Dorian said "Ronnie would probably win, I don't know"

[Immortal_Technique]

he said he could't beat them in their eras , Dorian was in Ronnie's era and the main difference being , Arnold and Haney never beat Ronnie , Dorian did for years

you purposely omitted the part where he said ' I guess I DON'T KNOW ' and it's a fact when Dorian says it yet not when Ronnie says it , I wont make excuses and claim Dorian's just being humble I'll leave that to you guys

Where did I say he didn't improve? he did mainly in the conditioning department , and did you forget he was beating these exact same guys before he won the Olympia?

the argument is based on who at their best , obviously a vast majority of people feel this was the best Dorian's looked , the hypothetical part is if he stepped on-stage in that condition and this may not even be the best he's looked , according to Kevin Horton it's precontest 1995 when he was 283lbs shredded in the front latspread posted on bodybuilding.com you know the one Hulkster cried morphed

Dorian admitted he was dropping to much weight in an effort to get better conditioned and he realized he wasn't losing any more fat & water he was losing pure muscle which is why 1993 precontest is considered his best because for all intents & purposes he's contest ready in those pics

I dunno cos Ronnie was still competing 10 years after Dorian quit. Dorian was at his best closer to Haney's era. And why would Ronnie refer to "their era's" if in Dorian's case he meant his own era. He then says (to paraphrase) "come on this is Ronnie's era" or something which renders your point mute. It's not a fact whether Dorian or Ronnie say it, just carefully chosen speculative words issued to the bodybuilding press. It's you who based the title of the original thread on Ronnie's words.

I kind of thought a lot of your argument was based on Ronnie's apparent lack of improvement from 96 to 98. I will now at least be able to quote you as saying he improved.

I kind of also thought that bringing the best package to the stage was a huge part of what makes bodybuilding so hard. Dennis James is famous for looking better 3 weeks before the show. Titus and Kamali always look the best they've looked in their kitchen with exaggerated shadows etc. Then.. step onstage and the stage lights wash it all away. This is why it's not surprising people look their best off-stage, often in their favourite pose. Of course Dorian knows his onions more than Kamali and Titus but you know as well as anyone to presume with '93 b/w 2 weeks out sock-wearing Dorian that areas like lower back would look water-free and up to Dorian's usual standard once he got under proper lights next to other competitors.

[Palpatine Q]

wow says the guy who claims this shit is ' life or death ' for me or I'm ' melting down '  and wishes other members be hit by a bus and paralyzed for life , what are you 16? hypocrite much?

I would think "Obsessed" and "meltdown"  would be textbook definitions of some guy that comes here every single day and puts up THOUSANDS of posts..... has the same argument, and says the same exact shit, for YEARS...... because he thinks bodybuilder A is better than bodybuilder B

you can't talk about anyone, except maybe Hulkster and BigBobs...you are the "big three" of obsessing over men in thongs.

A normal person would have said.."yeah, I think Dorian is better, but you are entitled to your opinion"...six years and 30,000 posts ago

[NarcissisticDeity]

I dunno cos Ronnie was still competing 10 years after Dorian quit. Dorian was at his best closer to Haney's era. And why would Ronnie refer to "their era's" if in Dorian's case he meant his own era. He then says (to paraphrase) "come on this is Ronnie's era" or something which renders your point mute. It's not a fact whether Dorian or Ronnie say it, just carefully chosen speculative words issued to the bodybuilding press. It's you who based the title of the original thread on Ronnie's words.

I kind of thought a lot of your argument was based on Ronnie's apparent lack of improvement from 96 to 98. I will now at least be able to quote you as saying he improved.

I kind of also thought that bringing the best package to the stage was a huge part of what makes bodybuilding so hard. Dennis James is famous for looking better 3 weeks before the show. Titus and Kamali always look the best they've looked in their kitchen with exaggerated shadows etc. Then.. step onstage and the stage lights wash it all away. This is why it's not surprising people look their best off-stage, often in their favourite pose. Of course Dorian knows his onions more than Kamali and Titus but you know as well as anyone to presume with '93 b/w 2 weeks out sock-wearing Dorian that areas like lower back would look water-free and up to Dorian's usual standard once he got under proper lights next to other competitors.

