Author Topic: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit  (Read 2460 times)

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2010, 09:06:12 AM »
Now, what this before or AFTER folks actually got the true facts?

Me thinks it was definitely BEFORE!   

The UN told us there were no WMD *before* we invaded.  They scoured Saddam's homes and bathrooms and every spot they wanted - and found zero.

It just took longer for some ppl to accept this fact.

tonymctones

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2010, 10:07:34 AM »
curerntly, without the AZ law, we catch millions of illegals each year, right?


(actually deporting their asses doesn't happen quick enough, of course)
so you think we are doing a good enough job 240?

I think its obvious we arent so something else needs to be done in order to identify them BEFORE they break ANOTHER law...but hey if youre content on waiting for them to break ANOTHER law before we can identify them its whatever...

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2010, 12:10:49 PM »
It's toxic because the majority of the country supports what Arizona is doing. 


Governors: Obama's Immigration Suit Is 'Toxic'

Published July 12, 2010 | FoxNews.com
AP

Democratic governors expressed "grave" concerns to White House officials this weekend about the Obama administration's suit against Arizona's new immigration law, warning it could cost the party in crucial elections this fall, The New York Times reported late Sunday.

The closed-door meeting took place at the National Governors Association in Boston on Saturday, according to two unnamed governors who spoke to the Times.

"Universally the governors are saying, 'We've got to talk about jobs, and all of a sudden we have immigration going on,'" Gov. Phil Bredesen of Tennessee, a Democrat, was quoted as saying. "It is such a toxic subject, such an important time for Democrats."

The Arizona law, which is facing a U.S. Justice Department challenge, requires police to question people about their immigration status while enforcing other laws if there's reason to suspect someone is in the country illegally.

"I might have chosen both a different tack and a different time," Gov. Bill Ritter Jr. of Colorado, a Democrat, was quoted by the Times as saying. "This is an issue that divides us politically, and I'm hopeful that their strategy doesn't do that in a way that makes it more difficult for candidates to get elected, particularly in the West."

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano met privately with Arizona Governor Jan Brewer, who signed the immigration bill into law last month, for a half-hour on Sunday.

Napolitano, the former governor of Arizona, ignored a request for comment following their meeting, but Brewer said the two did not discuss the lawsuit. Instead, she said they had a cordial conversation centered on her efforts to win Arizona more National Guard troops to guard its border with Mexico, as well as her plea for reconnaissance helicopters and more unmanned aerial vehicles to prevent illegal crossings.

Attorney General Eric Holder, meanwhile, said on CBS' "Face the Nation" Sunday that the federal government was leading with its "strongest" argument in the suit filed Tuesday and would not rule out a second suit months down the road -- if the law ends up going into effect.

"It doesn't mean that if the law for whatever reason happened to go into effect, that six months from now, a year from now, we might not look at the impact the law has had ... and see whether or not there has been that racial profiling impact," Holder said. "If that was the case, we would have the tools and we would bring suit on that basis."

The lawsuit filed last week in U.S. District Court in Arizona claimed the state was infringing on federal immigration responsibilities and urged the judge to prevent the law from going into effect at the end of July. Despite some officials' claims that the law could lead to racial profiling, that concern was not cited as grounds for the suit.

Rallying around Gov. Brewer at the Boston meeting, Republican Gov. Dave Heineman of Nebraska told the Times: "I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that almost every state in America next January is going to see a bill similar to Arizona's."

The White House did not directly respond to the Times report of complaints from Democratic governors.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/governors-obamas-immigration-suit-toxic/

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2010, 12:50:14 PM »
so you think we are doing a good enough job 240?

I think its obvious we arent so something else needs to be done in order to identify them BEFORE they break ANOTHER law...but hey if youre content on waiting for them to break ANOTHER law before we can identify them its whatever...

we do a fine job catching them - it's deporting them that is the prob. 

Busted illegals should be kicked out in a week... not this 6 months of appeals bullshite

tonymctones

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2010, 08:53:13 PM »
we do a fine job catching them - it's deporting them that is the prob. 

