Author Topic: FEC report details lavish Republican spending including nearly $2,000 at Voyeur  (Read 6906 times)

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Pea Brain is against "generational theft" yet supported the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy?
bwahahahahahahahaha

Those tax cuts brought in more revenue to the government and benefitted everyone.By the way,whats wrong with watching lesbians lick Bush,asa long as they are good looking?

Soul Crusher

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Pea Brain is against "generational theft" yet supported the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy?
bwahahahahahahahaha

I think all tax cuts are good for anyone who works and pays taxes.  Its their money, not yours, jesse's, baracks', bush's etc.  The problem is that they never cut spending like they should have. 


Benny B

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Those tax cuts brought in more revenue to the government and benefitted everyone.By the way,whats wrong with watching lesbians lick Bush,asa long as they are good looking?
::)

 CBO Data Show Tax Cuts Have Played Much Larger Role than Domestic Spending Increases in Fueling the Deficit


By Ruth Carlitz and Richard Kogan
Revised January 31, 2005

The new Congressional Budget Office budget projections released today show that the nation faces a fourth consecutive year of substantial budget deficits. Some seek to portray “runaway domestic spending” or growth in the costs of entitlement programs as the primary cause of the shift in recent years from sizeable surpluses to large deficits. Such a characterization is incorrect. In 2005, the cost of tax cuts enacted over the past four years will be over three times the cost of all domestic program increases enacted over this period.

The new CBO data show that changes in law enacted since January 2001 increased the deficit by $539 billion in 2005. In the absence of such legislation, the nation would have a surplus this year. Tax cuts account for nearly half — 48 percent — of this $539 billion in increased costs. [1] Increases in program spending make up the other 52 percent and have been primarily concentrated in defense, homeland security, and international affairs.

The Administration has repeatedly defended its tax cuts as a needed stimulus during the recent economic downturn. But the downturn is behind us, and the cost of the tax cuts is scheduled to increase in the years ahead. Indeed, some of the tax cuts enacted in 2001 that benefit only high-income households have not even started to take effect yet. The repeal of the “personal exemption phase-out” for high-income taxpayers, as well as repeal of the limitation on itemized deductions for high-income taxpayers, do not start to phase in until 2006 and do not take full effect until 2010. Estate tax repeal also does not take effect until 2010.

A growing number of studies from highly respected institutions and economists have concluded that the negative effect on long-term growth of the increased deficits that the tax cuts are generating is likely to cancel out — and quite possibly to outweigh — any positive effects on long-term growth from reductions in marginal tax rates and other tax incentives in the 2001 and 2003 tax-cut packages. Stated simply, the tax cuts are more likely to reduce long-term growth than to increase it.[2]
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::)

 CBO Data Show Tax Cuts Have Played Much Larger Role than Domestic Spending Increases in Fueling the Deficit


By Ruth Carlitz and Richard Kogan
Revised January 31, 2005

The new Congressional Budget Office budget projections released today show that the nation faces a fourth consecutive year of substantial budget deficits. Some seek to portray “runaway domestic spending” or growth in the costs of entitlement programs as the primary cause of the shift in recent years from sizeable surpluses to large deficits. Such a characterization is incorrect. In 2005, the cost of tax cuts enacted over the past four years will be over three times the cost of all domestic program increases enacted over this period.

The new CBO data show that changes in law enacted since January 2001 increased the deficit by $539 billion in 2005. In the absence of such legislation, the nation would have a surplus this year. Tax cuts account for nearly half — 48 percent — of this $539 billion in increased costs. [1] Increases in program spending make up the other 52 percent and have been primarily concentrated in defense, homeland security, and international affairs.

The Administration has repeatedly defended its tax cuts as a needed stimulus during the recent economic downturn. But the downturn is behind us, and the cost of the tax cuts is scheduled to increase in the years ahead. Indeed, some of the tax cuts enacted in 2001 that benefit only high-income households have not even started to take effect yet. The repeal of the “personal exemption phase-out” for high-income taxpayers, as well as repeal of the limitation on itemized deductions for high-income taxpayers, do not start to phase in until 2006 and do not take full effect until 2010. Estate tax repeal also does not take effect until 2010.

