Is "carb cycling" only calories cycling ?

[Stavios]

What's up, this question is for the bros in the knows 

I have "carb cycled" before for my show in 2007, I was doing my diet alone so I didn't really know what I was doing but I got pretty lean.

but isn't this pretty much only calories cycling ?
I mean, are you guys upping your fats on the low carb days ?

I wasn't raising anything when I did it

[Bobby]

a calorie is not a calorie...so is is not just calorie cycling.
low carb days = burn fat deplete glycogen
hi carb days = refill glycogen, stimulate metabolism

i eat 1.25g lean protein per lb
trace fats + 1 yolk
on high carb days i eat less protein, 1g per lb or little less, try to keep fat minimal.
i cycle carbs like this
1 150g
2 150g
3 300g
4 150g
5 150g
6 100g
7 300g

Do the above vs eating 185g carbs per day...your body will get used to the latter imo.

[Coach is Back!]

No because a "calorie IS NOT a calorie" lol.

[Van_Bilderass]

No because a "calorie IS NOT a calorie" lol.

Yeah, if you use the "right" calories you get ripped even when eating in excess of metabolic rate/daily requirement. Some calories are magic calories, especially when timed "right". Just ask Berardi.

[Stavios]

No because a "calorie IS NOT a calorie" lol.

I know that.

that's why I ask, do you guys raise your fats or proteins on the lower carbs days ?

cause when I did my "carb cycle", I dropped the carbs but didn't up anything.
so of course the calories were lowere on low carb days

[Coach is Back!]

Yeah, if you use the "right" calories you get ripped even when eating in excess of metabolic rate/daily requirement. Some calories are magic calories, especially when timed "right". Just ask Berardi.

I don't question John on anything. I find when I do he gives me a complete verbal thesis that goes all the way through lunch and dinner and I wind up falling asleep from brain overload

[Grape Ape]

I know that.

that's why I ask, do you guys raise your fats or proteins on the lower carbs days ?

cause when I did my "carb cycle", I dropped the carbs but didn't up anything.
so of course the calories were lowere on low carb days

From what I've read, you would up the fats a little on the lower carb days.  Not totally replacing the entire amount of lost calories, but cutting the deficit a little.

[JP_RC]

a calorie is not a calorie...so is is not just calorie cycling.
low carb days = burn fat deplete glycogen
hi carb days = refill glycogen, stimulate metabolism

Why would I want to deplete glycogen for days on top of being on a deficit? Too risky for muscle loss and ending up flat.

If someone can burn fat just as effectively with pleny of carbs and a calorie deficit, why cut the carbs? I never understood this logic.

I remember when I tried low carbs before, I ended up flat and lost muscle, it didn't matter how much protein or fat I was eating.

Couldn't someone just stimulate metabolism by just eating at maintenance or above for a day?

[Stavios]

Why would I want to deplete glycogen for days on top of being on a deficit? Too risky for muscle loss and ending up flat.

If someone can burn fat just as effectively with pleny of carbs and a calorie deficit, why cut the carbs? I never understood this logic.

I remember when I tried low carbs before, I ended up flat and lost muscle, it didn't matter how much protein or fat I was eating.

Couldn't someone just stimulate metabolism by just eating at maintenance or above for a day?

It's weird but it seems I can't lose bodyfat on my back without lowering the carbs.

When I do a Keto diet, I get ripped VERY fast, but I end up with no striations what so ever (at 9-10% bf I don't even have a single striation in my chest)

Last year I dieted with Keto, I got to 196 lbs lean (but nowhere near contest shape) when my contest weight the year before was 193 lbs.
So it didn't make any sense to me.

so I got off the diet and added carbs, my weight got up to 218 and I had striation everywhere, while having a smoother look.

then I added insulin and I was 230, 2 weeks later and still the same bf, with some water retention.

but the problem with that is that I was stuck at 9% bf and couldn't go lower because I started the Keto while I was too fat

[Bobby]

Why would I want to deplete glycogen for days on top of being on a deficit? Too risky for muscle loss and ending up flat.