Busted illegals should be kicked out in a week... not this 6 months of appeals bullshite
http://www.immigrationcounters.com/
LOL so we have an estimated population of around 20 million illegals in this country right?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/03/dhs-corrects-report-that-overs.html
"The 387,790 illegal immigrants removed by ICE in fiscal 2009" of whom 136,116 had criminal convictions...so youre saying that catching 251,674 a year without having to wait for them to break the law is doing a fine job?


sooooooooooo youre ok with only deporting 1.9% of the illegal population a year? thats a satisfactory job to you?


dumb ass why dont you educate yourself on this issue 240? youve done nothing but shoot from the hip and make ignorant assumptions since the arizona law...

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2010, 08:57:25 PM »
"The 387,790 illegal immigrants removed by ICE in fiscal 2009"

What % of those determined to be illegal are actually "removed" each year?


tonymctones

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2010, 09:04:27 PM »
What % of those determined to be illegal are actually "removed" each year?
well seeing as we have an estimated 20 millionish you take 387,790 and you divide it by 20 million

so.....
                                              387,790
                                              20,000,000  

                                                  = 1.93%

is that doing a "fine job" to you?

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2010, 09:09:21 PM »
Respectfully, I disagree with 2 of your points- that there are indeed 20 mil, and that the # of jobs available doesn't affect them staying:



The Department of Homeland Security reported that illegal immigrant population dropped to 10.8 million in 2009 compared to 11.6 million in 2008. It was the second consecutive annual decline and the largest in at least three decades.

According to the report, the downturn in illegal immigration is due in part to the bad economy, in which job opportunities have dried up. Homeland Security department spokesman Matthew Chandler told the paper that the U.S. had also deployed "unprecedented resources" to crack down on illegal immigration.

From DHS report: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/11/national/main6197466.shtml



Seven percent of illegals in the USA left voluntarily last year, due to lack of jobs.

And - if they kicked out 387,790 illegals last year - that means almost 4% were kicked out.

Soooooo if we can boot 5 to 10% each year without violating the rights of any americans who "only" carry a Cali DL, then yes, it's effective!

tonymctones

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2010, 09:19:00 PM »
Respectfully, I disagree with 2 of your points- that there are indeed 20 mil, and that the # of jobs available doesn't affect them staying:



The Department of Homeland Security reported that illegal immigrant population dropped to 10.8 million in 2009 compared to 11.6 million in 2008. It was the second consecutive annual decline and the largest in at least three decades.

According to the report, the downturn in illegal immigration is due in part to the bad economy, in which job opportunities have dried up. Homeland Security department spokesman Matthew Chandler told the paper that the U.S. had also deployed "unprecedented resources" to crack down on illegal immigration.

From DHS report: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/11/national/main6197466.shtml



Seven percent of illegals in the USA left voluntarily last year, due to lack of jobs.

And - if they kicked out 387,790 illegals last year - that means almost 4% were kicked out.

Soooooo if we can boot 5 to 10% each year without violating the rights of any americans who "only" carry a Cali DL, then yes, it's effective!
LMAO so you went from 4% to 10% how did you make that jump?

LOL again ok so just for shits and giggles we will go with your number(even though its just as likely mine is correct)

Soooo youre saying that booting 3.6%(not 4%) is a "fine job"?

taking into account that almost half of that 387,790 had criminal charges? so catching 251,674 illegals without them breaking the law is doing a "fine job"?

to the 2nd point I agree with you if you read the article it actually acknowledges that aspect but my point is disprove what MANY including yourself have said that removing employers will eliminate the problem...

tonymctones

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2010, 09:30:48 PM »
another tid bit for you 240...
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/03/dhs-corrects-report-that-overs.html
"Separately, ICE reported that as of Feb. 1, four months into fiscal 2010, total removals are running at a rate 20 percent below last year, or 17 percent lower counting only deportations."

is this what you consider doing a "fine job"?