A growing number of studies from highly respected institutions and economists have concluded that the negative effect on long-term growth of the increased deficits that the tax cuts are generating is likely to cancel out — and quite possibly to outweigh — any positive effects on long-term growth from reductions in marginal tax rates and other tax incentives in the 2001 and 2003 tax-cut packages. Stated simply, the tax cuts are more likely to reduce long-term growth than to increase it.[2]
Taxpayers responded to President Bush's tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 by generating greater taxable income, according to a new paper to be published this fall in the National Tax Journal. In fact, taxpayers reported so much more income than was anticipated, it likely offset as much as 40% of the revenue that was lost by lowering the top two tax brackets, the paper, authored by a vice president for economic policy at the Tax Foundation, Robert Carroll, and economists Gerald Auten and Geoffrey Gee of the Department of the Treasury, found.

"This research illustrates that, while the lower tax rates have not paid for themselves, they do provide important economic benefits and can expand the tax base to such an extent that they cost the federal government substantially less revenue than the casual observer might think," Mr. Carroll, who was previously the deputy assistant secretary for tax analysis in the Office of Tax Policy at the Treasury, wrote.

As the Bush tax cuts are scheduled to sunset at the end of 2010, and the presidential candidates are busy finalizing their tax plans, understanding the effects of Bush's tax policy is critical. This paper, "The 2001 and 2003 Tax Rate Reductions: An Overview and Estimate of the Taxable Income Response," contends that lower taxes create a behavioral response in taxpayers, including working longer hours or taking higher-paying jobs, that generate greater taxable income.

This behavioral response, however, also means that when taxes are raised, there is a shift in behavior, and the tax increases often generate less revenue than anticipated.

"This is an important point, one that Obama is not taking into consideration," a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, Alan Viard, said. "The Obama campaign is not taking into consideration any behavioral reaction, which means that the revenue gain that Obama is predicting from his tax increase is not going to be as large as they say."

Senator Obama's economic policy director, Jason Furman, disputes this, saying that the presidential candidate does take into consideration some behavioral response, or so-called elasticity.

"The conservative estimate we use for budget purposes comes from the Tax Policy Center, and it does take into consideration some elasticity," Mr. Furman said.

Some other economic analysts also took issue with the paper.

"Even taking the 40% response at face value, that's a long way from 'tax cuts paying for themselves,'" a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, Douglas Elmendorf, said. "That is, McCain needs serious spending cuts to pay for his tax cuts, and he doesn't have any."

The paper examined more than 168,000 tax returns between 1999 and 2005 from taxpayers earning $50,000 or more. Looking at the change in taxable income as reported on their tax forms and the change in their tax rates, and after controlling for a number of factors, such as age and marital status, the researchers found that every 1% increase in a taxpayer's after-tax share — if the tax rate is 35%, the after-tax share is 65% — results in a 0.4% increase in reported taxable income.

A taxpayer who reported $500,000 in taxable income saw the tax rate drop from 39.6% to 35%, saving the taxpayer around $12,300 in taxes.

The tax cut increased the taxpayer's after-tax share from 60.4% to 65%, or an additional 7.6%. Multiplying 7.6% by 0.4% leads to an increase in taxable income of 3.04%. That means the taxpayer would have an increase in taxable income of $15,200. Taxed at the 35% rate, this translates into an extra tax payment of $5,320. Therefore, the behavioral response offsets about 43% of the $12,300 in revenue that was lost.

The paper also notes that the 0.4% increase in taxable income is based on the behavioral response of all taxpayers earning more than $50,000, not just those subject to the top two tax rates. It is widely acknowledged that taxpayers in the top brackets have a larger behavioral response than those in the lower tax brackets because they have more discretionary income. So, it is likely that responsiveness for high-income taxpayers is greater than 0.4%.

