GH15 might want to look in to The Luke knowledge

[boonasty]

Best, most accurate post in this whole thread

The Luke is, was and will always be full of shit. His technique is to swamp people with a whole lot of obfuscations and unnecessary variables by injecting them into an argument and dress it up with a lot of scientific forumulae, to make it look like he's a man of science who just can't get it wrong. Typical case of trying to fit the facts to suit the theory, rather than adjust the theory to fit the facts.

Look at his absurd, "Your arm is xxx inches bigger than so and so's arm. Are you saying *introduce an unnecessary factor like surface area here, so he can pose an even more ridiculous question like* your arm, therefore, has a 38.943 % bigger surface area than so and so's arm?" Yeah, surface area is the most common and universally used criterion for judging arm size in bodybuilding

As mentioned before, going by his ridiculous blanket statement of a "formula", a guy like Lee Priest can't have bigger arms than the heavier, taller Dan Hill, just like Eric Fankhouser can't have bigger calves than heavier, taller guys like Toney Freeman or Gunther, even though they both do. And those are just a couple of examples.

Got to love the way he dismisses facts just because they don't suit / fit his theory, which he holds up like it's infallible, lol.

QFMFT

[mesmorph78]

this us an offseason ronnie

[The Luke]

QFMFT

You know, despite what Kiwiol claims... circumference doesn't measure surface area.

I see lots and lots of pictures in this thread... I don't see any counter argument.

I suppose if religion can make people accept a fairytale over the Theory of Evolution... then maybe man-love and hero worship can make people dismiss basic math.


The Luke

[kiwiol]

Ended when he compared pro bodybuilders to polish school kids and random US army dudes.

Haha true

See the mistake you made?


Really Kiwiol, I get your point, but judge by the bodyweights... Ronnie's arms ARE bigger than Priest's... so that's Priest 20.5'' like you figured and Ronnie approximately 21'' onstage. A 21'' arm equates to a lean bodymass around 260 lbs at 5'10''... but a genuine muscular 24'' arm at 5'10'' equates to a lean bodymass of 350ish lbs...

I don't think even you yourself believe deep down that Ronnie's arms are only half an inch bigger than Lee's there, cause anyone who isn't blind can see they're at least well over an inch bigger, if not two. And again, you are refusing to see evidence that's placed in front of you simply because it disproves your assertion that isn't based on a study that was done on bodybuilders anyway (see Xerxes' post above).

Why bring a Gorilla into this argument? I see what you're trying to say, but why go there, when the pics posted above make it plainly clear that guys can have arms measuring around 22" at a body weight of around 260 lb in contest shape. When you see new evidence or facts that contradict your theory, you need to discard the existing theory or adjust it to accommodate the new facts, and not simply discard the evidence or sweep it under the carpet because it's inconvenient.

[EL Mariachi]

Haha true

I don't think even you yourself believe deep down that Ronnie's arms are only half an inch bigger than Lee's there, cause anyone who isn't blind can see they're at least well over an inch bigger, if not two. And again, you are refusing to see evidence that's placed in front of you simply because it disproves your assertion that isn't based on a study that was done on bodybuilders anyway (see Xerxes' post above).

Why bring a Gorilla into this argument? I see what you're trying to say, but why go there, when the pics posted above make it plainly clear that guys can have arms measuring around 22" at a body weight of around 260 lb in contest shape. When you see new evidence or facts that contradict your theory, you need to discard the existing theory or adjust it to accommodate the new facts, and not simply discard the evidence or sweep it under the carpet because it's inconvenient.

yes kiwiol has a point here, you cant neglect it, what will be your next move The Luke, seems like you cant explain this?

[mesmorph78]

Seriously, they've autopsied 540 lb male silverback gorillas who didn't have a 24'' arm. That's more than double Ronnie's bodyweight at only 6' tall.


This guy makes me laugh
luke since when are gorilla know for huge upper arms.

Why stop there Orangutans are in the 400lb regoin no human should have bigger quads or arms than an orangutan
Do you realise how dumb your argument is.