LMFAOROTFC no wonder you always think obama is doing a good job... ;)

so at this rate we will deport 2.88% of the illegals in this country a model of efficiency  ::) ::) ::) and a very "fine job" if you ask 240... ;)

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2010, 09:30:56 PM »
The combination of economic voluntarily leaves + deportations = somewhere between 7% (the drop in 2009, or 11.6 mil to 10.8 mil) and 11% (the maximum total of this 7% plus the approx 4% of deports).

that's why I put 5% - a very conservative low number.  Hell, if 5% left every year, I think most americans would be happy.  Without a single fired shot.  Without a single american on the curb because his cali ID isn't good enough.  

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2010, 09:31:56 PM »
we don't have to deport a single one... hell, if 7% of them left WITHOUT ICE shutting down employers... imagine the success if they aggressively went after employers, who in turn started firing them

tonymctones

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2010, 09:34:47 PM »
The combination of economic voluntarily leaves + deportations = somewhere between 7% (the drop in 2009, or 11.6 mil to 10.8 mil) and 11% (the maximum total of this 7% plus the approx 4% of deports).

that's why I put 5% - a very conservative low number.  Hell, if 5% left every year, I think most americans would be happy.  Without a single fired shot.  Without a single american on the curb because his cali ID isn't good enough.  
LMAO so what happens when the economy turns around 240?  ::)

and youre statement was about the number we are deporting not the the number leaving voluntarily...so Ill ask you again do you think that 3.6% of the illegal population being deported last year is a satisfactory number?

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2010, 10:35:46 PM »
Issa: Justice lawsuit against Arizona is a 'misuse of the Supremacy Clause'
By Bridget Johnson   
07/11/10

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform ranking member predicted the Supreme Court would rule such.

House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform Ranking Member Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said Sunday that the Obama administration's decision to sue Arizona over its controversial immigration law is a "miuse of the Supremacy Clause."

Issa also expressed confidence that the Supreme Court would side with the border state.

“The administration can’t have it both ways,” Issa said on C-SPAN's "Newsmakers" Sunday. “They can’t have e-verify, they can’t have these programs where they’re supposed to take criminals and pass them over to the federal government if they’re illegally in the country and then say, ‘but if you do it wholesale where it actually works, we’re going to come after you.’

"That’s unacceptable and it’s certainly is a misuse of the Supremacy clause and I’m convinced that the Supreme Court will rule that way - that you can’t stop a state within its rights from asserting its sovereignty in support of federal law as long as they’re some state nexus which they’re clearly is."

Issa also noted that Arizona "is not incarcerating people for being illegally in the country, they’re offering them up to the federal government to take their responsibility."

On charges that the law might lead to racial profiling, he said it was unprecendented to challenge "something because it might lead to something."

"There’s nowhere in the Constitution that says a state is limited to what it absolutely won’t do and can be stopped for what it might do…but for the Justice Department to ignore real problems around the country and spend time going after a state who simply says we’re going to self-help consistent with existing federal programs that have been passed by Republican and Democratic presidents – that’s pretty absurd,” Issa said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/108047-issa-justice-dept-lawsuit-is-misuse-of-the-supremacy-clause

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2010, 01:56:21 AM »
LMAO so what happens when the economy turns around 240?  ::)

and youre statement was about the number we are deporting not the the number leaving voluntarily...so Ill ask you again do you think that 3.6% of the illegal population being deported last year is a satisfactory number?


7% LEFT LAST YEAR N THEIR OWN.

Remove jobs, and 1 in 15 illegals left the USA last year.

Remove a lot more jobs than that thru employer busts.  I dont know why anyone minds busting employers that hire illegals.

tonymctones

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2010, 06:59:28 AM »

7% LEFT LAST YEAR N THEIR OWN.

Remove jobs, and 1 in 15 illegals left the USA last year.

Remove a lot more jobs than that thru employer busts.  I dont know why anyone minds busting employers that hire illegals.
YOUR COMMENT WAS ABOUT THE NUMBER OF ILLEGALS WE ARE DEPORTING...if they leave on their own we arent deporting them...

so Ill ask you again 240 is a 3.6% deportion rate a year of illegal immigrants what you consider a satisfactory job?

