WTF? Pakistan Jetliner Crashes Into Mountain But Does Not Vaporize.

[Mons Venus]

A bit off topic, but are you the guy who claims to have been a pilot on here? I can't remember if thats you or someone else.

No...I'm not a pilot.

[tonymctones]

No Tony, sorry but you are grasping at straws. The blurred object is simply not large enough to be an American Airliner. This coupled with the fact that we KNOW there was no skidmark damage on the grass as the "plane" supposedly slammed into the Pentagon ground level makes it all but impossible to be an American Airliner as stated in the official explanation. That is a fact my friend.

The plane wreckage you speak of are shown in later photos after the walls have collapsed. However in the immediate aftermath the photographs do not show plane parts, bodyparts etc. And to be honest with you those plane parts that the personell are carrying are shiny wrinkled objects devoid of burn marks. They look artificially placed. I still maintain they were placed on the site after the impact by people.

Yes those were tents on the site. Who knows what they used them for. Perhaps various things.







Anyway the main issue for me is not the tents or debris but:

1. Small impact hole in Pentagon Wall.
2. No damage to lawn right after impact.
3. Blurred object in video too small to match American Airliner.

did you watch the pop mechanics video?

it explains botht the small hole and no skid marks...

[tonymctones]

 
I'll make it easy for you to put the SIMPLE puzzle together tonymctones.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LMAO first off I know just off the top of my head a number of these videos have been debunked...

youre overlooking the eye witness testimony that says otherwise...the evidence that says otherwise...

you have no evidence as in PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to dispute a plane hit the pentagon...there is physical evidence to say one did and eye witness testimony...

[Fury]

No...I'm not a pilot.

Why did you post a picture of a pilot standing next to his fighter jet with his face blacked out and claimed that it was you then? 

[Mons Venus]

Why did you post a picture of a pilot standing next to his fighter jet with his face blacked out and claimed that it was you then? 

I'm not a pilot. I took this picture before riding shotgun with a buddy @ MacDill AFB.



   

[Fury]

I'm not a pilot. I took this picture before riding shotgun with a buddy @ MacDill AFB.



   

Bahaha. You're such a lying weasel. Can't even keep your stories straight, gimmick.

[OzmO]

LMAO first off I know just off the top of my head a number of these videos have been debunked...

youre overlooking the eye witness testimony that says otherwise...the evidence that says otherwise...

you have no evidence as in PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to dispute a plane hit the pentagon...there is physical evidence to say one did and eye witness testimony...

Amazing huh?

[MuscleMcMannus]

There are so many other variables that contribute to a result like that, including, speed, amount of fuel, angle of impact etc.

That for most CT'ers is too advanced for simple logic like, "this plane didn't disintegrate therefore the WTC's ones are fake."

See that's your entire problem.  You are so obsessed with debunking everything you can't think outside the box.  CTers......lol......yeah there is no such thing as a conspiracy.  Your government loves you.  They would never use 9/11 to increase government bureaucracy a hundred fold.  They would never use 9/11 as an excuse to go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan for oil and corporate profits.  They would never use 9/11 to take away your freedoms and spy on law abiding Americans.  LOL There is no such thing as MkUltra.  Operation Northwoods never happend.  Jeb Bush and George Bush had nothing to do with the savings and loan scandals of the 80s.  Reagan was the greatest President that ever lived.  The Franklin Scandal never happened.  Iran Contra was a big misunderstanding.   

[Fury]

Ahh, the old tried and true "I can't prove you wrong but I'll call you a sheep and act like that means my CT is correct" tactic. How idiotic and lame.

[tarzan]

Ahh, the old tried and true "I can't prove you wrong but I'll call you a sheep and act like that means my CT is correct" tactic. How idiotic and lame.

Again, debunk this. I have asked so many times in this thread and nobody can debunk it. If it is easy to debunk you don't need to post some video or link. In your own words using logic since you are so level headed please debunk this:

1. Impact hole too small at Pentagon.
2. No damage to lawn right after impact. Why?
3. Blurred object in video too small to be American Airliner.

[OzmO]

Piled with flawed logic and assumptions.

See that's your entire problem.  You are so obsessed with debunking everything you can't think outside the box.  

