The TRUTH about Pro Bodybuilding and Hormones from an ex national competitor

[benchmstr]

with post alone i can tell you are a fool.

do some reading before you try to question me again.

everything you have stated is incorrect...

bench

[Nirvana]

chick needs to clear this up

nassers book will clear it up even more

until then let's just say, "drugs do not create champions"

[chaos]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Epic gh gut.

[Fatpanda]

everything you have stated is incorrect...

bench

hahahahahahahahaha i'd post some studies to shut you up, but you would need a brain to understand them.

Guys here who really know about gear will back me up on this. i'm sure they will just be lying though  

[Fatpanda]

Epic gh gut.

thats what i'm saying, it was the damn gh     

[BIG_STI]

lol  6 grams a week is a little  

Just the finishing touch right Bob and Howard  

[chaos]

lol  6 grams a week is a little  

Just the finishing touch right Bob and Howard  

If 6 grams is the finishing touch, imagine what it took to get there.

[drkaje]

there has never been any studies done ever on pro level amounts of steroids - as i'm sure you know already you mental midget.

there has been a test +gh study though. again showing it does nothing that is worth the cost/risks

When gh has been studied at normal dosages it does fuck all for muscle growth. when taken at higher dosages for longer periods of time is still does fuck all for muscle growth, but does make bones grow, and costs much money.

some steroids burn fat, grow muscle and are a whole lot cheaper than gh. there is also no abnormal bone growth from gear.

make your choice.

For the last time, hGH causes muscle growth/hypertrophy in smooth and striated muscle. This is why so many users get hypertrophic cardiopmyopathy. Guys/girls get a baseline (non 12 lead) ECG they forget to mention hGH use so doctors assume the left axis deviation is just a sign of a well conditioned heart until there's regurgitation or other symptoms like sudden cardiac death.

hGH is serious stuff but no one wants to admit the guts are caused by use because there's no way to bullshit yourself into believing the growth is limited to one organ.

Like I wrote; some effects are direct while others are indirect. Other drugs, like estrogen, affect growth hormone receptor expression.

If someone wants to risk death it's their own business. There's just no need for bullshit about about risks.

Please stick to comics because posting some studies would look a little too much like TA. Also, being able to read/post a study doesn't mean you understand the basic physiology behind what they're doing or how it relates to endocrine function.

No one's doing human studies because of the oath to do no harm.

[Shockwave]

For the last time, hGH causes muscle growth/hypertrophy in smooth and striated muscle. This is why so many users get hypertrophic cardiopmyopathy. Guys/girls get a baseline (non 12 lead) ECG they forget to mention hGH use so doctors assume the left axis deviation is just a sign of a well conditioned heart until there's regurgitation or other symptoms like sudden cardiac death.

hGH is serious stuff but no one wants to admit the guts are caused by use because there's no way to bullshit yourself into believing the growth is limited to one organ.

Like I wrote; some effects are direct while others are indirect. Other drugs, like estrogen, affect growth hormone receptor expression.

If someone wants to risk death it's their own business. There's just no need for bullshit about about risks.

Please stick to comics because posting some studies would look a little too much like TA. Also, being able to read/post a study doesn't mean you understand the basic physiology behind what they're doing or how it relates to endocrine function.

No one's doing human studies because of the oath to do no harm.

Panda talks alot but hes about 90% wrong from what Ive seen, he talks out of his ass.
He does have his moments tho, like with comics.

[SgtSpar]

there has never been any studies done ever on pro level amounts of steroids

When gh has been studied at normal dosages it does fuck all for muscle growth. when taken at higher dosages for longer periods of time is still does fuck all for muscle growth,

Does this make any sense to you?    No one has ever studied what GH (or steroids) do at very high levels except the pros.  They actually do it, and they all swear by it.  They are without a doubt the most muscular people on the planet.  So how it is that you know that "when taken at higher dosages for longer periods of time is still does fuck all...." when they all swear by it?

[Master Blaster]

Panda talks alot but hes about 90% wrong from what Ive seen, he talks out of his ass.
He does have his moments tho, like with comics.

Considering hes a 12 year old parapalegic, that's hardly suprising. Getbig is a gateway for his rich imagination of muscle furs and strong men.

[Fatpanda]

For the last time, hGH causes muscle growth/hypertrophy in smooth and striated muscle. This is why so many users get hypertrophic cardiopmyopathy. Guys/girls get a baseline (non 12 lead) ECG they forget to mention hGH use so doctors assume the left axis deviation is just a sign of a well conditioned heart until there's regurgitation or other symptoms like sudden cardiac death.

hGH is serious stuff but no one wants to admit the guts are caused by use because there's no way to bullshit yourself into believing the growth is limited to one organ.

