Sarah Palin Takes Stupid To A New Level With Glenn Beck!!

[James]

The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by the colonial  at the time of the American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems and belief in a supreme deity who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws. The supreme God of the Deists removed himself entirely from the universe after creating it. They believed that he assumed no control over it, exerted no influence on natural phenomena, and gave no supernatural revelation to man. A necessary consequence of these beliefs was a rejection of many doctrines central to the Christian religion. Deists did not believe in the virgin birth, divinity, or resurrection of Jesus, the efficacy of prayer, the miracles of the Bible, or even the divine inspiration of the Bible.

Other important founding fathers who espoused Deism were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, James Madison, and James Monroe.

Fundamentalist Christians are currently working overtime to convince the American public that the founding fathers intended to establish this country on "biblical principles," but history simply does not support their view. The men mentioned above and others who were instrumental in the founding of our nation were in no sense Bible-believing Christians. Thomas Jefferson, in fact, was fiercely anti-cleric. In a letter to Horatio Spafford in 1814, Jefferson said, "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes" (George Seldes, The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey Citadel Press, 1983, p. 371). In a letter to Mrs. Harrison Smith, he wrote, "It is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read. By the same test the world must judge me. But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest" (August 6, 1816).

Jefferson was just as suspicious of the traditional belief that the Bible is "the inspired word of God." He rewrote the story of Jesus as told in the New Testament and compiled his own gospel version known as The Jefferson Bible, which eliminated all miracles attributed to Jesus and ended with his burial. The Jeffersonian gospel account contained no resurrection, a twist to the life of Jesus that was considered scandalous to Christians but perfectly sensible to Jefferson's Deistic mind. In a letter to John Adams, he wrote, "To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, God, are immaterial is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise" (August 15, 1820). In saying this, Jefferson was merely expressing the widely held Deistic view of his time, which rejected the mysticism of the Bible and relied on natural law and human reason to explain why the world is as it is. Writing to Adams again, Jefferson said, "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (April 11, 1823). These were hardly the words of a devout Bible-believer.

Jefferson didn't just reject the Christian belief that the Bible was "the inspired word of God"; he rejected the Christian system too. In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33). Anyone today who would make a statement like this or others we have quoted from Jefferson's writings would be instantly branded an infidel, yet modern Bible fundamentalists are frantically trying to cast Jefferson in the mold of a Bible believing Christian. They do so, of course, because Jefferson was just too important in the formation of our nation to leave him out if Bible fundamentalists hope to sell their "Christian-nation" claim to the public. Hence, they try to rewrite history to make it appear that men like Thomas Jefferson had intended to build our nation on "biblical principles." The irony of this situation is that the Christian leaders of Jefferson's time knew where he stood on "biblical principles," and they fought desperately, but unsuccessfully, to prevent his election to the presidency. Saul K. Padover's biography related the bitterness of the opposition that the clergy mounted against Jefferson in the campaign of 1800

Trying to pass this off as your own words Blacken ?

Or maybe you just forgot to post the link  

I'll do it for you, since you forgot:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html

[Soul Crusher]

Blacken has yet, to the best of my knowledge, ever penned a coherent post on any subject. 

[MCWAY]

Trying to pass this off as your own words blacken ?

Or maybe you just left off the link to where you copied it by accident  

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html

Imagine that! Atheists making the ridiculous claim that America was NOT a Christian nation.

[James]

Imagine that! Atheists making the ridiculous claim that America was NOT a Christian nation.

LOL !!

Who would have thought.

[LurkerNoMore]

When you see how Christian nuts cling to their delusions so feverishly, it is no surprise the Constitution was written and clearly spelled out that this is a secular nation.

Because...

So once again for the benefit of the slow ones on board...

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now. 

[MCWAY]

When you see how Christian nuts cling to their delusions so feverishly, it is no surprise the Constitution was written and clearly spelled out that this is a secular nation.

Because...

The Constitution says no such thing, O phonically-challenged one.

What the MEN, WHO SIGNED AND WROTE THAT CONSTITUTION say about our nation, destroy your senseless musings.

And your inability to address direct questions put to you continue to show your lack of intellectual and testicular fortitude.

One more time....

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” - John Jay

"I had the honor of being one who framed that Constitution. In order effectually to accomplish these great ends set forth in the Constitution, it is especially the duty of those who bear rule to promote and encourage respect for God and virtue and to discourage every degree of vice and immorality" - Henry Laurens

"The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams

I'll take what the Founding Fathers (the men who actually wrote, signed, and governed by the Constitution) actually said about this country, over a sniveling coward like you.

