Petraeus Touted for President

[Dos Equis]

In the United States the initiative is in use at the level of state government, in 24 states, and the District of Columbia, and is also in common use at the local and city government level.  I`d like to see it on a National Level, at the Federal Level.

Never thought about it at the federal level, but it sounds expensive. 

[240 is Back]

I care more that the population might be swayed into things that go against LONG TERM US interests.

[tonymctones]

I care more that the population might be swayed into things that go against LONG TERM US interests.

agreed, I think i could get on board with this if it were only on legislation that regarded the US and not foreign affairs

[Jezebelle]

In Switzerland, the U.S. Constitution basically has been combined with direct democracy. The result is without precedent in human history; Switzerland has evolved into one of the most successfully governed nations in the world.

[Jezebelle]

Direct democracy
Voting in Switzerland


          The instruments of Swiss direct democracy at the federal level, known as civic rights (Volksrechte, droits civiques), include the right to submit a constitutional initiative and a referendum, both of which may overturn parliamentary decisions.[32][36]
By calling a federal referendum a group of citizens may challenge a law that has been passed by Parliament, if they can gather 50,000 signatures against the law within 100 days. If so, a national vote is scheduled where voters decide by a simple majority whether to accept or reject the law. Eight cantons together can also call a referendum on a federal law.[32]
Similarly, the federal constitutional initiative allows citizens to put a constitutional amendment to a national vote, if they can get 100,000 voters to sign the proposed amendment within 18 months.[note 7] Parliament can supplement the proposed amendment with a counter-proposal, with voters having to indicate a preference on the ballot in case both proposals are accepted. Constitutional amendments, whether introduced by initiative or in Parliament, must be accepted by a double majority of both the national popular vote and a majority of the cantonal popular votes

[tonymctones]

In Switzerland, the U.S. Constitution basically has been combined with direct democracy. The result is without precedent in human history; Switzerland has evolved into one of the most successfully governed nations in the world.

The US is a unique country and not another country in the world with the make up and demographics that we have. This is a great strength but also can cause great problems I think it would be easier to implement this and have success with it in countries with like minded individuals.

If youve watched the past election and the health care debates you can understand how fast public perception of an issue changes...

[Jezebelle]

The US is a unique country and not another country in the world with the make up and demographics that we have. This is a great strength but also can cause great problems I think it would be easier to implement this and have success with it in countries with like minded individuals.

If youve watched the past election and the health care debates you can understand how fast public perception of an issue changes...

I agree, but the way this works, the citizens can force congress to vote on the citizen proposed bills and if you have a national popular vote in favor of the citizen bill and then you have congress vote on the citizen bill, then you have a new law and direct democracy.  Laws made by citizens.

And the good thing here is, if Congress keeps voting AGAINST the citizen proposed bills, Guess who wont be in office come election time.....We can directly see who is against the will of the people.

[Jezebelle]

The Supreme Court of Course is intact to keep it all Constitutional so nobody has their rights violated.

Clearing 2 houses of congress, the House and the Senate and having a National Popular Vote to enact a citizen proposed law seems like a solid measure to ensure fairness.

Here is a site to learn more about it all if anyone is interested:

http://ni4d.us/

[tonymctones]

I agree, but the way this works, the citizens can force congress to vote on the citizen proposed bills and if you have a national popular vote in favor of the citizen bill and then you have congress vote on the citizen bill, then you have a new law and direct democracy.  Laws made by citizens.

And the good thing here is, if Congress keeps voting AGAINST the citizen proposed bills, Guess who wont be in office come election time.....We can directly see who is against the will of the people.

I would be ok with it if the percentage to create a citizens bill was very high say 75% of the votes.

[Jezebelle]

I would be ok with it if the percentage to create a citizens bill was very high say 75% of the votes.

Well it would also have to be cleared by both houses of Congress as well.

Lets do an arbitrary example.

Lets say you want to propose a Law legalizing Steroids for Personal Use.  You get the required amount of signatures needed for the initiative to appear on a National Ballot.

The Initiative Ballot goes up for a National Popular Vote.

The Popular Vote passes with a simple Majority in favor.

The Initiative now is sent to Congress. Where both houses will debate and Vote on it.

Once it clears both houses with a vote in Favor, the Initiative can now be enacted in law.

The People`s Initiative that now has become Federal law takes precedence over any previous Laws regarding Steroid usage for personal usage.


