Author Topic: For 333 - Our Resident Commie Hunter (Read 60922 times)

BodyProSite · « **Reply #275 on:** February 05, 2010, 11:46:33 AM »

#2

??

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #276 on:** February 05, 2010, 11:47:15 AM »

Quote from: BodyProSite on February 05, 2010, 11:46:33 AM

#2 ??

Straw dont want to go near No. 2. You know that.

BodyProSite · « **Reply #277 on:** February 05, 2010, 11:48:27 AM »

I know I just want to hear the excuses and see him squirm, like his daddy obama does under a tough question

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #278 on:** February 05, 2010, 11:52:07 AM »

Quote from: BodyProSite on February 05, 2010, 11:48:27 AM

I know I just want to hear the excuses and see him squirm, like his daddy obama does under a tough question

The best part is that he lost this debate just by how he framed his question to me. All I have to do is name 1 out of the 10 that comes close.

Off the bat he is DOA on at least 2 of the 10 without any debate at all.

BodyProSite · « **Reply #279 on:** February 05, 2010, 12:00:09 PM »

Yea but he doesnt get, it and never will as long as his nose is so far up obamas ass that it will snap off if obama turns too fast, like I said, I would like to see him stop paying taxes on property and cars and shit, and see what he has left, Its too bad that some people dont understand that there are things that pave the way for communism , its not just a black and white cut and dry change over night.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #280 on:** February 05, 2010, 12:05:46 PM »

Quote from: BodyProSite on February 05, 2010, 12:00:09 PM

Yea but he doesnt get, it and never will as long as his nose is so far up obamas ass that it will snap off if obama turns too fast, like I said, I would like to see him stop paying taxes on property and cars and shit, and see what he has left, Its too bad that some people dont understand that there are things that pave the way for communism , its not just a black and white cut and dry change over night.

You and I both are business people and know this stuff.

Straw does not.

So lets go to the rest of the list:

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. - DONE AND INCREASING.

3. Abolition of all right of inheritance. - HEAVY ESTATE TAX OF 50% COMING NEXT YEAR AND MANY STATES LEVY AN ESTATE TAX ON TOP OF THE FED.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. - need to research that but have read convincing arguments.

5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. - DONE - FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM.

6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. - 1/2 WAY THERE AT LEAST. I WILL PROVDE DETAILS LATER. THIS IS ANOTHER NO BRAINER THAT WE ARE MOVING TOWARDS THIS.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. - MANY STEPS ARE BEING TAKEN IN THIS DIRECTION. AGAIN - WILL PROVIDE DETAILS LATER AFTER WE DEAL WITH NO. 2.

8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. - SEE ANSWER TO NO. 7

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country. - ANSWERED ON FIRST PAGE.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combinati
on of education with industrial production.[8] - DONE.

SAMSON123 · « **Reply #281 on:** February 05, 2010, 12:35:24 PM »

Quote from: 333386 on February 05, 2010, 10:48:34 AM

Straw read this with an open mind
________________________ ________________________ ___________-

Do You Reallly Own
Anything Except Toilet Paper?
By Ted Twietmeyer
tedtw@frontiernet.net
9-27-6

This is a subject not unlike the chicken-egg story. What exactly IS "ownership?" We'll look past the obvious fiat currency (Federal Reserve Notes) everyone carries in their pocket. But before we really delve into this subject, let's see what the "mainstream" thinking is about this word. After all, everything you have from the chair you're sitting on to the computer you're reading this with, to the roof over your head - all hinges on the *perceived* security of ownership. Even renting may be perceived as a form of ownership. While you're the tenant you have control of an apartment or house and you define who can come and go, who can stay with you, etc... until your lease expires. The past five years have seen new restrictions and laws quietly placed on renters and property owners.

The Merriam-Webster's dictionary definition of "ownership" with just one small sentence: "the state, relation, or fact of being an owner." [1] Isn't that a real fountain of information to answer our question!

