Dorian Yates - overrated!

[JP_RC]

Ronnie was no doubt improved in 1998 vs previous years, but he didn't reinvent himself.  He tightened up his conditioning and looked very good, and every bit a deserving winner, but even then barely squeaked out a win over a less than best Flex Wheeler.  In contrast, Yates obliterated everyone, even while they were in better shape than when Ronnie inevitably faced them as champion.  Ronnie placed a distant 9th to a less than best Yates in 1997.  Precisely what would make one believe that suddenly Ronnie would have leapfrogged Dorian, had Dorian competed in 1998, or subsequent years?  Losing the pre-judging to Jay in 2001?  The close call to Levrone in 2002?  Losing the GNC to Gunter?  Losing the Olympia to Jay in 2006?  His extreme mass and substandard conditioning in 2003?

This:

[JP_RC]

Look how Cormier looks next to Ronnie in 1997 and then in 1999.
Big difference.

[JP_RC]

You certainly get upset when someone posts a pic or says something that goes against Dorian don't you? 

[JP_RC]

None of those are 1994 by the way. 

[Royal Lion]

I'm not upset -- everyone is entitled to their opinion -- I just don't think Ray was ever better than Dorian.  And, I think it's ridiculous to say "Dorian getting destoyed by someone 3 inches shorter and 50lbs lighter than him."

Yes, the B & W photo is from 94. As are these... (btw, Dorian's color was way off that year, not sure why?)

[Royal Lion]

Also from 94.  Ray was admittedly sharp as hell that year (probably his best, also he looked great in 1999), and he pushed Dorian to the limit.  I just think there was too much size advantage to Dorian who was just about as conditioned.

[FREAKgeek]

I'm not upset -- everyone is entitled to their opinion -- I just don't think Ray was ever better than Dorian.  And, I think it's ridiculous to say "Dorian getting destoyed by someone 3 inches shorter and 50lbs lighter than him."

I don't think it's that crazy. Dorian is marginally better. If you reversed the overall size advantage, would Dorian still win? That's his saving grace. His back is a little wider, there's more separation in the back muscles, arms and waist down it's ray.

[Shockwave]

Do you want another pose? How about the BDB (one of Dorian's strong points)

Ray was to narrow and too small to ever beat yates. You might like rays physique, it's pretty and dozs is not at all, but Ray was never a threat. Just too small an too narrow.

[JP_RC]

QFT!  Dorian dominated during bodybuilding's most competetive era.  His greatness kept guys like Flex, Ray, Levrone, Nasser, etc., from ever winning the Mr. O despite being at their all time bests.  While Ronnie had his share of dominating wins, his competition wasn't at the same level as Dorian's.  2001 was a joke (how does one lose the prejudging but not the show?); if KL had shown up with legs in 2002 Ronnie would have lost; Gunter's GNC win over Ronnie was legit (yes 03 Ronnie redeemed himself!); and RC was dethroned in 2006.  If the competition during these shows had been what it was in the early/mid 1990s, Ronnie would have lost at least a couple additional shows.  Doz, on the other hand, wasn't pushed this far -- he never lost a prejudging, let alone an entire show -- and he faced consistently better competition.

Do you really want to play the card of the level of competition they faced?
Look how Ronnie looks next to Shawn and Flex in 1998 and then look how Dorian looks to the same men in 1993.
You can say Shawn and Flex were both better in 93 for their conditioning, but Ronnie's conditioning in 98 was just as good as theirs (better in my opinion) coupled with bigger size.
It gives a perspective of how Ronnie of 98 would look next to a Dorian in 93 if you want to use their competition as prove of something.

[Royal Lion]

I don't think it's that crazy. Dorian is marginally better. If you reversed the overall size advantage, would Dorian still win? That's his saving grace. His back is a little wider, there's more separation in the back muscles, arms and waist down it's ray.

I see advantage Dorian on everything except glutes (no homo).  Again, I am not claiming Dorian "owned" or "destroyed" Ray in 1994.  But he deserved his win and was certainly not owned by Ray.

