How big do you think Phil's arms are gonna get?

[Santa Claus]

Luke, your calculations are correct, but an arm's cross sectional area is not circular, so the concept is not entirely correct.

A circle will give you maximum cross sectional area for a given circumference, but this ratio does not stay constant when the shape of the cross sectional area changes.

To draw this out in the extremes to prove a point:

Your 19.75 inch circle has a cross sectional area of about 30 square inches. Now let's have a rectangle with the same area, of 1 x 30 inches. Its circumference is 1+1+30+30=62 inches.

See where I'm getting at?

[Parker]

Luke, your calculations are correct, but an arm's cross sectional area is not circular, so the concept is not entirely correct.
A circle will give you maximum cross sectional area for a given circumference, but this ratio does not stay constant when the shape of the cross sectional area changes.

To draw this out in the extremes to prove a point:

Your 19.75 inch circle has a cross sectional area of about 30 square inches. Now let's have a rectangle with the same area, of 1 x 30 inches. Its circumference is 1+1+30+30=62 inches.

See where I'm getting at?

And that can throw a calculation off.

[The Luke]

And that can throw a calculation off.

...only by a few percent.
A 30x1 rectangle is a ridiculous extreme that doesn't model the actual measurement; the actual variance is insignificant.

If you model the upper arm cross section with a perfect circle... you get the ratio of two squares.

If you model with ellipses or ovoids you might get a better approximation but the difference between the major and minor axes is insignificant... bringing us back to a simple ratio of squares.  


The most obvious answer here is that you guys are all in denial...

Take Mesomorph78 for example, he's still insisting his arms are 19.5'' despite posting a video of them measuring 18.6''... well, sorry to break the bad news, but a 19.5'' arm is a full 10% bigger than an 18.6'' arm... you'd have to gain 20 lbs of solid muscle to make that jump.


I don't see why I need to labour this point... Ronnie has never shown his arms to be more than 22''... so why believe this 24'' figure? Such a variance would require a 70-100 lb change in bodyweight.

We have two videos showing a measurement of 21.7'' for an off-season (post 2003 blow-up) Ronnie... and one UNVERIFIED CLAIM of 24''.


Stop drinking the CoolAid guys... a male silver-back gorilla wouldn't have a 24'' arm, unless his bodyweight exceeded 550 lbs.


The Luke

[Parker]

...only by a few percent.
A 30x1 rectangle is a ridiculous extreme that doesn't model the actual measurement; the actual variance is insignificant.

If you model the upper arm cross section with a perfect circle... you get the ratio of two squares.

If you model with ellipses or ovoids you might get a better approximation but the difference between the major and minor axes is insignificant... bringing us back to a simple ratio of squares.  


The most obvious answer here is that you guys are all in denial...

Take Mesomorph78 for example, he's still insisting his arms are 19.5'' despite posting a video of them
measuring 18.6''... well, sorry to break the bad news, but a 19.5'' arm is a full 10% bigger than an 18.6'' arm... you'd have to gain 20 lbs of solid muscle to make that jump.


I don't see why I need to labour this point... Ronnie has never shown his arms to be more than 22''... so why believe this 24'' figure? Such a variance would require a 70-100 lb change in bodyweight.

We have two videos showing a measurement of 21.7'' for an off-season (post 2003 blow-up) Ronnie... and
one UNVERIFIED CLAIM of 24''.


Stop drinking the CoolAid guys... a male silver-back gorilla wouldn't have a 24'' arm, unless his bodyweight exceeded 550 lbs.

The Luke

I think that there are a hell of alot of male slver back gorillas that are 550...but we can agree to disagree. As Mes had said two women can weigh the same, but one can have a 30 butt and the can have a 42 inch butt...

But know this, a male Silverback gorilla has a 2.5 dick...please don't answer on that one

[mesmorph78]

If I posted a vid and proved my point I'm sure u would come up with a very concrete explanation as to why it could never be eg I pinched the tape... Dude make no mistake my arms are hard defined and I've nineteen and a half inches so I know ronnie having twenty four inches is very real.