"There is uncertainty about the impact of the behavioral response to tax cuts, but this research is certainly well within the range of possibility, and is a very serious estimate," Mr. Viard said.



Benny B

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Taxpayers responded to President Bush's tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 by generating greater taxable income, according to a new paper to be published this fall in the National Tax Journal. In fact, taxpayers reported so much more income than was anticipated, it likely offset as much as 40% of the revenue that was lost by lowering the top two tax brackets, the paper, authored by a vice president for economic policy at the Tax Foundation, Robert Carroll, and economists Gerald Auten and Geoffrey Gee of the Department of the Treasury, found.

"This research illustrates that, while the lower tax rates have not paid for themselves, they do provide important economic benefits and can expand the tax base to such an extent that they cost the federal government substantially less revenue than the casual observer might think," Mr. Carroll, who was previously the deputy assistant secretary for tax analysis in the Office of Tax Policy at the Treasury, wrote.

As the Bush tax cuts are scheduled to sunset at the end of 2010, and the presidential candidates are busy finalizing their tax plans, understanding the effects of Bush's tax policy is critical. This paper, "The 2001 and 2003 Tax Rate Reductions: An Overview and Estimate of the Taxable Income Response," contends that lower taxes create a behavioral response in taxpayers, including working longer hours or taking higher-paying jobs, that generate greater taxable income.

This behavioral response, however, also means that when taxes are raised, there is a shift in behavior, and the tax increases often generate less revenue than anticipated.

"This is an important point, one that Obama is not taking into consideration," a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, Alan Viard, said. "The Obama campaign is not taking into consideration any behavioral reaction, which means that the revenue gain that Obama is predicting from his tax increase is not going to be as large as they say."

Senator Obama's economic policy director, Jason Furman, disputes this, saying that the presidential candidate does take into consideration some behavioral response, or so-called elasticity.

"The conservative estimate we use for budget purposes comes from the Tax Policy Center, and it does take into consideration some elasticity," Mr. Furman said.

Some other economic analysts also took issue with the paper.

"Even taking the 40% response at face value, that's a long way from 'tax cuts paying for themselves,'" a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, Douglas Elmendorf, said. "That is, McCain needs serious spending cuts to pay for his tax cuts, and he doesn't have any."

The paper examined more than 168,000 tax returns between 1999 and 2005 from taxpayers earning $50,000 or more. Looking at the change in taxable income as reported on their tax forms and the change in their tax rates, and after controlling for a number of factors, such as age and marital status, the researchers found that every 1% increase in a taxpayer's after-tax share — if the tax rate is 35%, the after-tax share is 65% — results in a 0.4% increase in reported taxable income.

A taxpayer who reported $500,000 in taxable income saw the tax rate drop from 39.6% to 35%, saving the taxpayer around $12,300 in taxes.

The tax cut increased the taxpayer's after-tax share from 60.4% to 65%, or an additional 7.6%. Multiplying 7.6% by 0.4% leads to an increase in taxable income of 3.04%. That means the taxpayer would have an increase in taxable income of $15,200. Taxed at the 35% rate, this translates into an extra tax payment of $5,320. Therefore, the behavioral response offsets about 43% of the $12,300 in revenue that was lost.

The paper also notes that the 0.4% increase in taxable income is based on the behavioral response of all taxpayers earning more than $50,000, not just those subject to the top two tax rates. It is widely acknowledged that taxpayers in the top brackets have a larger behavioral response than those in the lower tax brackets because they have more discretionary income. So, it is likely that responsiveness for high-income taxpayers is greater than 0.4%.

"There is uncertainty about the impact of the behavioral response to tax cuts, but this research is certainly well within the range of possibility, and is a very serious estimate," Mr. Viard said.


FAIL
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BM OUT

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FAIL

Yeah,but your article,written by two unknowns,is great.Ha,ha,yeah,the fact is EVERYTIME taxes are cut,revenues to the government go up.Sorry,libs can try to twist the facts,but the facts speak for themselves.

BayGBM

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'Iraq War = $716 Billion - 9 years.'