[Royal Lion]

Do you really want to play the card of the level of competition they faced?
Look how Ronnie looks next to Shawn and Flex in 1998 and then look how Dorian looks to the same men in 1993.
You can say Shawn and Flex were both better in 93 for their conditioning, but Ronnie's conditioning in 98 was just as good as theirs (better in my opinion) coupled with bigger size.
It gives a perspective of how Ronnie of 98 would look next to a Dorian in 93 if you want to use their competition as prove of something.

Try a post where Dorian is actually hitting the pose....

[JP_RC]

I'm not upset -- everyone is entitled to their opinion -- I just don't think Ray was ever better than Dorian.  And, I think it's ridiculous to say "Dorian getting destoyed by someone 3 inches shorter and 50lbs lighter than him."

Yes, the B & W photo is from 94. As are these... (btw, Dorian's color was way off that year, not sure why?)

I'm not upset -- everyone is entitled to their opinion -- I just don't think Ray was ever better than Dorian.  And, I think it's ridiculous to say "Dorian getting destoyed by someone 3 inches shorter and 50lbs lighter than him."

That's ok, I respect your opinion of thinking Dorian was better. I personally think that Shawn should've beaten Dorian in 1994, but definitively not in 1993,1995,1996 and maybe 1992.
I did not write the title on that pic by the way, I took it from a thread in MD. There is a big Shawn fan there who probably made the pic.

[JP_RC]

Yes, the B & W photo is from 94. As are these... (btw, Dorian's color was way off that year, not sure why?)

I didn't catch that one..........

Honestly we can both post pics of either of them beating the other on a respective pose that year, but I think Shawn had the better and more complete physique in 1994.
But let's keep this thread Ronnie vs Dorian ok?  

[JP_RC]

Try a post where Dorian is actually hitting the pose....

OK

[Shockwave]

Do you really want to play the card of the level of competition they faced?
Look how Ronnie looks next to Shawn and Flex in 1998 and then look how Dorian looks to the same men in 1993.
You can say Shawn and Flex were both better in 93 for their conditioning, but Ronnie's conditioning in 98 was just as good as theirs (better in my opinion) coupled with bigger size.
It gives a perspective of how Ronnie of 98 would look next to a Dorian in 93 if you want to use their competition as prove of something.

you can't tell shit from this kind of pics. He only ones you can get a good guage from is the pcs from 96 and 97 where Ronnie and doz are near each other. Ronnies size is 90% there and you get a good impression of clavicle comparisons, and you can tell Dorian is wider than Ronnie. And yes I know Ronnie isn't quite 100% in those pics, but he's an easy 90z

[JP_RC]

More with a pic you posted, so don't call "selective":

[JP_RC]

Last one with the pic you posted RL:

[Shockwave]

You really are hulksters clone. You use all th same comparisons and the same arguments. He'll I even saw a post where you said you the "pics are proof" lol. Btw, in every comparison I see Dorian being slightly larger, more complete head to toe, denser, and depending on the year, drier. Ronnies physique looks extremely impressive but it just looks lke a bunch of impressive bodyparts thrown together. There is no cohesion.

[JP_RC]

you can't tell shit from this kind of pics. He only ones you can get a good guage from is the pcs from 96 and 97 where Ronnie and doz are near each other. Ronnies size is 90% there and you get a good impression of clavicle comparisons, and you can tell Dorian is wider than Ronnie. And yes I know Ronnie isn't quite 100% in those pics, but he's an easy 90z

An easy 90%? Are you serious?

A 96-97 Ronnie is blown away by a 98-99 Ronnie. Just look how he was a 7th-10th place finisher first and then jumped to beat everyone. Did the rest of them just get worse or did Ronnie actually made huge improvements?

you can't tell shit from this kind of pics. He only ones you can get a good guage from is the pcs from 96 and 97 where Ronnie and doz are near each other. Ronnies size is 90% there and you get a good impression of clavicle comparisons, and you can tell Dorian is wider than Ronnie.

You guys started saying Dorian would beat Ronnie using the competition they each faced, I just did the same and showed its not the case.

