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Author Topic: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question  (Read 10925 times)
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Getbig V
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« Reply #325 on: April 20, 2014, 06:58:39 AM »

Hey Beach bum are you going to a least man up and take a beating or are you going to run away as usual when confronted with reality and not the one that exists solely in your head.

Could you find me more quotes that you think are contradictory yet are completely in line with each other? Perhaps instead of arguing semantics (a losing effort regardless), you could attempt to argue the facts I have presented. Or is it to much medicalese for you to bother? Sometimes understanding things is hard and you have to research, read and learn.

I have never seen a mod get manhandled like this and run from his own board.
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« Reply #326 on: April 21, 2014, 02:47:05 PM »

Not typically.  Plus now a days people smoke a bowl more often then a joint.   Still the same thing though, take few hits, get high, it lasts 1-2 hours until it fully wears off. 

Do you think taking a few hits a day from a bowl (or joint) is excessive? 
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« Reply #327 on: April 21, 2014, 02:51:08 PM »

Hey Beach bum are you going to a least man up and take a beating or are you going to run away as usual when confronted with reality and not the one that exists solely in your head.

Could you find me more quotes that you think are contradictory yet are completely in line with each other? Perhaps instead of arguing semantics (a losing effort regardless), you could attempt to argue the facts I have presented. Or is it to much medicalese for you to bother? Sometimes understanding things is hard and you have to research, read and learn.

I have never seen a mod get manhandled like this and run from his own board.

Aw that's so cute.  Did you miss me?   Cheesy

I'm not going to go back and quote you again.  And all you have been doing is pulling stuff off the internet that supports whatever point you're trying to make, which is that marijuana is a harmless wonder drug that can actually be harmful. lol . . .

I can do that too.  Here is something it took me about 15 seconds to find:

Marijuana also raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

A number of studies have linked chronic marijuana use and mental illness. High doses of marijuana can produce a temporary psychotic reaction (involving hallucinations and paranoia) in some users, and using marijuana can worsen the course of illness in patients with schizophrenia. A series of large studies following users across time also showed a link between marijuana use and later development of psychosis. This relationship was influenced by genetic variables as well as the amount of drug used, drug potency, and the age at which it was first taken—those who start young are at increased risk for later problems.

Associations have also been found between marijuana use and other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts among adolescents, and personality disturbances, including a lack of motivation to engage in typically rewarding activities. More research is still needed to confirm and better understand these linkages.

Marijuana use during pregnancy is associated with increased risk of neurobehavioral problems in babies. Because THC and other compounds in marijuana mimic the body’s own endocannabinoid chemicals, marijuana use by pregnant mothers may alter the developing endocannabinoid system in the brain of the fetus. Consequences for the child may include problems with attention, memory, and problem solving.

Additionally, because it seriously impairs judgment and motor coordination, marijuana contributes to risk of injury or death while driving a car. A recent analysis of data from several studies found that marijuana use more than doubles a driver’s risk of being in an accident. The combination of marijuana and alcohol is worse than either substance alone with respect to driving impairment


http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana

I can be a Google.com expert too.   Smiley
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« Reply #328 on: April 21, 2014, 02:57:39 PM »

Do you think taking a few hits a day from a bowl (or joint) is excessive? 

Define few?

If someone gets mildly high once a day i believe its not much different than having a couple of beers at dinner each day.
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« Reply #329 on: April 21, 2014, 03:03:35 PM »

Define few?

If someone gets mildly high once a day i believe its not much different than having a couple of beers at dinner each day.

I don't know?  Three?  You mentioned a bowl and taking a few hits.  

But your second sentence was what I was asking about.  So mildly high is the same as a couple of beers.  Does that mean a person who is more than "mildly high" (however much smoking that involves) is the same as someone who is actually drunk?  
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« Reply #330 on: April 21, 2014, 03:10:59 PM »

I don't know?  Three?  You mentioned a bowl and taking a few hits.  