Like I wrote; some effects are direct while others are indirect. Other drugs, like estrogen, affect growth hormone receptor expression.

If someone wants to risk death it's their own business. There's just no need for bullshit about about risks.

Please stick to comics because posting some studies would look a little too much like TA. Also, being able to read/post a study doesn't mean you understand the basic physiology behind what they're doing or how it relates to endocrine function.

No one's doing human studies because of the oath to do no harm.

sorry but i don't take the word of some internet nobody, can you post a study that proves your claims about gh  ?

there have been plenty of studies on humans taking gh despite 'the oath',  hell the old gh was taken from dead bodies 

a doctor would know this 

i'll stick to the comics - but i think you should stick to hanging off my every post, like you have been doing, its clear you need the education.

[Howard]

sorry but i don't take the word of some internet nobody, can you post a study that proves your claims about gh  ?

there have been plenty of studies on humans taking gh despite 'the oath',  hell the old gh was taken from dead bodies 

a doctor would know this 

i'll stick to the comics - but i think you should stick to hanging off my every post, like you have been doing, its clear you need the education.

I am no end all expert on HGh or steroids , BUT I do know "bro science" when I hear it, so you are right to be a skeptic of some unknown internet claims nobody can verfify

[Fatpanda]

to all you intellectual half wits who i own every day on here by posting study after study to try to educate your simpleton minds, read this and shut the fuck up:

The Effects of Growth Hormone on Body Composition and Physical Performance in Recreational Athletes
A Randomized Trial
Udo Meinhardt, MD; Anne E. Nelson, PhD; Jennifer L. Hansen, RN; Vita Birzniece, MD, PhD; David Clifford, PhD; Kin-Chuen Leung, PhD; Kenneth Graham, BSc; and Ken K.Y. Ho, MD
+ Author Affiliations

From Garvan Institute of Medical Research and St Vincent's Hospital, Darlinghurst; St. Vincent's Clinical School, University of New South Wales; CSIRO Mathematical and Information Sciences, North Ryde; and New South Wales Institute of Sports, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.
Abstract

Background: Growth hormone is widely abused by athletes, frequently with androgenic steroids. Its effects on performance are unclear.

Objective: To determine the effect of growth hormone alone or with testosterone on body composition and measures of performance.

Design: Randomized, placebo-controlled, blinded study of 8 weeks of treatment followed by a 6-week washout period. Randomization was computer-generated with concealed allocation. (Australian–New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry registration number: ACTRN012605000508673)

Setting: Clinical research facility in Sydney, Australia.

Participants: 96 recreationally trained athletes (63 men and 33 women) with a mean age of 27.9 years (SD, 5.7).

Intervention: Men were randomly assigned to receive placebo, growth hormone (2 mg/d subcutaneously), testosterone (250 mg/wk intramuscularly), or combined treatments. Women were randomly assigned to receive either placebo or growth hormone (2 mg/d).

Measurements: Body composition variables (fat mass, lean body mass, extracellular water mass, and body cell mass) and physical performance variables (endurance [maximum oxygen consumption], strength [dead lift], power [jump height], and sprint capacity [Wingate value]).

Results: Body cell mass was correlated with all measures of performance at baseline. Growth hormone significantly reduced fat mass, increased lean body mass through an increase in extracellular water, and increased body cell mass in men when coadministered with testosterone . Growth hormone significantly increased sprint capacity, by 0.71 kJ (95% CI, 0.1 to 1.3 kJ; relative increase, 3.9% [CI, 0.0% to 7.7%]) in men and women combined and by 1.7 kJ (CI, 0.5 to 3.0 kJ; relative increase, 8.3% [CI, 3.0% to 13.6%]) when coadministered with testosterone to men; other performance measures did not significantly change. The increase in sprint capacity was not maintained 6 weeks after discontinuation of the drug.

Limitations: Growth hormone dosage may have been lower than that used covertly by competitive athletes. The athletic significance of the observed improvements in sprint capacity is unclear, and the study was too small to draw conclusions about safety.

Conclusion: Growth hormone supplementation influenced body composition and increased sprint capacity when administered alone and in combination with testosterone.