[Danimal77]

In both of the videos where his arms measured 55-56 cm he was over 320 lbs.

If your guesstimate was right then the average trainer could expect to see their own arm measurement fluctuate by as much as 1.5'' every time they changed a few bodyfat percentage points.


This is just like the "Myth of the Pump": everyone believes a good bicep/tricep pump adds an inch or more to their upper arms... actually no: at most it's 0.25'' to 0.5''.

Why you guys are so fixated on this 24'' number is just beyond me...
Sean Ray...       210 lbs... 18.5'' arms  
Lee Haney...     240 lbs... 19'' arms
Vince Taylor...  230 lbs... 19.75'' arms
Lee Priest...     235 lbs... 21.5'' arms (short-armed freak)
Ahnuld...          240 lbs... 20'' arms
Dorian Yates... 260 lbs... 19.5'' arms (at best)
Ronnie...          280 lbs... 21-22'' arms

A 23'' arm happens somewhere around 300-320 lbs... a 24'' arm happens somewhere around 350 lbs: face facts.


The Luke

You really are a hater, aren't you?

[kiwiol]

The Luke using 10,000 words as usual, when 10 would suffice. Why the hell does cross sectional area have to be considered for a simple arm measurement?

All of his guesstimates of the pros' arm sizes are obviously wrong.

A 23'' arm happens somewhere around 300-320 lbs... a 24'' arm happens somewhere around 350 lbs: face facts.

That's a non-sequitur. Erik Fankhouser has bigger calves than Toney Freeman even though the latter outweighs him a fair bit. It's the same with arms - depends on the pro.

[The Luke]

What kind of shit is this?

I think that there are a hell of alot of male slver back gorillas that are 550...

I never said there weren't... Did you even read what I wrote?


The Luke

[Captain Equipoise]

...such a clear video.

From thirty feet back in the audience you can clearly see a woman put a tape measure on Ronnie's arm and DECLARE it to be 24 inches.Was she an impartial judge or someone associated with the show or the show's promoter... maybe?

Would you believe ME if I similarly claimed MY arms were 24'' too? 'Cause they are!


Okay, Captain...

Let me explain some basic math to you... an upper arm is a cross sectional area; we use circumference measurements for ease of measurement, but only because this measurement is dependent on cross-section... the thicker your upper arm gets (increase in cross sectional area) the bigger this circumference gets... weight training doesn't lengthen the upper arm, it only thickens it.

The ratio of two cross sectional areas, (be they ovals; elipses or circles) is dependent on the square of the radius.

The cross sectional area of a circle (for the sake of argument) approximates an upper arm: Area = 2 x pi x r² and Circumference = 2 pi r ...where r denotes the upper arm radius.


So the ratio of two arm sizes would be:

Area1/Area2 = (2 pi r₁²)/(2 pi r₂²) ...but of course the constants cancel... =  r₁²/r₂² = (Circumference1/2pi)²/(Circumference2/2pi)² = Circumference1²/Circumference2²

...which of course is simply the ratio of the SQUARES of the circumferences.


So, for example: using an 18'' arm and a 16'' arm... 18²/16² = 324/256 = 1.265

Therefore, an 18'' arm is actually 27% bigger than a 16'' arm... NOT the 13% a simple ratio of measurements might give.



I'm not sure where you got lost reading this thread, Captain.

It's not as if I clearly explained my reasoning:
...and it's not as if I clearly explained the math to someone else including a worked example:

...and it's not as if I provided a second worked example to demonstrate the concept further:
...I'm glad you're the Captain of Equipoise, 'cos you sure ain't the Captain of Reading Comprehension.


The Luke

Dude honestly.. who even cares? you sound more bitter then nasser (if possible) you're trying to tell me a guy as huge as Ronnie (yes, I've met him in person) only has 21" arms...sure some guys exaggerate a little, but s top drinking the haterade, you're taking this to a whole new level.. it's almost like some guy with huge arms banged your girlfriend or you're just stuck with 13" arms like method101

[The Luke]

I'm only stating the basic facts here...