That doesn't include the longterm healthcare costs of tens of thousands of soldiers.

Let's not forget that the Iraq war was entirely unnecessary; US safety and security were never at risk from Iraq.  All that money was wasted, all those kids died for nothing, and lost limbs to satisfy the agenda of handful of ideologues.  ::)

tonymctones

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Let's not forget that the Iraq war was entirely unnecessary; US safety and security were never at risk from Iraq.  All that money was wasted, all those kids died for nothing, and lost limbs to satisfy the agenda of handful of ideologues.  ::)
hind sight is always 20/20 bud its easy to see that now, it wasnt at the time...dont try to rewrite history

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'hind sight is always 20/20 bud its easy to see that now, it wasnt at the time'

Cheney is one of the smartest mofos' around.

He knew the threat was far greater from other nations - hell, NKorea was SETTING OFF NUKES 2 years after we invaded iraq. 

iraq had oil.  We now have bases sitting atop those field.  Piggy bank for 10,20,50 years down the road.

I'm okay if you just say Cheney wanted that oil for longterm US interests and we peons weren't smart enough to realize that.  but to say he was duped/folled by bad intel?  Come on...

BayGBM

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hind sight is always 20/20 bud its easy to see that now, it wasnt at the time...dont try to rewrite history

Um,this is not hindsight.  We have heard from several reliable sources (including former Bush officials Paul O’Neil, Richard Clark, etc.) that the Bush administration had a prefabricated agenda to attack Iraq from the day they took office and simply used 9/11 as a pretext to carry out that agenda.  The result is lots of dead soldiers, shattered lives, and wasted money. :'(

Benny B

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Cheney is one of the smartest mofos' around.

Cheney isn't particularly smart at all. In what area is he an expert?
Another dumb statement from "240"!  ::)
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Cheny spent 40 years inside the white house, dept of defense, and at top level military contractors.  he knows his shit.  You can debate his morals, honesty, whatever.  But as far as knowing how govt and the world works - cheney knows his stuff.
 

JohnC1908

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Cheney is a morally bankrupt genius. I have no respect for the man, but he isn't dumb.

Benny B

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Cheny spent 40 years inside the white house, dept of defense, and at top level military contractors.  he knows his shit.  You can debate his morals, honesty, whatever.  But as far as knowing how govt and the world works - cheney knows his stuff.
 
Again, what is his area of expertise?


 A Yale alumnus from Wyoming had recruited Cheney with a full scholarship to Yale. Poor grades cost him the scholarship, however, and he left Yale after three semesters.

College Records of Dick Cheney Show He Failed out of Yale
President George W. Bush’s college records have often been mocked, as Bush was a solid C student at Yale University.  However, Bush’s Yale experience went significantly better than Vice President Dick Cheney’s. Cheney actually flunked out of Yale.

In fact, young Dick Cheney had a bit of wild youth.  He was arrested twice for drunk driving charges in the early 1960s in Wyoming, where he worked as a lineman for a power company.  He did finally go back to school, although, as the New York Times has suggested, this may have had more to do with wanting to avoid getting drafted into Vietnam than it did with wanting to get an education.

In 1963, Cheney enrolled at Casper Community College in Casper, Wyoming.  Later that year, he transferred to the University of Wyoming at Laramie, where he earned a BA and an MA in political science.  He also began doctoral work in political science at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, but he did not finish.

Cheney’s grades for his undergraduate and graduate work are not available, and apparently are in an undisclosed location.
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Again, what is his area of expertise?

Foreign relations, global economics, international conflict, and however it is the world really works.

tonymctones

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Um,this is not hindsight.  We have heard from several reliable sources (including former Bush officials Paul O’Neil, Richard Clark, etc.) that the Bush administration had a prefabricated agenda to attack Iraq from the day they took office and simply used 9/11 as a pretext to carry out that agenda.  The result is lots of dead soldiers, shattered lives, and wasted money. :'(

did they help fabricate the intel from other nations?

youre misunderstanding your own argument Im not saying that bush was right...what Im saying is its ignorant and incorrect to state that it was known that Iraq didnt pose a threat to anyone...there was conflicting intel on their programs not only from this nation but from other nations as well.

maybe they did use 9/11 as an excuse but there were still legit reasons to believe that Iraq posed a threat. Im not saying they did pose a threat only that it was not unreasonable to think they might and whether you want to admit it or not its the truth and you cant rewrite history... ::)

you really should look at this administration too and condemn their actions that is unless you think the video of rahm "never waste a crisis" emmanual was doctered  ::)


Benny B

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Again, what is his area of expertise?