[Fatpanda]

Claims for the anabolic effects of growth hormone: a case of the Emperor’s new clothes?
M J Rennie

Abstract
This review examines the evidence that growth hormone has metabolic effects in adult human beings. The conclusion is that growth hormone does indeed have powerful effects on fat and carbohydrate metabolism, and in particular promotes the metabolic use of adipose tissue triacylglycerol. However, there is no proof that net protein retention is promoted in adults, except possibly of connective tissue. The overexaggeration of the effects of growth hormone in muscle building is effectively promoting its abuse and thereby encouraging athletes and elderly men to expose themselves to increased risk of disease for little benefit.



shall i keep going ? ok

Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth in young men

K. E. Yarasheski, J. A. Campbell, K. Smith, M. J. Rennie, J. O. Holloszy and D. M. Bier
Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110.

The purpose of this study was to determine whether growth hormone (GH) administration enhances the muscle anabolism associated with heavy-resistance exercise. Sixteen men (21-34 yr) were assigned randomly to a resistance training plus GH group (n = 7) or to a resistance training plus placebo group (n = 9). For 12 wk, both groups trained all major muscle groups in an identical fashion while receiving 40 micrograms recombinant human GH.kg-1.day-1 or placebo. Fat-free mass (FFM) and total body water increased (P less than 0.05) in both groups but more (P less than 0.01) in the GH recipients. Whole body protein synthesis rate increased more (P less than 0.03), and whole body protein balance was greater (P = 0.01) in the GH-treated group, but quadriceps muscle protein synthesis rate, torso and limb circumferences, and muscle strength did not increase more in the GH-treated group. In the young men studied, resistance exercise with or without GH resulted in similar increments in muscle size, strength, and muscle protein synthesis, indicating that 1) the larger increase in FFM with GH treatment was probably due to an increase in lean tissue other than skeletal muscle and 2) resistance training supplemented with GH did not further enhance muscle anabolism and function.

or more :

Short-term growth hormone treatment does not increase muscle protein synthesis in experienced weight lifters

K. E. Yarasheski, J. J. Zachweija, T. J. Angelopoulos and D. M. Bier
Metabolism Division, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110.

The purpose of this study was to determine whether recombinant human growth hormone (GH) administration enhances muscle protein anabolism in experienced weight lifters. The fractional rate of skeletal muscle protein synthesis and the whole body rate of protein breakdown were determined during a constant intravenous infusion of [13C]leucine in 7 young (23 +/- 2 yr; 86.2 +/- 4.6 kg) healthy experienced male weight lifters before and at the end of 14 days of subcutaneous GH administration (40 microgram.kg-1 x day-1). GH administration increased fasting serum insulin-like growth factor-I (from 224 +/- 20 to 589 +/- 80 ng/ml, P = 0.002) but did not increase the fractional rate of muscle protein synthesis (from 0.034 +/- 0.004 to 0.034 +/- 0.002%/h) or reduce the rate of whole body protein breakdown (from 103 +/- 4 to 108 +/- 5 mumol.kg-1 x h-1).   These findings suggest that short-term GH treatment does not increase the rate of muscle protein synthesis or reduce the rate of whole body protein breakdown, metabolic alterations that would promote muscle protein anabolism in experienced weight lifters attempting to further increase muscle mass.

never, ever question my statements unless you actually have a brain and a real idea of what you are talking about.

[Fatpanda]

what did i say about side effects 

Systematic review: the safety and efficacy of growth hormone in the healthy elderly.
Liu H, Bravata DM, Olkin I, Nayak S, Roberts B, Garber AM, Hoffman AR.

Stanford University, Stanford, California 94305-6019, USA. hauliu@stanford.edu
Comment in:

