Does fat make you fat?

[clued-up]

good shape.. what type of stack do you run?

[Coach is Back!]

Holy shit - you trained with Pearl?
How the hell did you swing that?

I’ve read that Pearl was a vegetarian.
Since you were around the man for four years, what was his diet like, then?

And yes, you should smack yourself with a 45 for not taking pictures with those guys!
 

I used to train early in the morning before school from 5:30am to about 7-7:15am. I knew Bill and his brother Harry from when I joined (thats a story in itself) and before I changed my schedule to training in the mornings I was training with Bill's son Phil, Doug Brignole and Drew Pinski (yes, that Drew Pinski) in the evenings. But how it came for me to train with Bill was easy, I used to ask him so many questions he finally said, "just train with us" (he trained with three others) but the catch was I had to come in about an hour early since Bill trained between 4-4:30 in the morning as long as it didn't get in the way of my school work or getting to school on time.

[Eyeball Chambers]

Seems to be in fantastic shape to me.

I take that back coach... 

[Montague]

I used to train early in the morning before school from 5:30am to about 7-7:15am. I knew Bill and his brother Harry from when I joined (thats a story in itself) and before I changed my schedule to training in the mornings I was training with Bill's son Phil, Doug Brignole and Drew Pinski (yes, that Drew Pinski) in the evenings. But how it came for me to train with Bill was easy, I used to ask him so many questions he finally said, "just train with us" (he trained with three others) but the catch was I had to come in about an hour early since Bill trained between 4-4:30 in the morning as long as it didn't get in the way of my school work or getting to school on time.

Good stuff.
They all sound like cool guys.

[Coach is Back!]

Good stuff.
They all sound like cool guys.

I learned alot from Bill. He was the first to teach me to pose in my first show (Coastal USA) along with his wife Judy when I was 16 and gave me my first posing trunks for the show, it was the ones he wore when he won his last Universe contest (I still have those at my mom's house).

[PJim]

Well this is what I know based on scientific study and evidence. A calorie is a calorie. Yes. BUT here's what I think is best if you take into consideration how the body demands and uses macronutrients and there indirect effect.
A.Keep your protein at a moderate level. High protein can raise GH but can lead to low testosterone, get the best of both worlds....look it up. This will give you enough to heal from workouts and the like but not give you so much that your body has to use gluconeogenesis to convert the excess, which, protein being expensive most the time, a waste.
B.Keep your carbs at about double your protein, so if you're taking in 100 grams of protein, make it about 200 grams of carbs. This allows the stimulus of insulin which puts the neccessary building blocks of protein into the muscle cells. BUT, keep the majority of them low GI as a rapid rise in blood sugar will lower growth hormone levels...look it up. As we know as well, if insulin is high, glucagon will be low. The amount of fat burning will be significantly reduced, so keep that insulin secretion at a steady rate for that reason. Keeping the carbs at this level helps maintain test levels aswell...look it up.
C.Eat mainly saturated and monounsaturated fats as these are the only fats that raise testosterone, particularly animal fats, which you will get from lean cuts aswell. Polys are good for the heart but don't raise test. Obviously get in your EFA's to cover brain health, heart health and the other plethora of benefits.
On the subject of GH. Remember, GH is useless without the benefit of insulin! So YES low carb diets raise GH, but you need the aminos at hand in the cell to reap the benefits! Also, keep the carbs low glycemic at night especially as you can almost entirely stop the GH released during the first so many hours of sleep and keep the carbs low glycemic after a workout also! In fact, I make a point of waiting at least 45 mins before I eat and it's usually lower in carbs to gain the benefit of GH release.
20 percent protein 40 percent fats 40 percent carbs. All in all a 3000 calorie diet would be something like 150 grams of protein, 300 grams of carbs and roughly 135 grams of fats. This would be an optimum diet in my opinion based on scientific evidence.

[Wiggs]

Jim is this based on experience?

I'm not against high carb diets as they provide a stable level of energy throughout.  Actually George Farah uses high carb diet and you can see the success of his athletes right now.

You're protein theory goes out the window if you're on anabolics.

[HTexan]

 too much food makes you fat.

[JaggyShortBuff]

too much food makes you fat.

Too much of the right foods make you big.....

[HTexan]

Too much of the right foods make you big.....

no, the working out and recovery makes you big, you just eat to support the cals needed. too much food will still make you fat.

[Van_Bilderass]

Its all genetic.

they will never be able to get or stay lean without killing themselves… constantly. They will be heavy and smooth no matter how many calories they take in. They will simply hold fat..

That's BS. It's genetic in the sense that their appetites are big. But anyone loses fat easily with calorie restriction, and metabolic rates do not differ that greatly.

The more obese you are, the worse you "fat burning genetics" appear to be, the faster you lose fat if put on a diet. This shows there's nothing wrong with the metabolic rate. Look at the obese fat asses on the biggest loser show, they all lose weight very fast. The bigger you are the faster your metabolism, contrary to popular opinion.

