Sarah Palin Takes Stupid To A New Level With Glenn Beck!!

[LurkerNoMore]

It seems you are conflating the notion of a Christian government and a predominately  Christian nation. We have, and should strive to have, a secular government. As far as a value and moral system goes it seems to me to have been primarily influenced by the Judea/Christian ethic. In so far as religious and moral values go if we are not primarily a Christian nation then what are we?

Which principle was the purpose for the Constitution to establish?

Governmental
Moral
Religious

Out of those three it was created to establish which one?

[LurkerNoMore]

Here's where I disagree with you. It's hard to say that we have a secular government (as in a non-Christian one),

Delusions will always disagree with facts and reality.  As your posts have proven.

Because....

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now.

[MCWAY]

Which principle was the purpose for the Constitution to establish?

Governmental
Moral
Religious

Out of those three it was created to establish which one?

ALL of the above.

[MCWAY]

Delusions will always disagree with facts and reality.  As your posts have proven.

Because....

My posts have proven you to be a sniveling coward, to say nothing of woefully inaccurate.

The reality is, the Founding Fathers deemed this a Christian nation. Go ahead, be a fool and deny that they didn't.

The reality is that you goofed up royally by using the Treaty of Tripoli to show the contrary (explain again why Article 11 got scratched, please).

The reality is you continue to wallow in silliness, by implying that the term "God" was somehow generic can could apply to a host of deities, DESPITE THE FACT that the Founding Fathers stated, in no uncertain terms, their references to the Lord, as depicted in Scripture.

I have the facts and the reality, which I can and have displayed with ease. You have nothing but your foot in your mouth and a streak down your back that's lemon-yellow.

Edit - AND, O dishonest one, what I actually said was, "It's hard to say that we have a secular government (as in a non-Christian one), when the Founders state our laws are based on Scripture.....(followed by posts of multple statements by the Founding Fathers, that make Lurker look awfully dumb).

[LurkerNoMore]

ALL of the above.

Incorrect.

The purpose of the Constitution was to provide a sense of direction to the organization of the three branches of the US Government. The draft outlines the individual and combined powers of each branch, while reserving the rights of each individual state. It defines the importance of jury trials, civil liberties and duties and the accountability of the government.

It has nothing to do with being a religious document or a document based on religion because...

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now.

[MCWAY]

Incorrect.

The purpose of the Constitution was to provide a sense of direction to the organization of the three branches of the US Government. The draft outlines the individual and combined powers of each branch, while reserving the rights of each individual state. It defines the importance of jury trials, civil liberties and duties and the accountability of the government.

It has nothing to do with being a religious document or a document based on religion because...

Let's see what the men who drafted, signed, and governed by that Constitution said about it, shall we?



By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty." - Samuel Chase

The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams

Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." -  John Adams

I had the honor of being one who framed that Constitution. In order effectually to accomplish these great ends set forth in the Constitution, it is especially the duty of those who bear rule to promote and encourage respect for God and virtue and to discourage every degree of vice and immorality" - Henry Laurens

OOPS!! I forgot you don't like that, because it smashes your claims to pieces and make you look silly (or sillier, I should say).

[pellius]

Here's where I disagree with you. It's hard to say that we have a secular government (as in a non-Christian one), when the Founders state our laws are based on Scripture, i.e.:

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." -  John Adams

The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty." - Samuel Chase

Based on that and the way our government is actually structured, I believe Dr. King hit the nail on the head, when stating that the church is the conscience of the state, not its slave nor its master.

On a scale of 0 to 10 (the extremes being a secular/atheist society vs. a theocracy, respectively), I'd cite America as (or at least, designed to be) a 6 or 7.

Perhaps I should qualify: by secular government I mean no state religion. No religious requirement to hold office or secure a government job. No encouraging (or discouraging) any religious affiliation of any sort by government.

But in light of the evidence it's hard to deny that Christianity didn't play some role in laying the moral foundation in our society and culture. I don't know why some are so fiercely adamant, or even threatened, by denying it.

It's curiousity that one is very quick to point out religious extremism and the harm it has caused throughout history. But often the same people remain silent to the concept of secular extremism especially in the light that the some most horrible regimes (Nazism, Fascism, Communism) that are responsible for the most deaths of innocent lives were secular regimes.