NO ONE under 200 lbs has a genuine 21'' muscular arm... everyone agrees with this one.

NO ONE under 250 lbs has a genuine 22'' muscular arm... but believers disagree 'cos Arnie added an inch to his measurements with each printing of his book.

NO ONE under 290 lbs has a genuine 23'' muscular arm... if anyone did, there'd be a hundred videos on YouTube proving it.

NO ONE under 340 lbs has a genuine 24'' muscular arm... no one has proof.


The arm-circumference-to-bodyweight ratio for GORILLAS doesn't hit 24'' till bodyweight hits 550 lbs.


There are TWO videos showing a post 2003 Ronnie stretching the tape to 21.7'' at a bodyweight over 300 lbs... but it seems I'm wrong, I must have missed the year Ronnie competed at 350 lbs and was a solid 400 lbs off-season.

Yis-is-all-delusional.


The Luke

[JOCKTHEGLIDE]

fella,,you dont know sheit about anyting you know this right you spew shit out your mouth like you raunus or something,,,,phil heath measured by off season of 270 was 24inches he diets down to 21.5inches for comp,,,ronnie was 23.5inch off season 300 plugs pounds also,,,if you want to talk about his arm ratio to weight ratio before he even walked into metroflex you go to talk to donnie when walking in he saw his potential already,,,he had alone 18inch arms at 210lbs,,,with hormones and lifting he pushed it already to 21inchs within year and half training off season,,,,you talk shit like stark is 250lbs and you a competitoeive bodybuilder 

I'm only stating the basic facts here...

NO ONE under 200 lbs has a genuine 21'' muscular arm... everyone agrees with this one.

NO ONE under 250 lbs has a genuine 22'' muscular arm... but believers disagree 'cos Arnie added an inch to his measurements with each printing of his book.

NO ONE under 290 lbs has a genuine 23'' muscular arm... if anyone did, there'd be a hundred videos on YouTube proving it.

NO ONE under 340 lbs has a genuine 24'' muscular arm... no one has proof.


The arm-circumference-to-bodyweight ratio for GORILLAS doesn't hit 24'' till bodyweight hits 550 lbs.


There are TWO videos showing a post 2003 Ronnie stretching the tape to 21.7'' at a bodyweight over 300 lbs... but it seems I'm wrong, I must have missed the year Ronnie competed at 350 lbs and was a solid 400 lbs off-season.

Yis-is-all-delusional.


The Luke

[travisma]

How are you accounting for someones bicep peak when doing this calculation? Surely the overall mass becomes different once you flex and depending on the persons genetic bicep peak it could overall influence the measurement.
In Ronnies case he has a good peak on his bicep which could overall increase the measurement to 24"

I'm only stating the basic facts here...

NO ONE under 200 lbs has a genuine 21'' muscular arm... everyone agrees with this one.

NO ONE under 250 lbs has a genuine 22'' muscular arm... but believers disagree 'cos Arnie added an inch to his measurements with each printing of his book.

NO ONE under 290 lbs has a genuine 23'' muscular arm... if anyone did, there'd be a hundred videos on YouTube proving it.

NO ONE under 340 lbs has a genuine 24'' muscular arm... no one has proof.


The arm-circumference-to-bodyweight ratio for GORILLAS doesn't hit 24'' till bodyweight hits 550 lbs.


There are TWO videos showing a post 2003 Ronnie stretching the tape to 21.7'' at a bodyweight over 300 lbs... but it seems I'm wrong, I must have missed the year Ronnie competed at 350 lbs and was a solid 400 lbs off-season.

Yis-is-all-delusional.