This is very basic as to how it works.  On that website I gave are the actual finite details, but this is basically how it would come to fruition.  I like it a lot.  If congress voted it down then the bill would die.  If the people were unhappy with the way their congress voted, then come election time...See ya....

[tonymctones]

Well it would also have to be cleared by both houses of Congress as well.

Lets do an arbitrary example.

Lets say you want to propose a Law legalizing Steroids for Personal Use.  You get the required amount of signatures needed for the initiative to appear on a National Ballot.

The Initiative Ballot goes up for a National Popular Vote.

The Popular Vote passes with a simple Majority in favor.

The Initiative now is sent to Congress. Where both houses will debate and Vote on it.

Once it clears both houses with a vote in Favor, the Initiative can now be enacted in law.

The People`s Initiative that now has become Federal law takes precedence over any previous Laws regarding Steroid usage for personal usage.


This is very basic as to how it works.  On that website I gave are the actual finite details, but this is basically how it would come to fruition.  I like it a lot.  If congress voted it down then the bill would die.  If the people were unhappy with the way their congress voted, then come election time...See ya....

I understand how it would work but I appreciate you laying it out for me all the same.

My worries would be that the public vote would be to easily swayed and like you said ppl would just vote out whomever didnt vote the way they want so eventually you will get what you want whether its good or not. This is why I think a simple majority is not good enough id say 3/4 or at least 2/3's

[Dos Equis]

Went from star to convicted criminal almost overnight.  Amazing how quickly fortunes can change.

Petraeus sentenced to 2 years probation for military leak
Published April 23, 2015
Associated Press

Former CIA Director David Petraeus, whose career was destroyed by an extramarital affair with his biographer, was sentenced Thursday to two years of probation plus a $100,000 fine for giving her classified material while she was working on the book.

Petraeus appeared at the sentencing, which came two months after he agreed to plead guilty to a federal misdemeanor count of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material.

The plea agreement carried a possible sentence of up to a year in prison. In court papers, prosecutors recommended two years of probation and a $40,000 fine. But Judge David Kessler increased the fine to "reflect seriousness of the offense."

In court, before being sentenced, Petraeus apologized "for the pain my actions have caused."

The agreement was filed in federal court in Charlotte, the city where Paula Broadwell, the general's biographer and former lover, lives with her husband and children.

The prospect of probation for Petraeus had been raised as an issue in an unrelated case by supporters of Jeffrey Sterling, a former CIA officer convicted of giving a New York Times reporter classified details of an operation to derail Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Federal prosecutors in Virginia have urged a stiff sentence for Sterling, and probation officers have calculated a sentencing guidelines range of 20 to 24 years.

Supporters including Nobel Peace Prize laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu argued that Sterling's expected sentence would be out of line with the deal that Petraeus secured.

The affair ruined the reputation of the retired four-star Army general who led U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As part of his deal, Petraeus agreed not to contest the set of facts laid out by the government.

Prosecutors said that while Broadwell was writing her book in 2011, Petraeus gave her eight binders of classified material he had improperly kept from his time as the top military commander in Afghanistan. Days later, he took the binders back to his house.

Among the secret information contained in the "black books" were the names of covert operatives, the coalition war strategy and notes about Petraeus' discussions with President Obama and the National Security Council, prosecutors said.

Those binders were later seized by the FBI in an April 2013 search of Petraeus' Arlington, Virginia, home, where he had kept them in the unlocked drawer of a desk in a ground-floor study.

Prosecutors said that after resigning from the CIA in November 2012, Petraeus had signed a form falsely attesting he had no classified material. He also lied to FBI agents by denying he supplied the information to Broadwell, according to court documents.

Petraeus admitted having an affair with Broadwell when he resigned as CIA director. Both have publicly apologized and said their romantic relationship began only after he had retired from the military.

Broadwell's admiring biography of him, "All In: The Education of David Petraeus," came out in 2012, before the affair was exposed.

Petraeus held the CIA post less than a year, not long enough to leave a significant mark on the spy agency. The core of his identity has been a military man.

With a Ph.D. and a reputation as a thoughtful strategist, Petraeus was brought in by President George W. Bush to command multinational forces in Iraq in 2007, a period when the war began to turn in favor of the U.S.

Petraeus' command coincided with the "surge" of American forces in Iraq and a plan to pay Sunni militias to fight al-Qaida in Iraq.