But your second sentence was what I was asking about.  So mildly high is the same as a couple of beers.  Does that mean a person who is more than "mildly high" (however much smoking that involves) is the same as someone who is actually drunk?  

Weed impairs people differently than alcohol.  Not sure i can describe it very well or how to put each degree in perspective.  Motor functions seem to diminish on both, but some claim they concentrate much better stoned, which i think is true.  So for some, sometimes that increased concentration leads to better motor functions.

the stoner you get the more mellow you get, where as alcohol can have to opposite effect.  Alcohol is more like liquid courage while weed is more like liquid creativity.  

But what matters is driving or operating heavy machinery.  That's shouldn't be done on weed or alcohol.
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« Reply #331 on: April 21, 2014, 03:25:29 PM »

Weed impairs people differently than alcohol.  Not sure i can describe it very well or how to put each degree in perspective.  Motor functions seem to diminish on both, but some claim they concentrate much better stoned, which i think is true.  So for some, sometimes that increased concentration leads to better motor functions.

the stoner you get the more mellow you get, where as alcohol can have to opposite effect.  Alcohol is more like liquid courage while weed is more like liquid creativity.  

But what matters is driving or operating heavy machinery.  That's shouldn't be done on weed or alcohol.


Reminds me of this Family Guy clip.   Cheesy

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBcVbV6_Vwc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBcVbV6_Vwc</a>

If you think people concentrate better when stoned, then why the prohibition on driving and operating heavy machinery? 
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« Reply #332 on: April 21, 2014, 03:47:38 PM »

Reminds me of this Family Guy clip.   Cheesy

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBcVbV6_Vwc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBcVbV6_Vwc</a>

If you think people concentrate better when stoned, then why the prohibition on driving and operating heavy machinery? 

Because it doesn't affect everyone the same way.  But again, i am not a expert on its effects.  Just lots of first hand experience  Cheesy
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« Reply #333 on: April 21, 2014, 03:49:15 PM »

Because it doesn't affect everyone the same way.  But again, i am not a expert on its effects.  Just lots of first hand experience  Cheesy

With smoking and driving or just smoking?   Shocked 
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Getbig V
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« Reply #334 on: April 21, 2014, 03:49:23 PM »

Aw that's so cute.  Did you miss me?   Cheesy

I'm not going to go back and quote you again.  And all you have been doing is pulling stuff off the internet that supports whatever point you're trying to make, which is that marijuana is a harmless wonder drug that can actually be harmful. lol . . .

I can do that too.  Here is something it took me about 15 seconds to find:

Marijuana also raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

A number of studies have linked chronic marijuana use and mental illness. High doses of marijuana can produce a temporary psychotic reaction (involving hallucinations and paranoia) in some users, and using marijuana can worsen the course of illness in patients with schizophrenia. A series of large studies following users across time also showed a link between marijuana use and later development of psychosis. This relationship was influenced by genetic variables as well as the amount of drug used, drug potency, and the age at which it was first taken—those who start young are at increased risk for later problems.

Associations have also been found between marijuana use and other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts among adolescents, and personality disturbances, including a lack of motivation to engage in typically rewarding activities. More research is still needed to confirm and better understand these linkages.

Marijuana use during pregnancy is associated with increased risk of neurobehavioral problems in babies. Because THC and other compounds in marijuana mimic the body’s own endocannabinoid chemicals, marijuana use by pregnant mothers may alter the developing endocannabinoid system in the brain of the fetus. Consequences for the child may include problems with attention, memory, and problem solving.

Additionally, because it seriously impairs judgment and motor coordination, marijuana contributes to risk of injury or death while driving a car. A recent analysis of data from several studies found that marijuana use more than doubles a driver’s risk of being in an accident. The combination of marijuana and alcohol is worse than either substance alone with respect to driving impairment


http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana

I can be a Google.com expert too.   Smiley

What in the fuck is that? do you know what references are? you have no idea if the claims are true? you just accept their claims? Listen, it's clear you are no academic, you are arguing with a doctor posting retarded articles with no context. These claims are meaningless 1) without references, no competing data, 2)without context. Lets add context and reason to this article. I will stop if you admit you have no idea what you are talking about.however lets destroy this articles regardless.

"Marijuana also raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities."

oh cool, how much does exercise raise the heart rate? caffeine might raise heart rate, let's check. Now I decided to use this study for a reason, to teach you two lessons.

Pharmacotherapy. 2014 Mar 19. doi: 10.1002/phar.1419. [Epub ahead of print]

Effect of Caffeinated Versus Noncaffeinated Energy Drinks on Central Blood Pressures.

Phan JK1, Shah SA.


Author information




Abstract


STUDY OBJECTIVE:

To evaluate the effects of caffeinated energy shots compared with noncaffeinated energy shots as assessed by changes in peripheral and central hemodynamic parameters in healthy subjects.

DESIGN:

Randomized, double-blind, controlled crossover study.

SETTING:

University campus.

PATIENTS:

Ten healthy volunteers.

MEASUREMENTS AND MAIN RESULTS:

Subjects were randomized to receive either a caffeinated or noncaffeinated energy shot; after a minimum 6 days washout period, subjects were given the alternate energy shot. Peripheral blood pressures, and central hemodynamic parameters, were assessed and recorded for each subject at baseline and at 1 and 3 hours after consumption of the energy shots. Peripheral systolic blood pressure (SBP) increased significantly with the caffeinated energy shot compared with noncaffeinated (8.30 ± 4.19 mm Hg and -0.20 ± 5.55, respectively, p=0.009) at 3 hours. Central SBP increased significantly with the caffeinated energy shot compared with noncaffeinated (8.00 ± 4.03 mm Hg and 1.50 ± 6.57, respectively, p=0.045) at 3 hours. Peripheral and central diastolic blood pressure were nonsignificantly higher with the caffeinated energy shot at 3 hours. Peripheral and central pulse pressure were consistently higher with consumption of the caffeinated beverage. Heart rate, augmentation index, pulse pressure amplification ratio, ejection duration and Subendocardial Viability Ratio were not different between the two interventions over time. P1 height was significantly higher with the caffeinated shot compared with the noncaffeinated shot at both 1 and 3 hours (p=0.035 and 0.013, respectively). Three and one subjects experienced an adverse effect with the caffeinated and noncaffeinated shot, respectively.

CONCLUSION:

A caffeinated energy shot acutely increases peripheral and central SBPs compared with a noncaffeinated energy shot. Larger studies with a placebo comparator are needed to assess the significance of peripheral and central hemodynamic changes with noncaffeinated energy drinks.


This gives us two points.One caffeine has some significant effects on blood pressure, pulse and heart rate, and two, it shows that when you compare your articles claim to say this point, it makes no sense. I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you suggesting marijuana is bad because it raises heart rate and that this is a reason for not legalizing? or are you suggesting I didn't know cannabis increase HR? what point are you attempting to get across. It does increase heart rate, however, tolerance develops to that effect overtime, GASP, the point in context makes it less scary and to a degree a half truth. You could critically appraise things too, if you went to school that is.

Let's continue....... shall ... we ....betafag.

"A number of studies have linked chronic marijuana use and mental illness. High doses of marijuana can produce a temporary psychotic reaction (involving hallucinations and paranoia) in some users, and using marijuana can worsen the course of illness in patients with schizophrenia. A series of large studies following users across time also showed a link between marijuana use and later development of psychosis. This relationship was influenced by genetic variables as well as the amount of drug used, drug potency, and the age at which it was first taken—those who start young are at increased risk for later problems.
"

What studies? what type of mental illness? what the fuck..... ok so high doses (too much of the drug) can cause a psychedelic reaction? wait.. well fuck me, cannabis appears to be a mild psychedelic. It's like the alcohol page saying temporary reactions of too much include losing consciousness. You are the type of person who then equates alcohol with losing consciousness, however that's not the whole truth, see how intelligent people think? water intoxication is real, ie to much water, it causes irregular heart beat, coma, death.The last past is just not true, where are they getting this information from? it's clear that genetics not cannabis is the culprit in schizophrenogenesis. Psychosis isn't a sole state, is it chronic or acute? we may never know if these hyperintelligent beings who wrote the above don't fill us in.


"Marijuana use during pregnancy is associated with increased risk of neurobehavioral problems in babies. Because THC and other compounds in marijuana mimic the body’s own endocannabinoid chemicals, marijuana use by pregnant mothers may alter the developing endocannabinoid system in the brain of the fetus. Consequences for the child may include problems with attention, memory, and problem solving."

WTF point are you making, the fucking bitter irony is you posted a abuse fact as if it's marijuana's sole manner of usage. However, i'll play dumbo, I generally like to start the fetus at two joints a day and have him dabbing by 3, certainly no latter then 4 (that would be child abuse). I am a strong proponent of abuse of all things in fact, it's how you get the medicinez to work.

"Additionally, because it seriously impairs judgment and motor coordination, marijuana contributes to risk of injury or death while driving a car. A recent analysis of data from several studies found that marijuana use more than doubles a driver’s risk of being in an accident. The combination of marijuana and alcohol is worse than either substance alone with respect to driving impairment"

Good point brah, I am also a big champion of using drugs and driving for everyone, even those with permits and ride along passes. I wonder how much alcohol increases chance of accident, probably way less right, duh..........\

That last point scares me, if a third drug is added do you become a supervillian? Fuck me, that last point makes sense now. See I didn't understand percentages and synergism, I was like well if alcholo is the worst for impairment, taking some of these Xanax and oxy's won't matter. That explains why I felt a bit more off that night, so did I supoose to substract?Huh?

Thanks for coming out.
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Getbig V
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« Reply #335 on: April 21, 2014, 03:56:53 PM »

What in the fuck is that? do you know what references are? you have no idea if the claims are true? you just accept their claims? Listen, it's clear you are no academic, you are arguing with a doctor posting retarded articles with no context. These claims are meaningless 1) without references, no competing data, 2)without context. Lets add context and reason to this article. I will stop if you admit you have no idea what you are talking about.however lets destroy this articles regardless.

"Marijuana also raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities."

oh cool, how much does exercise raise the heart rate? caffeine might raise heart rate, let's check. Now I decided to use this study for a reason, to teach you two lessons.

Pharmacotherapy. 2014 Mar 19. doi: 10.1002/phar.1419. [Epub ahead of print]

Effect of Caffeinated Versus Noncaffeinated Energy Drinks on Central Blood Pressures.

Phan JK1, Shah SA.


Author information




Abstract


STUDY OBJECTIVE:

To evaluate the effects of caffeinated energy shots compared with noncaffeinated energy shots as assessed by changes in peripheral and central hemodynamic parameters in healthy subjects.

DESIGN:

Randomized, double-blind, controlled crossover study.

SETTING:

University campus.

PATIENTS:

Ten healthy volunteers.

MEASUREMENTS AND MAIN RESULTS:

Subjects were randomized to receive either a caffeinated or noncaffeinated energy shot; after a minimum 6 days washout period, subjects were given the alternate energy shot. Peripheral blood pressures, and central hemodynamic parameters, were assessed and recorded for each subject at baseline and at 1 and 3 hours after consumption of the energy shots. Peripheral systolic blood pressure (SBP) increased significantly with the caffeinated energy shot compared with noncaffeinated (8.30 ± 4.19 mm Hg and -0.20 ± 5.55, respectively, p=0.009) at 3 hours. Central SBP increased significantly with the caffeinated energy shot compared with noncaffeinated (8.00 ± 4.03 mm Hg and 1.50 ± 6.57, respectively, p=0.045) at 3 hours. Peripheral and central diastolic blood pressure were nonsignificantly higher with the caffeinated energy shot at 3 hours. Peripheral and central pulse pressure were consistently higher with consumption of the caffeinated beverage. Heart rate, augmentation index, pulse pressure amplification ratio, ejection duration and Subendocardial Viability Ratio were not different between the two interventions over time. P1 height was significantly higher with the caffeinated shot compared with the noncaffeinated shot at both 1 and 3 hours (p=0.035 and 0.013, respectively). Three and one subjects experienced an adverse effect with the caffeinated and noncaffeinated shot, respectively.

CONCLUSION:

A caffeinated energy shot acutely increases peripheral and central SBPs compared with a noncaffeinated energy shot. Larger studies with a placebo comparator are needed to assess the significance of peripheral and central hemodynamic changes with noncaffeinated energy drinks.


This gives us two points.One caffeine has some significant effects on blood pressure, pulse and heart rate, and two, it shows that when you compare your articles claim to say this point, it makes no sense. I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you suggesting marijuana is bad because it raises heart rate and that this is a reason for not legalizing? or are you suggesting I didn't know cannabis increase HR? what point are you attempting to get across. It does increase heart rate, however, tolerance develops to that effect overtime, GASP, the point in context makes it less scary and to a degree a half truth. You could critically appraise things too, if you went to school that is.

Let's continue....... shall ... we ....betafag.

"A number of studies have linked chronic marijuana use and mental illness. High doses of marijuana can produce a temporary psychotic reaction (involving hallucinations and paranoia) in some users, and using marijuana can worsen the course of illness in patients with schizophrenia. A series of large studies following users across time also showed a link between marijuana use and later development of psychosis. This relationship was influenced by genetic variables as well as the amount of drug used, drug potency, and the age at which it was first taken—those who start young are at increased risk for later problems.
"

What studies? what type of mental illness? what the fuck..... ok so high doses (too much of the drug) can cause a psychedelic reaction? wait.. well fuck me, cannabis appears to be a mild psychedelic. It's like the alcohol page saying temporary reactions of too much include losing consciousness. You are the type of person who then equates alcohol with losing consciousness, however that's not the whole truth, see how intelligent people think? water intoxication is real, ie to much water, it causes irregular heart beat, coma, death.The last past is just not true, where are they getting this information from? it's clear that genetics not cannabis is the culprit in schizophrenogenesis. Psychosis isn't a sole state, is it chronic or acute? we may never know if these hyperintelligent beings who wrote the above don't fill us in.


"Marijuana use during pregnancy is associated with increased risk of neurobehavioral problems in babies. Because THC and other compounds in marijuana mimic the body’s own endocannabinoid chemicals, marijuana use by pregnant mothers may alter the developing endocannabinoid system in the brain of the fetus. Consequences for the child may include problems with attention, memory, and problem solving."

WTF point are you making, the fucking bitter irony is you posted a abuse fact as if it's marijuana's sole manner of usage. However, i'll play dumbo, I generally like to start the fetus at two joints a day and have him dabbing by 3, certainly no latter then 4 (that would be child abuse). I am a strong proponent of abuse of all things in fact, it's how you get the medicinez to work.

"Additionally, because it seriously impairs judgment and motor coordination, marijuana contributes to risk of injury or death while driving a car. A recent analysis of data from several studies found that marijuana use more than doubles a driver’s risk of being in an accident. The combination of marijuana and alcohol is worse than either substance alone with respect to driving impairment"

Good point brah, I am also a big champion of using drugs and driving for everyone, even those with permits and ride along passes. I wonder how much alcohol increases chance of accident, probably way less right, duh..........\

That last point scares me, if a third drug is added do you become a supervillian? Fuck me, that last point makes sense now. See I didn't understand percentages and synergism, I was like well if alcholo is the worst for impairment, taking some of these Xanax and oxy's won't matter. That explains why I felt a bit more off that night, so did I supoose to substract?Huh?

Thanks for coming out.

If you looked at the link, its from a U.S. government agency.  

What I admit is that I'm not an "expert" in what marijuana can or cannot do to the human body.  Neither are you.  You're just a dude I'm exchanging cut-and-paste with on the internet.  

Actually, I think I've learned more from the short exchanges I've had with Ozmo about this subject.  Then again, he's recounting personal experiences without giving me pages of crap he pulled off the internet.
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« Reply #336 on: April 21, 2014, 05:18:28 PM »

With smoking and driving or just smoking?   Shocked 

lol  both.   Shocked
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Getbig V
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« Reply #337 on: April 22, 2014, 03:35:37 AM »

If you looked at the link, its from a U.S. government agency.  

What I admit is that I'm not an "expert" in what marijuana can or cannot do to the human body.  Neither are you.  You're just a dude I'm exchanging cut-and-paste with on the internet.  

Actually, I think I've learned more from the short exchanges I've had with Ozmo about this subject.  Then again, he's recounting personal experiences without giving me pages of crap he pulled off the internet.

If thinking that makes you feel better, I prescribe it or have and I have an intimate knowledge of it. Also, don't equate what I post to what you post, I posted primary research, ie fact, you posted opinion and not even a thorough one. On top of that you appeal to authority, the US government agency, so what. Why are you posting an abuse sheet anyway? perhaps we are all over the place because I am still not sure what your position is, nor am I sure you even know. You seem to be trying to find negatives about the drug, my first post went over those, those same ones you keep bringing up. The reason this is happening is two fold, you don't know what you are reading and/or you didn't read it. I can tell thinking tuckers you out so the latter rather then the former is most likely true.

I am an expert, it may upset you to find that out but some people actually know what they are talking about. You see you have this habit of arguing without actually making any points, it's quite he skill, you skirt the issue and try and obfuscate as much as possible.

The last comment about Ozmo is meant to upset me? Ozmo is a smart guy, he can read the thread and I doubt he would agree with you.

and last, you are left arguing a position you didn't even hold because you have back peddled to the point of an infinite regress my man. You are now posting abuse sheets as a form of argument, your position appears to be that sometimes in some people when the misuse the drug they have moderate-severe side effects. Well you appear to have won the debate, I can't argue that position, although I am not sure I was ever involved with debating it.
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« Reply #338 on: April 22, 2014, 01:10:28 PM »

lol  both.   Shocked

Oh snap.  Better be careful.   Smiley
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« Reply #339 on: April 22, 2014, 01:16:07 PM »

If thinking that makes you feel better, I prescribe it or have and I have an intimate knowledge of it. Also, don't equate what I post to what you post, I posted primary research, ie fact, you posted opinion and not even a thorough one. On top of that you appeal to authority, the US government agency, so what. Why are you posting an abuse sheet anyway? perhaps we are all over the place because I am still not sure what your position is, nor am I sure you even know. You seem to be trying to find negatives about the drug, my first post went over those, those same ones you keep bringing up. The reason this is happening is two fold, you don't know what you are reading and/or you didn't read it. I can tell thinking tuckers you out so the latter rather then the former is most likely true.

I am an expert, it may upset you to find that out but some people actually know what they are talking about. You see you have this habit of arguing without actually making any points, it's quite he skill, you skirt the issue and try and obfuscate as much as possible.

The last comment about Ozmo is meant to upset me? Ozmo is a smart guy, he can read the thread and I doubt he would agree with you.

and last, you are left arguing a position you didn't even hold because you have back peddled to the point of an infinite regress my man. You are now posting abuse sheets as a form of argument, your position appears to be that sometimes in some people when the misuse the drug they have moderate-severe side effects. Well you appear to have won the debate, I can't argue that position, although I am not sure I was ever involved with debating it.

All you did was grab something off the internet and post it.  You interspersed that with technical terms to try and make yourself sound educated about the subject, lobbed repeated insults, then got lonely when I went away for the weekend. 

Here is the primary problem:  for whatever reason, you have a lot invested in this subject and you let emotion get in the way of having a rational discussion. 

I don't really know what I think about this drug.  I had a discussion with someone last night about this.  I'm not sure what I think about whether it should be legal or not, and have not expressed an opinion in this thread one way or the other. 

What I do believe is there are a number of health implications from smoking this stuff.  That was really the start of our exchange.  You can believe this a "wonder drug" all you want.  That isn't what I've been reading about this drug. 
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« Reply #340 on: April 22, 2014, 01:31:19 PM »

All you did was grab something off the internet and post it.  You interspersed that with technical terms to try and make yourself sound educated about the subject, lobbed repeated insults, then got lonely when I went away for the weekend. 
The references are right there for everyone to read, you are not comparing apples to apples. All I did was provide cogent thought out responses with references which demolished you


Here is the primary problem:  for whatever reason, you have a lot invested in this subject and you let emotion get in the way of having a rational discussion. 

I don't think anyone would describe me as emotional. We weren't having a discussion, you were being taught.

I don't really know what I think about this drug.  I had a discussion with someone last night about this.  I'm not sure what I think about whether it should be legal or not, and have not expressed an opinion in this thread one way or the other. 

What I do believe is there are a number of health implications from smoking this stuff.  That was really the start of our exchange.  You can believe this a "wonder drug" all you want.  That isn't what I've been reading about this drug. 
It is a wonder drug for SOME conditions, that is a more true statement. It isn't for the mentally fragile, besides a mechanistic reductionist approach to the drug (which I have taken all thread long) many of the subjective effects are paramount. The chief one being the altered perception, in a simple way it allows you to see truth, it cuts through your bullshit, you can cause harsh reactions in those not prepared for repressed memories etc. This stuff all comes flooding back with chronic use. The paranoia at least feels like this heightened awareness manifest, in other terms you notice so much more through this altered perception you begin to become concerned. Things and patterns you never gave a sniff at become important, instead of numbing you it opens your mind, that can be scary and panic inducing. This is why I use it, I use it to enhance my life, it enhances perceptions, that is, it makes food taste better, touch feel better, sound louder and more vivid, it feels like you are a child again. Even though it's the same stuff, that wonder and awe is there, it enhances life. It helps with meditation and with letting go of ego, power and conformity. I honestly can say that nothing has improved my life and outlook on life more then Cannabis. It's giving into astonishment, the concrete feeling of awe, reproducible walking lucidity.
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« Reply #341 on: April 22, 2014, 01:50:39 PM »

Oh snap.  Better be careful.   Smiley

That was long ago lol.  Would think of it today.
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« Reply #342 on: April 22, 2014, 02:05:34 PM »

That was long ago lol.  Would think of it today.

Good.  You know Big Brother is always watching . . . .
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« Reply #343 on: April 23, 2014, 12:59:41 PM »

 Shocked

The Drinking Age Is Past Its Prime
Camille Paglia   

The age 21 rule sets the United States apart from all advanced Western nations, and it has pushed kids toward pills and other anti-social behavior.

The National Minimum Drinking Age Act, passed by Congress 30 years ago this July, is a gross violation of civil liberties and must be repealed. It is absurd and unjust that young Americans can vote, marry, enter contracts, and serve in the military at 18 but cannot buy an alcoholic drink in a bar or restaurant. The age 21 rule sets the United States apart from all advanced Western nations and lumps it with small or repressive countries like Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Indonesia, Qatar, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates.

Congress was stampeded into this puritanical law by Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), who with all good intentions were wrongly intruding into an area of personal choice exactly as did the hymn-singing 19th-century Temperance crusaders, typified by Carrie Nation smashing beer barrels with her hatchet. Temperance fanaticism eventually triumphed and gave us 14 years of Prohibition. That in turn spawned the crime syndicates for booze smuggling, laying the groundwork for today’s global drug trade. Thanks a lot, Carrie!