Assumption.  It not about thinking outside the box, its about looking in and out of the box for what it is.  Just the facts, and the facts don't support most CT's.  In this world there are plenty of hidden agendas, CT's and such, but this instance, the 9/11 CT is just as baseless as the moon landing one.

CTers......lol......yeah there is no such thing as a conspiracy.  Your government loves you.

Assumption.  You are assuming I think there's no such thing as a conspiracy.  For me to do that would make me as stupid as a CT'er who thinks a missile hit the pentagon from baseless evidence and logic compared to the mountains of evidence that says a jet plane hit it.

They would never use 9/11 to increase government bureaucracy a hundred fold.  They would never use 9/11 as an excuse to go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan for oil and corporate profits.  They would never use 9/11 to take away your freedoms and spy on law abiding Americans.  

Assumption & Post Hoc Ergo Prompter Hoc (I'll let you look that up)

LOL There is no such thing as MkUltra.  Operation Northwoods never happend.  Jeb Bush and George Bush had nothing to do with the savings and loan scandals of the 80s.  Reagan was the greatest President that ever lived.  The Franklin Scandal never happened.  Iran Contra was a big misunderstanding.  

Assumption.  Never really looked deeply into any of these so I cannot definitively say one way or the other, however, you have no problem assuming i don't and do believe in such things (classic CT'er ad hoc, hom).  However, i have done mounds of research into 9/11 mainly because of many posters on GB who have opened my mind to it.  I was like many at first and used the many assertions and anomilies to paint a the picture of a conspiracy but when the facts were fully researched, wieghed and examined, the main elements of 9/11 CT'ers feel flat and couldn't stand up to a wet noodle.

[Eyeball Chambers]

We really shouldn't waste our time on this.

Many of the smartest people in the world believe nothing out of the ordinary occurred on 9/11, many of the smartest people in the world believe something did happen.

Whatever you believe, you're probably not going to change your opinion now unless you want to.

http://stj911.org/members/index.html

[OzmO]

Again, debunk this. I have asked so many times in this thread and nobody can debunk it. If it is easy to debunk you don't need to post some video or link. In your own words using logic since you are so level headed please debunk this:

1. Impact hole too small at Pentagon.

Based on what?  Why is the hole too small?  Why do you think it should bigger?

2. No damage to lawn right after impact. Why?

Why do you think there should be?  It is because you found other pictures of the same plane that hit the pentagon at the speed and angle and in the same place that produce a burned lawn?  Or is it because you found pictures of different planes that hit different grassy areas at different speeds, weight and fuel loads?

3. Blurred object in video too small to be American Airliner.

From a 420 x 320 pixelly web cam that recorded the crash from a great distance?

[OzmO]

We really shouldn't waste our time on this.

Many of the smartest people in the world believe nothing out of the ordinary occurred on 9/11, many of the smartest people in the world believe something did happen.

Whatever you believe, you're probably not going to change your opinion now unless you want to.

http://stj911.org/members/index.html

I agree, but sometimes it is fascinating to see how people construct their conclusions.

I predict, 30 years from now the 9/11 CT movement will be larger and stronger.  A larger percentage of people will believe there was a conspiracy.

[Fury]

"Part of the lawn was in-tact so I know, with 100% certainty, that it was a missile."  

[MuscleMcMannus]

, i have done mounds of research into 9/11 mainly because of many posters on GB who have opened my mind to it.  I was like many at first and used the many assertions and anomilies to paint a the picture of a conspiracy but when the facts were fully researched, wieghed and examined, the main elements of 9/11 CT'ers feel flat and couldn't stand up to a wet noodle.

Have you published any papers on the subject?  Have you written any books on the subject?  Your use of the tired old label "CTer" shows your mindest and proclivities.  It's easy to jump on the interent and do "research".  You can find just about any information on a variety of subjects to prove or disprove your point.  One simple question for you......is it so hard to wrap your mind around the possibility that even if 9/11 happened exactly how you think it happened that the US government or entities within the US government allowed it to happen or even worse were complicit in it?  I mean would that be such a huge shock to your view of the world?  That's the biggest issue I have with people like you.  You see the world the way you want to see it.  If you knew anything about history and some of the shit I mentioned which people like you chaulk up to "conspiracy theory" you'd realize that US government complicity in the events of 9/11 or at best turning a blind eye with full transparency that it was going to happen and not stopping it.......is a very real possiblity and most likely what happened.  And the events of 9/11 were used as a launch point for a huge increase in government bureaucracy, the Patriot Act,and never ending wars on terrorism.  