Lurker has seemed to have degenerated into ridicule and name calling rather than addressing directly your arguments. Some of the points he has made are true but irrelevant to the issue of the role Christianity has played in laying the moral foundation in our culture and society. He still has not answered the question that if it wasn't Christianity than what was it. Where did this value system come from? If he wants to say it didn't come from anywhere but just sort of evolved over the course of time through trial and error then that's fine. Or if we are just born with an innate sense of right and wrong.  

[pellius]

Which principle was the purpose for the Constitution to establish?

Governmental
Moral
Religious

Out of those three it was created to establish which one?

Of the three, governmental.

[Straw Man]

BTW, Lurker,

There's still the little matter of your cowardly avoidance why the Founding Fathers DROPPED Article 11 from the Treaty of Tripoli. Try addressing that, unless that skull of yours needs some more ice to cool off.

And, while you're at it, you can also adress my original question, put to you nearly three weeks ago, regarding Sarah Palin and Barack Obama.

But, I'm sure few (if any) will hold their collective breaths. They just watch your run your mouth and run away, but not before developing a sudden taste for poultry.

Have you documented this claim?
5
The treaty was written in english and the controversy surrounds the translation from English to Arabic.

from Wiki:

It is to be remembered that the Barlow translation is that which was submitted to the Senate (American State Papers, Foreign Relations, II, 18-19) and which is printed in the Statutes at Large and in treaty collections generally; it is that English text which in the United States has always been deemed the text of the treaty.[15]

However the Arabic and English texts differ, the Barlow translation (Article 11 included) was the text presented to, read aloud in, and ratified unanimously by the U.S. Senate.

[MCWAY]

Perhaps I should qualify: by secular government I mean no state religion. No religious requirement to hold office or secure a government job. No encouraging (or discouraging) any religious affiliation of any sort by government.

Agreed! But based on the statements of the Founders the "religious affiliation" was with respect to denominations of Christianity. In other words, Baptists don't trump Methodists; Methodists don't get favored over Pentecostals, etc.

But in light of the evidence it's hard to deny that Christianity didn't play some role in laying the moral foundation in our society and culture. I don't know why some are so fiercely adamant, or even threatened, by denying it.

It's curiousity that one is very quick to point out religious extremism and the harm it has caused throughout history. But often the same people remain silent to the concept of secular extremism especially in the light that the some most horrible regimes (Nazism, Fascism, Communism) that are responsible for the most deaths of innocent lives were secular regimes.

Lurker has seemed to have degenerated into ridicule and name calling rather than addressing directly your arguments. Some of the points he has made are true but irrelevant to the issue of the role Christianity has played in laying the moral foundation in our culture and society. He still has not answered the question that if it wasn't Christianity than what was it. Where did this value system come from? If he wants to say it didn't come from anywhere but just sort of evolved over the course of time through trial and error then that's fine. Or if we are just born with an innate sense of right and wrong.  

Join the club.

He hasn't addressed a host of questions, particularly about the Treaty of Tripoli, or even about (what this thread was about, from the start) Sarah Palin.

[Straw Man]

the only controversy is the translation from English to Arabic.

The text was written in English and the full version was read aloud in the Senate and passed UNANIMOUSLY

those are FACTS

again from Wiki:

From this, Miller concludes: "A further and perhaps equal mystery is the fact that since 1797 the Barlow translation has been trustfully and universally accepted as the just equivalent of the Arabic... yet evidence of the erroneous character of the Barlow translation has been in the archives of the Department of State since perhaps 1800 or thereabouts..."[15] It is important to note, though, that as Miller said:

It is to be remembered that the Barlow translation is that which was submitted to the Senate (American State Papers, Foreign Relations, II,  and which is printed in the Statutes at Large and in treaty collections generally; it is that English text which in the United States has always been deemed the text of the treaty

However the Arabic and English texts differ, the Barlow translation (Article 11 included) was the text presented to, read aloud in, and ratified unanimously by the U.S. Senate

[MCWAY]

Have you documented this claim?
5
The treaty was written in english and the controversy surrounds the translation from English to Arabic.

from Wiki:

It is to be remembered that the Barlow translation is that which was submitted to the Senate (American State Papers, Foreign Relations, II, 18-19) and which is printed in the Statutes at Large and in treaty collections generally; it is that English text which in the United States has always been deemed the text of the treaty.[15]

However the Arabic and English texts differ, the Barlow translation (Article 11 included) was the text presented to, read aloud in, and ratified unanimously by the U.S. Senate.

