Stinking Filthy "LIB"

[tonymctones]

Jefferson?

the quote that started this thread is from Washington

Washington mused that as time went on that Mankind would become more liberal.

Thnk about the world in the late 1700 and think about it today

Has it gotten more liberal?

LOL liberal back then meant something differene than it did today brain child....WE COVERED THAT!!!!!!!!!!

[Straw Man]

LOL liberal back then meant something differene than it did today brain child....WE COVERED THAT!!!!!!!!!!

another ride on the merri-go-round for you?

I think the word liberal has generally the same meaning today (not the right wing framed version) as it did in Washingtons time.
We know he was totally against political parties so he obviously wouldn't be Dem or Repub (or Whig or Bull Moose, or any other party created after his time).   

We also know that he help create the most liberal government and country on the planet at that time.   He helped create a democracy run by the people, based on individual liberty and freedom from church and monarchies.

here is a definition of the word from the Oxford English Dictionary:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1263252?rskey=KZBrKH&result=1#m_en_us1263252

adjective
1 open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values:
they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people
 favorable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms:
liberal citizenship laws
 (in a political context) favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform:
a liberal democratic state
 (Liberal)of or characteristic of Liberals or a Liberal Party(Liberal)(in the UK) of or relating to the Liberal Democrat Party:
the Liberal leader
 Theologyregarding many traditional beliefs as dispensable, invalidated by modern thought, or liable to change2 [attributive] (of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training3 (especially of an interpretation of a law) broadly construed or understood; not strictly literal or exact:
they could have given the 1968 Act a more liberal interpretation
 4 given , used , or occurring in generous amounts:
liberal amounts of wine had been consumed
 (of a person) giving generously:
Sam was too liberal with the wine

Origin:
Middle English: via Old French from Latin liberalis, from liber 'free (man)'. The original sense was 'suitable for a free man', hence 'suitable for a gentleman' (one not tied to a trade), surviving in liberal arts. Another early sense 'generous'  (liberal (sense 4 of the adjective) ) gave rise to an obsolete meaning 'free from restraint', leading to  liberal (sense 1 of the adjective) (late 18th century)

[tonymctones]

another ride on the merri-go-round for you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism#Classical_and_modern

"From the 17th century until the 19th century, liberals—from Adam Smith to John Stuart Mill—conceptualized liberty as the absence of interference from government and from other individuals"

sure sounds like a conservative by todays views...hmmmmmmmm I wonder why 

[Straw Man]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism#Classical_and_modern

"From the 17th century until the 19th century, liberals—from Adam Smith to John Stuart Mill—conceptualized liberty as the absence of interference from government and from other individuals"

sure sounds like a conservative by todays views...hmmmmmmmm I wonder why 

simple (like you)

you took one sentence out of context and ignored everything that did not fit your preconceived notion

I don't suppose you actually read that entire Wiki page you posted and didn't just find the one sentence you liked and then rushed here to post it

[tonymctones]

simple (like you)

you took one sentence out of context and ignored everything that did not fit your preconceived notion

I don't suppose you actually read that entire Wiki page you posted and didn't just find the one sentence you liked and then rushed here to post it

LOL read that link and tell me how i took it out of context...

[Soul Crusher]

This thread is beyond laughable. 

[Straw Man]

LOL read that link and tell me how i took it out of context...

well why didn't you start at the top and use this paragraph (btw I assume you are aware of the general time in history of the remarks by Washington)

Here are a few selections for you:

In 16th century England, liberal could have positive or negative attributes in referring to someone's generosity or indiscretion.[8] In Much Ado About Nothing, Shakespeare wrote of "a liberal villaine" who "hath...confest his vile encounters".[9] With the rise of the Enlightenment, the word acquired decisively more positive undertones, being defined as "free from narrow prejudice" in 1781 and "free from bigotry" in 1823.[10] In 1815, the first use of the word liberalism appeared in English.[11] By the middle of the 19th century, liberal started to be used as a politicized term for parties and movements all over the world.


Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment, rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as hereditary status, established religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings.


there are plenty of other salient points in the wiki link too but then you're the one who posted it so I assume you're read through it

[Soul Crusher]

Other than the fact that none of those things have anything to do with modern liberals, as we know the term, whats' your point?  