However, Britannica does a far better job of defining "ownership:"

"the legal relation between a person (individual, group, corporation, or government) and an object. The object may be corporeal, such as furniture, or completely the creature of law, such as a patent, copyright, or annuity; it may be movable, such as an animal, or immovable, such as land. Because the objects of property and the protected relations are different in every culture and vary according to law, custom, and economic system and the relative social status of those who enjoy its privileges, it is difficult to find a least common denominator of "ownership." Ownership of property probably means at a minimum that one's government or society will help to exclude others from the use or enjoyment of one's possession without one's consent, which may be withheld except at a price." [2]

Now we have something more definitive to look at. It describes a "legal relationship" between a person and an object which can be anything like an intangible or non-physical asset such as a patent or intellectual property, to having real estate. It's interesting the phrase "creature of law," which seems to imply law has a life of it's own. But for ownership, it is the law that defines what you are and are not allowed to own. Some things come and go in popularity. For example, ammonium nitrate isn't a material anyone should brag about owning. A large volume of it can bring on a storm trooper visit from the men in the black suits. The last phrase indicates that ownership isn't a certainty, by stating that "probably" the government or society will defend your right to ownership by excluding use by others. Certainly no one can own the simple right to privacy anymore. That wasn't just recently taken away, but it happened decades ago. The government is just now getting around to let you know this, and how good it is for you.

What's quite fascinating about all this is how money makes it possible to do illegal acts - legally! For example, going fishing or hunt without a license. Sooner or later a you'll hear a voice behind you in the woods saying, "Game warden - let me see your license." Having a license for anything - whether it be driving a car, hunting, fishing, boating or many other activities will make that illegal act OK! Makes perfect sense, right? So what does this have to do with ownership? Actually, quite a bit. Because the common denominator for both licenses AND owning anything is the use of money to pay for all licenses. No other means of payment will be accepted. And that money of course, is the infamous Federal Reserve Note. Remember that although the note states "legal tender for all debts..." it absolutely doesn't mean that anyone else can pay a debt in full simply by handing someone a note. A "note" implies debt. Period. The privately run "Federal Reserve" has illegally been given the right to do this against Constitutional law, which has created this defacto standard way of creating money out of nothing more than rags, special paper and thin air.

But wait a minute - those notes you use to pay for everything you "own" are worthless. What then? This is where is gets even more interesting. The entire American economic system (and probably those of other countries even though not publicly stated) are based on NOTES. These glorified "IOUs" are backed by absolutely nothing tangible. The note trick is nothing new - the Knights Templar hundreds of years ago started this by issuing notes to travelers. At the start of a long journey, travelers went to a local Templar and in return for giving him all their cash, he issued the traveler a note and provided protection where needed during the trip. At the end of the journey the traveler cashed it and got their money back, minus a fee. This was the first version of a traveler's check! If somehow the traveler was robbed on the highway, he/she would have no money to lose. The Templar note would be useless to anyone else. Today we're still using notes - but with a big difference. We CANNOT cash them in for real money! If you walk into any bank and ask a teller to give you change or real money for a "legal tender" $100.00 bill, you'll be handed more fake notes in exchange for your fake note! The same is true for checks, too. You cannot cash anything in no matter what, since notes are used to pay for notes. You can use the notes to buy gold, but gold is no longer considered legal tender to pay debts. You'll have to convert the gold back into a useless note to use it!

One doesn't have to be an economic wizard like Joseph Stiglitz to see the giant house of cards this scheme represents.

Now let's assume that somehow you could obtain REAL currency. Some think the Euro dollar is real money, since it's "supposedly" backed by gold. But to date, there have been no photos of the skyscraper-sized pile of gold this would require to back all the Euro currency in the world for all of Europe. Someone right now is yelling "you idiot, the gold is scattered all over the world in banks and vaults!" Yes, that MAY be true. So I say, show me ONE big gold pile shrink wrapped in plastic with a sign on it "Reserved for Backing the Euro - cannot be sold or traded."

Personally, I think the Euro is just another *note* without real backing, just like the US dollar is. The Europeans are simply not telling anyone about it, or perhaps are lying. Of course, in today's mindset people think only the US government will lie and no other governments will (except dictatorships.) There was a highly successful business organization better known as the Knights Templar, which grew in wealth to back the Holy See and monarchies of Europe. Can we believe that this highly profitable organization became extinct? After a just a few years in business proving travelers an important service, these men were perceived as threatening and too powerful. Eventually Philip the Fourth attempted to exterminate them.[3] Many historians believe they just went underground. After almost 1,000 years, now they may be running the entire planet's currency - keeping it based on notes.

