Flex Wheeler at 23

[NarcissisticDeity]

I know Flex is the better bodybuilder. Shawn himself said that when Flex was 100% on, he was the best ever. I just like Shawn Ray better than Flex, as a personal preference.

Shawn isn't top 20? You're crazy. 

It's cool you like Shawn better but he's not in Flex's league

top 20? best physiques of all time? I think not , good consistent bodybuilder in the upper echelon of all time? NO WAY

[Figo]

you don't know if he was using in 92/93 that's nonsense later in his career sure back then no

look at the improvements in his delts, arms and the calf implants in the time span of a year

[NarcissisticDeity]

look at the improvements in his delts, arms and the calf implants in the time span of a year

improvements? I don't see them  you look at the difference in his delts & calves at 92 and 99 and it's clear by then he was getting silly but that early I don't think so

I know Shawn was harping about his calves back in 93 so maybe you're right 

[JP_RC]

It's cool you like Shawn better but he's not in Flex's league

top 20? best physiques of all time? I think not , good consistent bodybuilder in the upper echelon of all time? NO WAY

I think he would make a list of top 20 best bodybuilders of all time. I mean after Arnold, Haney, and all the rest of the best Mr Olympias, there would still be about 13 spots left, let's put Flex there too and some other guys as well, soo Shawn would make the list in my opinion.

[Jaime]

Shawn and Flex are comparable at their best. Both should have won Olympia's, as another poster said, the powers that be chose to take the sport in another direction, the wrong one.

[Flexb]

Ya'll are saying Flex's problem was this, or Flex's problem was that. He has one of the biggest overall win streaks in the history of the sport. His only problem was failing to win the Mr. Olympia and getting into a car crash. He won virtually every other show and some more than one time. Flex really didn't have too many problems at all seeing as he was taking home victory after victory during his career.  

[Cleanest Natural]

1989    California Championships    Light heavyweight, 1st
1989    Nationals    Light heavyweight, 5th
1990    Junior Nationals    Heavyweight, 2nd
1991    Nationals    Heavyweight, 2nd
1992    USA Championships    Heavyweight & Overall, 1st
1993    Ironman Pro Invitational    1st
1993    Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic    1st
1993    Mr. Olympia    2nd
1995    Ironman Pro Invitational    1st
1995    Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic    2nd
1995    South Beach Pro    1st
1995    Mr. Olympia    8th
1995    Grand Prix Spain    5th
1996    Ironman Pro Invitational    1st
1996    Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic    2nd
1996    Night of Champions    1st
1996    Canada Pro Classic    2nd
1996    Florida Cup Pro    1st
1996    Mr. Olympia    4th
1997    Ironman Pro    1st
1997    Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic    1st
1997    San Jose Pro    1st
1998    Ironman Pro Invitational    1st
1998    Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic    1st
1998    Mr. Olympia    2nd
1999    Grand Prix England    2nd
1999    Pro World    2nd
1999    Mr. Olympia    2nd
2000    Mr. Olympia    3rd
2000    Hungarian Grand Prix    1st
2000    Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic    1st
2000    Ironman Pro Invitational    2nd
2002    Mr. Olympia    7th

[Cleanest Natural]

[Figo]

It's cool you like Shawn better but he's not in Flex's league
top 20? best physiques of all time? I think not , good consistent bodybuilder in the upper echelon of all time? NO WAY

I admire them both, but, you probably just like flex better. he won more, but ray was great too, they both turned pro at very tough amateur line-ups

Shawn was a top bber from the time he turned pro at age 22 in '87, apart from '88, never placed below 5th in the mr o in the next 12 appearances, although not as gifted as Flex, you cant say he is not top 20.

took Flex 4 tries to turn pro age 27, I think, and he looked like the pinnacle of bbing for 3 years won 14 shows, which is phenomenal for such a short time - 9yrs as a pro(comparitively speaking, shawn only got 3 wins in 14 yrs), then couldnt get it together again. also bear in mind ray only really did the o and sometimes the euro gp's, wasnt really doing any other shows, much like labrada.

theyre both the same age, and flex had a big impact in a short time, but Ray was a great bber

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think he would make a list of top 20 best bodybuilders of all time. I mean after Arnold, Haney, and all the rest of the best Mr Olympias, there would still be about 13 spots left, let's put Flex there too and some other guys as well, soo Shawn would make the list in my opinion.

I can think of at least 13 better bodybuilders than Shawn

[Cleanest Natural]

I can think of at least 13 better bodybuilders than Shawn

[Figo]

improvements? I don't see them  you look at the difference in his delts & calves at 92 and 99 and it's clear by then he was getting silly but that early I don't think so

I know Shawn was harping about his calves back in 93 so maybe you're right 

from 91 to 92. 93 he took it another notch while training with glass, really great

I remember flex from 1990, and he looked about the same in 91, but in 92, big, big change! 93 was basically a little bigger, much more polished, great conditioning. 1993 Arnold Classic was unbelievable, if hed brought that exact same package to the olympia, I doubt the judges couldve denied him the mr o!