I already mentioned that controversy, Straw Man.

But.....

 
The Treaty was broken in 1801 by the pasha of Tripoli and renegotiated in 1805 after the First Barbary War, at which time Article 11 was removed


http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Treaty:of:Tripoli.htm

[Straw Man]

in other words you agree with the undeniable FACT that the following was included in the original treaty and passed with a unanimous vote:   

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

[MCWAY]

in other words you agree with the undeniable FACT that the following was included in the original treaty and passed with a unanimous vote:    

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Lost in all of this was that the reason for Article 11 was to convince the Muslim that America was NOT a theocracy as their nations were, with regards to Islam. In other words, whatever reason it was put in the original treaty, IT WAS DROPPED less than a decade later.

So, why would a nation SOOOOOOOOOOO allegedly secular, take Article 11 out of the treaty, if it were so important to relay that America ain't a Christian nation, especially when the guy who signed it ALSO said the following:

Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."  -  John Adams

Not to mention, that there was THIS blurb, spoken about two years AFTER that treaty was signed:

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty." - Samuel Chase

Strange words from folks, trying to declare that America ain't a Christian nation, ain't it?

[Straw Man]

I find it stranger that not one Senator voted against the original text at the time it was written.

Weird how all those alleged Christians had no problem voting in consent with the statement that America was in NOT IN ANY SENSE founded on the Christian religion.

[blacken700]

The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by the colonial  at the time of the American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems and belief in a supreme deity who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws. The supreme God of the Deists removed himself entirely from the universe after creating it. They believed that he assumed no control over it, exerted no influence on natural phenomena, and gave no supernatural revelation to man. A necessary consequence of these beliefs was a rejection of many doctrines central to the Christian religion. Deists did not believe in the virgin birth, divinity, or resurrection of Jesus, the efficacy of prayer, the miracles of the Bible, or even the divine inspiration of the Bible.

Other important founding fathers who espoused Deism were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, James Madison, and James Monroe.

Fundamentalist Christians are currently working overtime to convince the American public that the founding fathers intended to establish this country on "biblical principles," but history simply does not support their view. The men mentioned above and others who were instrumental in the founding of our nation were in no sense Bible-believing Christians. Thomas Jefferson, in fact, was fiercely anti-cleric. In a letter to Horatio Spafford in 1814, Jefferson said, "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes" (George Seldes, The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey Citadel Press, 1983, p. 371). In a letter to Mrs. Harrison Smith, he wrote, "It is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read. By the same test the world must judge me. But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest" (August 6, 1816).

Jefferson was just as suspicious of the traditional belief that the Bible is "the inspired word of God." He rewrote the story of Jesus as told in the New Testament and compiled his own gospel version known as The Jefferson Bible, which eliminated all miracles attributed to Jesus and ended with his burial. The Jeffersonian gospel account contained no resurrection, a twist to the life of Jesus that was considered scandalous to Christians but perfectly sensible to Jefferson's Deistic mind. In a letter to John Adams, he wrote, "To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, God, are immaterial is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise" (August 15, 1820). In saying this, Jefferson was merely expressing the widely held Deistic view of his time, which rejected the mysticism of the Bible and relied on natural law and human reason to explain why the world is as it is. Writing to Adams again, Jefferson said, "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (April 11, 1823). These were hardly the words of a devout Bible-believer.