So let's forget the Euro dollar and think bigger by using real GOLD to pay debts. If you could get the bank to accept gold (and not notes which is the only "legal tender" today) can you really own your home free and clear, and live there for free the rest of your life? No. There are the endless taxes "levied" every year on your home. These are really just rent to allow you to live there, even if you own it free and clear. One can also look at it as a form of RENT paid to the state. You can own your home AND the land it sits on free and clear of any mortgage - but you still must pay yearly taxes (i.e. rent) forever.

There's no way to call a house moving company and remove the actual "land" (i.e., the top 10ft. of soil) and the land that your home is actually attached to, separating it from the dirt below. Of course, you could move just the home itself. But that will cost you at least $20,000+ to move it a few feet or hundreds of feet. But now what? You'll have to move that house down the road - to yet ANOTHER piece of land for which you will have to pay taxes (i.e., rent.) This will accomplish nothing.

You may own an automobile like millions do. But you need a registration to drive it! And a state inspection sticker, too. (Really just another license.) And to drive? You'll need a license for that, too. It's completely illegal to drive anything on the road, but buying a license (and filling out endless forms) makes it legal for awhile until it expires. Therefore, you actually need at least three licenses just to drive the car you "own" down the road. In fact, you just might end up paying more concealed rent - disguised as a fee at a toll booth.

OK, let's forget about trying to own or rent a home. Do what the late Chris Farley screamed at the rebellious children in a famous SNL skit - "you're gonna be livin' on a steady diet of government cheese, in a van .....down by the river!" What if you did live down by the river? You'll still have to buy soap to wash your clothes on the rocks and purchase toilet paper. Leaves will make you chaff in no time when fall comes. You'll need monopoly fiat notes to pay for that river life - including the toilet paper.

Although everything is now purchased using worthless notes - the principal still exists that you can never actually be debt-free until you settle up for ALL the notes you ever used in your life to buy things with. That's the principal behind debt forgiveness with NESARA.[4] Paying off all these notes in your pocket with real money is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to accomplish. There is no known form of payment that the Federal Reserve will take for these notes. Why? Simply because they were worthless to begin with, and taking payment for them would make the Federal Reserve guilty of fraud. Every bank loan is fake "money" created out of thin air when the document is signed by a bank officer.

So what's the bottom line? It doesn't matter whether you work at a job or receive investment or interest income to live on. You still receive a fiat note when you cash in your checks, make a withdrawal or receive a direct deposit. But about that employer or investment house who just paid you? They owe for their notes just like you do! So you are paid with worthless paper since none of it can ever be paid off. This is why at the beginning of this article I called this the chicken-egg syndrome. President Kennedy wanted to stop this madness - and he was quickly rewarded with lead poisoning.

BEYOND NOTES

But we're not done yet. Think about what ownership really is...and what it REALLY means outside of the note problem. At one time there was a payment system that worked well for centuries. People exchanged something valuable for something they needed to have. You cannot really OWN anything forever even if its paid for - because when you die everything stays behind. And then a relative or friend takes possession of it until they die or give it away, too. (Now you know the secret of yard sales - junk passing from one yard sale to another. Just like the dreaded fruit cake showing up at Christmas time.) The one thing you own and we all have used is toilet paper. A single-use item no one wants to take home. You can be certain that after you die your possessions will be picked through by teary-eyed vulture-relatives. But if a substantial amount of toilet paper is still on a roll, at least one enterprising person will take that unused roll home with them. It might even "surface" at their next yard sale. Then it can be sold (using yet another note) to someone else.

In the final analysis, everything you own can be considered as simply borrowed. Whether you own it or not, that doesn't matter. The same is true of any item like a car, furniture or computer, regardless of how many payments you made. If you die before the lease term is up, then the item must go back to the store. And all those payments you made all your life by paying for notes with notes? The bottom line is that it was all for nothing. Ownership truly is simply a disguised rental.

You can move to Africa or South America, and live in the jungle to try and escape it the problem. But that won't work either, as in most tribes no one really owns anything - and everything must be shared. Did you say you are going down there and you are MARRIED? Oh, I am sorry to hear that! You might want to re-think that decision and consider the implications of sharing your spouse with others.

Perhaps it's far better to simply not to be a materialist in the first place...

Ted Twietmeyer
www.bookonmars.info

________________________ ________________________ _____________________

Straw - open your mind and see the reality for what I have been arguing for the past 11 pages. You dont own squat.

You know the old saying holds true here 3

YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK....

