Dorian Yates - overrated!

[JP_RC]

you see a lot of things , keep looking

prime means the best they've ever looked you're agreeing 94 was his prime and then saying he wasn't past that prime in the subsequent 6 years  he looked that good or better post? Kevin in 2002 pushed Ronnie to the limit that Kevin was NO WHERE he was in 92 or 95 not even close , Ronnie's competition wasn't as conditioned or high caliber as Yates

no it doesn't matter because what are you saying he never looked like that? for the sake of argument Dorian 93 Olympia and 95 would beat Ronnie

they help but like I said they're not accurate , contests separated by 10 years with much improvement in camera technology , different quality , lighting , I mean get serious oh and lets not forget the fact Hulkster has been busted MANY times using manipulated pictures byprofessional graphic artists and one of the best contest photograhers in the business oh and by me and others

they don't show Ronnie was better , fanciful ' comparisons ' made by biased ignorant Coleman nutt-huggers , where Dorian & Ronnie have the same size calves , Dorian has a smaller waist & hips than Ronnie , are you kidding me? pictures back up your claims according to you pictures back up my claims according to me which ones of us is right?  your claims like Hulksters tend to contradict reality and mines are more in line with it , you do the math

NOPE not on par with Yates

McGough said outright , he was better in 98 and in 2001 and neither are on par with Yates , Dorian said its not as good as his , one quote doesn't prove anything to me in relation to whom he was competing with on that year , he didn't face Dorian

he technically is the greatest ever going by his contest wins and Sandows , however in the end it's subjective and not a fact

yes I do think that but we're assuming what people are basing this on , especially laymen and even experts NOT everyone knows the criteria my example of Chris Comier

A comparison with Ronnie as far as posing wouldn't be anywhere near as close , Ronnie sucked as posing neither are Shawn Ray but Ronnie is way off , judges look for everything in the posing rounds and Ronnie's still behind and his posing routines were horrible , I suggest you go watch them



not only that but then we get into limb length , torso length , arm length and how they all relate and tie together , then we talk about glutes and how Ronnie's aren't in proportion and stick to far out they can he seen from the front and forearms in relation to the biceps/triceps , hams in relation to quads a LOT to grasp more than just calves

Ronnie has an advantage in symmetry and that's it Dorian has the advantage in balance & proportion , now couple that with advantages in density & dryness and muscular bulk and posing and you have a Yates win

Again you see a lot of things , Ronnie has some advantages in symmetry and tie-ins , but he doesn't compared to Dorian in density & dryness , size and balance & proportion , and you can't speculate on how Ronnie would appear bigger next to Yates pure fantasy , he already know what a 250lb Ronnie looks like next to a 257lb Dorian and he didn't make him look just as big or bigger

none of it is , complete? at their bests? Dorian hands down , Ronnie has some advantages but overall Dorian is to dominant

perfect example in one of his best Olympia appearances 1998 Flex Wheeler pushed Ronnie to the absolute limit and Ronnie won ( rightly ) by just 3 points one of the closest contests in Olympia history , that Flex was a shadow of himself in 1993 and Dorian was so far ahead of Flex that year it wasn't even funny , Dorian 1993 would trample Ronnie 1998 , you think by adding 8 lbs and coming in less than perfect conditioning would make a dent on Yates? the man who wrote the book on conditioned mass? I think NOT

Ronnie had all of these advantages when he was competing with Yates and where was he? he had the same crazy tie-ins , same gigantic arms , same small waist & hips , same small joints etc the only thing he was lacking was crazy conditioning

prime means the best they've ever looked you're agreeing 94 was his prime and then saying he wasn't past that prime in the subsequent 6 years  he looked that good or better post? Kevin in 2002 pushed Ronnie to the limit that Kevin was NO WHERE he was in 92 or 95 not even close , Ronnie's competition wasn't as conditioned or high caliber as Yates

I meant they weren't on a "downfall" before 2000, I got misunderstood. Shawn's best was 94 for me, but he incredibly good in the following years too before 2000. I think Levrone's best was either 95 or 99, but 99 edging it out.
Ronnie in 2002 is not even close to Ronnie in 98-99.

no it doesn't matter because what are you saying he never looked like that? for the sake of argument Dorian 93 Olympia and 95 would beat Ronnie