[Shockwave]

Seriously, they've autopsied 540 lb male silverback gorillas who didn't have a 24'' arm. That's more than double Ronnie's bodyweight at only 6' tall.


This guy makes me laugh
luke since when are gorilla know for huge upper arms.

Why stop there Orangutans are in the 400lb regoin no human should have bigger quads or arms than an orangutan
Do you realise how dumb your argument is.

Heres my thing. This whole stupid argument is because you claimed to have some huge arms.
put up, or shut up. Post the pics of you taping your arms, and everyone is proven wrong. Until then, you're just another guy full of shit.

[JOCKTHEGLIDE]

yet fella,,,internet warrior i told you already when ronnie walked into metrofelx bobbie and i measured his arms natural a 18 with year and half hormone use he got them to 21 in contest condition,,,,off season they are 23 and half,,,we said it already,

See the mistake you made?


Really Kiwiol, I get your point, but judge by the bodyweights... Ronnie's arms ARE bigger than Priest's... so that's Priest 20.5'' like you figured and Ronnie approximately 21'' onstage. A 21'' arm equates to a lean bodymass around 260 lbs at 5'10''... but a genuine muscular 24'' arm at 5'10'' equates to a lean bodymass of 350ish lbs...

Seriously, they've autopsied 540 lb male silverback gorillas who didn't have a 24'' arm. That's more than double Ronnie's bodyweight at only 6' tall.


Stop going by "feel" and "look"... do the math. I could reduce the math to a simple factor if you want to work it out for yourself...?


The Luke

[The Luke]

Why bring a Gorilla into this argument? I see what you're trying to say, but why go there, when the pics posted above make it plainly clear that guys can have arms measuring around 22" at a body weight of around 260 lb in contest shape. When you see new evidence or facts that contradict your theory, you need to discard the existing theory or adjust it to accommodate the new facts, and not simply discard the evidence or sweep it under the carpet because it's inconvenient.

...you haven't posted any "facts", you just post a picture and make a claim based on how you "feel" about it.

EVERY single VERIFIED arm/weight measurement of any pro bodybuilder ever measured fits the ratio/scale that I posted.

Should we dismiss that based on your "feel" about how Ronnie "looks" in a picture?


You know there are photos taken from low down at the corner of the stage which clearly show Lee Priest to be several inches taller than Gunter... does that count as evidence?

Photos are not proof of measurements. Measurements are proof of measurements.


The Luke

[Parker]

this us an offseason ronnie

That top pic is well more than 21.7 inches...if that is 21.7 inches then I'm no longer 5'5, but 6'5.

[#1 Klaus fan]

He has big ass arms, I am guessing over 19.

I am guessing less than that. And I know I'm right.

[mesmorph78]

Heres my thing. This whole stupid argument is because you claimed to have some huge arms.
put up, or shut up. Post the pics of you taping your arms, and everyone is proven wrong. Until then, you're just another guy full of shit.

here's my thing stop askin another male to post pics of his bodyparts
1 it's gay
2 it's annoying
3 that's the last direct response you will get from me

[mesmorph78]

He has big ass arms, I am guessing over 19.

not in that pic that pic is over 6 yrs old I was a kid there

[#1 Klaus fan]

That top pic is well more than 21.7 inches...if that is 21.7 inches then I'm no longer 5'5, but 6'5.

Nobody said 21.7 inch arm is small. 

[kiwiol]

...you haven't posted any "facts", you just post a picture and make a claim based on how you "feel" about it.

EVERY single VERIFIED arm/weight measurement of any pro bodybuilder ever measured fits the ratio/scale that I posted.

Should we dismiss that based on your "feel" about how Ronnie "looks" in a picture?


You know there are photos taken from low down at the corner of the stage which clearly show Lee Priest to be several inches taller than Gunter... does that count as evidence?

Photos are not proof of measurements. Measurements are proof of measurements.


The Luke

I know you won't admit it, but I'll say this anyway - the talk about angles, while valid, doesn't apply to the pics posted, which are taken straight on. And it's not just those pics alone - watch the video of the contest and you'll see the exact same thing.

Fact of the matter is, guys like Ronnie, Kevin, Paul Dillett and Nasser all had arms that were an inch or 2 bigger than Lee's, as can be seen in over 90% of the pics and all of the video clips of contests in which they're compared to each other or in a posedown or whatever. By your own admission, Lee has close to 21" arms onstage, which would make the arm sizes of the other guys range from 22" to 23", thus negating your original formula.

So there.

[EL Mariachi]

The Luke once told me a formula for brushing teeth.

[EL Mariachi]

How do you train them? lol

test and dbol

[TRIX]

lee priest


where his hand is, kinda looks suspect

[TRIX]

obviously his arm he outward and closer to the camera........ 22" ripped guns

[Palpatine Q]

Regarding Burneika's arm...

1-Not a proper perpendicular measurement (you can add up to 2'' by going diagonally around the measurement)
2-Slack tape
3-Something foreign in his biceps and triceps


Regarding Kiwiol's continued poor reading comprehension..

The ratio I posted doesn't assert that everyone at the same bodyweight has the same arm measurement... it asserts that there is a minimum bodyweight requirement for each lean arm measurement (for people within one standard deviation of average height).

If you don't understand that, think of it in terms of "A bodybuilder of average height must have x amount of lean bodyweight to have a y sized arm (y + 2'' gives the calf measurement)."


The Luke

I like how you just slide retarded shit like this in with no basis in fact like it's okay...you are a douche.

i think this thread has to end guys....we are arguing with "The Luke' for chrissakes...you know, the guy who chases Bigfoot around in a kilt?

Oh and to the guy who called my arms "fatceps"....let's see your FDB stud 

[The Luke]

Oh and to the guy who called my arms "fatceps"....let's see your FDB stud 

...maybe post a pic of your taped arms?

Are they actually the size you claimed?


The Luke

[The Luke]

Been enjoying this thread... the militant ignorance and epic fanboy delusion is highly entertaining.

I realise I can't take you guys through the maths if you don't have a basic grasp of the difference between a volume and an area; or between squares and cubes... but I can show you that the formula works for guys of average height (5'9'' plus or minus an inch or two).


Below I have a list of VERIFIED arm measurements and I'm going to double check all of them against the ratio:

280 lbs Dorian Yates (off season)                  20.125'' ...measured repeatedly by different seminar attendees
260 lbs Dorian Yates (pre-contest)                19.750'' ...claimed by Dorian himself
240 lbs Arnold Schwazhisname (off season)  19.625'' ...measured by Arthur Jones
240 bs Vince Taylor (off season)                    19.750'' ...measured by Joe Roark
240 lbs Mike Mentzer (off season)                 18.750'' ...measured by Arthur Jones
305 lbs Ronnie Coleman                                21.700'' ...measured on Chilean and Korean tv
240 lbs Casey Viatour (off season)                19.250'' ...measured by Arthur Jones

...let's include a guy who was "all arms":
250 lbs Sergio Oliva (off season)                   20.250'' ...measured by Arthur Jones

...and let's include the arm mutants:
240 lbs Eddie Robinson (off season)              20.250'' ...measured by Ellington Darden
235 lbs Lee Priest (off season)                      21.500'' ...measured by Joe Roark


...okay, let's compare those VERIFIED measurements with the results calculated by the simple ratio extrapolation to see if anyone actually significantly exceeds the ratio.