With American help, the Sunni tribes were able to push out insurgents and enable U.S. troops to withdraw in 2011. Those same Sunni areas are now controlled by the Islamic State group, which evolved from the remnants of al-Qaida after Iraqi's Shiite-led government proved weak.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/04/23/petraeus-sentenced-to-2-years-probation-for-military-leak/?intcmp=latestnews

[Dos Equis]

Now this is how you man up and take responsibility for mistakes.  Good for him.

Petraeus, in Hill hearing, apologizes for giving classified info to mistress
Published September 22, 2015
FoxNews.com

Retired Army Gen. David Petraeus issued an extraordinary public apology to Congress on Tuesday for sharing classified information with his biographer and mistress, saying it was a "violation of trust."

Petraeus appeared before the Senate Armed Services Committee to discuss the Middle East, in his first public testimony to lawmakers since resigning as CIA director. He started by addressing what led to his resignation.

"Four years ago, I made a serious mistake -- one that brought discredit on me and pain to those closest to me," Petraeus said, of sharing information with mistress Paula Broadwell. "It was a violation of the trust placed in me and a breach of the values to which I had been committed throughout my life."

Petraeus said he cannot "undo" what he did. "I can only say again how sorry I am to those I let down and then strive to go forward with a greater sense of humility and purpose, and with gratitude to those who stood with me during a very difficult chapter in my life."

Petraeus went on to address the subject of the hearing, and presented a grave picture of the state of the Middle East, describing a "revolutionary upheaval that is unparalleled in its modern history."

He said the progress achieved so far in fighting Islamic State militants in Iraq has been "inadequate" and suggested the U.S. increase support to Iraqi security forces and Sunni tribal and Kurdish fighters.

He warned lawmakers that Syria, in particular, is a "geopolitical Chernobyl" whose fallout "will be felt for decades."

In Syria, he recommended the U.S. take a harder stance against President Bashar Assad. While the Obama administration has stressed the importance of a political solution in Syria, Petraeus argued there needs to be a stronger military plan for that to succeed.

He called for setting up enclaves protected by coalition airpower where moderate Sunnis could be supported, civilians could find refuge and additional forces could be trained.

"Inaction can carry profound risks for our national security," Petraeus said, adding that when the U.S. "doesn't fill the vacuum, others will" -- in reference to Russia.

As Moscow sends jets, tanks and other equipment to Syria in support of Assad's regime, Petraeus also warned that the Obama administration should not allow Russia to push the U.S. into an alliance with Assad. He noted that if Russia had wanted to fight the Islamic State, it could have joined the U.S.-led coalition, but didn't.

Petraeus retired in 2011 after commanding U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was CIA director from September 2011 to November 2012, when he resigned after acknowledging an affair with Broadwell. He was sentenced to two years of probation and fined $100,000 for unauthorized removal and retention of classified information he shared with Broadwell.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/22/petraeus-apologizes-hill-appearance/?intcmp=hpbt1

[240 is Back]

Now this is how you man up and take responsibility for mistakes.  Good for him.

it's important to do that.

[Dos Equis]

Liberal lackeys are so predictable. 

[Las Vegas]

Anyone know what's been said about how this story was brought into the open?

[Dos Equis]

Defense secretary may demote retired Petraeus
By ANNA GIARITELLI (@ANNA_GIARITELLI)
1/18/16


Secretary of Defense Ash Carter is considering demoting retired Gen. David Petraeus for divulging classified information to his biographer and mistress while he was still an Army official, according to a report published Monday evening.

Multiple sources confirmed the top military leader is deciding whether to make an example out of Petraeus for betraying his commitment.

"The secretary is considering going in a different direction" than the Army, which said Petraeus' rank should not be changed, a defense official said.

Demoting the general from his four-star ranking general to a lieutenant general, despite his being retired, would still deal a significant blow to the official. Petraeus would not only lose his revered top ranking, but also have to repay hundreds of thousands of dollars to make up the annual difference in salaries between the two. His yearly pension would also dip from $220,000 to $170,000.

Petraeus retired from the Army in 2011 shortly before his relationship with writer Paula Broadwell was leaked in August 2012. He pleaded guilty last year to sharing notebooks of confidential information with the biographer while they were overseas.

Carter does not have a deadline to make a decision. If he chooses to make an example out of Petraeus, the former general would be able to appeal the decision to the secretary.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/defense-secretary-may-demote-retired-petraeus/article/2580853?custom_click=rss