM they cite as the God to be worshipped.

And, there's not a blessed mention of univeralism among the Founding Fathers.

[LurkerNoMore]

You keep repeating these points and all are true  though when a phrase like "the year of our Lord" or "creator" is use that could be considered hinting at a God, though the word "God" is not specifically enunciated. But why does this imply that America is not a Christian nation or any other nation? Especially when you insist that there is a distinct separation of church and state. If I am a Christian and my family is Christian we are a Christian family regardless of the government. One has nothing to do with the other, at point which you are so determine to point out. Americans who consider themselves Christians varies anywhere from 76-86%. A vast majority. So what?

Why is it a sign of insecurity and lack of independent thought to conclude from these statistics that the vast majority of Americans are Christians? I have no problems with insecurity or feel I am surrendering independent thought that Israel is a Jewish country or that Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country.

Year of the Lord was the standard way of writing dates back then.  It was simply what one did, not to intone religious beliefs into anything.  No different than adding Eastern Standard Time after a time now.  It was a language custom, not a religious one.  It went out just like saying "thou", "thee", etc..

The # of the population that are Christians have no bearing on the establishment of this nation through the Constitution since it is/was done from a governmental standpoint.  Saying "God" doesn't become Christian Doctrine.  Since many other deities are considered "God" and "gods" as well.  If the Founding Fathers truly wanted a Christian Nation they would have explicitly spelled it out.  But they didn't, which is exactly why "god" was left out of the Constitution.

The very fact that the Constitution violates the Ten Commandments that it is supposingly built upon is all the proof one needs.  Because if they did indeed for this to be a Christian Nation then they were really terrible Christians who never read the Bible (which is no surprise by the # today like that) since they created a document that violated the core of Christianity (Commandment 1) with it's very first entry (First Amendment).

[LurkerNoMore]

Yet, O myopic one, our Founding Fathers DID NOT CITE Rama, Krishna, Buddha, or any other deity for the values that helped shape this country. It's pretty clear WHOM they cite as the God to be worshipped.

And, there's not a blessed mention of univeralism among the Founding Fathers.

They didn't cite God either in the Constitution.  Which is why...

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now.

[MCWAY]

They didn't cite God either in the Constitution.  Which is why...

They don't have to cite God in the Constitution, for America to be a Christian nation (That is but a screwy requirement on YOUR end, that holds no basis in fact)

But, don't take my word for it:

I had the honor of being one who framed that Constitution. In order effectually to accomplish these great ends set forth in the Constitution, it is especially the duty of those who bear rule to promote and encourage respect for God and virtue and to discourage every degree of vice and immorality" - Henry Laurens

[MCWAY]

Year of the Lord was the standard way of writing dates back then.  It was simply what one did, not to intone religious beliefs into anything.  No different than adding Eastern Standard Time after a time now.  It was a language custom, not a religious one.  It went out just like saying "thou", "thee", etc..

The # of the population that are Christians have no bearing on the establishment of this nation through the Constitution since it is/was done from a governmental standpoint.  Saying "God" doesn't become Christian Doctrine.  Since many other deities are considered "God" and "gods" as well.  If the Founding Fathers truly wanted a Christian Nation they would have explicitly spelled it out.  But they didn't, which is exactly why "god" was left out of the Constitution.

The very fact that the Constitution violates the Ten Commandments that it is supposingly built upon is all the proof one needs.  Because if they did indeed for this to be a Christian Nation then they were really terrible Christians who never read the Bible (which is no surprise by the # today like that) since they created a document that violated the core of Christianity (Commandment 1) with it's very first entry (First Amendment).

Hmmmm......


Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” - John Jay, 1816

Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people.

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty." - Samuel Chase, Supreme Court Justice, giving the majority opinion in the case, "Runkel v. Winemiller", 1799.

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." -  John Adams

Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ." - James Madison


"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man." - Alexandar Hamilton


The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams

Spelled out, in plain English, in pure black and white.

The Bible, the Law of Sinai, the Ten Commandments......And you're silly enough to think that they might have been talking about Buddha?

[pellius]

Year of the Lord was the standard way of writing dates back then.  It was simply what one did, not to intone religious beliefs into anything.  No different than adding Eastern Standard Time after a time now.  It was a language custom, not a religious one.  It went out just like saying "thou", "thee", etc..

The # of the population that are Christians have no bearing on the establishment of this nation through the Constitution since it is/was done from a governmental standpoint.  Saying "God" doesn't become Christian Doctrine.  Since many other deities are considered "God" and "gods" as well.  If the Founding Fathers truly wanted a Christian Nation they would have explicitly spelled it out.  But they didn't, which is exactly why "god" was left out of the Constitution.

The very fact that the Constitution violates the Ten Commandments that it is supposingly built upon is all the proof one needs.  Because if they did indeed for this to be a Christian Nation then they were really terrible Christians who never read the Bible (which is no surprise by the # today like that) since they created a document that violated the core of Christianity (Commandment 1) with it's very first entry (First Amendment).

It seems you are conflating the notion of a Christian government and a predominately  Christian nation. We have, and should strive to have, a secular government. As far as a value and moral system goes it seems to me to have been primarily influenced by the Judea/Christian ethic. In so far as religious and moral values go if we are not primarily a Christian nation then what are we?

[MCWAY]

It seems you are conflating the notion of a Christian government and a predominately  Christian nation. We have, and should strive to have, a secular government. As far as a value and moral system goes it seems to me to have been primarily influenced by the Judea/Christian ethic. In so far as religious and moral values go if we are not primarily a Christian nation then what are we?

Here's where I disagree with you. It's hard to say that we have a secular government (as in a non-Christian one), when the Founders state our laws are based on Scripture, i.e.:

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." -  John Adams

The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty." - Samuel Chase

Based on that and the way our government is actually structured, I believe Dr. King hit the nail on the head, when stating that the church is the conscience of the state, not its slave nor its master.

On a scale of 0 to 10 (the extremes being a secular/atheist society vs. a theocracy, respectively), I'd cite America as (or at least, designed to be) a 6 or 7.