Stinking Filthy "LIB"

[Straw Man]

How is life a right from God? simply because we have a right to exist founded on the very fact that we were created...all men have the right to exist, as well as in the same manner and function...this doesn't mean all men end up equal but they are given the equal right to life.

Liberty, we are free to pursue life in the manner we best see fit, based on the right of life.

Pursuit of happiness, within our liberty, (Originally pursuit of happiness read Pursuit of Property) meaning we had the right to own property, not simply land but all things gained by our liberty were rightfully ours and belonged to no one else.

These three rights are given to all men so as long as in whatever they do does not infringe upon these three rights of another individual.

What God our we talking about? The Judeo/Christian God, who else, that's what our founders based this off of...you can also look to John Locke, there are a lot of similarities in this.

Well many of the founders were Deist and most did not believe in trinity, the divinity of jesus, miracles, etc..  but besides that point at the time the Declaration was written there were human beings in this country who did not have their "god given" right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.   Why didn't God enforce their rights?
 
I don't believe any rights that we currently enjoy come from any "god"

All the rights we have come from man and man's creation ....government and legal system

[Soul Crusher]

Well many of the founders were Deist and most did not believe in trinity, the divinity of jesus, miracles, etc..  but besides that point at the time the Declaration was written there were human beings in this country who did not have their "god given" right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.   Why didn't God enforce their rights?
 
I don't believe any rights that we currently enjoy come from any "god"

All the rights we have come from man and man's creation ....government and legal system

So then you agree I have the right through the electoral process to take away your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? 

[Kazan]

[Fury]

That's epic.

[Straw Man]

So then you agree I have the right through the electoral process to take away your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? 

do we vote on "rights" ?

is that what you learned in law school?

[Soul Crusher]

do we vote on "rights" ?

is that what you learned in law school?

No, I am trying to get at your belief system and where you believe our rights derive from.   

[Straw Man]

what does communism have to do with the topic at hand?

btw - kind of ironic that the biggest communist country on the planet basically owns our country (we're dependent upon them buying our debt )

[Straw Man]

No, I am trying to get at your belief system and where you believe our rights derive from.   

the only rights that you and I enjoy come from our form of goverment

are you really confused on that?

[Soul Crusher]

the only rights that you and I enjoy come from our form of goverment

are you really confused on that?

And guuess where our Govt is from?  The Const.  And what is the basis for the Const?  The Delcaration. 

[Straw Man]

And guuess where our Govt is from?  The Const.  And what is the basis for the Const?  The Delcaration. 

the men who created it?

the basis of the constitution and declaration?

what did you learn in law school about those?

[kcballer]

I can not believe there is even an argument that God created the rights of this country.  What foolish nonsense.  God created the rights of this country no more than he created the rights, or lack of, for Communist Russia.  The rights we enjoy are derived from men.  Those men may have believed in God or they may have said they did at least.  But to believe that the constitution and declaration are somehow written by God or from the hands of God is as foolish as saying the Nazi extermination camps were created by God or 9/11 was God's will. 

[Dos Equis]

LOL

[George Whorewell]

I can not believe there is even an argument that God created the rights of this country.  What foolish nonsense.  God created the rights of this country no more than he created the rights, or lack of, for Communist Russia.  The rights we enjoy are derived from men.  Those men may have believed in God or they may have said they did at least.  But to believe that the constitution and declaration are somehow written by God or from the hands of God is as foolish as saying the Nazi extermination camps were created by God or 9/11 was God's will. 

^ Proof that KC's parents are siblings.

Obviously you're too stupid to understand the argument being waged here. Nobody claims that God wrote the constitution or declaration of independence you douchebag. The argument is that some rights are fundamental to all human beings and are mandated by a higher power than a legion of politicians scribbling legislation down on a piece of paper. Freedom of speech, marriage, freedom of religion, etc. etc.  are all fundamental rights that the framers felt were so important to the public, that God, rather than the framers themselves was the final authority on such matters. Nobody is claiming that God appeared to Thomas Jefferson and told him and his pals to write another chapter of the Bible.

[Straw Man]

^ Proof that KC's parents are siblings.

Obviously you're too stupid to understand the argument being waged here. Nobody claims that God wrote the constitution or declaration of independence you douchebag. The argument is that some rights are fundamental to all human beings and are mandated by a higher power than a legion of politicians scribbling legislation down on a piece of paper. Freedom of speech, marriage, freedom of religion, etc. etc.  are all fundamental rights that the framers felt were so important to the public, that God, rather than the framers themselves was the final authority on such matters. Nobody is claiming that God appeared to Thomas Jefferson and told him and his pals to write another chapter of the Bible.

when did the framers talk about freedom of marriage

if freedom of speech and religion are god given rights then why did we even need to write a Constitution or Bill of Rights in the first place

I'm sure black men in the 1700's happily enjoyed their god given rights of life, liberly and the pursuit of happines

[Kazan]

when did the framers talk about freedom of marriage

if freedom of speech and religion are god given rights then why did we even need to write a Constitution or Bill of Rights in the first place

I'm sure black men in the 1700's happily enjoyed their god given rights of life, liberly and the pursuit of happines

Why did we need a constitution or bill of rights, because the framers understood the dangers of an all powerful central government.

And I suppose you only believe that white people were slave owners as well?

[MuscleMcMannus]

i saw on the history Channel that washington was a BRUTAL killer when it came to indians.

As kids, we always heard about cherry trees and wooden teeth... not that he encouraged some serious carnage.

So was Andrew Jackson.  His Indian policies of that era were pretty cruel.  However, it doesn't change the vision these men had.  Society progresses.  I'm not sure what would have happened to Native Americans if left to their own devices.  I think it was pretty shitty that they ended up on reservations with some of the worst land North America had to offer.  Native Americans have been more marginalized than any black has ever been in America.  When was the last time you ever saw a multimillion dollar indian rapper?  Indian sports star?  Indian celebrity?  Save for a few here and there they don't exist.  Yet what do we here?  The constant bullshit spewing out of black people about how they were treated so piss poorly by white people and everyone around them.....boo hoo................black s should have gotten over their slavery bullshit back in the 1960s but they still can't.  Hence why they are still suffering an identity crisis to this day.  At least Native Americans have progressed enough to speak English properly. 

[Straw Man]

Why did we need a constitution or bill of rights, because the framers understood the dangers of an all powerful central government.

And I suppose you only believe that white people were slave owners as well?

all races have a long history of enslaving each other all over the planet but I'm not aware of any black slave owners in colonial America

you're suggesting the the founders our our powerful central goverment (who wanted the federal goverment to have more power than the states) somehow were motivated to create said government because of the dangers of the powerful central governemet that they were in the process of creating.  In fact, our first president expanded the government and raised taxes during his entire time in office

[Kazan]

all races have a long history of enslaving each other all over the planet but I'm not aware of any black slave owners in colonial America

you're suggesting the the founders our our powerful central goverment (who wanted the federal goverment to have more power than the states) somehow were motivated to create said government because of the dangers of the powerful central governemet that they were in the process of creating.  In fact, our first president expanded the government and raised taxes during his entire time in office

I don't know where you get your information, the constitution is specifically designed to limit the power of the federal government, and give the power to the states/people.

How did GW expand government? And as far as taxation, they actually used the money to pay off debt not create social programs.

[George Whorewell]

when did the framers talk about freedom of marriage

if freedom of speech and religion are god given rights then why did we even need to write a Constitution or Bill of Rights in the first place

I'm sure black men in the 1700's happily enjoyed their god given rights of life, liberly and the pursuit of happines

It's because of responses like this that I don't take you seriously and make fun of you all of the time. It's a waste of my intellect to respond to this drivel. Do you have anything remotely interesting, well reasoned, or articulate to add to this discussion besides,why did we even need to write a Constitution or Bill of Rights in the first place?

What are you like 12 years old?
 

[Straw Man]

It's because of responses like this that I don't take you seriously and make fun of you all of the time. It's a waste of my intellect to respond to this drivel. Do you have anything remotely interesting, well reasoned, or articulate to add to this discussion besides,why did we even need to write a Constitution or Bill of Rights in the first place?

What are you like 12 years old?
 

the statement was in response to your claim that somehow these rights are, as you wrote:   "mandated by a higher power than a legion of politicians scribbling legislation down on a piece of paper"

If that were actually true then there would be no need to write them down, i.e. no need to create an Constitution or Bill of Rights.   

BTW - where in the Constitution do the framers mention God or, as you wrote:

 "Freedom of speech, marriage, freedom of religion, etc. etc.  are all fundamental rights that the framers felt were so important to the public, that God, rather than the framers themselves was the final authority on such matters"

Where do you get the idea that God is the final authority on freedom of speech, religion or marriage

For that matter when did the framers ever even talk about marriage?

[MuscleMcMannus]

Most of the prominent founding fathers of the US were deists, agnostics or aetheists who believed in a secular government and hailed from the enlightenment train of thought i.e. science, logic, and reason.  Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc. even made fun of Christianity and religion many times throughout their lives.  The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were not based on Judeo Christian values at all.  This is a fact that has been twisted throughout history, even by well intentioned people.  Now if you want to argue that American society that grew up around the Constitution and the Bill of Rights etc. was based on Christian values that is true.  90% of early Americans were Christian.  But those beliefs had no bearing on the founding of this country i.e. government, Constitution etc. 

[MuscleMcMannus]

I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the universe, in all its parts, general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to perceive and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of its composition...

...it is impossible I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is in all this design, cause and effect up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regeneration into new and other forms. We see, too evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power to maintain the universe in its course and order...


Thomas Jefferson

[Soul Crusher]

Most of the prominent founding fathers of the US were deists, agnostics or aetheists who believed in a secular government and hailed from the enlightenment train of thought i.e. science, logic, and reason.  Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc. even made fun of Christianity and religion many times throughout their lives.  The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were not based on Judeo Christian values at all.  This is a fact that has been twisted throughout history, even by well intentioned people.  Now if you want to argue that American society that grew up around the Constitution and the Bill of Rights etc. was based on Christian values that is true.  90% of early Americans were Christian.  But those beliefs had no bearing on the founding of this country i.e. government, Constitution etc. 

Did you read anything I posted from Washington himself?

[MuscleMcMannus]

Jesus was an alien and we were genetically engineered makes more sense than some bullshit claim of an all loving god anyways.  So who the fuck really cares nowadays about "god".  It can mean anything to anyone.  Nature is the most important force that guides us.  And the only people who ever embraced nature and truly lived in an egalitarian, just and equitable society for their time were Native Americans.  Yes they treated women bad, scalped people and other bullshit.....but overall......if I had to live in any time during the history of human beings and live in a culture it would have been in a Native American indian tribe before white man stepped foot on North America. 

So who gives a fuck what Washington said.  The world has changed and will forever change when we realize we are not the only intelligent life form in the universe. 

[tonymctones]

I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the universe, in all its parts, general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to perceive and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of its composition...

...it is impossible I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is in all this design, cause and effect up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regeneration into new and other forms. We see, too evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power to maintain the universe in its course and order...



Thomas Jefferson

LOL did you read this mcmannus?

this is an argument for God not against him...