The Luke

[The Luke]

fella,,you dont know sheit about anyting you know this right you spew shit out your mouth like you raunus or something,,,,phil heath measured by off season of 270 was 24inches he diets down to 21.5inches for comp,,,ronnie was 23.5inch off season 300 plugs pounds also,,,if you want to talk about his arm ratio to weight ratio before he even walked into metroflex you go to talk to donnie when walking in he saw his potential already,,,he had alone 18inch arms at 210lbs,,,with hormones and lifting he pushed it already to 21inchs within year and half training off season,,,,you talk shit like stark is 250lbs and you a competitoeive bodybuilder 

If you can't prove it... that doesn't make it legend... it makes it hearsay.


Besides... if Ronnie had 18'' arms at 210, that just confirms my assertion:
18'' arms at 210 lbs
19'' arms at 225ish lbs
20'' arms at 250ish lbs
21'' arms at 280ish lbs
22'' arms at 310ish lbs
23'' arms at 340ish lbs
24'' arms at what? 360 lbs...? 380 lbs?

...you think Ronnie took his 18'' arms (at 210 lbs) to massive 21'' arms within a year and a half of training...? Meaning he had 21'' arms BEFORE he turned pro?

You do know Ronnie started competing at about 210 lbs, right?


Till someone posts proof... it's all just delusion.


The Luke

[#1 Klaus fan]

Remember. If we have two measurements from Ronnie, 21.7 and 24, that you can measure the arms circumference at MAXIMUM with a tape measure. Tape can be placed incorrectly and it can overshoot, but it can't ever underestimate the measurement. So I'm gonna go with the 21.7 inches...

[The Luke]

Remember. If we have two measurements from Ronnie, 21.7 and 24, that you can measure the arms circumference at MAXIMUM with a tape measure. Tape can be placed incorrectly and it can overshoot, but it can't ever underestimate the measurement. So I'm gonna go with the 21.7 inches...

If a friend of mine taped my arm onstage and announced it was 24'' should I expect people to believe that?

It's an old trick... if anyone really had a 24'' arm they'd video a taping... even a pic of a taped 24'' arm should have ELEVEN inches of tape showing.


The Luke

[Captain Equipoise]

If a friend of mine taped my arm onstage and announced it was 24'' should I expect people to believe that?

It's an old trick... if anyone really had a 24'' arm they'd video a taping... even a pic of a taped 24'' arm should have ELEVEN inches of tape showing.


The Luke

Dude, I don't think you're getting it, you seem to be the only one THAT ACTUALLY CARES, nobody else really gives a shit if his arms are 24" or 23" or 22" , all we know is that they're damn big.. there's a video of the woman measuring it at 24" not that it matters if it's dead on or not. You're the only nutcase here that's obsessed with the measurement being off, stating that you want to see clear close up videos of the measuring tape and probably want to inspect the measuring tape afterwards to make sure it meets your strict standards and criteria...fucking loon.

[The Luke]

Dude, I don't think you're getting it, you seem to be the only one THAT ACTUALLY CARES, nobody else really gives a shit if his arms are 24" or 23" or 22" , all we know is that they're damn big.. there's a video of the woman measuring it at 24" not that it matters if it's dead on or not. You're the only nutcase here that's obsessed with the measurement being off, stating that you want to see clear close up videos of the measuring tape and probably want to inspect the measuring tape afterwards to make sure it meets your strict standards and criteria...fucking loon.

I just don't think Ronnie ever had an arm bigger than a 600 lb mountain gorilla.

Why does that upset the nuthuggers so much?


The Luke

[Captain Equipoise]

I just don't think Ronnie ever had an arm bigger than a 600 lb mountain gorilla.

Why does that upset the nuthuggers so much?


The Luke

Hahahaha, I'm not even a Ronnie fan, but I've met the man and he's foooking huge beyond belief..

and again, weight has nothing to do with bicep size, it does in a small way, but it's not significant enough to make a difference, just look at a guy like Lee Priest, that 5'1 midget has arms as big as any of the 5'10 bodybuilders... and gorilla's aren't exactly known for their tremendous arm size.