If someone can burn fat just as effectively with pleny of carbs and a calorie deficit, why cut the carbs? I never understood this logic.

I remember when I tried low carbs before, I ended up flat and lost muscle, it didn't matter how much protein or fat I was eating.

Couldn't someone just stimulate metabolism by just eating at maintenance or above for a day?

if u get flat and lose muscle your carbs are too low. up them a little. it's a thin line

[JP_RC]

It's weird but it seems I can't lose bodyfat on my back without lowering the carbs.

When I do a Keto diet, I get ripped VERY fast, but I end up with no striations what so ever (at 9-10% bf I don't even have a single striation in my chest)

Last year I dieted with Keto, I got to 196 lbs lean (but nowhere near contest shape) when my contest weight the year before was 193 lbs.
So it didn't make any sense to me.

so I got off the diet and added carbs, my weight got up to 218 and I had striation everywhere, while having a smoother look.

then I added insulin and I was 230, 2 weeks later and still the same bf, with some water retention.

but the problem with that is that I was stuck at 9% bf and couldn't go lower because I started the Keto while I was too fat

The carb tolerance thing maybe very individual as you're showing in your experience, but I still have my doubts.

[JP_RC]

if u get flat and lose muscle your carbs are too low. up them a little. it's a thin line

True, but my question is why lower carbs besides the point of getting a calorie deficit?

I just don't understand why some people say they can't lose fat if their carbs are above a certain limit despite having a calorie deficit.

In all honesty, I much rather keep carbs as high as I can to keep myself full and manipulate overall calories to lose fat. I don't understand the need for a carb cycling.

[tbombz]

so whats ur question stavy? you want a way to diet all the way down while keeping your muscles and striations? youve got to come down slowly and keep the weights heavy.

[BIG ACH]

Yeah, I've tried it all, keto, moderate carbs, high carbs....

It seems by keeping the carbs high and lowering calories, I was still able to lose fat, but when it came down to the nitty gritty and to get really shredded, I still had to lower the carbs drastically, it just would not go off any other way!

I don't carb cycle, I only gradually lower my carbs as the weeks go by, only during the last 4 weeks do I start implementing 1 carb up day, and thats cause at that point my carbs are pretty damn low, almost down to 0 really!

[Bobby]

True, but my question is why lower carbs besides the point of getting a calorie deficit?

I just don't understand why some people say they can't lose fat if their carbs are above a certain limit despite having a calorie deficit.

In all honesty, I much rather keep carbs as high as I can to keep myself full and manipulate overall calories to lose fat. I don't understand the need for a carb cycling.

usually the lower BF% you get the harder it is to lose fat = carbs need to come down...if it was possible everyone would diet on 400g carbs. The body learns to make up for the small calories deficits when carbs are high, much harder to make up for low carb as long as you have high days to keep metabolism up...something something, i'm not an expert...check out what Chris Aceto writes. he plays around with carbs whilst keeping fat at min and protein between 1-1,5g per lb

[BIG ACH]

usually the lower BF% you get the harder it is to lose fat = carbs need to come down...if it was possible everyone would diet on 400g carbs. The body learns to make up for the small calories deficits when carbs are high, much harder to make up for low carb as long as you have high days to keep metabolism up...something something, i'm not an expert...check out what Chris Aceto writes. he plays around with carbs whilst keeping fat at min and protein between 1-1,5g per lb

Yeah but I know some people, the lowest they ever went with their carbs was like 190g,  I have to go down to like 20 g the last few weeks!

[JP_RC]

usually the lower BF% you get the harder it is to lose fat = carbs need to come down...if it was possible everyone would diet on 400g carbs. The body learns to make up for the small calories deficits when carbs are high, much harder to make up for low carb as long as you have high days to keep metabolism up...something something, i'm not an expert...check out what Chris Aceto writes. he plays around with carbs whilst keeping fat at min and protein between 1-1,5g per lb

I understand, but when carbs come down so are overall calories right? Or do you replace them with fat?