Foreign relations, global economics, international conflict, and however it is the world really works.
How'd that "we'll be greeted as liberators" work out, given his knowledge of "foreign relations and international conflict?"  ::)
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240 is Back

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'How'd that "we'll be greeted as liberators" work out, given his knowledge of "foreign relations and international conflict?"  '


He said in early 90s that it would be a quagmire to try to take saddam in baghdad, we'd be stuck for years, etc.

He knew this in 2002/2003.  Was he painting a rosy picture to sell this war?  Of course.  Dishonest?  Sure.  He knew we'd be seen negatively, but he had to get american support behind the war.

Don't get me wrong, I think the war was built on lies and is immoral... however, I do think if it was about securing oil (and our bases parked on untouched oil fields with our name on 80% of them miiiight just be evidence of that), then cheney did it right.  I'm tossing out honesty and morality and what is right - focusing upon longterm national energy securement goals.  In that light, cheney did a bangup job.  Look, I'm pissing off people from the left side of the aisle... I wonder if 333386 will get me some cheney kneepads now?

tonymctones

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'How'd that "we'll be greeted as liberators" work out, given his knowledge of "foreign relations and international conflict?"  '


He said in early 90s that it would be a quagmire to try to take saddam in baghdad, we'd be stuck for years, etc.

He knew this in 2002/2003.  Was he painting a rosy picture to sell this war?  Of course.  Dishonest?  Sure.  He knew we'd be seen negatively, but he had to get american support behind the war.

Don't get me wrong, I think the war was built on lies and is immoral... however, I do think if it was about securing oil (and our bases parked on untouched oil fields with our name on 80% of them miiiight just be evidence of that), then cheney did it right.  I'm tossing out honesty and morality and what is right - focusing upon longterm national energy securement goals.  In that light, cheney did a bangup job. Look, I'm pissing off people from the left side of the aisle... I wonder if 333386 will get me some cheney kneepads now?
when you start knee padding im sure he will as of now youre only saying one thing about him to piss off ppl...but give it time youve been silverlining and knee padding for obama for a long time your rightly deserved reputation as an obama knee padder didnt happen overnight it took you a year of constant cock sucking so keep your head up 240 Im sure youll get called out by the left for knee padding for the right sooner or later...I have faith in your silver lining skills  :D

BayGBM

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RNC Chief of Staff Ken McKay resigns
By Philip Rucker and Chris Cillizza

The Republican National Committee's chief of staff resigned under pressure Monday, which Chairman Michael S. Steele described as an effort to reassure wavering donors in the wake of a controversy over its most recent expense accounting.

The resignation of Ken McKay, Steele's highest-ranking aide, is the most drastic in a series of attempts at damage control by the RNC after it was revealed March 29 that the committee had spent $1,900 to entertain young donors at a risqué West Hollywood nightclub. The staff member who authorized the expenditure was fired last week, and the RNC has implemented new spending accountability procedures.

"The members of the Republican National Committee entrusted myself and every staffer to lead the loyal opposition against the destructive Obama agenda, build a stronger Republican Party and win elections," Steele said in a statement. "This is a role I take with the utmost seriousness. With this in mind, I want to do everything in my power to ensure that the committee uses all its resources in the best possible fashion."

But in a blow to Steele, the political consulting firm that had long aided his political career and was advising him at the RNC said Monday night that it had severed ties with the national party after McKay's ouster.