Jefferson didn't just reject the Christian belief that the Bible was "the inspired word of God"; he rejected the Christian system too. In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33). Anyone today who would make a statement like this or others we have quoted from Jefferson's writings would be instantly branded an infidel, yet modern Bible fundamentalists are frantically trying to cast Jefferson in the mold of a Bible believing Christian. They do so, of course, because Jefferson was just too important in the formation of our nation to leave him out if Bible fundamentalists hope to sell their "Christian-nation" claim to the public. Hence, they try to rewrite history to make it appear that men like Thomas Jefferson had intended to build our nation on "biblical principles." The irony of this situation is that the Christian leaders of Jefferson's time knew where he stood on "biblical principles," and they fought desperately, but unsuccessfully, to prevent his election to the presidency. Saul K. Padover's biography related the bitterness of the opposition that the clergy mounted against Jefferson in the campaign of 1800

[MCWAY]

I find it stranger that not one Senator voted against the original text at the time it was written.

Weird how all those alleged Christians had no problem voting in consent with the statement that America was in NOT IN ANY SENSE founded on the Christian religion.

Weirder STILL is how, these alleged secular/deists, hell-bent of broadcasting that America was not a Christian nation, TOOK THAT CLAUSE OUT, just eight years later (and HAVEN'T PUT IT BACK TO THIS DAY!!).

[MCWAY]

The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by the colonial  at the time of the American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems and belief in a supreme deity who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws. The supreme God of the Deists removed himself entirely from the universe after creating it. They believed that he assumed no control over it, exerted no influence on natural phenomena, and gave no supernatural revelation to man. A necessary consequence of these beliefs was a rejection of many doctrines central to the Christian religion. Deists did not believe in the virgin birth, divinity, or resurrection of Jesus, the efficacy of prayer, the miracles of the Bible, or even the divine inspiration of the Bible.

Other important founding fathers who espoused Deism were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, James Madison, and James Monroe.

Fundamentalist Christians are currently working overtime to convince the American public that the founding fathers intended to establish this country on "biblical principles," but history simply does not support their view. The men mentioned above and others who were instrumental in the founding of our nation were in no sense Bible-believing Christians. Thomas Jefferson, in fact, was fiercely anti-cleric. In a letter to Horatio Spafford in 1814, Jefferson said, "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes" (George Seldes, The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey Citadel Press, 1983, p. 371). In a letter to Mrs. Harrison Smith, he wrote, "It is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read. By the same test the world must judge me. But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest" (August 6, 1816).

PLEASE!!! Working overtime? That's more like a half-day at the office, if that.

You and Lurker can act ignorant if you want (in which case, congratulations in advance on winning the Oscar). But, the simple facts are that the Founding Fathers stated that our nation is a Christian nation and built on Biblical principles.

But, don't take my word for it:

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty." - Samuel Chase

The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams

Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." -  John Adams

I had the honor of being one who framed that Constitution. In order effectually to accomplish these great ends set forth in the Constitution, it is especially the duty of those who bear rule to promote and encourage respect for God and virtue and to discourage every degree of vice and immorality" - Henry Laurens

Jefferson was just as suspicious of the traditional belief that the Bible is "the inspired word of God." He rewrote the story of Jesus as told in the New Testament and compiled his own gospel version known as The Jefferson Bible, which eliminated all miracles attributed to Jesus and ended with his burial. The Jeffersonian gospel account contained no resurrection, a twist to the life of Jesus that was considered scandalous to Christians but perfectly sensible to Jefferson's Deistic mind. In a letter to John Adams, he wrote, "To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, God, are immaterial is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise" (August 15, 1820). In saying this, Jefferson was merely expressing the widely held Deistic view of his time, which rejected the mysticism of the Bible and relied on natural law and human reason to explain why the world is as it is. Writing to Adams again, Jefferson said, "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (April 11, 1823). These were hardly the words of a devout Bible-believer.

But, these words ARE the ones of devout Bible-believers:

By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty." - Samuel Chase

The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams


It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.  - John Adams, "Thoughts on Government", 1776

The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If `Thou shalt not covet' and `Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free. - John Adams, "A Defense of the American Constitutions", 1787

And there's plenty more from where that came.