[LurkerNoMore]

LOL @ the attempt to shove Christianity down the throats of an entire nation.  Especially when it was established as a secular one.
Religious nuts just don't quit.  Which is why the Constitution is not religious based by any means.

So once again for the benefit of the slow ones on board...

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now. 

[MCWAY]

LOL @ the attempt to shove Christianity down the throats of an entire nation.  Especially when it was established as a secular one.
Religious nuts just don't quit.  Which is why the Constitution is not religious based by any means.

Wrong again!!!

I simply post what the Founding Fathers said, point blank. And since you're too big of a coward to acknowledge that, you continue to cluck and whine like the feathered 5th-grader that you are.

[Soul Crusher]

I cant believe how long this thread is lasting. 

[MCWAY]

I cant believe how long this thread is lasting. 

What can I say? As long as I find it entertaining to watch Lurker make a complete fool of himself, I can keep this up for weeks.

If he gets any more in denial, I'm going to start thinking he's Egyptian. It ain't rocket science. The Founding Fathers stated that this is a Christian nation, that our laws are based, in part, on the Ten Commandments.

And these men WROTE THE CONSTITUTION. So, am I to deny what they say, in favor of a crackpot who's too chicken to answer a simple question about Sarah Palin, who's deluded into thinking that the Democrats are going to enjoy decades of power (even while these geese are being sizzled, as we speak, with mid-terms on the horizon)?

[LurkerNoMore]

I cant believe how long this thread is lasting. 

You know how delusional Christians are.  They can't let go of something even when facts and logic confront them. 

If they had independent thought processes, they would realize the irony in claiming a christian nation was established by a document that violates every biblical law in the "good book".

But lacking independent thought process, they fail to see that.  Nothing new here.  Part of the frustrations they have for living in a secular nation I suppose.

[MCWAY]

You know how delusional Christians are.  They can't let go of something even when facts and logic confront them. 

Back in that hall of mirrors, I see.

If they had independent thought processes, they would realize the irony in claiming a christian nation was established by a document that violates every biblical law in the "good book".

But lacking independent thought process, they fail to see that.  Nothing new here.  Part of the frustrations they have for living in a secular nation I suppose.

Not only do you suck at presenting facts, apparently you aren't that good at reading emotions. Stick to your day job.

The simple truth is that we have what the Founding Fathers said about the nature of this country. And the reason you keep running like a scalded dog is because those facts CLOBBER your delusion.

That's why you won't own up to the fact that your assertion about the Treaty of Tripoli was DEAD WRONG.

That's why you slither away, when the ACTUAL WORDS of the Founding Fathers trounce your brain-dead tripe.

Man up, for once, and face what's being addressed. Otherwise, if you're scared, say you're scared.

[LurkerNoMore]

If they had independent thought processes, they would realize the irony in claiming a christian nation was established by a document that violates every biblical law in the "good book".

Because....

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now.

[MCWAY]

You would realize how stupid you sound, if you could grasp that the men, WHO ACTUALLY WROTE THE CONSTITUTION, stated that America is a Christian nation.

And, just out of morbid curiosity, how does the Constitution supposeldy violate Biblical law, especially when of them pesky FOUNDING FATHERS said......

"The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down." - John Quincy Adams


Let's see, if Lurker actually answers this one, instead of displaying his usual lack of a set and running away.

[LurkerNoMore]

If they had independent thought processes, they would realize the irony in claiming a christian nation was established by a document that violates every biblical law in the "good book".

Because....  First Amendment directly violates First Commandment.  Already been posted before.  But for the slow ones here....

--God was purposely left out of the Constitution
--Jesus - the icon of Christianity - was left out of the Constitution
--America has no established church
-- Every religion and sect known to Man is at home here;
-- Religious and scriptural arguments are invalid in our courts;
-- Religious tests for public office are barred by the Constitution.
--Church and state is separated

America is not a Christian nation.

Pretending it is simply because of your own insecurities and lack of independent thought process is not going to make it so.

Baby Jeebus is weeping over your stupidity right now.

[James]

Damn Lurker,  you really have made a fool of yourself.

[LurkerNoMore]

Damn Lurker,  you really have made a fool of yourself.

Not really.

I take it you can't read either.

[pellius]

Because we are not talking about culture and society.  

We are talking about the nation from a governmental standpoint.  Which seems to be an extremely hard topic for some people to stay on.  