"Given our firm's commitments to campaigns all over the country, we have concluded it is best for us to step away from our advisory role at the RNC," said Curt Anderson, a partner at On Message. "We have high personal regard for the chairman and always have. We wish him well."

RNC officials have worked to distance Steele from the nightclub story, insisting not only that was he not at the club but also that he had no knowledge of the expenditure. McKay, whom Steele hired, will be replaced by Deputy Chief of Staff Mike Leavitt, a Steele loyalist and longtime party operative who ran Steele's unsuccessful Senate campaign in Maryland in 2006 and worked at the RNC with Robert F. McDonnell's winning Virginia gubernatorial campaign last year.

Some leading Republican strategists said the turnover will not be enough to quell the growing concerns among GOP donors and establishment figures about Steele's leadership and his record of spending. Ed Rogers, a prominent party strategist, said it is "absolutely not" enough to calm donors, and he suggested that problems with "sloppy management" at the RNC cannot be solved unless Steele leaves.

"This is a terrible way to deal with the cleanup of the mismanagement," Rogers said. "There's no single gesture or single slaughter or sacrifice that will fix that problem. That problem, for the rest of his tenure, will be managed, not solved."

The only people who can remove Steele, however, are the 168 committee members who elected him. It would require a two-thirds majority vote to remove the chairman, whose two-year term expires in January. No committee member has issued a public call for Steele's resignation.

Most of the members are volunteer party activists who live outside the Beltway and are largely engrossed in primary elections and local matters in their states. Unlike Republican strategists in Washington or the party's congressional leaders, RNC members are less in tune with the details or scope of the evolving controversies -- the string of gaffes, confrontations with congressional leaders and record of lavish spending -- that have enveloped Steele's tenure.

"I'm just focused on winning here in South Carolina," said Glenn McCall, an RNC member from that state. "We have our gubernatorial races, lieutenant governor and all of our constitutional offices, Senator [Jim] DeMint's reelection."

McCall acknowledged that he has not closely followed the news of the nightclub expenditure. "I just want Steele and the RNC to continue focusing on winning," he said.

Some of the Republican Party's biggest donors have sidestepped the RNC in recent months, giving money instead to the Republican Governors Association, the National Republican Senatorial Committee and the National Republican Congressional Committee, party strategists said. That movement appears to have increased since the nightclub expenditure was revealed.

Meanwhile, Mike Duncan, a former RNC chairman, helped found American Crossroads, a group independent of the RNC. Aided by informal advice from two Republican political strategists, Karl Rove and Ed Gillespie, the group seeks to raise more than $50 million to help candidates in November's midterm elections.

Katon Dawson, a top operative from South Carolina who finished second to Steele in the chairman's race last year, said that McKay's resignation will be merely "a name in an article, a blip," and that bigger changes may be necessary. "The responsibility falls on the CEO of any organization, whether it be General Electric or whether it be the RNC," Dawson said. "The RNC right now is under Michael Steele. If [McKay is] fired, the question is whether the fault lies there."

Steele refrained from making any public comments last week, but his first interview since the scandal surfaced stoked a new controversy Monday.

Asked by George Stephanopoulos on ABC's "Good Morning America" whether being an African American gave him a "slimmer margin of error" than a white chairman might have, Steele said: "The honest answer is yes. It just is. Barack Obama has a slimmer margin. We all -- a lot of folks do. It's a different role for me to play and others to play, and that's just the reality of it. But you take that as part of the nature of it."

Steele added: "I'm not a Washington insider. . . . My view on politics is much more grass-roots-oriented, it's not old-boy-network-oriented, so I tend to, you know, come at it a little bit stronger, a little bit more streetwise, if you will. That's rubbed some feathers the wrong way."

Steele's comments drew allegations that he was playing the "race card." Conservative political commentator Armstrong Williams, who is black, said Steele's race has "nothing to do" with the scrutiny he is facing.

"It's an inability to think before he speaks and a mistaken Obama complex," Williams said. "He thinks he is in competition with the president. What he needs to do is stay behind the scenes, raise money and get people elected. His race has nothing to do with it."

McCall, who also is black, agreed. "He's the chairman," he said. "It's not about race. . . . He's the man in charge."

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, who is white, called Steele's comments "silly," adding: "I think Michael Steele's problem isn't the race card. It's the credit card."

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i've said for a long time that cheney is smart and that he was very effective at enacting his own goals/vision for america.  we did set up a shitload of bases that we needed, right before the saidis kicked us out.  will we be glad in 30 years if resources run out and we have to 'acquire' oil from iraq?  you betcha.  it means china can't grow fast enough as it would like, cause this oil isn't there for them.  

So while it's insulting to be lied to with that silly WMD talk, it is what it is.  Countries have probably been using these moves for centuries... it's only with the internet that people realize it's a sham now.  911, WMD, iraq... if they had happened in the 1940s, we'd be swallowing them hook, line and sinker.  It's only because of the web and world media that people catch onto that shit now.  It used to be the ONLY news you got was the news at 6 pm... and whatver was in the morning paper.  We all know the media is full o crap - and that's today, when independent media keeps them honest.  imagine the crap they sold us 50 years back lol.

JohnC1908

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How'd that "we'll be greeted as liberators" work out, given his knowledge of "foreign relations and international conflict?"  ::)

Your agenda has clouded your ability to reason. Liberals and collectivists tend to believe one's education experience/grades determine intelligence. Most of them are overeducated and underqualified. What you accomplish in college is supposed to be a baramoter of how well you will do in the workforce. It is not a perfect indicator. Cheney has played the system perfectly, although he's done it far from ethically. Saying that he's dumb is dumb. That would be like saying Lebron James isn't a good basketball player because he didn't accomplish squat in college. Take a look at Bill Gates and Thomas Edison if you need additional examples.

Benny B

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'How'd that "we'll be greeted as liberators" work out, given his knowledge of "foreign relations and international conflict?"  '


He said in early 90s that it would be a quagmire to try to take saddam in baghdad, we'd be stuck for years, etc.

He knew this in 2002/2003.  Was he painting a rosy picture to sell this war?  Of course.  Dishonest?  Sure.  He knew we'd be seen negatively, but he had to get american support behind the war.

Don't get me wrong, I think the war was built on lies and is immoral... however, I do think if it was about securing oil (and our bases parked on untouched oil fields with our name on 80% of them miiiight just be evidence of that), then cheney did it right.  I'm tossing out honesty and morality and what is right - focusing upon longterm national energy securement goals.  In that light, cheney did a bangup job.  Look, I'm pissing off people from the left side of the aisle... I wonder if 333386 will get me some cheney kneepads now?
No one is talking about honesty or morals. You have repeatedly made the statement on this board that Chaney is an incredibly smart person. I have yet to see evidence of this.

The reason you cannot legitimately answer my question is due to the fact that people don't respect Cheney for his "high levels of intelligence."
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No one is talking about honesty or morals. You have repeatedly made the statement on this board that Chaney is an incredibly smart person. I have yet to see evidence of this.

The reason you cannot legitimately answer my question is due to the fact that people don't respect Cheney for his "high levels of intelligence."
well if you believe that he controlled bush and you believe that the administration intentionally mislead the country, fabricated intel, planned or let 9/11 happen in order to justify iraq...then it would take a good bit of intelligence and tact in order to orchistrate any one of those wouldnt you agree?

Benny B

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  • Getbig V
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well if you believe that he controlled bush and you believe that the administration intentionally mislead the country, fabricated intel, planned or let 9/11 happen in order to justify iraq...then it would take a good bit of intelligence and tact in order to orchistrate any one of those wouldnt you agree?
First of all, you are assuming (and you know what that does) that I agree with all of the things you just stated...I do not. Secondly, you are assuming (once again, not a good idea with me) that I would consider the intelligence to orchestrate such matters to be the sign of a person of significant intellectual heft and stature. Again...I do not. Particularly when looking at the cast of characters that participated in the Shakespearean tragedy that were the Bush years. And certainly when looking at the end result of said tragedy.
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