[tonymctones]

well why didn't you start at the top and use this paragraph (btw I assume you are aware of the general time in history of the remarks by Washington)

Here are a few selections for you:

In 16th century England, liberal could have positive or negative attributes in referring to someone's generosity or indiscretion.[8] In Much Ado About Nothing, Shakespeare wrote of "a liberal villaine" who "hath...confest his vile encounters".[9] With the rise of the Enlightenment, the word acquired decisively more positive undertones, being defined as "free from narrow prejudice" in 1781 and "free from bigotry" in 1823.[10] In 1815, the first use of the word liberalism appeared in English.[11] By the middle of the 19th century, liberal started to be used as a politicized term for parties and movements all over the world.


Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment, rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as hereditary status, established religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings.


there are plenty of other salient points in the wiki link too but then you're the one who posted it so I assume you're read through it

lol you just proved my point...

tell me how I misrepresented the point

[Soul Crusher]

Straw - you now claim that you only quoted Washington and not the other founders.  But if GW did not feel they all shared his vision of the nation, that being limited govt, why would he have agreed to lead the continental army and take the helm of the Declaration of Independence as written by TJ?   

[Dos Equis]

Strawman just suffers from a common liberal malady - an inability to simply say, "yeah, maybe I was wrong on this one".  As if the admission itself would be of such great harm that its utterance must be forever barred.

Oh it's a lot simpler than that.  lol . . . .

[George Whorewell]

Skip- In a thread about a month ago where I was berating KC, I said the exact same thing. I really should have that post published. I don't know if it applies to all liberals, or just the ones who post here.

[Dos Equis]

Skip- In a thread about a month ago where I was berating KC, I said the exact same thing. I really should have that post published. I don't know if it applies to all liberals, or just the ones who post here.

Not all.  Not sure if it's an ideological thing, but IMO the inability to acknowledge mistakes shows a lack of intelligence (among other things).

[Skip8282]

Skip- In a thread about a month ago where I was berating KC, I said the exact same thing. I really should have that post published. I don't know if it applies to all liberals, or just the ones who post here.

Funny you should mention that.  I actually had KC tell me that "i'm" is correct, not "I'm".  I had to just let that one go.  How do you argue with that level of ignorance?

Reminds me of a time I was at a small town meeting (going back about 15yrs now).  A woman actually stood up and said, "I don't know  where you city folk get milk from, but around here we get it from cows."  Can you really have a discussion with that kind of mentality?

[George Whorewell]

LMAOOOOOO

Sounds like that fat black lady from the view that thought Jesus was riding Raptors and fighting off T-Rex's.

[Soul Crusher]

I guess Straws' silence is a concesssion of defeat. 

[Soul Crusher]

bump

[Straw Man]

bump

Good gawd.  You cant box in a definition like that anymore than you can describe a conservative.    Every single person may agree with some of the points of a party but disagree with others.   You guys are mainly arguing that of a "social liberal" vs "classic liberal"  And both parties fall VERY short of what they are supposed to stand for.

BTW.  Straw has owned all of you quite well. Its like your all racing in 3rd gear and he hit 6th and is gone beyond your apprehension.

[Soul Crusher]

George Washington's Farewell Address, 1796

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."


"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." - George Washington

[George Whorewell]

900 posts of 50 different people abusing Straw for a thread that blew up in his face, 899 posts of Straw defending himself to no avail, 1 post of someone besides Straw defending his position.

Straw quotes the one post that didn't point out his stupidity and he's off to the races doing a special olympics victory lap for shutting down all of his "critics".  

 

[Soul Crusher]

1789 Thanksgiving Proclamation

"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:

     "Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted' for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us." - George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation, October 3, 1789


________________________ _____

Straw - you can concede defeat at any time. 

[Soul Crusher]

1789 Inaugural Address

On April 30, 1789, George Washington delivered his famous Inaugural Address to both Houses of Congress. He had just taken the oath of office on the balcony of Federal Hall in New York City, with his hand upon a Bible opened to Deuteronomy, Chapter 28:

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations and whose providential aides can supply every human defect; that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes; and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow citizens at large, less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. And in the important revolution just accomplished, in the system of their United government, the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted, can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established, without some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage ... We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained; and since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered as deeply, perhaps finally, staked on the experiment...

________________________ _________

Souneds just like obama, reid, pelosi, and the other far left commies.   

[Straw Man]

.

[Straw Man]

900 posts of 50 different people abusing Straw for a thread that blew up in his face, 899 posts of Straw defending himself to no avail, 1 post of someone besides Straw defending his position.

Straw quotes the one post that didn't point out his stupidity and he's off to the races doing a special olympics victory lap for shutting down all of his "critics".  

Jonathan Swift

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

[Soul Crusher]

Way to address my last three posts moron.