Now that marijuana regulations have been liberalized in Colorado, it’s time to strike down this dictatorial national law. Government is not our nanny. The decrease in drunk-driving deaths in recent decades is at least partly attributable to more uniform seat-belt use and a strengthening of DWI penalties. Today, furthermore, there are many other causes of traffic accidents, such as the careless use of cell phones or prescription drugs like Ambien – implicated in the recent trial and acquittal of Kerry Kennedy for driving while impaired.

Learning how to drink responsibly is a basic lesson in growing up — as it is in wine-drinking France or in Germany, with its family-oriented beer gardens and festivals. Wine was built into my own Italian-American upbringing, where children were given sips of my grandfather’s home-made wine. This civilized practice descends from antiquity. Beer was a nourishing food in Egypt and Mesopotamia, and wine was identified with the life force in Greece and Rome: In vino veritas (in wine, truth). Wine as a sacred symbol of unity and regeneration remains in the Christian Communion service. Virginia Woolf wrote that wine with a fine meal lights a “subtle and subterranean glow, which is the rich yellow flame of rational intercourse.”

What this cruel 1984 law did is deprive young people of safe spaces where they could happily drink cheap beer, socialize, chat, and flirt in a free but controlled public environment. Hence in the 1980s we immediately got the scourge of crude binge drinking at campus fraternity keg parties, cut off from the adult world. Women in that boorish free-for-all were suddenly fighting off date rape. Club drugs — Ecstasy, methamphetamine, ketamine (a veterinary tranquilizer) — surged at raves for teenagers and on the gay male circuit scene.

Alcohol relaxes, facilitates interaction, inspires ideas, and promotes humor and hilarity. Used in moderation, it is quickly flushed from the system, with excess punished by a hangover. But deadening pills, such as today’s massively overprescribed anti-depressants, linger in body and brain and may have unrecognized long-term side effects. Those toxic chemicals, often manufactured by shadowy firms abroad, have been worrisomely present in a recent uptick of unexplained suicides and massacres. Half of the urban professional class in the U.S. seems doped on meds these days.

As a libertarian, I support the decriminalization of marijuana, but there are many problems with pot. From my observation, pot may be great for jazz musicians and Beat poets, but it saps energy and will-power and can produce physiological feminization in men. Also, it is difficult to measure the potency of plant-derived substances like pot. With brand-name beer or liquor, however, purchased doses have exactly the same strength and purity from one continent to another, with no fear of contamination by dangerous street additives like PCP.

Exhilaration, ecstasy, and communal vision are the gifts of Dionysus, god of wine. Alcohol’s enhancement of direct face-to-face dialogue is precisely what is needed by today’s technologically agile generation, magically interconnected yet strangely isolated by social media. Clumsy hardcore sexting has sadly supplanted simple hanging out over a beer at a buzzing dive. By undermining the art of conversation, the age 21 law has also had a disastrous effect on our arts and letters, with their increasing dullness and mediocrity. This tyrannical infantilizing of young Americans must stop!

http://time.com/72546/drinking-age-alcohol-repeal/
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« Reply #344 on: April 23, 2014, 01:29:32 PM »

You can die for your country at 18 but you can't drink in it until you are 21. 
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« Reply #345 on: April 23, 2014, 01:34:20 PM »

You can die for your country at 18 but you can't drink in it until you are 21. 

Definitely a contradiction. 

Have you ever seen "physiological feminization in men" from smoking pot? 
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« Reply #346 on: April 23, 2014, 03:43:43 PM »

Huh?
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« Reply #347 on: April 23, 2014, 03:54:14 PM »

Huh?

From the bold part of the opinion piece I posted. 
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« Reply #348 on: April 23, 2014, 06:10:28 PM »

From the bold part of the opinion piece I posted. 
thats opinion laced and likely not factual.    But pot has always been a bit of a demotivator. 
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« Reply #349 on: April 23, 2014, 06:24:55 PM »

thats opinion laced and likely not factual.    But pot has always been a bit of a demotivator. 

Definitely sounds like her opinion.  Was just asking about what you have seen.  I don't recall my pot smoking friends ever being "feminized." 
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