I don't see it like this at all.

they help but like I said they're not accurate , contests separated by 10 years with much improvement in camera technology , different quality , lighting , I mean get serious oh and lets not forget the fact Hulkster has been busted MANY times using manipulated pictures byprofessional graphic artists and one of the best contest photograhers in the business oh and by me and others

I understand your point here.
Most of the pics Hulkster posts are valid by the way. He may have posted 1 or 2 faked pics, but that's it.

they don't show Ronnie was better , fanciful ' comparisons ' made by biased ignorant Coleman nutt-huggers , where Dorian & Ronnie have the same size calves , Dorian has a smaller waist & hips than Ronnie , are you kidding me? pictures back up your claims according to you pictures back up my claims according to me which ones of us is right?  your claims like Hulksters tend to contradict reality and mines are more in line with it , you do the math

Almost every pic of Dorian posted here has been compared with a pic of Ronnie having the better physique. And that is besides the few fan made comparisons.

he technically is the greatest ever going by his contest wins and Sandows , however in the end it's subjective and not a fact

How do you know they were going by his contest wins and Sandows, but not because he had the greatest physique of all time?
Some have said he is unbeatable.

not only that but then we get into limb length , torso length , arm length and how they all relate and tie together , then we talk about glutes and how Ronnie's aren't in proportion and stick to far out they can he seen from the front and forearms in relation to the biceps/triceps , hams in relation to quads a LOT to grasp more than just calves

I see that you're kind of trying to nitpick Ronnie's proportional flaws (some that don't even exist), but totally ignore Dorian's obvious and constantly talked about proportional flaws.
Seriously, Ronnie had unproportionate glutes? Forearms? Are you kidding?
You seem to ignore Dorian's arms in relation to his back/torso, his quads weren't that greatly proportionate to his torso either.

Now about limb and torso length, Dorian probably had an advantage in these over Shawn or Nasser (although I disagree on Shawn).
But he didn't over Ronnie. Maybe in torso length, but how about Ronnie's symmetrical advantage as far as a smaller waist and bette taper?
Its a lot closer than you make it out to be.

Ronnie has an advantage in symmetry and that's it Dorian has the advantage in balance & proportion , now couple that with advantages in density & dryness and muscular bulk and posing and you have a Yates win

Again you see a lot of things , Ronnie has some advantages in symmetry and tie-ins , but he doesn't compared to Dorian in density & dryness , size and balance & proportion , and you can't speculate on how Ronnie would appear bigger next to Yates pure fantasy , he already know what a 250lb Ronnie looks like next to a 257lb Dorian and he didn't make him look just as big or bigger

I guess we'll never agree on the proportion and conditioning area. I'm not the only one that disagrees with you though.

and you can't speculate on how Ronnie would appear bigger next to Yates pure fantasy

Don't forget that some (or most) bodybuilders look bigger when they are greatly conditioned and full at the same time (which Ronnie lacked before 1998).

Ronnie had all of these advantages when he was competing with Yates and where was he? he had the same crazy tie-ins , same gigantic arms , same small waist & hips , same small joints etc the only thing he was lacking was crazy conditioning

He was a bit bigger/fuller and the quality of his physique had improved considerably, one example are his quads.

[bodybuilder1234]

jesus christ guys

Shut the f**k up already, you are among the saddest human beings i have ever seen

[Hulkster]

lmfao pre-gut Ronnie LMMFAO what a fucking retard

I didn't say pre gut you fucking idiot.

I said pre MASSIVE gut.

99 gut was much smaller than at the 2001 AC:

more proof for you to deny for the 4 billionth time:

 

[Hulkster]

notice how when fully exhaling in 99, his gut isn't bad at all.

at the AC, it was spilling out over his trunks..

but no, Idiot ND says they are the same LMAO!!

 

why he choses to spend pages arguing against things that are as clear as day is totally retarded.

[Hulkster]

PS thanks for making the 2001 AC gut collage ND.

its easy to use your own creation to make you look like a fucking idiot.

thank again.

keep up the good work!