Sadly in america many home owners learned the hard way that they really don't own anything, when they found themselves living in tent cities, shelters, moving in with parents, on the streets etc etc. Straw obviously does not own a single thing lest his understanding would be acutely higher than where it is today. Just scrolling through these posts is mind boggling that people do not understand that in all actuality they are at best LEASING the land and house that they "own". Even when mortgages are paid off, land is fully acquired, property is purchased with receipts stamped paid in full, the government will take any and all of it for failure to pay taxes on land and/or a house of which the "owner" has already made full payment on. Seems Straw must understand that though property tax is illegal (unless there is a business being run from that property) the government will still take the property and sell it for failure to pay taxes on it. This is nothing new...it has been around since taxes were levied on properties. There is an old film called THE GRAPES OF WRATH (I suggest everyone watch it) that shows how the government, in another staged financial collapse (Depression), went through the farming belt areas of america and literally bulldozed down homes adn snatched properties and sold them, from people who could not pay the taxes. It is a sad movie, but a record of history showing how government, taxes, bankers etc have all worked toward the destruction of people, families, businesses, homes, land etc.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #282 on:** February 05, 2010, 12:43:39 PM »

Even when mortgages are paid off, land is fully acquired, property is purchased with receipts stamped paid in full, the government will take any and all of it for failure to pay taxes on land and/or a house of which the "owner" has already made full payment on

________________________ _________________-

This has been my point from page one.

BodyProSite · « **Reply #283 on:** February 05, 2010, 12:57:20 PM »

lets see how he rufutes and trys to twist 2-10

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #284 on:** February 05, 2010, 01:05:11 PM »

Quote from: BodyProSite on February 05, 2010, 12:57:20 PM

lets see how he rufutes and trys to twist 2-10

No. 2 is a slam dunk.

BodyProSite · « **Reply #285 on:** February 05, 2010, 01:08:38 PM »

yea that is why he wanted to cling to #1 lol and its even better in the fact that if you dont do number 2 as a citizen they will come in and do #1 but he still disputes this , you dont pay your income tax and they can take everything, even your pay check but he still thinks he really owns shit lol

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #286 on:** February 05, 2010, 01:44:47 PM »

Quote from: BodyProSite on February 05, 2010, 01:08:38 PM

yea that is why he wanted to cling to #1 lol and its even better in the fact that if you dont do number 2 as a citizen they will come in and do #1 but he still disputes this , you dont pay your income tax and they can take everything, even your pay check but he still thinks he really owns shit lol

This might be the biggest backfire thread ever.

BodyProSite · « **Reply #287 on:** February 05, 2010, 01:50:23 PM »

and most comical too

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #288 on:** February 05, 2010, 02:18:53 PM »

Quote from: BodyProSite on February 05, 2010, 01:50:23 PM

and most comical too

Can anyone address No. 2 please or do we agree that we already have a progessive income tax and meet the criteria of the communist manifesto?

BodyProSite · « **Reply #289 on:** February 05, 2010, 02:30:48 PM »

I dont think any of the liberal goof troop want anything to do with this thread cause they know its the truth and cant be twisted denied or excused.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #290 on:** February 05, 2010, 02:32:16 PM »

Quote from: BodyProSite on February 05, 2010, 02:30:48 PM

I dont think any of the liberal goof troop want anything to do with this thread cause they know its the truth and cant be twisted denied or excused.

Straw, Blacken, Mons, Lurker, Benny, KC, Al, anyone on No 2?

BodyProSite · « **Reply #291 on:** February 05, 2010, 02:36:31 PM »

Maybe they are just to busy trying to dig something up on palins grand baby and watching racheal maddaw

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #292 on:** February 05, 2010, 02:39:54 PM »

Quote from: BodyProSite on February 05, 2010, 02:36:31 PM

Maybe they are just to busy trying to dig something up on palins grand baby and watching racheal maddaw

Since there has been utter silence on No 2, I will take that to mean everyone admits No 2 of the communist manifesto is already in America.

On to No 3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.

Lets see, 45% estate tax, probate court, state inheritance tax, and libs left and right arguing for its aboltion - Straw by definition, will you agree we are 50% of the way there on this?

Skip8282 · « **Reply #293 on:** February 05, 2010, 02:48:05 PM »

Quote from: 333386 on February 05, 2010, 02:18:53 PM

Can anyone address No. 2 please or do we agree that we already have a progessive income tax and meet the criteria of the communist manifesto?