Jefferson didn't just reject the Christian belief that the Bible was "the inspired word of God"; he rejected the Christian system too. In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33). Anyone today who would make a statement like this or others we have quoted from Jefferson's writings would be instantly branded an infidel, yet modern Bible fundamentalists are frantically trying to cast Jefferson in the mold of a Bible believing Christian. They do so, of course, because Jefferson was just too important in the formation of our nation to leave him out if Bible fundamentalists hope to sell their "Christian-nation" claim to the public. Hence, they try to rewrite history to make it appear that men like Thomas Jefferson had intended to build our nation on "biblical principles." The irony of this situation is that the Christian leaders of Jefferson's time knew where he stood on "biblical principles," and they fought desperately, but unsuccessfully, to prevent his election to the presidency. Saul K. Padover's biography related the bitterness of the opposition that the clergy mounted against Jefferson in the campaign of 1800

Hate to break it to you, Blacken, but only a handful of those guys were deist:

Name of Signer      State           Religious Affiliation

Charles Carroll       Maryland          Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut      Congregationalist
Roger Sherman      Connecticut      Congregationalist
William Williams      Connecticut      Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott       Connecticut      Congregationalist
Lyman Hall            Georgia            Congregationalist
Samuel Adams       Massachusetts  Congregationalist
John Hancock        Massachusetts  Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett       New Hampshire  Congregationalist
William Whipple      New Hampshire  Congregationalist
William Ellery         Rhode Island     Congregationalist
John Adams          Massachusetts  Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts  Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton      Georgia            Episcopalian
John Penn            North Carolina   Episcopalian
George Ross          Pennsylvania    Episcopalian
 

And, that's just the short list.


The signers were those individuals who happened to be Delegates to Congress at the time... The signers possessed many basic similarities. Most were American-born and of Anglo-Saxon origin. The eight foreign-born... were all natives of the British Isles. Except for Charles Carroll, a Roman Catholic, and a few Deists, every one subscribed to Protestantism. For the most part basically political nonextremists, many at first had hesitated at separation let alone rebellion.


http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

[LurkerNoMore]

Let's see what the men who drafted, signed, and governed by that Constitution said about it, shall we?.

Incorrect once again.

The Constitution spells out in black and white that any religious context within is from a CIVIL LIBERTIES standpoint, not a religious doctrine.

You can not understand that the Constitution plainly states it.  You are arguing and losing against FACTS.

Which isn't surprising seeing how facts escape those with Jebus in their heads.

[LurkerNoMore]

irrelevant to the issue of the role Christianity has played in laying the moral foundation in our culture and society.

Because we are not talking about culture and society. 

We are talking about the nation from a governmental standpoint.  Which seems to be an extremely hard topic for some people to stay on. 

If it isn't about the nation and our government, it is not the topic I am talking about.

[chadstallion]

Yeah, better to have been an African Slave Trader selling your own people right?    

you are against capitalism?

[LurkerNoMore]

Of the three, governmental.

EXACTLY!  

And from a governmental standpoint that was established by the Constitution is this country a secular nation or not?

[LurkerNoMore]

Sarah Palin.

Already done.  Maybe the Jebus in your eye caused you to miss it.

To repeat...

Palin is stupid.  FACT
So are you.  FACT
US is a secular nation.  FACT

[MCWAY]

Incorrect once again.

The Constitution spells out in black and white that any religious context within is from a CIVIL LIBERTIES standpoint, not a religious doctrine.

You can not understand that the Constitution plainly states it.  You are arguing and losing against FACTS.

Which isn't surprising seeing how facts escape those with Jebus in their heads.

I understand what the Constitution says quite well. I also understand WHAT THE MEN WHO WROTE IT AND SIGNED IT said, regarding the nature of our country.


When men who actually signed the darn thing state, in plain English, that America is a Chrstian nation, it pretty much exposes you for the rambling fool that you are.

[MCWAY]

Already done.  Maybe the Jebus in your eye caused you to miss it.

To repeat...

Palin is stupid.  FACT
So are you.  FACT

Spoken the true spineless buffoon that you are. The Founding Fathers stated that this a Christian nation, with their statements in black-and-white for ALL to see.

Yet, we have Lurker, the yellow-streaked fool, continuing to make a Democratic symbol of himself, with such silliness.

It is to laugh.

US is a secular nation.  FACT

Wrong again, dopey one!! Reason:

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” - John Jay

"I had the honor of being one who framed that Constitution. In order effectually to accomplish these great ends set forth in the Constitution, it is especially the duty of those who bear rule to promote and encourage respect for God and virtue and to discourage every degree of vice and immorality" - Henry Laurens

The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams