Author Topic: Stinking Filthy "LIB"  (Read 25633 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #100 on: July 29, 2010, 08:34:43 AM »
who would I compare him too and based on what criteria?

There were no Republicans or Democrats in Washingtons time.

There was no conservative angst against "big government" either

There clearly were people who considered themselves liberal based on the definition of the time (and not the "classical" political definition which didn't even exist at the time of Washingtons comments.)

The foundations of this country are based on liberal ideas of the time



There was no conservative angst against "big government" either


Ha ha ha.  You are unbelievable.   

No angst over Big Govt?   
________________________ ________________________ __________

BILL OF RIGHTS

First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. [7]

Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

tonymctones

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #101 on: July 29, 2010, 08:38:16 AM »
who would I compare him too and based on what criteria?

There were no Republicans or Democrats in Washingtons time.

There was no conservative angst against "big government" either

There clearly were people who considered themselves liberal based on the definition of the time (and not the "classical" political definition which didn't even exist at the time of Washingtons comments.)

The foundations of this country are based on liberal ideas of the time
LOL hahahah are you fuking serious?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #102 on: July 29, 2010, 08:42:12 AM »
Surely you can find one example Straw.  No? 

   

Straw Man

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #103 on: July 29, 2010, 03:57:59 PM »
There was no conservative angst against "big government" either


Ha ha ha.  You are unbelievable.   

No angst over Big Govt?   


no there was not

there was no "big government" back then nor where there conservatives and liberals

there are British colonies pissed off about taxation without representation

no one was bitching about "big govermnent" in any sense like you mean it today because it did not exist

tonymctones

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #104 on: July 29, 2010, 06:01:51 PM »
no there was not

there was no "big government" back then nor where there conservatives and liberals

there are British colonies pissed off about taxation without representation

no one was bitching about "big govermnent" in any sense like you mean it today because it did not exist
you see what I mean oz?

lol straw look up washington and big government read that farewell speech youve been touting as your reasoning to think he was a lib. He warns about "big government"....LOL what do you think the monarchy in england represented? BIG GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

stressing personal liberties and freedoms isnt worrying about big government? LMAO

War-Horse

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #105 on: July 29, 2010, 06:34:06 PM »
you said you cant really define a modern day liberal but you think washington would be considered one...



Good gawd.  You cant box in a definition like that anymore than you can describe a conservative.    Every single person may agree with some of the points of a party but disagree with others.   You guys are mainly arguing that of a "social liberal" vs "classic liberal"  And both parties fall VERY short of what they are supposed to stand for.

BTW.  Straw has owned all of you quite well. Its like your all racing in 3rd gear and he hit 6th and is gone beyond your apprehension.

tonymctones

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #106 on: July 29, 2010, 06:36:02 PM »


Good gawd.  You cant box in a definition like that anymore than you can describe a conservative.    Every single person may agree with some of the points of a party but disagree with others.   You guys are mainly arguing that of a "social liberal" vs "classic liberal"  And both parties fall VERY short of what they are supposed to stand for.

BTW.  Straw has owned all of you quite well. Its like your all racing in 3rd gear and he hit 6th and is gone beyond your apprehension.
LOL you say you cant define the term liberal but then you say straw has owned us even though he says he thinks washington would be a liberal today even though you cant define the term...and you think we got owned...

go to bed little boy, grown ups are talking...

War-Horse

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #107 on: July 29, 2010, 06:43:39 PM »
LOL you say you cant define the term liberal but then you say straw has owned us even though he says he thinks washington would be a liberal today even though you cant define the term...and you think we got owned...

go to bed little boy, grown ups are talking...


Which liberal are you talking about dumbass?   must be dark in your head.

tonymctones

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #108 on: July 29, 2010, 06:48:51 PM »

Which liberal are you talking about dumbass?   must be dark in your head.
follow the logic here I know it would be to much to ask you to actually read the thread...so ill summarize for you...

straw said that washington would be considered a liberal by todays standards.

we asked straw to define a liberal and he stated that he couldnt really define the term.

yet he still feels that washington would be considered a liberal by todays standard even though he cant say what a liberal is by todays standards...

does that sound right to you?

War-Horse

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #109 on: July 29, 2010, 06:56:08 PM »
No, straw thought it was intersting that the classic definition of liberal was similiar to what conservative values are supposed to be.  Yet neo-cons, repubs have destroyed the economy thru bubbles, dergulation and govt growth.  They are opposite of what they should be.  Tht is why they had faith in the tea party for awhile, but putting palin as spokesperson turned most away from it and its splintering to find new ground.

The 2 party system is going away fast, i feel.

So, there are MANY kinds and degrees of liberals and MANY kinds of splintered groups of conservatives.

tonymctones

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #110 on: July 29, 2010, 07:01:50 PM »
No, straw thought it was intersting that the classic definition of liberal was similiar to what conservative values are supposed to be.  Yet neo-cons, repubs have destroyed the economy thru bubbles, dergulation and govt growth.  They are opposite of what they should be.  Tht is why they had faith in the tea party for awhile, but putting palin as spokesperson turned most away from it and its splintering to find new ground.

The 2 party system is going away fast, i feel.

So, there are MANY kinds and degrees of liberals and MANY kinds of splintered groups of conservatives.
LMFAO no apparently you need to go back and read....he has said point blank that he cant define todays liberal and has said point blank that he thinks washington would be considered a liberal today...

SECONDLY your post shows you know little to nothing about the financial problems that lead to the economy...first off it started under clinton not bush, second there was plenty of regulation that was in place that could have prevented the fall but ppl being asleep at the wheel, not realizing how seperate actions could impact our economy was the problem...there was plenty of regulation in place that could have prevented this...


War-Horse

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #111 on: July 29, 2010, 07:11:11 PM »
Am i talking to wallpaper??????????????????   For the 1,000000000 time ive listed why you cant define a liberal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tonymctones

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #112 on: July 29, 2010, 07:13:24 PM »
Am i talking to wallpaper??????????????????   For the 1,000000000 time ive listed why you cant define a liberal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok thats fine but the problem is that if you cant define it, you cant say something is it...

you do follow that logic right?

if i cant tell you what term A is then logically you cannot say that object B is a representative of term A...

LOL what part of that do you not understand?

War-Horse

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #113 on: July 29, 2010, 07:41:42 PM »
Line up 3000 libs and ask them to define a lib.  Youll get a foundation of core interests and a host of differences.

Line up 3000 conservatives and ask them to define conservative. Youll get a foundation of core interests and a host of differences.

Therefore evryone has a point A and knows as such, that B exists.



Well, my chicken is done boiling so im off to hearty meal......some of us are BBrs on this board you know.... ;D

tonymctones

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #114 on: July 29, 2010, 07:47:06 PM »
Line up 3000 libs and ask them to define a lib.  Youll get a foundation of core interests and a host of differences.

Line up 3000 conservatives and ask them to define conservative. Youll get a foundation of core interests and a host of differences.

Therefore evryone has a point A and knows as such, that B exists.

Well, my chicken is done boiling so im off to hearty meal......some of us are BBrs on this board you know.... ;D
LOL you made about as much sense as blaming only bush and the neocons for the financial melt down...

if you cant even define a term you cannot say that something is representative of that term...basic logic there bro...

and you lie nobody on getbig lifts weights  >:(

Soul Crusher

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #115 on: July 30, 2010, 05:24:30 AM »
Straw & Warhorse are beyond laughable in this thread.

Yeah, the founders resemble modern day liberals.   ha ha ha.  No wonder we have Obama with utter stupidity like Straw and War horse have demonstrated in this thread.  

________________________ ________________________ ______

Words from our Founding Fathers
Power of the Government



"The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite." -- Thomas Jefferson


 
"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." --Thomas Jefferson


 
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." --Thomas Jefferson


 
"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison


 
"We must confine ourselves to the powers described in the Constitution, and the moment we pass it, we take an arbitrary stride towards a despotic Government." -- James Jackson


 
"All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree." -- James Madison
 


"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute." -- Thomas Paine


 
"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Ben Franklin

 
"The moment the idea is admitted into society, that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence." -- John Adams

 
"It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood. . ." -- James Madison
 


What these men are saying is that the government derives its power from the people, not the other way around.  People are born with rights granted from God, not government.  There is also an obvious fear that powerful men will only want more power.  How prophetic.
 

Second Amendment Rights



"The great object is, that every man be armed ... Every one who is able may have a gun." -- Patrick Henry

 
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton

 
" ... to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason

 
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." -- Thomas Jefferson

 
"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson

 
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington


"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American." -- Tench Coxe, of Pennsylvania, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
 

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." --Professor Alexander Tytler over 200 years ago  


 
"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans." -- President Bill Clinton

 

"The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people" -- President Bill Clinton
 

"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees." -- President Bill Clinton
 

"You know the one thing that's wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say." -- President Bill Clinton

 
"Anyone who is not a liberal in his youth has no heart. Anyone who remains so as he matures has no brain!" -- Sir Winston Churchill
 

"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." -- Hillary Clinton
 

"Many of you are well enough off that . . . the tax cuts may have helped you. We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." -- Hillary Clinton
 

Deriding America as an "on your own" society, "I prefer a 'we're all in it together' society. . .I believe our government can once again work for all Americans. It can promote the great American tradition of opportunity for all and special privileges for none." -- Presidential Candidate Hillary Clinton

  
"We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand."  -- A Japanese Admiral 15 years after VJ day on why Japan didn't invade the US mainland after Pearl Harbor.
 
  
"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA. Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State." -- Heinrich Himmler 1936
 

tonymctones

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #116 on: July 30, 2010, 06:41:13 AM »
Straw & Warhorse are beyond laughable in this thread.

Yeah, the founders resemble modern day liberals.   ha ha ha.  No wonder we have Obama with utter stupidity like Straw and War horse have demonstrated in this thread.  

________________________ ________________________ ______

Words from our Founding Fathers
Power of the Government

 
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington
sure sounds like he was worried about big government to me...what about you straw?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #117 on: July 30, 2010, 06:49:26 AM »
Sounds like Obama, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Waxman, Pelosi, Frank, Dodd, et al right Straw?

Tell me when you are ready to cry uncle. 

________________________ ________________________ ______

A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.
Thomas Jefferson


A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.

Thomas Jefferson

A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent
for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.


Thomas Jefferson


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

Thomas Jefferson

Straw Man

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #118 on: July 31, 2010, 08:38:40 AM »
sure sounds like he was worried about big government to me...what about you straw?

I don't know where you went to school but I don't recall being taught the the reason for the America Revolution was because the colonies were upset about the size of the British Monarchy.   I don't recall any lessons about how they were upset about the national debt the king was racking up or the budget deficit or the fact that the king forced them to have social security, medicare, or even more mundane things like that free education that the king forced them to have.  

My recollection is that they were pissed about being taxed and getting nothing in return and getting no say in their own goverment

sorry I don't see any correlation with the founding of this country and the modern day right wing conservative delusions about "big government"

Soul Crusher

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #119 on: July 31, 2010, 12:06:21 PM »
Lets go to the founding documents Straw.  Sounds like a modern day lib right?   ::)  ::)

________________________ ______________________-

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America



When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

— John Hancock

New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts:
John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

Connecticut:
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

New York:
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

New Jersey:
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Delaware:
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

Maryland:
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia:
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

North Carolina:
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

Georgia:
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

Straw Man

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #120 on: July 31, 2010, 12:41:11 PM »
Lets go to the founding documents Straw.  Sounds like a modern day lib right?   ::)  ::)

the current pejorative definition of Lib is a right wing creation

there is no Lib party and there no Lib platform that wants big governement or any of the other stuff you attribute to Libs in your right wing fear and paranoia

btw - where is that list of grievances is anything about big government or any of the other stuff that current day right wingers have made up and falsely attributed to "LIBS"?


Soul Crusher

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #121 on: July 31, 2010, 12:55:09 PM »
the current pejorative definition of Lib is a right wing creation

there is no Lib party and there no Lib platform that wants big governement or any of the other stuff you attribute to Libs in your right wing fear and paranoia

btw - where is that list of grievances is anything about big government or any of the other stuff that current day right wingers have made up and falsely attributed to "LIBS"?



You deluded libs do it all to youself.  Anyone, with a brain of course, who lives in IL, CA, NY, MI, or any other state run by far left communists, knows that they are the furthest thing than was ever envisioned with the founding of this nation.   

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #122 on: July 31, 2010, 01:17:40 PM »
Sounds like a real lib Straw no?

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #123 on: July 31, 2010, 01:19:26 PM »
You deluded libs do it all to youself.  Anyone, with a brain of course, who lives in IL, CA, NY, MI, or any other state run by far left communists, knows that they are the furthest thing than was ever envisioned with the founding of this nation.   

do you have any clue have ridiculous you sound when you say that a state is run by far left communists?

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Re: Stinking Filthy "LIB"
« Reply #124 on: July 31, 2010, 03:53:16 PM »


Good gawd.  You cant box in a definition like that anymore than you can describe a conservative.    Every single person may agree with some of the points of a party but disagree with others.   You guys are mainly arguing that of a "social liberal" vs "classic liberal"  And both parties fall VERY short of what they are supposed to stand for.

BTW.  Straw has owned all of you quite well. Its like your all racing in 3rd gear and he hit 6th and is gone beyond your apprehension.

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