HOW FAR WOULD YOU GO TO KNOW THE SECRET OF LIFE?

[andreisdaman]

what a crock of shit.

I don't believe it either.....there is no sentient "God" in my opinion....no Heaven and no Hell......there just.................is

[Man of Steel]

what a crock of shit.

I don't believe it either.....there is no sentient "God" in my opinion....no Heaven and no Hell......there just.................is

Have either of y'all earnestly sought God (of the bible....the Christian God) according to his terms as outlined in scripture?

[andreisdaman]

Have either of y'all earnestly sought God (of the bible....the Christian God) according to his terms as outlined in scripture?

theres nothing to seek..just some ravings fro a bunch of old guys in ancient times qwho were trying to impose dogma on the rest of society

[Man of Steel]

theres nothing to seek..just some ravings fro a bunch of old guys in ancient times qwho were trying to impose dogma on the rest of society

Have you had the opportunity to read the bible?

How is it you're certain there's nothing to seek?

Do you understand the "dogma"?

[BigRo]

Have either of y'all earnestly sought God (of the bible....the Christian God) according to his terms as outlined in scripture?

I think Jesus would have some things to say about the Bible 

[Man of Steel]

I think Jesus would have some things to say about the Bible 

What do you think he would say about it?

[andreisdaman]

What do you think he would say about it?

that its mostly fake (although maybe not intentionally)

[Man of Steel]

that its mostly fake (although maybe not intentionally)

What parts are fake and what parts are real?

[andreisdaman]

What parts are fake and what parts are real?

I'd have to put some thought into it...but what do you think?

[Man of Steel]

I'd have to put some thought into it...but what do you think?

I believe the bible was written by men under the inspiration of God.  I believe that all 66 books of the bible were written over the course of approx 1,500 years.  I believe the bible to be completely accurate and truthful.  I believe it contains stories of supernatural events and origins.  I believe it contains stories that depict both the best and worst in people.  I believe it to be consistent and accurate.  I believe every bit of the bible points to Jesus Christ and mankind's need for him.   

[andreisdaman]

I believe the bible was written by men under the inspiration of God.  I believe that all 66 books of the bible were written over the course of approx 1,500 years.  I believe the bible to be completely accurate and truthful.  I believe it contains stories of supernatural events and origins.  I believe it contains stories that depict both the best and worst in people.  I believe it to be consistent and accurate.  I believe every bit of the bible points to Jesus Christ and mankind's need for him.   

I believe that the Bible was writen by men who THOUGHT they were under the inspiration of God...I would say that while some events in the Bible did in fact happen, I believe that a lot of the events were ASCRIBED to devine intervention and the supernatural......Maybe the Bible pointed to Jesus but that doesn't mean that Jesus was the son opf God but maybe THOUGHT he was...just as I am sure there were others who THOUGHT they were the son of God as well...not to lessen his importance to the world....he was still the most important figure in the history of the world and yes mankind probably DID need a fugure like him to emerge but he was basically a cult leader NOT the son of God

[Man of Steel]

I believe that the Bible was writen by men who THOUGHT they were under the inspiration of God...I would say that while some events in the Bible did in fact happen, I believe that a lot of the events were ASCRIBED to devine intervention and the supernatural......Maybe the Bible pointed to Jesus but that doesn't mean that Jesus was the son opf God but maybe THOUGHT he was...just as I am sure there were others who THOUGHT they were the son of God as well...not to lessen his importance to the world....he was still the most important figure in the history of the world and yes mankind probably DID need a fugure like him to emerge but he was basically a cult leader NOT the son of God

So you agree that Jesus existed, but you don't believe him to be God.....is that correct?

You also don't believe the bible is inspired by God?

What is your best explanation for prophetic scripture written hundreds and hundreds of years before Christ's life and ministry on earth that predicted his birth and death accurately and was fulfilled completely?

[BigRo]

So you agree that Jesus existed, but you don't believe him to be God.....is that correct?

You also don't believe the bible is inspired by God?

What is your best explanation for prophetic scripture written hundreds and hundreds of years before Christ's life and ministry on earth that predicted his birth and death accurately and was fulfilled completely?

Because I believe in the human potential to awaken and realize their true nature which is oneness I can believe that Jesus was God but not in an exclusive sense of being the only human to unite with the source of life. Indeed I think he would not want us to think this way but to also realize what he realized. The kingdom of heaven is within you, seek and you shall find, these sayings are mystical, encouraging us in to direct experience and liberation not only to live a moral life and believe in the creeds and hope for an eternal afterlife.

[Man of Steel]

Because I believe in the human potential to awaken and realize their true nature which is oneness I can believe that Jesus was God but not in an exclusive sense of being the only human to unite with the source of life. Indeed I think he would not want us to think this way but to also realize what he realized. The kingdom of heaven is within you, seek and you shall find, these sayings are mystical, encouraging us in to direct experience and liberation not only to live a moral life and believe in the creeds and hope for an eternal afterlife.

You have an interesting blend of Christianity, Mormonism, Taoism and Buddhism here.....no disrespect meant.

I don't really know yet how to respond. 

[andreisdaman]

So you agree that Jesus existed, but you don't believe him to be God.....is that correct?

You also don't believe the bible is inspired by God?

What is your best explanation for prophetic scripture written hundreds and hundreds of years before Christ's life and ministry on earth that predicted his birth and death accurately and was fulfilled completely?

I agree Jesus did indeed exist...but he WAS NOT the son of God...He gave himself that title either out of ego or due to being misguided or due to feeling he was truly devinely inspired.....many people do have a sense that they were put on earth for a reason...I think due to what was going on at the time he may have felt like he was the son of God placed on earth for a devine purpose....There are a whole bunch of people today who feel they are devinely chosen or are the son of God....should we give them credence as well??

As for the predictions of the Bible, if you make predictions and wait long enough, a lot of them will come true.....(Just look at the Book of Nostradamus)..there simply is no justification for believing in a God....although I have to admit that the belief in him has probably made humanity better

[andreisdaman]

Because I believe in the human potential to awaken and realize their true nature which is oneness I can believe that Jesus was God but not in an exclusive sense of being the only human to unite with the source of life. Indeed I think he would not want us to think this way but to also realize what he realized. The kingdom of heaven is within you, seek and you shall find, these sayings are mystical, encouraging us in to direct experience and liberation not only to live a moral life and believe in the creeds and hope for an eternal afterlife.

Yes...many people throughout history wake up one day with a unique sense of awareness about the world and whats going on and decide that they are going to change the status quo through leading the upheaval of the current order.......Freud did this when he revolutionized psychology and how we look at human behavior (with his controversial views on sex which the world was not ready for)...Martin Luther did this as well when he called on reform of the catholic church and outlined the reasons why...(very dangerous for its time which could have led to his death)....Galileo, who dared say that the sun and the heavens do not revolve around the earth and that therefore man is not the center of the Universe (for which he was placed on home arrest for the rest of his life).......

Guys like the above are unique individuals in history.....willing to put forth a bold idea that is dangerous, attracts followers and totally scares the poweres-that-be.........I simply believe that Jesus was one such guy........BUT NOT DEVINELY INSPIRED......and regardless, I still maintain he was probably the greatest human being who ever lived

[BigRo]

one can be divinely inspired without falling in to megalomania. This is my view.

[andreisdaman]

one can be divinely inspired without falling in to megalomania. This is my view.

are you saying that Jesus was a megalomaniac?..or not?

[BigRo]

I am not saying that, I think some things were ascribed to him that an enlightened being would not say like;

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

It is the second part of the saying that is problematic. These words were likely ascribed to him by those evangelizing the new faith.

 

[BigRo]

what I am talking about is also at the heart of what I consider the most authentic form of Christianity

http://www.frimmin.com/faith/mysticismintro.php

[Man of Steel]

I am not saying that, I think some things were ascribed to him that an enlightened being would not say like;

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

It is the second part of the saying that is problematic. These words were likely ascribed to him by those evangelizing the new faith.

 

Let's go with your logic then. 

How do you interpret those passages of scripture you quoted?

What do you believe to be the purpose of Jesus' life, ministry and death?

What would be the reason for those evangelizing him to make those claims about him given they were continually in fear of losing their lives (and many did because of their evangelizing)?   

[Man of Steel]

I believe that the Bible was writen by men who THOUGHT they were under the inspiration of God...I would say that while some events in the Bible did in fact happen, I believe that a lot of the events were ASCRIBED to devine intervention and the supernatural......Maybe the Bible pointed to Jesus but that doesn't mean that Jesus was the son opf God but maybe THOUGHT he was...just as I am sure there were others who THOUGHT they were the son of God as well...not to lessen his importance to the world....he was still the most important figure in the history of the world and yes mankind probably DID need a fugure like him to emerge but he was basically a cult leader NOT the son of God

The folks from the now infamous "Jesus Seminar" made a lot of similar claims.  Essentially they edited the gospels of the NT picking and choose what they felt conformed to a more naturalistic and acceptable view of Jesus Christ.  In doing so they acknowledged his life and death, but removed those verses that indicated his divinity and divine purpose.

So, on what basis do you feel appropriate to remove or redefine elements of scripture?  Is it based on your opinion or your own common sense or something else?

[Man of Steel]

what I am talking about is also at the heart of what I consider the most authentic form of Christianity

http://www.frimmin.com/faith/mysticismintro.php

This is essentially a spin on Mormonism in that Mormons aspire to literally become gods themselves.  

New folks that join the Mormon church aren't initially exposed to that idea.....it's not that it's hidden, but it's not initially disclosed either.

Having an encounter with God is at the heart of Christianity, but that encounter involves the Holy Spirit which indwells believers (or lives within the believer).  Yet their nature is still human.....they do not become divine.....there is only one God.

Folks that surrender to God and accept what he did on Calvary's cross and call him savior are saved and deemed righteous.   The encounter with God happens via the Holy Spirit that lives within the believer, changing them from the inside out and purposing them for his will for their lives.

[Man of Steel]

I agree Jesus did indeed exist...but he WAS NOT the son of God...He gave himself that title either out of ego or due to being misguided or due to feeling he was truly devinely inspired.....many people do have a sense that they were put on earth for a reason...I think due to what was going on at the time he may have felt like he was the son of God placed on earth for a devine purpose....There are a whole bunch of people today who feel they are devinely chosen or are the son of God....should we give them credence as well??

As for the predictions of the Bible, if you make predictions and wait long enough, a lot of them will come true.....(Just look at the Book of Nostradamus)..there simply is no justification for believing in a God....although I have to admit that the belief in him has probably made humanity better

Nostradamus' predictions have been repeatedly used to explain different events and his primary predictions have been repeatedly debunked. 

Prophetic scripture, on the other hand, has not been debunked....it's just simply denied or reimagined.   Why?  Doesn't fit people's worldviews.

[Agnostic007]

Nostradamus' predictions have been repeatedly used to explain different events and his primary predictions have been repeatedly debunked. 

Prophetic scripture, on the other hand, has not been debunked....it's just simply denied or reimagined.   Why?  Doesn't fit people's worldviews.

Ironic.... I was just having a discussion with someone the other day about arguing politics and religion. Someone said "name one accomplishment Obama had done in his presidency that wasn't horrific." So the person started naming some things. With each thing offered, the other guy refused to accept it. So at the end of an hour one guy was still convinced Obama hadn't done one good thing and the other guy was convinced his buddy was closed minded and refuses to admit he's wrong. Kind of reminded me of an atheist and a christian arguing over contradictions or prophecies in the bible. It's pointless.