Taking our 150 lb and 15'' arm average guy as the starting point and calculating from the bodyweight:

Maximum arm size at 280 lbs = 20.49'' ...that's a 0.365'' discrepancy for 280 lb Dorian Yates
Maximum arm size at 260 lbs = 19.75'' ...that's a 0.000'' discrepancy for 260 lb Dorian Yates
Maximum arm size at 240 lbs = 18.97'' ...that's a 0.655'' discrepancy for 240 lb Arnold Schwarzenegger
Maximum arm size at 240 lbs = 18.97'' ...that's a 0.780'' discrepancy for 240 lb Vince Taylor
Maximum arm size at 240 lbs = 18.97'' ...that's a 0.220'' discrepancy for 240 lb Mike Mentzer
Maximum arm size at 305 lbs = 21.40'' ...that's a 0.300'' discrepancy for 305 lb Ronnie Coleman
Maximum arm size at 240 lbs = 18.97'' ...that's a 0.280'' discrepancy for 240 lb Casey Viator

...let's incude a guy who was "all arms":
Maximum arm size at 250 lbs = 19.36'' ...that's a 0.880'' discrepancy for 250 lb Sergio Oliva

...and lets incude the arm mutants:
Maximum arm size at 240 lbs = 18.97'' ...that's a 1.530'' discrepancy for 240 lb Eddie Robinson
Maximum arm size at 235 lbs = 18.77'' ...that's a 2.730'' discrepancy for 235 lb Lee Priest



Taking our 150 lb and 15'' arm average guy as the starting point and calculating from the arm size:

20.125'' arm requires 270 lbs ...a 10 lb discrepancy ...spot on for off season Dorian Yates
19.750'' arm requires 260 lbs ...a zero discrepancy ...exactly spot on for pre-contest Dorian Yates
19.625'' arm requires 257 lbs ...a 17 lb discrepancy ...Arnold Schwarz is slightly arm-heavy: no surprise
19.750'' arm requires 260 lbs ...a 20 lb discrepancy ...Vince Taylor is slightly arm-heavy: no surprise
18.750'' arm requires 234 lbs ...a   7 lb discrepancy ...spot on for Mike Mentzer
21.700'' arm requires 313 lbs ...a   8 lb discepancy ...spot on for Ronnie Coleman
19.250'' arm requires 247 lbs ...a   7 lb discrepancy ...spot on for Casey Viator

...let's include a guy who was "all arms":
20.250'' arm requires 273 lbs ...a 23 lb discrepancy ...Sergio Oliva as slightly arm-heavy: no surprise

...and let's include the arm mutants:
20.250'' arm requires 273 lbs ...a 33 lb discrepancy ...Eddie Robinson is slightly stunted
21.500'' arm requires 308 lbs ...a 73 lb discrepancy ...Lee Priest is too short for the ratio to work


So, the only person for whom the ratio breaks down is Lee Priest.

Which was probably to be expected seeing as he is more than one standard deviation below average height; has stunted arms; a touch of dwarfism to his proportions and has probably the best arms the spot has ever seen.

But more interestingly... for guys within a couple of inches of average height the ratio not only holds consistently, it even predicts:
-maximum arm size to within 9 tenths of one inch just from bodyweight
-minimum bodyweight to within 9% just from an arm measurement

That's amazing accuracy for simple ratio extrapolate from the average untrained guy.

If you limit the scope of the ratio to guys beteen 5'8'' and 6' with proportionate arms, the ratio predicts:
-maximum arm size to within three quartrs of one inch just from bodyweight
-minimum bodyweight to within 7% just from an arm measurement

Come on guys... you can't argue with those results.
-better than 95% accuracy at predicting maxiumum arm size (for a particular bodyweight)
-better than 93% accuracy at predicting minimum bodyweights (for a particular arm size)


That means the very smallest possible size/bodyweight for a 5'9'' (proportionate) guy with 24'' arms is 357 lbs.


Thread closed?


The Luke
PS- I'll happily answer any questions anyone has about the math.

[chaos]

Teh Luke, your theory holds no ratio for height?

So a guy 240lbs @ 5'5" is going to have the same size arm as a guy 6'2"?

You compare your "average 5'9" guy" to several guys who are taller than that.

[mesmorph78]

How do you train them? lol

moderate on rare ocassion heavy  indespensable excercises
heavy Olympic bar curls and skull crushers

[jr]

My arms measure 13" cold. Is this good? I've been training consistently for 12 years now.