I dunno cos Ronnie was still competing 10 years after Dorian quit. Dorian was at his best closer to Haney's era. And why would Ronnie refer to "their era's" if in Dorian's case he meant his own era. He then says (to paraphrase) "come on this is Ronnie's era" or something which renders your point mute. It's not a fact whether Dorian or Ronnie say it, just carefully chosen speculative words issued to the bodybuilding press. It's you who based the title of the original thread on Ronnie's words.

Ronnie & Dorian competed at the same time , Dorian's career was cut short due to injuries , Ronnie tuned pro a year after Dorian so they were in the same era. And technically Dorian's ' era ' ended when he retired but they were contemporaries , unlike Haney and Ronnie and Arnold.

I kind of thought a lot of your argument was based on Ronnie's apparent lack of improvement from 96 to 98. I will now at least be able to quote you as saying he improved.

The biggest area Ronnie improved on was his conditioning , he was already winning pro shows , beating , Kev , Shawn , Flex , Nasser , he already had the size , etc

I kind of also thought that bringing the best package to the stage was a huge part of what makes bodybuilding so hard. Dennis James is famous for looking better 3 weeks before the show. Titus and Kamali always look the best they've looked in their kitchen with exaggerated shadows etc. Then.. step onstage and the stage lights wash it all away. This is why it's not surprising people look their best off-stage, often in their favourite pose. Of course Dorian knows his onions more than Kamali and Titus but you know as well as anyone to presume with '93 b/w 2 weeks out sock-wearing Dorian that areas like lower back would look water-free and up to Dorian's usual standard once he got under proper lights next to other competitors.

Like I said many people considered this his best and said he could compete AND win the Olympia in that condition , like Yates himself said he was already in contest shape weeks out and then he realized at that point he was just losing pure muscle so that's the difference between him and Kamali & James

[NeoSeminole]

let's see how long until ND cracks

Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49

"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."

John Plummer – Flexonline 2003 Mr. Olympia Contest Review

"The long-awaited triple showdown between Coleman, Jay Cutler and Günter Schlierkamp failed to materialize as the defending champion destroyed all-comers with possibly the most awesome physique ever seen on a bodybuilding stage."

http://www.flexonline.com.au/216.html

Hany Rambod - MD, February 2004

"[Ronnie] was so far ahead of everyone else, I heard a rumor that his DNA actually tested positive for being an alien."

Lonnie Teper - MD, December 2005

"I've always said that it's too hard to compare athletes of different eras (then he names a few Mr. Olympias including Dorian). Still, it's hard to imagine that anybody who's ever stepped on a bodybuilding stage could have beaten Coleman. So I reserve the right to change my mind on this one. No offense to the rest of the champs - you were/are all truly amazing physique athletes - but Coleman has really taken it to the next level, as all magnificent conquerors do."

Peter McGough - Flex, August 2005

"Ronnie sporting that [01 ASC] look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable."

Peter McGough - Flex, April 2002

“[Ronnie Coleman] bounced back to win the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic with a physique that may have been the best ever seen.”

Shawn Perine Ironage Dec 11, 2004

“As much as I love Haney and my IA champs, I think Ronnie circa '98 or at the 2001 Arnold is pretty much untouchable. Except by Dorian Yates 6 weeks out from the '93 O as photographed by our own KMH. Both men, on those specific occasions carried so much dry muscle mass in good proportion and with good lines that it's almost unfair to compare them to others.”

Shawn Perine - Flex, July 2007 p. 207

"After all, he's still, even at 43 yrs old, eight-time Mr. O Ronnie freakin' Coleman. Which is to say, arguably the best bodybuilder who has ever lived."

Tony Doherty - Heavy Muscle Radio (03-16-09)

"Ronnie is the best ever. No one even comes close."

Tony Doherty - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=270388.msg3803035#msg3803035

"Absolutely no question. The best ever, I have seen them and worked with them all. Seeing Ronnie in 2003 was like looking into the future!"

Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer

"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"

http://www.muscletime.com/news/contest-results/2007-mr-olympia-analysis

Steve Blechman - MD, February 2004

"Ronnie perseveres and proves continually that, at his best, he is unbeatable."

"Ronnie Coleman is not only the greatest Mr. O of all time, he is also one of the oldest"

Greg Merritt - Flex, July 2007 p. 212

"Coleman is only two years older than the new Mr. O (hypothetical article saying if Toney Freeman won), but time stops for no man, including the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived."

Greg Meritt – http://www.metroflexgymtraining.com/testimonials.html

“From the greatest bodybuilder of all-time, Ronnie Coleman, to gregarious owner Brian Dobson to the kid who joined yesterday, everyone is trying to push themselves further than ever before, and it’s the energy of this shared commitment that makes Metroflex great.”

Chris Lund (Paraphrased by Milos Sarcev) - European Flex, April 2004

"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=237938.0

Hollis Liebman - Former Fitness Editor and IFBB Official

"The era of the big man would commence with Lee Haney (1984-1991), whose formidable torso would dominate the lineup for 8 straight years and was then elevated by Dorian Yates (1992-1997), whose back and overall conditioning upped the ante yet again until an alien named Ronnie Coleman (1998-2005), in all likelihood the greatest bodybuilder of all time, would redefine the sport bringing a near 300 pound contest ready physique to the stage."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238675.0

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."

Paul Dillet - MD, February 2004

"Understand that if Ronnie walked away tomorrow, I do not think anyone can measure up to the standards he has set. Just like Sergio Oliva, an awesome bodybuilder way ahead of his time, and like Flex Wheeler, who had an absolutely perfect, beautiful physique. No one will match Serigo or Flex and now Ronnie."

Mike Matarazzo – Flex, January 1999

“I think this creature from another planet, Ronnie Coleman, is going to be number one for a while. I think that, in the shape he was in, he would have beaten Dorian Yates. Ronnie has every single attribute it takes to be the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived.”

Jean Pierre Fux - Personal Website

"The current Mr. Olympia (Ronnie Coleman). In top shape, probably the best physique that ever stepped on stage."

[NarcissisticDeity]

in before ND posts quotes from non-judges saying Dorian looked his best pre-contest but ignores quotes saying Ronnie is better b/c they "are not judges"

No dumb Neo , you're the one who claimed Ronnie wasn't fit to judge contests NOT I  I just used your logic against you , and I've been the ONLY one for a long time now saying in the end the only ones that matter are the judges. 

oh and to further make you look dense , IFBB Judge Dorian Yates said he looked his best 1993 precontest so what now? 

[NarcissisticDeity]

let's see how long until ND cracks

lets use Neo's own stupid logic against him ,

None of those guys are fit to judge 

[NarcissisticDeity]

I would think "Obsessed" and "meltdown"  would be textbook definitions of some guy that comes here every single day and puts up THOUSANDS of posts..... has the same argument, and says the same exact shit, for YEARS...... because he thinks bodybuilder A is better than bodybuilder B

you can't talk about anyone, except maybe Hulkster and BigBobs...you are the "big three" of obsessing over men in thongs.

A normal person would have said.."yeah, I think Dorian is better, but you are entitled to your opinion"...six years and 30,000 posts ago

You're a hypocrite you're the same guy fighting with Bobs and Sherif over the same trivial nonsense , quit bitching hypocrite.

[Shockwave]

Neo I dont know why you keep up this charade, you and I both know you are a closet Dorian lover, I dont understand why you keep on riling this argument up. 

[NeoSeminole]

No dumb Neo , you're the one who claimed Ronnie wasn't fit to judge contests NOT I I just used your logic against you , and I've been the ONLY one for a long time now saying in the end the only ones that matter are the judges.

lmao @ you trying to sound smart. I've been parodying you since day 1 to expose your hypocrisy and infantile arguments. You can't use my logic against me since, in essence, that means you are using your own logic against yourself

[NeoSeminole]

oh and to further make you look dense , IFBB Judge Dorian Yates said he looked his best 1993 precontest so what now?

you mean this guy? Ah, gotcha!