Alright...I'll give it a shot based on previous arguments.

My view is right, yours is wrong. You're just parsing words, you're clearly wrong. We cannot move onto #3 until you admit you are wrong, and agree with my point of view. You haven't been posting any evidence. You are wrong. You have been owned.

I have destroyed you into oblivion with my denials of your evidence (which I refuse to admit is evidence). You will not recover. Once you agree that you will not recover and give me high fives, we can then move on to #3.

BodyProSite · « **Reply #294 on:** February 05, 2010, 02:50:26 PM »

lol that shit is funny skip

SAMSON123 · « **Reply #295 on:** February 05, 2010, 07:28:44 PM »

I will throw a wrench in on the number two issue of taxes..

Here is just a partial list of the TAX americans are forced to pay...mind you I said just a PARTIAL list of taxes...and some think a heavy progressive or graduated income tax does not exist or is not a problem. At least in Canada, Europe and other nations their heavy taxes allow free medical, free education up to PhD level and a lot of other benefits

Estate Tax
capital Gains Tax
Estate Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
CDL License Tax
Auto Registration Tax
Food License Tax
Gasoline Tax (50 cents per gallon)
Inheritance tax
Fishing License Tax
Dog License Tax (this is ridiculous)
Building Permit Taxes
Hunting License Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges (tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Tax
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic permit Tax
Service Charge tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle TAX
School Tax
Road Toll Booth Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
TElephon Universal Fee Tax
Telephone Federal/State/Local Surcharge Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Tax
Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurrign and Non Recurring Tax
Telephone statae and Local Tax
Toll Bridge Tax
Toll Tunnel Tax
Traffic Fine Tax
Trailer Registration Tax
Utility Tax
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Water Craft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Comp Tax

And this is just a partial list...It was Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall who said " The Power To Tax Is The Power To Destroy"... Ya don't say..

Skip8282 · « **Reply #296 on:** February 05, 2010, 08:16:03 PM »

Can't believe I'm saying this, but damn good post SAMSON!

SAMSON123 · « **Reply #297 on:** February 05, 2010, 09:22:03 PM »

Quote from: Skip8282 on February 05, 2010, 08:16:03 PM

Can't believe I'm saying this, but damn good post SAMSON!

BodyProSite · « **Reply #298 on:** February 05, 2010, 09:45:46 PM »

Where did Straw go? HERE STRAW, STRAW, STRAW, STRAW?

Al Doggity · « **Reply #299 on:** February 06, 2010, 12:37:52 AM »

Do many of the planks listed apply to America as it is today? Yes.

Is America slowly becoming a communist country? No.

The reason this is so is because America has always incorporated elements of socialism into its political makeup. America is not a democracy and the founding fathers never described it as such. Their blueprint for the country was a compilation of the most practical planks from various political ideologies. There are some elements of socialism, but it is wholly distinct from socialism because it contains a heavy focus on capitalism and personal liberty.

I think Straw hit all of the most relevant points in regards to number one. Land is a finite resource so owning it comes with conditions that are community-minded. If you must call that socialism, then so be it. However, property taxes predate socialism. Property taxes are as old as civilized society.

And, yes, we have a graduated tax system, but it's funny because that significantly relates to plank one on a big scale. You've spent almost a dozen pages arguing about how ownership isn't real because the government wants to take all of your shit, but part of the logic behind graduated taxes is making sure those with the ability to pay do and those who can't are protected. The gov't doesn't want to be in the business of owning stuff. They just want the tax revenue. That's always been the case.

Flat taxes have been tried at various points throughout the countries' history and, as they were instituted, they were usually shown to be fundamentally problematic. Aside from the above paragraph, one of the major problems with flat taxes is that the rich just had better avenues to avoid taxes. I skipped over a lot of this thread, but I did catch the post someone made about how tax revenues rose during Reagan's admin because he cut the top tax rate. That's not accurate. One of the major things Reagan did along with the tax cut was tightening loopholes in the tax code. He actually raised taxes every subsequent year of his presidency to the point that he had repealed more than half of the 1981 tax cut by the time he left office. And tax revenues rose faster in the following decade.

So, just on those two points we see that while our system of government may share similarities with socialism, they are a means to a different end. Many taxes are ridiculous, but some are reasonable and necessary. This country was built on them. It fostered capitalism, as did regulation.