[JP_RC]

You don't know he had all these bigger parts you're assuming it , arms most certainly , delts ? chest? you couldn't say unless they were on the same stage , quads? depending on the year Ronnie's are bigger you think Ronnie's quads at 247 pounds are bigger than Dorian's at 283? lots of variable but entertaining it's true doesn't mean much bigger automatically doesn't mean better but I agree in some pose some lighter guys look equal the size of heavier ones , however bare this in mind


I.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab

Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.


no one made Yates look small and Ronnie isn't going to only in fan-boy comparisons

did I say that? Dorian has deep muscle separations , detail and striations , Ronnie may have more doesn't mean he's in better condition , Hulkster tried this , Dorian has striations in his obliques , inetercostals , pecs , triceps , traps , lats , lower back , glutes and it's all about all of the above PLUS being bone dry and hard as nails all the while being 260+lbs while being balanced and complete

we've established that already no point in repeating it , you can't see Dorian dominating in 95 doesn't mean it's true or correct

Ronnie does meet part(s) of the criteria better than Dorian but when all is said and done Dorian meets more better

You don't know he had all these bigger parts you're assuming it , arms most certainly , delts ? chest? you couldn't say unless they were on the same stage , quads? depending on the year Ronnie's are bigger you think Ronnie's quads at 247 pounds are bigger than Dorian's at 283? lots of variable but entertaining it's true doesn't mean much bigger automatically doesn't mean better but I agree in some pose some lighter guys look equal the size of heavier ones , however bare this in mind

I'm assuming it based on all the visual proof I see.
Of course all of this "debating" is not 100% accurate since they were never on stage at thier personal bests, but that is why pics and videos give a good idea of how it could be.

If you haven't seen them on stage competing against each other at their respective best ever, how can you be so sure Dorian would win or meet the criteria better? You're going by pics and videos just as I am or Hulkster is.

I.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab

Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.

Good quote that actually shows how Ronnie could look bigger than Dorian despite being lighter.

no one made Yates look small and Ronnie isn't going to only in fan-boy comparisons

See post above.

did I say that? Dorian has deep muscle separations , detail and striations , Ronnie may have more doesn't mean he's in better condition , Hulkster tried this , Dorian has striations in his obliques , inetercostals , pecs , triceps , traps , lats , lower back , glutes and it's all about all of the above PLUS being bone dry and hard as nails all the while being 260+lbs while being balanced and complete

Ok, but comparing Ronnie vs Dorian: who had the advantage on overall muscle separations, detail, striations and tie-ins? Ronnie

Ronnie was also dry & hard in both 98-99, but drier in 98 obviously.  And he was also balanced and complete.

The scale doesn't tilt to Dorian's side as much as you portray it.

[JP_RC]

Seriously ND, are you saying Ronnie's gut in 99 was equally distended as in 2001?

Just watch the videos (whether the photoshoot or contest) of each year and you will see his gut was not even close as distended in 99 as in 2001.

[Hulkster]

Seriously ND, are you saying Ronnie's gut in 99 was equally distended as in 2001?

Just watch the videos (whether the photoshoot or contest) of each year and you will see his gut was not even close as distended in 99 as in 2001.

read this carefully ND.

hopefully you will learning something.

 

[Hulkster]

Seriously ND, are you saying Ronnie's gut in 99 was equally distended as in 2001?

sadly, yes he is. thats what he has been arguing the last few pages .

this is how stupid this guy is..

[Norbert]

Yes, Ronnie at the AC was dam impressive, ultra sheredded. He had greater muscle maturity then he did at the 99 O

[Topskin69]

ND: First off...we need you over in the "Dorian Yates=Epic Fail" thread...so you comment on Dorian's new found quest to make the blender obsolete.

2ndly... You two have been arguing about this for what...going on 6years now?

Why do I feel that Israel has a better chance of making peace with Iran, then you two will? 

[Shockwave]

Lol. Hulkster you are so delusional its rediculous.

[ShipSekki]

jesus christ guys

Shut the f**k up already, you are among the saddest human beings i have ever seen

 I agree.

 I cannot believe how far this thread has gone and how insane the main posters in it are about this shit.

[Sherief Shalaby]

why havent the mods merge this pointless thread with the stupid truce thread??.. why they do this with nasser's threads only?

[ShipSekki]

why havent the mods merge this pointless thread with the stupid truce thread??.. why they do this with nasser's threads only?

 Because I started this thread and i'll beat someone's ass if the thread disapears. They fear me.

[Royal Lion]

 

[RocketSwitch625]

notice how when fully exhaling in 99, his gut isn't bad at all.

at the AC, it was spilling out over his trunks..

but no, Idiot ND says they are the same LMAO!!

 

why he choses to spend pages arguing against things that are as clear as day is totally retarded.

Well, at least Hulkster admits that his ebony hero had one of the worst midsections and worst beer gut ever seen on a bodybuilding stage.

[mesmorph78]

no comparision
like I always say yates is just a really conditioned cuz
ugly phsique

[NarcissisticDeity]

hey ND, how come u post the subjective opinion of experts who say which version of Ronnie has the best physique to argue your point yet you ignore the subjective opinion from the same exact experts who go on to say that Ronnie has a better physique than Dorian?

I never ignore subjective quotes , I take them for what they're worth. there is a very good reason why many feel 2001 is his best and it's based on something that's not subjective , his conditioning.... in 2001 is probably the best it ever was sans 1998

I've always maintained it's more popular an opinion that Ronnie is better than Dorian it doesn't make it so based on that fact.

[Boost]

Dorian is a poor man's Mike Katz

[NarcissisticDeity]

I meant they weren't on a "downfall" before 2000, I got misunderstood. Shawn's best was 94 for me, but he incredibly good in the following years too before 2000. I think Levrone's best was either 95 or 99, but 99 edging it out.
Ronnie in 2002 is not even close to Ronnie in 98-99.

I don't see it like this at all.

I understand your point here.
Most of the pics Hulkster posts are valid by the way. He may have posted 1 or 2 faked pics, but that's it.

Almost every pic of Dorian posted here has been compared with a pic of Ronnie having the better physique. And that is besides the few fan made comparisons.

How do you know they were going by his contest wins and Sandows, but not because he had the greatest physique of all time?
Some have said he is unbeatable.

I see that you're kind of trying to nitpick Ronnie's proportional flaws (some that don't even exist), but totally ignore Dorian's obvious and constantly talked about proportional flaws.
Seriously, Ronnie had unproportionate glutes? Forearms? Are you kidding?
You seem to ignore Dorian's arms in relation to his back/torso, his quads weren't that greatly proportionate to his torso either.

Now about limb and torso length, Dorian probably had an advantage in these over Shawn or Nasser (although I disagree on Shawn).
But he didn't over Ronnie. Maybe in torso length, but how about Ronnie's symmetrical advantage as far as a smaller waist and bette taper?
Its a lot closer than you make it out to be.

I guess we'll never agree on the proportion and conditioning area. I'm not the only one that disagrees with you though.

Don't forget that some (or most) bodybuilders look bigger when they are greatly conditioned and full at the same time (which Ronnie lacked before 1998).

He was a bit bigger/fuller and the quality of his physique had improved considerably, one example are his quads.

I meant they weren't on a "downfall" before 2000, I got misunderstood. Shawn's best was 94 for me, but he incredibly good in the following years too before 2000. I think Levrone's best was either 95 or 99, but 99 edging it out.
Ronnie in 2002 is not even close to Ronnie in 98-99.

There you go again , do yourself a favor type what you mean I can only go by what you post. Like I said before the general consensus is Shawn 94/96 Kevin 92/95

I don't see it like this at all.

I've gathered that much

I understand your point here.
Most of the pics Hulkster posts are valid by the way. He may have posted 1 or 2 faked pics, but that's it.

no he may have NOT posted one or two faked pics and the funny part if we established that Bizzy was working pics so ANYTHING he posted is suspect , Hulkster new this and even after being exposed he continued to post them all the while he had the ones from Forcedreps and Muscletime and the ones I scanned , he posted them because he liked them better

Almost every pic of Dorian posted here has been compared with a pic of Ronnie having the better physique. And that is besides the few fan made comparisons.

says you , I see it differently.....the ' comparisons ' are laughable at best

How do you know they were going by his contest wins and Sandows, but not because he had the greatest physique of all time?
Some have said he is unbeatable.