[NarcissisticDeity]

I admire them both, but, you probably just like flex better. he won more, but ray was great too, they both turned pro at very tough amateur line-ups

Shawn was a top bber from the time he turned pro at age 22 in '87, apart from '88, never placed below 5th in the mr o in the next 12 appearances, although not as gifted as Flex, you cant say he is not top 20.

took Flex 4 tries to turn pro age 27, I think, and he looked like the pinnacle of bbing for 3 years won 14 shows, which is phenomenal for such a short time - 9yrs as a pro(comparitively speaking, shawn only got 3 wins in 14 yrs), then couldnt get it together again. also bear in mind ray only really did the o and sometimes the euro gp's, wasnt really doing any other shows, much like labrada.

theyre both the same age, and flex had a big impact in a short time, but Ray was a great bber

Shawn only got 2 wins in 14 years he was DQed at the Arnold , Flex won twice that amount in his rookie year easily beating some very seasoned pros , Flex had a huge impact in his first year won 4 pro shows and placed second in his first Olympia and second in GP , he was a winning machine

in terms of impact on the sport Flex wins over Shawn , in terms of pro wins Flex wins , in terms of physiques Flex wins , in terms of being the best bodybuilder to never win the Olympia Flex wins

Shawn is a poor mans Flex , if Flex and Shawn were in the same contest and both were on their game Shawn could never beat Flex very few men could , I don't even think Shawn is in Levrone's league

[Figo]

that dqed win was a win imo

no-one is denying flex did more in a shorter time and had a better chance of winning the o, I did say that in my posts

my point is shawn is a top 20 of all time.

[NarcissisticDeity]

that dqed win was a win imo

no-one is denying flex did more in a shorter time and had a better chance of winning the o, I did say that in my posts

my point is shawn is a top 20 of all time.

It wasn't a ' win ' he didn't get paid


I disagree I can think of many better bodybuilders than Shawn not better physique's per sa but when all things are considered

[Figo]

he got robbed!

maybe Im biased, I liked ray, labrada, gaspari those days

[mesmorph78]

Yep, you are correct Youngblood

Flex training arms start @ 3:18, now Mesomorph, tell me those arms aren't "hard"

compared to coleman's 

[Parker]

flex used oil already in 92/93. only became obvious when his physique deteriorated, and he tried to make it up

kevin also used in his arms, as everyone knows

this is how flex made his tiny joints and full muscle bellies look unreal and unbelievable, through intellegent use of seo's in delts and arms

Flex used Escilene back then, just like Levrone. Apparently he said Levrone used soo much (delts) that it wiped the supply out. Flex said that he (Flex) would apply it in his delts in a "T" shaped fashion. I suspect that he used it in his calves as well. Flex's delts had striations in them back in 92/93. Apparently Synthol didn't come around til later with Manfred Hoebel's use,


Meso, at that time period, I think both had the same "hardness"
if you look at the vid I posted where he trains arms, part of that vid has him train delts, and you see the seperation and detail in all three heads as he points them out...

His calves, well Shawn said on here that he said thar they were fake to eff Flex's game up, he knew he didn't have implants.

[Slapper]

Flex's only problem was Flex , he was his own biggest enemy. and 1992 wasn't his best shape I think you mean 1993 and while the ASC was his best shape he wasn't quite the same at the Olympia that year a victim of the spring contests

IMO his package on the 92 Nationals was his bestest of all time.

You can tell that physique was one of a kind because, almost 20 years later, his 92 Nationals photo ops are still in circulation nowadays in bodybuilding magazines.

[Wiggs]

Shawn only got 2 wins in 14 years he was DQed at the Arnold , Flex won twice that amount in his rookie year easily beating some very seasoned pros , Flex had a huge impact in his first year won 4 pro shows and placed second in his first Olympia and second in GP , he was a winning machine

in terms of impact on the sport Flex wins over Shawn , in terms of pro wins Flex wins , in terms of physiques Flex wins , in terms of being the best bodybuilder to never win the Olympia Flex wins

Shawn is a poor mans Flex , if Flex and Shawn were in the same contest and both were on their game Shawn could never beat Flex very few men could , I don't even think Shawn is in Levrone's league

I don't know if Shawn stole you're lunch money or what.  While Flex had the potential to be better than Shawn, Shawn actually lived up and surpassed what was thought of him.  This is why he is better.  Intangibles...Shawn was more focused, disciplined and was driven more than Flex.  Flex has shown himself to be undisciplined, lazy, a fucking liar and not consistent.  I can name the times in Flex's 9 year pro career we have seen him at his best...93. Ironman, AC, and  O. 98 Arnold, 99 Mr. O.  That's it.  
Potential and Reality are different.  And that's what Flex had the potential to be the best ever.  