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2010, 07:32:56 AM »
YOUR COMMENT WAS ABOUT THE NUMBER OF ILLEGALS WE ARE DEPORTING...if they leave on their own we arent deporting them...

so Ill ask you again 240 is a 3.6% deportion rate a year of illegal immigrants what you consider a satisfactory job?

I'm still a little unsure - how many illegals were actually caught and determined to be illegals?  What % of them (caught and determined to be here illegally) actually get sent home?

tonymctones

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2010, 07:56:23 AM »
I'm still a little unsure - how many illegals were actually caught and determined to be illegals?  What % of them (caught and determined to be here illegally) actually get sent home?

LOL so at the very least you talked out of your ass without knowing any facts? seems like quite the habit for you  ;)

iono how many are determined illegals are in this country 240 but we have 10.6 million(again a conservative number) and only 3.6% were deported last year(again a conservative number)

put aside the number that were determined and look at only the 3.6% 240, is that a satisfactory job considering we have 10.6 million in the US?

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2010, 08:09:14 AM »
LOL so at the very least you talked out of your ass without knowing any facts? seems like quite the habit for you  ;)

iono how many are determined illegals are in this country 240 but we have 10.6 million(again a conservative number) and only 3.6% were deported last year(again a conservative number)

put aside the number that were determined and look at only the 3.6% 240, is that a satisfactory job considering we have 10.6 million in the US?

Without knowing any facts?  I asked you.

I asked early on what % of those actually CAUGHT were kicked out?

Nobody can answer this.

And we didn't just lose 3.6% of them last year.... we lost 7% (by DHS numbers) because the jobs dried up. 

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2010, 11:41:39 AM »
Without knowing any facts?  I asked you.

I asked early on what % of those actually CAUGHT were kicked out?

Nobody can answer this.

And we didn't just lose 3.6% of them last year.... we lost 7% (by DHS numbers) because the jobs dried up. 

so youre saying that when you made this comment you had no idea what the numbers where?
we do a fine job catching them - it's deporting them that is the prob. 

Busted illegals should be kicked out in a week... not this 6 months of appeals bullshite

well then by all means do tell us what you were basing your judgement on....

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2010, 11:52:12 AM »
yeah, sorry bro.  7% yearly is good for me.  I demostrated that's happening.

you don't know what % get removed of those caught... so your argument we dont do enough... well, have fun with it.  You started a thread about employment, I made my point, and here we are.

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2010, 11:57:52 AM »
yeah, sorry bro.  7% yearly is good for me.  I demostrated that's happening.

you don't know what % get removed of those caught... so your argument we dont do enough... well, have fun with it.  You started a thread about employment, I made my point, and here we are.
LMAO so what happens when the economy turns back around 240 and the 4% that left voluntarily turns into 4% more coming in?

so you think 3.6% is a satisfactory job?

you made an ignorant point even if it stayed at 7% you really think thats satisfactory? honestly?  ::) ::) ::)

I dont have to know I know that only 3.6% conservatively get deported every year...thats not nearly enough for a person of rational intelligence...even if only 10% of those identified are deported wouldnt it make sense then to identify more so that way more get deported?  ;)

again the ppl against this bill have no idea of the ins and outs of the immigration problem let alone any first hand knowledge of the problem...go educate yourself 240  :(

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2010, 12:12:40 PM »
So 3.6 out of every 100 get deported. That's a STELLAR job.  ::)

tonymctones

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2010, 12:13:45 PM »
So 3.6 out of every 100 get deported. That's a STELLAR job.  ::)
LMAO gotta love the idiocy on this board from time to time....

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Re: Half of Americans Oppose Obama's Immigration Lawsuit
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2010, 12:21:30 PM »
7% left last year because there were less jobs.

That's WITHOUT a nationwide ICE employer mission.

You put one of those into place, and a lot more than 7% will leave (on their own!)

Or, you can keep giving BJs to crooked cops so they'll accept your cali ID, give up your rights, etc etc... that's cool. 

however, it's pretty funny that DOUBLE the number of illegals left VOLUNTARILY than the number who was DEPORTED last year.