If carbs come down when a plateau is reached, this would be just reducing calories and more fat is lost due to this, since protein would never be reduced if someone is already eating 1g per lb and fat is already kind of low.

I don't know, I guess I'm just going to have to experience on my own and see how lean I can get just focusing on a calorie dificit.

[Jussup]

Yeah but I know some people, the lowest they ever went with their carbs was like 190g,  I have to go down to like 20 g the last few weeks!

welcome to the club! I need to go down to 40g at least and always feel like a zombie. It really sucks.

[tbombz]

welcome to the club! I need to go down to 40g at least and always feel like a zombie. It really sucks.

if you need to lower your carbs to 40g then you are either eating way too much fat or you arent training very hard.

[Stavios]

so whats ur question stavy? you want a way to diet all the way down while keeping your muscles and striations? youve got to come down slowly and keep the weights heavy.

I want the impossible, losing fat quickly while not getting all flat.
ok not the impossible, but I don't want to use DNP  

In fact, I don't want to use any cutting drugs and do any cardio until I am 6-7% bf.

I still have a few weeks of dieting before I get there.

and then, BOOM !
I up the drugs, insert T3 and Clen, start some cardio and get shredded as a motherfuck.

just for the sake of it, I want to get down to inhuman conditionning (not doing a show anytime soon)

[Bobby]

I understand, but when carbs come down so are overall calories right? Or do you replace them with fat?

If carbs come down when a plateau is reached, this would be just reducing calories and more fat is lost due to this, since protein would never be reduced if someone is already eating 1g per lb and fat is already kind of low.

I don't know, I guess I'm just going to have to experience on my own and see how lean I can get just focusing on a calorie dificit.

no you don't replace the calories with fat. but remember carbs = energy calories, if the body has a lack of energy it needs to take it from stored calories (fat) ...if it has enough energy, no need to take as much from fat.

try eating 150C & 300P Vs 300C & 150P...and see which you lose more fat on, both beeing the same amount of calories.

Everyone is different, some get lean very easy, others need to use every trick in the book, low carb, carb cycling, lots of cardio etc...

[Stavios]

welcome to the club! I need to go down to 40g at least and always feel like a zombie. It really sucks.

I can eat 0 carbs for days and days and I never feel tired or anything.

even when I deplete and eat protein only for a few days, it's weird

[tbombz]

I can eat 0 carbs for days and days and I never feel tired or anything.

even when I deplete and eat protein only for a few days, it's weird

most people just let themselves feel like shit because they think they are supposed to. 

im dieting down right now too. i eat zero carbs and fats in 4 of my 5 meals. in addition to the five meals i have one pre workout meal, but its just a couple pieces of fruit, so i dont consider it a meal. my one meal with carbs/fats is post workout and i get about 100-300g carbs depending on how hungry i am. each meal gets 40-50g protein from either chicken egg white or lean beef.

[Stavios]

most people just let themselves feel like shit because they think they are supposed to. 

im dieting down right now too. i eat zero carbs and fats in 4 of my 5 meals. in addition to the five meals i have one pre workout meal, but its just a couple pieces of fruit, so i dont consider it a meal. my one meal with carbs/fats is post workout and i get about 100-300g carbs depending on how hungry i am. each meal gets 40-50g protein from either chicken egg white or lean beef.

You must be looking mean

Aceto apparently had Troy Alves diet with less then 2000 calories a day sometimes during his prep this year 

[BIG ACH]

if you need to lower your carbs to 40g then you are either eating way too much fat or you arent training very hard.

Dude, try like 20-30g of fat, two cardio sessions (45 mins Low intensity in the AM, and 20 minutes High Intensity in the PM), plus 2-3 hours of weight training!  I really don't think thats the reason!