Dorian Yates – PBW Radio Interview

"The judges would probably choose Ronnie [over me]."

[NarcissisticDeity]

you mean this guy? Ah, gotcha!

Dorian Yates – PBW Radio Interview

"The judges would probably choose Ronnie [over me]."

Omitting a part? The I guess I DON'T KNOW? oppppss purposely forgot that part huh?  I wonder why 

[NeoSeminole]

lets use Neo's own stupid logic against him , None of those guys are fit to judge

Joe Weider, the co-founder of the IFBB, isn't fit to apply the judging criteria he instituted in his own organization?

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?

[NeoSeminole]

Omitting a part? The I guess I DON'T KNOW? oppppss purposely forgot that part huh?  I wonder why

Did Dorian say "the judges would probably choose Ronnie" when asked who would win in a contest between the both of them? Yes or no?

[Shockwave]

Joe Weider, the co-founder of the IFBB, isn't fit to apply the judging criteria he instituted in his own organization?

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?

Neo I dont know why you keep up this charade, you and I both know you are a closet Dorian lover, I dont understand why you keep on riling this argument up. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

lmao @ you trying to sound smart. I've been parodying you since day 1 to expose your hypocrisy and infantile arguments. You can't use my logic against me since, in essence, that means you are using your own logic against yourself

Yeah , yeah sure , sure Neo

I've always maintained in the end only the judges matter , you think your popular opinion if proof of anything is laughable it's the most faulty logic

you can't even get the basics right , you're the guy who thinks balance & proportion are the same thing LMFAO and Ronnie's harder & drier , oh and he carries more muscular bulk ( with worse conditioning ironically ) than Dorian despite being 22lbs lighter lol

you're the one hopelessly in over your head and wants to prove to me so bad you can hang with the big boys , I'll be waiting for your next ' internet challenge ' lmfao when things aren't going your way in an argument try an internet challenge 

ah well, I'm off to the gym. I'll let ND and Mr.1derful continue posting in my absence. Who knows... maybe I'll compete in the next Mr. Getbig. I've put on a lot of size and worked on my weaknesses since Mr. Getbig 2. I would encourage ND to enter since he claims he's bigger than me but I know he'll just come up with an excuse to pussy out

[Palpatine Q]

You're a hypocrite you're the same guy fighting with Bobs and Sherif over the same trivial nonsense , quit bitching hypocrite.

Apples and oranges....we go back and forth occasionally, sometimes it get out of hand, but it's more an ownage type thing all in fun. We say ridiculous shit about each other and everyone knows it's nonsense.  Like i really threw Nasser down a flight of stairs  


PS I haven't posted a word to any of them in a month


You have spent the better part of 33,000 posts on the same exact topic every single day, posting 1000 word manifestos....trying to shout everyone down who doesn't agree with you.

There is no comparison.

[NeoSeminole]

^^^

b/c it's too fun watching ND meltdown and digress into an infantile mental state. He thinks by covering his eyes, the quotes that say Ronnie is better will magically disappear. I wonder at what age other humans also do this

[NarcissisticDeity]

Joe Weider, the co-founder of the IFBB, isn't fit to apply the judging criteria he instituted in his own organization?

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?

The judging criteria FYI Neo was around longer than the IFBB was    the Weiders boosted a lot of things from other people ask Dan Laurie , Oh and Joe Weider once complained Sergio Oliva's waist was to small 

Is Joe Weider a judge? NO using your own logic fanboy , he's NOT fit to judge contests , this is according to YOU , don't try and shift the topic my way.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Apples and oranges....we go back and forth occasionally, sometimes it get out of hand, but it's more an ownage type thing all in fun. We say ridiculous shit about each other and everyone knows it's nonsense.  Like i really threw Nasser down a flight of stairs  


PS I haven't posted a word to any of them in a month


You have spent the better part of 33,000 posts on the same exact topic every single day, posting 1000 word manifestos....trying to shout everyone down who doesn't agree with you.