BTW you can say "if they were both at their best" all day....Problem is Flex wasn't tough enough to consistently show up in his best shape.  That's part of the game.  Shawn is not a poor man's anything.  Their physiques aren't similar.  Melvin, is a poor man's Flex and Richard whateverthefuck his last name is, is poorman's Shawn.

Don't care how many shows Flex won...Overall Flex is looked at as a guy who didn't live up to his potential and Shawn exceeded his potential and got screwed on a couple Os against Yates, yes, Yates...Whole other conversation though and I'm not going to go Hulkster on you about this.

[Cleanest Natural]

[mesmorph78]

Disagree 100% Shawn had less weaknesses than Flex.  Shawn's only letdown was his height.  Shawn and Flex are on the same level.

agreed shawn to me >flex
everyone seems to have this arm fetish
flex arms looked bigger because his chest was lacking people never seem to grasp that

[Figo]

Flex used Escilene back then, just like Levrone. Apparently he said Levrone used soo much (delts) that it wiped the supply out. Flex said that he (Flex) would apply it in his delts in a "T" shaped fashion. I suspect that he used it in his calves as well. Flex's delts had striations in them back in 92/93. Apparently Synthol didn't come around til later with Manfred Hoebel's use,
Meso, at that time period, I think both had the same "hardness"
if you look at the vid I posted where he trains arms, part of that vid has him train delts, and you see the seperation and detail in all three heads as he points them out...
His calves, well Shawn said on here that he said thar they were fake to eff Flex's game up, he knew he didn't have implants.

when I say seo's or oil, I mean any oil, not synthol, my mistake for not clarifying.

btw, even with synthol, properly applied, you can still have striations, like Priest, Ronnie, Darrem, etc

[Figo]

also seo's are for permanent gains too, stretching the muscle fascia for permanent muscle gains. Not the stupid stuff we see ala Valentino, the clever use like flex and kevin and all the others.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I don't know if Shawn stole you're lunch money or what.  While Flex had the potential to be better than Shawn, Shawn actually lived up and surpassed what was thought of him.  This is why he is better.  Intangibles...Shawn was more focused, disciplined and was driven more than Flex.  Flex has shown himself to be undisciplined, lazy, a fucking liar and not consistent.  I can name the times in Flex's 9 year pro career we have seen him at his best...93. Ironman, AC, and  O. 98 Arnold, 99 Mr. O.  That's it.  
Potential and Reality are different.  And that's what Flex had the potential to be the best ever.  

BTW you can say "if they were both at their best" all day....Problem is Flex wasn't tough enough to consistently show up in his best shape.  That's part of the game.  Shawn is not a poor man's anything.  Their physiques aren't similar.  Melvin, is a poor man's Flex and Richard whateverthefuck his last name is, is poorman's Shawn.

Don't care how many shows Flex won...Overall Flex is looked at as a guy who didn't live up to his potential and Shawn exceeded his potential and got screwed on a couple Os against Yates, yes, Yates...Whole other conversation though and I'm not going to go Hulkster on you about this.

I don't know if Shawn stole you're lunch money or what.  While Flex had the potential to be better than Shawn, Shawn actually lived up and surpassed what was thought of him.  This is why he is better.  Intangibles...Shawn was more focused, disciplined and was driven more than Flex.  Flex has shown himself to be undisciplined, lazy, a fucking liar and not consistent.  I can name the times in Flex's 9 year pro career we have seen him at his best...93. Ironman, AC, and  O. 98 Arnold, 99 Mr. O.  That's it. 
Potential and Reality are different.  And that's what Flex had the potential to be the best ever.

Shawn won two pro contests in 14 years and that's surpassing what was thought of him?  I'll agree Shawn was more consistent with his physique but that's about it

BTW you can say "if they were both at their best" all day....Problem is Flex wasn't tough enough to consistently show up in his best shape.  That's part of the game.  Shawn is not a poor man's anything.  Their physiques aren't similar.  Melvin, is a poor man's Flex and Richard whateverthefuck his last name is, is poorman's Shawn.

The point stands Flex at his best is eons better than Shawn , and I'll take Flex 1993 ( consistent the whole year ) over anything Shawn's ever presented . Shawn is a welfare version of Flex he's not in Flex's league , Flex won more contests in 14 months than Shawn in 14 years Shawn is a second tier bodybuilder compared to Flex's first tier

Don't care how many shows Flex won...Overall Flex is looked at as a guy who didn't live up to his potential and Shawn exceeded his potential and got screwed on a couple Os against Yates, yes, Yates...Whole other conversation though and I'm not going to go Hulkster on you about this.

Oh I beg to differ ...you look at 1993 ASC 1993 Ironaman and Flex realized his potential it just wasn't at the Olympia , I don't think Flex would possibly get any better than these two shows and I think this physique stands the test of time and would likely beat Yates at his best and easily anything Shawn's ever presented