There you go again looking for the masses to validate your opinion , that's not how it's done a popular opinion doesn't make it a correct one , Arnold said Flex 93 ASC is the greatest physique he's ever seen , as did Diane Bennet ( Wag Bennet's wife ) a lot of people claim Dorian was unbeatable , Ronnie said he couldn't beat Dorian , lots of opinions on a subjective topic no one is right or wrong

I see that you're kind of trying to nitpick Ronnie's proportional flaws (some that don't even exist), but totally ignore Dorian's obvious and constantly talked about proportional flaws.
Seriously, Ronnie had unproportionate glutes? Forearms? Are you kidding?
You seem to ignore Dorian's arms in relation to his back/torso, his quads weren't that greatly proportionate to his torso either.

nitpick? I'll post a pic where you can see Ronnie's glutes from the front if you think that's proportion you're showing your ignorance once again , and yes forearms are NOT in proportion with his massive biceps-triceps , again I'll post a pic . at his best Dorian has better balance & proportion compared to Ronnie without question

Now about limb and torso length, Dorian probably had an advantage in these over Shawn or Nasser (although I disagree on Shawn).
But he didn't over Ronnie. Maybe in torso length, but how about Ronnie's symmetrical advantage as far as a smaller waist and bette taper?
Its a lot closer than you make it out to be.

It's not close , Dorian has a clear advantage , and I've always said Ronnie has a symmetrical advantage but again this does what for him in the ab-thigh? and what for his front-latspread? I'll post the pic and you can clearly see who has the better balance & proportion

I guess we'll never agree on the proportion and conditioning area. I'm not the only one that disagrees with you though.

wow people don't agree with me   another attempt at claiming that if more people disagree it's true?

Don't forget that some (or most) bodybuilders look bigger when they are greatly conditioned and full at the same time (which Ronnie lacked before 1998).

I agree , but we've already established Ronnie couldn't touch Dorian in the conditioning department

I.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab

Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.



  Quote from John Balik, commenting on the 96 O:

  "Dorian Yates looked absolutely fantastic. He was so freaking dense and so freaking ripped and dry, that he actually looked bigger than all the 280 lbs competitors, even though he tipped the scales at 255 lbs."

NO version of Ronnie would make Dorian look small

He was a bit bigger/fuller and the quality of his physique had improved considerably, one example are his quads.

he added more size in 99 at the expense of that bone dry and hard as nails look but by point stands he had all these advantages when he competed with Yates and still loss , you think by coming in with better conditioning & bigger quads he would all the sudden beat Dorian? I think NOT he just barely beat Flex at what he considers his best Olympia and that Flex wasn't as good as he was in 93 when Yates blew him off the stage



1st pic Dorian's forearms are most certainly in better proportion with his biceps-triceps when compared to Ronnie

2nd pic clearly shows Dorian has the better balance & proportion

3rd pic can you see Ronnie's glutes? NOT supposed to from the front bro

[NarcissisticDeity]

I didn't say pre gut you fucking idiot.

I said pre MASSIVE gut.

99 gut was much smaller than at the 2001 AC:

more proof for you to deny for the 4 billionth time:

 

you always referred to Ronnie 99 as ' pre-gut ' go read the first few pages of the Truce thread 

and see above pics

[NarcissisticDeity]

notice how when fully exhaling in 99, his gut isn't bad at all.

at the AC, it was spilling out over his trunks..

but no, Idiot ND says they are the same LMAO!!

 

why he choses to spend pages arguing against things that are as clear as day is totally retarded.

He's not even fully relaxed dumbass , see how Hulkster always tries to slant things in his favor



opppppppssssssssssssssss sss forgot about this pic huh stupid? 

[NarcissisticDeity]

PS thanks for making the 2001 AC gut collage ND.

its easy to use your own creation to make you look like a fucking idiot.

thank again.

keep up the good work!

I never created that dumbass , that was posted by a Ronnie fan    owned again 

[Immortal_Technique]

OMG ND what is this? If Ronnie's superior quads and LATS-TO-WAIST ratio aren't enough in this sillhouette even at this warped scaling you still have to rely on no-one pointing out in real life Ronnie is about 1 - 1.5 inches TALLER than Yates, yet here he appears about the same margin SHORTER. What on earth did you think you were doing posting this? Interesting to note that the small-headed shrunken Ronnie silhouette still matches Dorian for arm measurements, presumably the argument this non-comparison pic is supposed to win for Dorian?

Good joke.