Nat Clin Pract Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jul;3(7):508-9.
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Human growth hormone (GH) is widely used as an antiaging therapy, although its use for this purpose has not been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and its distribution as an antiaging agent is illegal in the United States. PURPOSE: To evaluate the safety and efficacy of GH therapy in the healthy elderly. DATA SOURCES: The authors searched MEDLINE and EMBASE databases for English-language studies published through 21 November 2005 by using such terms as growth hormone and aging. STUDY SELECTION: The authors included randomized, controlled trials that compared GH therapy with no GH therapy or GH and lifestyle interventions (exercise with or without diet) with lifestyle interventions alone. Included trials provided GH for 2 weeks or more to community-dwelling participants with a mean age of 50 years or more and a body mass index of 35 kg/m2 or less. The authors excluded studies that evaluated GH as treatment for a specific illness. DATA EXTRACTION: Two authors independently reviewed articles and abstracted data. DATA SYNTHESIS: 31 articles describing 18 unique study populations met the inclusion criteria. A total of 220 participants who received GH (107 person-years) completed their respective studies. Study participants were elderly (mean age, 69 years [SD, 6]) and overweight (mean body mass index, 28 kg/m2 [SD, 2]). Initial daily GH dose (mean, 14 microg per kg of body weight [SD, 7]) and treatment duration (mean, 27 weeks [SD, 16]) varied. In participants treated with GH compared with those not treated with GH, overall fat mass decreased (change in fat mass, -2.1 kg [95% CI, -2.8 to -1.35] and overall lean body mass increased (change in lean body mass, 2.1 kg [CI, 1.3 to 2.9]) (P < 0.001), and their weight did not change significantly (change in weight, 0.1 kg [CI, -0.7 to 0.8]; P = 0.87). Total cholesterol levels decreased (change in cholesterol, -0.29 mmol/L [-11.21 mg/dL]; P = 0.006), although not significantly after adjustment for body composition changes. Other outcomes, including bone density and other serum lipid levels, did not change. Persons treated with GH were significantly more likely to experience soft tissue edema, arthralgias, carpal tunnel syndrome, and gynecomastia and were somewhat more likely to experience the onset of diabetes mellitus and impaired fasting glucose. LIMITATIONS: Some important outcomes were infrequently or heterogeneously measured and could not be synthesized. Most included studies had small sample sizes. CONCLUSIONS:   The literature published on randomized, controlled trials evaluating GH therapy in the healthy elderly is limited but suggests that it is associated with small changes in body composition and increased rates of adverse events. On the basis of this evidence, GH cannot be recommended as an antiaging therapy.

  whats that ? you have been owned again by a fat guy who reads comics 

wow

[Howard]

Hey panda, just give up hehehe. I agree with you 100% and understand. The reality is this is a BB forum called get big . It is fun but little more than bro science in most cases. For example, an actual pro like Bob Chick makes a reasonable, basic answer to a question and the numbnuts give him crack. BUT, have some unknown numbnut come on a claim to post the "REAL TRUTH" and they lap it up.

[Ex Coelis]

BFG is Stokely Palmer

there's no mystery here

[Fatpanda]

Hey panda, just give up hehehe. I agree with you 100% and understand. The reality is this is a BB forum called get big . It is fun but little more than bro science in most cases. For example, an actual pro like Bob Chick makes a reasonable, basic answer to a question and the numbnuts give him crack. BUT, have some unknown numbnut come on a claim to post the "REAL TRUTH" and they lap it up.

its true, and i expect it from the faceless gimmicks who stalk me, and argue with my every post for the sake of it, even though i can back them up.

however you would have thought gimmick claiming to be a doctor   would know there are literally hundreds of studies done on gh in humans.  

perhaps his practicing name is Dr Harold Shipman, or maybe he is a witch doctor  

[tbombz]

36 IUs of GH per day? lol

Dude, that guy wouldn't have a Hummer and a Bentley in his garage then, he would be dead broke. And his nose would be as long as Pinocchios.

first of all, mr.olympia does not have to pay for his drugs. you should know better than that. second of all, you must not be aware of the price of GH. american pharmacy made GH is damned expensive for 99% of people, so only a lucky few would be able to run massive doses like ronnie, but generic chinese GH, and even certain human grade chinese and european brands can be had for very cheap, a couple dollars per iu. and when these guys are dealing it, that aint shit.

the facts on gh are this:

1) it's useless for growing muscle
2) it helps burn bodyfat/spares muscle during calorie deficit due to said fat burning properties.
3) if you take too much it turns you into a mutant, with bones growing wild etc not to mention the possible gh gut that still has been neither proven nor disproven.

Now eca, and clen do the same thing as no:2. Also slow calorie reduction also works well i hear  

so why would anyone spend money on such a useless, and potentially dangerous item is a mystery  

first hand experience with gh is that it may not cause large muscle growth, but saying its useless for muscle growth is a bit off base. GH definitely gives the muscles a fuller, rounder appearance, and whole body thickness as well.

[Howard]

its true, and i expect it from the faceless gimmicks who stalk me, and argue with my every post for the sake of it, even though i can back them up.

however you would have thought gimmick claiming to be a doctor   would know there are literally hundreds of studies done on gh in humans.  

perhaps his practicing name is Dr Harold Shipman, or maybe he is a witch doctor  

LOL, look none of these internet clowns are doctors or scientists, etc.

[Fatpanda]

first of all, mr.olympia does not have to pay for his drugs. you should know better than that. second of all, you must not be aware of the price of GH. american pharmacy made GH is damned expensive for 99% of people, so only a lucky few would be able to run massive doses like ronnie, but generic chinese GH, and even certain human grade chinese and european brands can be had for very cheap, a couple dollars per iu. and when these guys are dealing it, that aint shit.


first hand experience with gh is that it may not cause large muscle growth, but saying its useless for muscle growth is a bit off base. GH definitely gives the muscles a fuller, rounder appearance, and whole body thickness as well.

hahahaha did you even read my posts?

increased intercellular water + chance of major sides + astronomical cost = no thanks for me.

[drkaje]

LOL, look none of these internet clowns are doctors or scientists, etc.

Really?!

I'm gonna try again in simpler language....... What makes babies grow? Think really hard before answering because saying growth hormone doesn't increase organ size means you literally think grown adults are using the same sized organs as newborns. Yes, it boils down to something that freaking simple.

I read pretty well and can tell you FP's studies are not studying the effects I'm discussing. One even admitted not using dosages people on the street are using.

FP/Adonis and a few others here others are perfect examples of what's wrong with the internet. People without a foundation can't make sense of some of the information because they lack the necessary foundation. Any tard can read conclusions, LOL! It'd be like reading the last paragraph of War and Peace and thinking oneself an expert on Tolstoy, FFS!

FP, despite being an unabashed nut-rider, is a good guy but just plain wrong. Someone can search the internet and find a study to say anything they want.

Waste of time exchanges over simple shit like this make it pretty clear why Nico left, LOL!

[MindSpin]

Hello, I have read this forum for years now and always found it an amusing source of entertainment. lately, though, i have been frustrated with the idiotic misinformation spread by self proclaimed pseudo gurus such as gh15. I'm here to provide a source of realistic knowledge as to the true hormone usage in the upper echelons of competitive bodybuilding.

I was a top 3 placing national competitor in my twenties. I placed second in my weight class (super heavyweight) a number of times at the national level, effectively just missing an IFBB pro card. I stopped competing because I wanted to raise a family in good health. I am still well immersed in the bodybuilding industry, and while I stopped a couple years ago, I spent nearly a decade giving hormone advice to competitors as a "guru."

What do the pros really use?
Despite what some would like to believe, not many guys go over 2-2.5 grams of test per week. The typical hormone amount of a mid-level IFBB pro is about 5-6 grams of injectable hormones per week. In addition add in various cycles of orals (usually just dianabol and anadrol - used both offseason and precontest to 'fill out'). 20+ iu's of gh is common, especially as the insulin usage increases as well. Insulin is the #1 factor in creating the biggest bodybuilders. Most successful pros are scared to eat food without using slin. Most pros are on a shitload of random peptides, not because they do a whole lot but because they want every single miniscule edge that may be possible. That means add in IGF-1, MGF and PGF into the mix. Also, they never came off. "off cycle" means being on test, eq, gh and slin.

How common is synthol?
everyone uses site enhancement oils, almost always in the biceps, calves and delts. I dont know any IFBB pro who hasnt used synthol. the whole fst-7 training protocol that is so popular today is entirely based around the usage of synthol.

What causes the 'GH GUT?'
too much insulin over a short period of time. its not intestinal enlargement pushing out the stomach walls. While there are a host of IGF-1 receptors in the intestines, the localized growth that occurs isnt enough to permanentally stretch the abdominal muscle walls, that is absurd. Excessive insulin usage over a short period of time (usually to put on 20-30lbs 6 months or a year) leads to visceral fat buildup. In addition, the constant contest yo-yo dieting combined with the massive over-eating of "bulking" leads to visceral fat buildup that is never lost because the diets dont last long enough to effect it. Add in carb loading, you will see huge guts with distention.

Is anyone really natural?
very few natural bodybuilders are actually natural. To be a high placing natural bodybuilder (in the natural leagues) you need to be at least using a fair amount of otc prohormones/designer steroids. Superdrol and pheraplex are two favorites among the natural crowd. A fair amount of naturals take 400-500mg's/week of test. These are usually the top, top guys. Anavar is also popular. Of course the guys that have been doing it for a while and still compete/market their natural physique are on 5-10 iu's of gh.

Hopefully this can clear up any misinformation that circulates on the board. Feel free to ask any questions and I may be able to answer. Finally, despite what clowns like gh15 might tell you; you cannot determine what hormones somebody is on based on what their appearance. Thats retarded. The best you could do is say 'hes watery, bloated and has a red face, maybe hes on anadrol.' Anything more than that is ignorant speculation.

- BFG

pretty accurate.

[drkaje]

pretty accurate.

You do realize his explanation for gH gut is taken from an MD article by Palumbo that's 4+ years old, right?