It's just that some peoples appetites are big, they just can't stay on a diet. Their systems fight them but it's not an issue of metabolism.

[Van_Bilderass]

Basically, try not to mix carbs and fat.

Timing of nutrients has little if anything to do with body composition. The reason some lose well by not eating carbs at night, for example, is simply due to eating less total calories.

[pellius]

That's BS. It's genetic in the sense that their appetites are big. But anyone loses fat easily with calorie restriction, and metabolic rates do not differ that greatly.

The more obese you are, the worse you "fat burning genetics" appear to be, the faster you lose fat if put on a diet. This shows there's nothing wrong with the metabolic rate. Look at the obese fat asses on the biggest loser show, they all lose weight very fast. The bigger you are the faster your metabolism, contrary to popular opinion.

It's just that some peoples appetites are big, they just can't stay on a diet. Their systems fight them but it's not an issue of metabolism.

Van B on point. There is nothing, nothing genetically that will prevent a person from losing weight. It will be harder for some than for others. But with calorie restriction everyone will lose weight. Don't believe me. Spend six months in a concentration camp or a Thai prison.

There are in fact genetic conditions that will prevent a person from gaining weight. Their body will only process on so many calories. I read where Abe Lincoln had this condition. But no one gets to 300-400 pounds eating celery sticks.

[Wiggs]

Van B on point. There is nothing, nothing genetically that will prevent a person from losing weight. It will be harder for some than for others. But with calorie restriction everyone will lose weight. Don't believe me. Spend six months in a concentration camp or a Thai prison.

There are in fact genetic conditions that will prevent a person from gaining weight. Their body will only process on so many calories. I read where Abe Lincoln had this condition. But no one gets to 300-400 pounds eating celery sticks.

Well said

[Van_Bilderass]

But with calorie restriction everyone will lose weight. Don't believe me. Spend six months in a concentration camp or a Thai prison.

Exactly, there were no obese people in the concentration camps during WWII. This example should shut up those who claim some people simply don't burn fat when restricting calories, but unfortunately it doesn't. I've read about some genetic disease where most calories go to fat but it's like 1 person out of a billion who has this, you could count them on one hand.

Most fat people can't count calories. There was some study showing fat people to underestimate their calorie intake by something like 50%. They will swear they eat "nothing" while hiding Snickers bars under their pillow.

[pellius]

Exactly, there were no obese people in the concentration camps during WWII. This example should shut up those who claim some people simply don't burn fat when restricting calories, but unfortunately it doesn't. I've read about some genetic disease where most calories go to fat but it's like 1 person out of a billion who has this, you could count them on one hand.

Most fat people can't count calories. There was some study showing fat people to underestimate their calorie intake by something like 50%. They will swear they eat "nothing" while hiding Snickers bars under their pillow.

A good example was when I was working in Aerospace in California and this one obese girl told me that she doesn't eat much. And when I ask her to tell me a typical day's diet it's true it didn't seem like much. But as I started to keep my eye on her she didn't mention how she was snacking pretty much all day. They always had this snack tray with M&Ms, donuts, brownies and tons of other bake deserts that people would bring in.
She was literally eating constantly. Not stuffing her face but a brownie here some M&Ms there, maybe a cheese stick. Over an 8 hour day that shit adds up.

Now whenever a truly obese person tells me they don't eat a lot I just tell them that whatever it is they are eating it's too much. And I can prove it. YOU'RE FAT! Fat is stored calories. You can only store calories but consuming more calories than you expend. It's that simple.

Losing weight is simple it's just not easy (for most people)

[WillGrant]

This was the result of a high protein, high fat and very low carb diet. When I say high fat I mean anything and everything that didn't have carbs in it.




We were doing "Atkins" before it was even a fad.

Look great there , what was your cycle like back then compared to more recent times? did you always keep constant with your doses or have you tryed higher etc

[wavelength]

Losing weight is simple it's just not easy (for most people)

Actually, I think it's also very easy for most people. They are just given the completely wrong advises by bro-scientific fitness and nutrition "experts".

[Van_Bilderass]

Actually, I think it's also very easy for most people. They are just given the completely wrong advises by bro-scientific fitness and nutrition "experts".

Are we talking about the regular weight people who can't seem to get "ripped" or the morbidly obese, some of whom have always been overweight? If the latter, I think realistically knowledge is unlikely to work. Most likely need pharmacological or surgical interventions. Calorie restriction must be "forced."

[Montague]

That's BS. It's genetic in the sense that their appetites are big. But anyone loses fat easily with calorie restriction, and metabolic rates do not differ that greatly.

The more obese you are, the worse you "fat burning genetics" appear to be, the faster you lose fat if put on a diet. This shows there's nothing wrong with the metabolic rate. Look at the obese fat asses on the biggest loser show, they all lose weight very fast. The bigger you are the faster your metabolism, contrary to popular opinion.