[Mons Venus]

Bahaha. You're such a lying weasel. Can't even keep your stories straight, gimmick.

I NEVER said I was a pilot. Please repost where I said I flew planes. 

[OzmO]

Here we go again:

Have you published any papers on the subject?  Have you written any books on the subject?  Your use of the tired old label "CTer" shows your mindest and proclivities.  

Ad Hoc   and assumption  lol  So because i haven't written and published any papers and have not written books on the subject i am not informed on the events of 9/11, the evidence, and the many different arguments for and against a CT?  

I am starting to see why based on how you try to discredit me in this instance, why you are a CT'er.  Makes total sense.

It's easy to jump on the interent and do "research".  You can find just about any information on a variety of subjects to prove or disprove your point.  One simple question for you......is it so hard to wrap your mind around the possibility that even if 9/11 happened exactly how you think it happened that the US government or entities within the US government allowed it to happen or even worse were complicit in it?  

More Assumption.  I've said many times especially on this forum that i do NOT believe the "official 9/11 report" is 100% correct.  that's more than obvious it's not exact.

I mean would that be such a huge shock to your view of the world?  

Here we go more assumption and this "assumption" seems to be the crux of your point.  And now you are using the whole "sheep" card.  lol

That's the biggest issue I have with people like you.  You see the world the way you want to see it.  If you knew anything about history and some of the shit I mentioned which people like you chaulk up to "conspiracy theory" you'd realize that US government complicity in the events of 9/11 or at best turning a blind eye with full transparency that it was going to happen and not stopping it.......is a very real possiblity and most likely what happened.  

The funny part here is that your whole issue with me is based on a false assumption.  Do you feel angry about it?

And the events of 9/11 were used as a launch point for a huge increase in government bureaucracy, the Patriot Act,and never ending wars on terrorism.

So there's no possibility and likelihood that the increase in government bureaucracy and the Patriot Act were made possible because events like 9/11 helped the proponents push the funding/votes through? And that one of these wars is being fought in a limited PC, ROE style, in a country who has never been conquered successfully by a modern army?  (of course, not right?  People like me don't know history)

I will say this, you are a consistent assumer.  You should be proud of that.  Consistency is usually the difference between occasional winners and true champions.  You are well on your way to being a champion assumer.  Props to you.  I mean that.  

[MuscleMcMannus]

And you don't find it the least bit odd there hasn't been a major terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11.  Oh wait.........you'll probably give me the line that it's because of the increase in government bureaucracy and the fact we are fighting the terrorists over there.  Some Mexican can dig a tunnel under our border and funnel millions of dollars worth of drugs yet a sophisticated, well funded terrorist organization hasn't been able to launch ONE......not even ONE terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11.  NO suicide bombings, no angry Muslims with machine guns shooting up school buses and malls..........not one hijacking of gas trucks and driving them into schools and malls.  I can think of a 101 ways a terrorist could easily wreak havoc on US soil yet it has never happened.  The only thing that has happened is that 14 hijackers with box cutters managed to hijack several planes and fly them into the heart of NYC.  You don't even have to study 9/11 in any great detail to see just how idiotic that is.  LMAO! 

And you can't even answer the question.  Just answer the fucking question............Do you find it IMPOSSIBLE for the US government to have been complicit in the events of 9/11.  It's a pretty easy question to answer.  It's either yes or no.  Do you find that the US government could never ever think of being complicit in something like 9/11.  See you can't answer that question because it goes against everything you believe in and stand for.  Let me guess.......you're probably ex military like all the other morons on this forum who toe the official line on all things military and goverment.  LOL........The blind leading the blind. 

[tarzan]

Based on what?  Why is the hole too small?  Why do you think it should bigger?

Because of the size of the 757 and the claimed impact speed (500 mph). The amount of energy released and the ensuing explosion would have created a much larger hole compared to the cross section of the cockpit.


Unbroken windows beside primary hole:

Why do you think there should be?  It is because you found other pictures of the same plane that hit the pentagon at the speed and angle and in the same place that produce a burned lawn?  Or is it because you found pictures of different planes that hit different grassy areas at different speeds, weight and fuel loads?

No, it is because the plane has vertical and horizontal dimension to it with the rolls royce engines below the wings. To fly a 757 five-ten feet above the ground would be impossible without basically crashing into the ground. Therefore during its approach it would have crashed and skidded on the lawn and then slid into the side of the building. The lawn would have been a mess. Do you really think a novice hijack pilot could do something which professional pilots have claimed is impossible to do? You can't have a neat hole on the first level of the Pentagon and not have damage on the lawn. That would not be possible because of the vertical dimension of the 757. The 757 would certainly have dragged the ground.

From a 420 x 320 pixelly web cam that recorded the crash from a great distance?

The bulding is part of the 420x320 pixel video and you can scale the building relative to the object. And the blurred object is not the size a 757 would have been relative to the building.


How large the object that was released was:


How large the object should have been:

[Mons Venus]

^^^ Great post!

[Dos Equis]

Ozmo you should post that CT article again.   

[OzmO]

And you don't find it the least bit odd there hasn't been a major terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11. 

I do.  But probably for a different reason than you think.  

Oh wait.........you'll probably give me the line that it's because of the increase in government bureaucracy and the fact we are fighting the terrorists over there. 

No, actually not.  (assumption)

Some Mexican can dig a tunnel under our border and funnel millions of dollars worth of drugs yet a sophisticated, well funded terrorist organization hasn't been able to launch ONE......not even ONE terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11.  NO suicide bombings, no angry Muslims with machine guns shooting up school buses and malls..........not one hijacking of gas trucks and driving them into schools and malls. 

Very true.  But 1 premise's validity doesn't make another one true.

I can think of a 101 ways a terrorist could easily wreak havoc on US soil yet it has never happened. 

I know one for sure and have posted here before.

The only thing that has happened is that 14 hijackers with box cutters managed to hijack several planes and fly them into the heart of NYC.  You don't even have to study 9/11 in any great detail to see just how idiotic that is.  LMAO!

 

Not really.  Especially when you consider it hadn't ever been attempted.  

 

And you can't even answer the question.  Just answer the fucking question............Do you find it IMPOSSIBLE for the US government to have been complicit in the events of 9/11. 

Calm down.  I just find it kind of to be a stupid question.  Of course its not "impossible".  The issue that should be discussed before you assume any conclusion here is to what degree was America complicit? And it what way?  Was it certain? Was it likely? Possible? or unlikely? or remote?  How does the information and evidence back up each premise or conclusion?
 

It's a pretty easy question to answer.  It's either yes or no.  Do you find that the US government could never ever think of being complicit in something like 9/11. 

i find there are people that may be in the government that feel any end justifies the means, however, I do not think there are that many people in important positions in agencies, facilities and departments that they would be that murderous and diabolical in such numbers that they could decide history at their will.  and when you weigh in the fact that there are likely many many more people of good standing moral and ethical principles in our military.  Or it might be as you suggest, Dr. Evil's minions control the entire world.  

See you can't answer that question because it goes against everything you believe in and stand for. 

Dissappointing.  Another assumption.  But, if you really are interested in finding out my answer, quantify the question for me as i implied earlier and you will get my answer.  

Let me guess.......you're probably ex military like all the other morons on this forum who toe the official line on all things military and goverment.  LOL........The blind leading the blind. 

sigh...........


Well you are a consistent assumer.

I am not ex-military, I do question the government a lot.  I just try and be realistic.

[OzmO]

Because of the size of the 757 and the claimed impact speed (500 mph). The amount of energy released and the ensuing explosion would have created a much larger hole compared to the cross section of the cockpit.

How do you know?  Prove that it would have created a larger hole.

Don't cut and paste some jack ass crack pot vid, prove to me, using your own research, facts, etc.. in simple words that that plane should have with full certainty created a larger hole. 

[OzmO]

Also, Tarzan, are there any frame by frame sequenced pics of those vids? 

I think i see something.