If you're talking about that 96 GP pic, then let me just say that Dorian isn't that much wider than Ronnie. They are actually pretty equal as far as width is concerned, just look at the fact that they're not even hitting the same pose.

If you want to talk about size only, Ronnie isn't out sized by Dorian all that much in that pic. He was beat because of conditioning mostly.
Now take a 98-99 Ronnie which is bigger/fuller and much better conditioned than his 96 version, then you can see how he would look next to Dorian.
 

[Hulkster]

You use all th same comparisons and the same arguments

of course. because my argument is correct..and my visuals back it up.

[Shockwave]

An easy 90%? Are you serious?

A 96-97 Ronnie is blown away by a 98-99 Ronnie. Just look how he was a 7th-10th place finisher first and then jumped to beat everyone. Did the rest of them just get worse or did Ronnie actually made huge improvements?

You guys started saying Dorian would beat Ronnie using the competition they each faced, I just did the same and showed its not the case.

If you're talking about that 96 GP pic, then let me just say that Dorian isn't that much wider than Ronnie. They are actually pretty equal as far as width is concerned, just look at the fact that they're not even hitting the same pose.

If you want to talk about size only, Ronnie isn't out sized by Dorian all that much in that pic. He was beat because of conditioning mostly.
Now take a 98-99 Ronnie which is bigger/fuller and much better conditioned than his 96 version, then you can see how he would look next to Dorian.
 

ya ronnie is 90% there in 97. He did t suddenly gain 2 ft of width 20 lbs of muscle and lost 20 lbs of fat lol.   He got slightly larger and brought in his conditioning a shit ton. Remember conditining makes someone loom a lot larger. And yea, Ronnie got better but the rest were past their prime and were on they're downhill slide by the one they faced Ronnie. You actliene Ronnie put on 50 lbs between 97 and 98. He picked up a few pounds and really brought in his conditioning. 99 he really didn't have any more size than 98, his conditiong was just a little off from 98. He sacrificed dryness and razor sharp crispness he had in 98 for fullness. Someone should post the 98 vid.  

[Shockwave]

of course. because my argument is correct..and my visuals back it up.

hahaha! Where are all the competitors, judges and experts that agree with you, oh wait, you have non...

Oh I forgot mcgough, but he already said that Dorian 93 would beat Ronnie, bwahahaha!!! Only guy that agrees with you says Ronnie would lose to him! Bwahahaha! Self ownage hulkster. No to mention mcgough specifically days in that article that his 01 showin is better. Lol

[JP_RC]

You really are hulksters clone. You use all th same comparisons and the same arguments. He'll I even saw a post where you said you the "pics are proof" lol. Btw, in every comparison I see Dorian being slightly larger, more complete head to toe, denser, and depending on the year, drier. Ronnies physique looks extremely impressive but it just looks lke a bunch of impressive bodyparts thrown together. There is no cohesion.

You really are hulksters clone. You use all th same comparisons and the same arguments. He'll I even saw a post where you said you the "pics are proof" lol.

Oh dear.........I was using Royal Lion's pics.
He asked me to use pics where Dorian was actually "hitting the pose" and I did it, with the pics he posted. Its not my fault that Ronnie beats Dorian in those comparisons.

Btw, in every comparison I see Dorian being slightly larger, more complete head to toe, denser, and depending on the year, drier. Ronnies physique looks extremely impressive but it just looks lke a bunch of impressive bodyparts thrown together. There is no cohesion.

I strongly disagree. I actually see the opposite, I see Ronnie being slightly bigger/fuller, with equally impressive conditioning, with better proportion and with better symmetry. Not to mention the muscle separations and detail.
I actually see Ronnie's physique as the more complete of the two.

As far as a bunch of impressive bodyparts thrown together, you could say the same about Dorian as neither were known for impressive aesthetics. But Ronnie even has an advantage over Dorian as far as aesthetics is concerned, the shape, taper, small waist, etc.

[Hulkster]

99 he really didn't have any more size than 98

his quads ballooned up in between those years.

[NeoSeminole]

ND, yooouuuuu were amaaaazing. And weeeeee did amaaaaaazing things

here's to 4 yrs of arguing over the same dumb shit, my friend