Maybe you should meet some of these bodybuilders before you spew your made up bullshit..  How about Greg Kovacs? at one point it was said in Musclemag that his arms were 27" now this is most likely made up, but I've met Greg many times (we live in the same city and he used to train 5 minutes from where I live) and I can tell you his arms were the size of a LARGe cell-tech container (not the 2lb one, the 5lb one) they were at least 25" around...again, maybe not 27" but damn big enough that it made my jaw drop

[Devon97]

Ya know , I actually couldn't fall asleeep last night because I was grappling with this delimma

[JOCKTHEGLIDE]

your not hearsay either fella,,,,,you have not proved your info,,,you have no hormone usage, history, no lifting,,,and claim your 230lbs with abs,,,no proof all hearsy

If you can't prove it... that doesn't make it legend... it makes it hearsay.


Besides... if Ronnie had 18'' arms at 210, that just confirms my assertion:
18'' arms at 210 lbs
19'' arms at 225ish lbs
20'' arms at 250ish lbs
21'' arms at 280ish lbs
22'' arms at 310ish lbs
23'' arms at 340ish lbs
24'' arms at what? 360 lbs...? 380 lbs?

...you think Ronnie took his 18'' arms (at 210 lbs) to massive 21'' arms within a year and a half of training...? Meaning he had 21'' arms BEFORE he turned pro?

You do know Ronnie started competing at about 210 lbs, right?


Till someone posts proof... it's all just delusion.


The Luke

[GroinkTropin]

An offseason Ronnie was 330lbs or so. He easily had 24 inch guns pumped.  22 or so dieted down. I have a pic of my buddy shaking hands with him and at the time my friend was 280 and ronnie was 315 or so (was the San Jose show so julyish) and ronnie DWARFED HIM BADLY. BADLY. Ronnie just looks like a mutant, a totally diff animal than any other human being. I have no doubt his arms were really that big none.

[Figo]

The arm-circumference-to-bodyweight ratio for GORILLAS doesn't hit 24'' till bodyweight hits 550 lbs.

There are TWO videos showing a post 2003 Ronnie stretching the tape to 21.7'' at a bodyweight over 300 lbs... but it seems I'm wrong, I must have missed the year Ronnie competed at 350 lbs and was a solid 400 lbs off-season.
The Luke

please stop comparing Ronnie to a gorilla, not only is it racist, but gorillas have been proven and shown to have poor arm genes and terrible range of motion. plus, have you seen their terrible diets, and they're lazy.

Luke, ARM SPECIALIZATION aka SYNTHOL. NO NEED TO GAIN NO POUNDS. although I dont believe the 24in thing.

[Parker]

please stop comparing Ronnie to a gorilla, not only is it racist, but gorillas have been proven and shown to have poor arm genes and terrible range of motion. plus, have you seen their terrible diets, and they're lazy.

Luke, ARM SPECIALIZATION aka SYNTHOL. NO NEED TO GAIN NO POUNDS. although I dont believe the 24in thing.

I was gonna say this, but I was thinking, why bother....

[Captain Equipoise]

please stop comparing Ronnie to a gorilla, not only is it racist, but gorillas have been proven and shown to have poor arm genes and terrible range of motion. plus, have you seen their terrible diets, and they're lazy.

Luke, ARM SPECIALIZATION aka SYNTHOL. NO NEED TO GAIN NO POUNDS. although I dont believe the 24in thing.

I don't believe all the claimed arm sizes of the pro's, but some for sure, definetly the ones I've met and know..

at my biggest I had 19.5-19.75" arms and some of these guys made my arms look non existant so I know for sure they were over 22" , 23" there is no way on earth some of these guy's (esp. Ronnie) have 21" arms, if you meet them in real life you see how crazy big they're arms are and you get a whole different sense of perspective.

[MadeYaMelt]

Luke, how did you become the resident arm expert here?  Aren't you the same guy who claimed this guy had a great set of guns?