There is no comparison.

Nonsense , quit being a hypocrite you're guilty of doing the exact same thing , quit your bitching. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Did Dorian say "the judges would probably choose Ronnie" when asked who would win in a contest between the both of them? Yes or no?

did Dorian say after that " I guess I don't know " ? you omitted that for a reason , your deceptive angling it proves you think the story ends there.

[NeoSeminole]

I've always maintained in the end only the judges matter , you think your popular opinion if proof of anything is laughable it's the most faulty logic

the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend favoring size. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reason Gaspari lost to Haney and Dexter lost to Ronnie. As long as the biggest guy comes in with good conditioning and relatively good symmetry, he will beat out a smaller guy with great conditioning and balance.

you can't even get the basics right , you're the guy who thinks balance & proportion are the same thing LMFAO and Ronnie's harder & drier , oh and he carries more muscular bulk ( with worse conditioning ironically ) than Dorian despite being 22lbs lighter lol

newsflash: man landed on the moon. Any other old news you want to keep reminding us of? It's like me saying "you're the same guy who thinks 2+2=5." I may have confused balance and proportion 3 yrs ago but what does that have to do with this discussion?

[NarcissisticDeity]

^^^

b/c it's too fun watching ND meltdown and digress into an infantile mental state. He thinks by covering his eyes, the quotes that say Ronnie is better will magically disappear. I wonder at what age other humans also do this

wow because I never addressed them dozens of times before. Neo said Ronnie's not fit to judge , then by your own retarded logic NONE of them are either and your exercise proves one thing , it's a popular opinion Ronnie would beat Dorian , go look up argument ad populum kid

And subjective opinions works two ways , some people ( who are NOT fit to judge contests either ) claim Dorian would beat Ronnie but Neo only sees what he likes , it's called counting the pluses and not counting the negatives , Christians do it often in apologetics.

[NeoSeminole]

The judging criteria FYI Neo was around longer than the IFBB was the Weiders boosted a lot of things from other people ask Dan Laurie , Oh and Joe Weider once complained Sergio Oliva's waist was to small

Is Joe Weider a judge? NO using your own logic fanboy , he's NOT fit to judge contests , this is according to YOU , don't try and shift the topic my way.

epic avoiding my question. Are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?

[NeoSeminole]

did Dorian say after that " I guess I don't know " ? you omitted that for a reason , your deceptive angling it proves you think the story ends there.

Did Dorian say "the judges would probably choose Ronnie" when asked who would win in a contest between the both of them? Yes or no?

[NarcissisticDeity]

the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend favoring size. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reason Gaspari lost to Haney and Dexter lost to Ronnie. As long as the biggest guy comes in with good conditioning and relatively good symmetry, he will beat out a smaller guy with great conditioning and balance.

newsflash: man landed on the moon. Any other old news you want to keep reminding us of? It's like me saying "you're the same guy who thinks 2+2=5." I may have confused balance and proportion 3 yrs ago but what does that have to do with this discussion?

the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend favoring size. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reason Gaspari lost to Haney and Dexter lost to Ronnie. As long as the biggest guy comes in with good conditioning and relatively good symmetry, he will beat out a smaller guy with great conditioning and balance.

2008 Mr Olympia Dexter Jackson , shuts that argument down thanks for playing and great job of cherry picking the judging criteria and making a blanket statement , the judges at the Mr Olympia set a trend that the winner is the guy who satisfies ALL of the IFBB judging criteria better than his contemporaries , you still can't grasp how contests are judged to this day

newsflash: man landed on the moon. Any other old news you want to keep reminding us of? It's like me saying "you're the same guy who thinks 2+2=5." I may have confused balance and proportion 3 yrs ago but what does that have to do with this discussion?

What's this have to do with this discussion? YOU didn't and still DO NOT know how contests work , you just verified this again , you can't say who would beat whom because you dont' even know the basics

Ronnie at a heavier weight than Dorian has WORSE balance & proportion , WORSE density & dryness , and he's not as good as a poser than Dorian , the extra weight is NOT pure muscle and it would serve no purpose