It's just that some peoples appetites are big, they just can't stay on a diet. Their systems fight them but it's not an issue of metabolism.

Good explanation.

Well this is what I know based on scientific study and evidence. A calorie is a calorie. Yes. BUT here's what I think is best if you take into consideration how the body demands and uses macronutrients and there indirect effect.
A.Keep your protein at a moderate level. High protein can raise GH but can lead to low testosterone, get the best of both worlds....look it up. This will give you enough to heal from workouts and the like but not give you so much that your body has to use gluconeogenesis to convert the excess, which, protein being expensive most the time, a waste.
B.Keep your carbs at about double your protein, so if you're taking in 100 grams of protein, make it about 200 grams of carbs. This allows the stimulus of insulin which puts the neccessary building blocks of protein into the muscle cells. BUT, keep the majority of them low GI as a rapid rise in blood sugar will lower growth hormone levels...look it up. As we know as well, if insulin is high, glucagon will be low. The amount of fat burning will be significantly reduced, so keep that insulin secretion at a steady rate for that reason. Keeping the carbs at this level helps maintain test levels aswell...look it up.
C.Eat mainly saturated and monounsaturated fats as these are the only fats that raise testosterone, particularly animal fats, which you will get from lean cuts aswell. Polys are good for the heart but don't raise test. Obviously get in your EFA's to cover brain health, heart health and the other plethora of benefits.
On the subject of GH. Remember, GH is useless without the benefit of insulin! So YES low carb diets raise GH, but you need the aminos at hand in the cell to reap the benefits! Also, keep the carbs low glycemic at night especially as you can almost entirely stop the GH released during the first so many hours of sleep and keep the carbs low glycemic after a workout also! In fact, I make a point of waiting at least 45 mins before I eat and it's usually lower in carbs to gain the benefit of GH release.
20 percent protein 40 percent fats 40 percent carbs. All in all a 3000 calorie diet would be something like 150 grams of protein, 300 grams of carbs and roughly 135 grams of fats. This would be an optimum diet in my opinion based on scientific evidence.

Good post – you seem to know your shit.
You’ve done your homework on hGH release, too.
The only thing I would add is:

While it is advisable to avoid high GI carbs at night, I would add even the complex ones to the list as well.
JMO, but since complex ones stay in the system longer, you may want to cut them out (or at least, consume most of them) even earlier than higher GI – maybe by lunch. 

Somatotroph hGH secretion is stimulated by low fatty acids, low carbs, and high amino acids.
For that reason, I’ve always felt that dessicated, defatted liver tablets are a great source of nutrition just prior to bed – practically pure amino acids & other benefits of red meat w/out any of the undesirables.

[Montague]

I learned alot from Bill. He was the first to teach me to pose in my first show (Coastal USA) along with his wife Judy when I was 16 and gave me my first posing trunks for the show, it was the ones he wore when he won his last Universe contest (I still have those at my mom's house).

Ha!
So that's where Stallone got the idea for Rocky III when Apollo gave Rocky his boxing trunks for the big fight with Mr. T.
 

Seriously, that's awsome.
You'll have those memories for the rest of your life.

[wavelength]

Are we talking about the regular weight people who can't seem to get "ripped" or the morbidly obese, some of whom have always been overweight? If the latter, I think realistically knowledge is unlikely to work. Most likely need pharmacological or surgical interventions. Calorie restriction must be "forced."

Some are lost cases, no doubt. But IMO, the majority is just fed this bullshit of "clean" dieting with foods they hate to eat. Here's what I would do: lay out a plan where there is a definite number they should weigh every morning, decreasing over time. They must step on the scale in the morning. If they are above target weight, they must skip one meal. If not, they can eat all of their meals. If it doesn't work, they must skip two meals. If they are used to snacking during the day, they should replace that with sipping on a protein shake.

[clued-up]

That's BS. It's genetic in the sense that their appetites are big. But anyone loses fat easily with calorie restriction, and metabolic rates do not differ that greatly.

It's just that some peoples appetites are big, they just can't stay on a diet. Their systems fight them but it's not an issue of metabolism.

Everything is genetic… that’s why I can eat as much as I want and not become obese. I have a huge appetite. Sure, if you STARVE anyone they will lose weight. Some people must be born with more fat cells.. or something. They hold more fat, even as kids.

[wavelength]

Everything is genetic… that’s why I can eat as much as I want and not become obese. I have a huge appetite. Sure, if you STARVE anyone they will lose weight. Some people must be born with more fat cells.. or something. They hold more fat, even as kids.

You cannot eat as much as you want and not become obese.

[clued-up]

You cannot eat as much as you want and not become obese.

I’ve eaten as much as I wanted my entire life.. I’ve never been obese. Well, maybe by bodybuilding standards.. but not normal *obese*. I literally *stuff* myself on a regular basis. Lots an lots of calories.