If it isn't about the nation and our government, it is not the topic I am talking about.

I have freely conceded that the Founders wanted a secular government. No establishment of any religion. It is you who so adamantly insist that we are a secular nation.

If it could be shown that the city of Compton was majority Black. Could we call that city predominately Black?

If it could be shown that say, the majority of the people in the State of Utah, considered themselves Mormon. Could we say that Utah is predominately a Mormon State?

If it could be shown that the majority of the people living in Idaho considered themselves Republican. Could we say that it is a majority Republican State? Maybe even assign it a color?

If it could be shown that the majority of the nation (75%>) considered themselves Christian? Could we say that nation is predominately Christian?
  

[James]

Not really.

I take it you can't read either.

I have read you repeating the same shit over and over, and not answering his questions...

I have watched day after day, as MCWAY makes a fool of you.

Seems you are the one with a reading comprehension problem.

[MCWAY]

Let's see:

First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

First Commandment:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

And the First amendment violates the First Commandment, because..........

[LurkerNoMore]

I have read you repeating the same shit over and over, and not answering his questions...

I have watched day after day, as MCWAY makes a fool of you.

Seems you are the one with a reading comprehension problem.

The last question was answered in that quote.
Previous questions already answered.

So did you miss them or can you just not read?  Which is it?

[LurkerNoMore]

I have freely conceded that the Founders wanted a secular government. No establishment of any religion. It is you who so adamantly insist that we are a secular nation.

If it could be shown that the city of Compton was majority Black. Could we call that city predominately Black?

If it could be shown that say, the majority of the people in the State of Utah, considered themselves Mormon. Could we say that Utah is predominately a Mormon State?

If it could be shown that the majority of the people living in Idaho considered themselves Republican. Could we say that it is a majority Republican State? Maybe even assign it a color?

If it could be shown that the majority of the nation (75%>) considered themselves Christian? Could we say that nation is predominately Christian?
  

You have answered your own question here.

The % of the population has no bearing on how our nation was established from a governmental standpoint by the Constitution. 

Everything I have stated has been towards a governmental standpoint.  Not a culture/society issue.  The Constitution clearly deals with governmental establishment as a whole and within the context of civil liberties.  Not religious doctrine.

Do you agree?

[MCWAY]

You have answered your own question here.

The % of the population has no bearing on how our nation was established from a governmental standpoint by the Constitution.  

Everything I have stated has been towards a governmental standpoint.  Not a culture/society issue.  The Constitution clearly deals with governmental establishment as a whole and within the context of civil liberties.  Not religious doctrine.

Do you agree?

But, your claim, O myopic one, is that America is a secular NATION. That's as right as two left shoes.

NEWS FLASH!!! A NATION is comprised of its culture and society, NOT JUST ITS GOVERNMENT. And the nature of the Constitution is that (as Dr. King puts it) the church is the conscience of the state, not its master (i.e. Muslim theocracies) nor its slave (i.e. 18th/19th-century England).

The men who signed and wrote the Constitution INSISTED that leaders be Christian ones (the only "establishment" issues were with regards to different Christian denominations).

[LurkerNoMore]

Let's see:

First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

First Commandment:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

And the First amendment violates the First Commandment, because..........

First Amendment places no religion above or below another.  Christianity, Hindu, Pagan worship, Islam, etc.. are all equal.

First Commandment is clearly a Christian principle that excludes all other religions other than Christianity.  You can not be a Christian and worship Allah, or Xendu or the tree outside.   If the First Amendment were based on Christian principles, it would not have placed Christianity on the same level as other religions.  Therefore by allowing the worship and existence of other gods and religions other than Christianity the First Amendment clearly violates the First Commandment.  If it were religious based.  Which it isn't.

[LurkerNoMore]

But, your claim, O myopic one, is that America is a secular NATION. That's as right as two left shoes.

NEWS FLASH!!! A NATION is comprised of its culture and society, NOT JUST ITS GOVERNMENT. And the nature of the Constitution is that (as Dr. King puts it) the church is the conscience of the state, not its master (i.e. Muslim theocracies) nor its slave (i.e. 18th/19th-century England).

Bigger news flash you idiot.  I have been talking about the nation from a government standpoint since page 2.   Not culture.  Not society.

Kind of slow aren't you?

The Constitution establishes nothing in regards to specific culture or society issues.  The Constitution is strictly from a governmental standpoint.

You really attempting to give those two brain cells of yours a run for the money today aren't you?