Author Topic: This sums up the Mosque Situation  (Read 3160 times)

Eyeball Chambers

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This sums up the Mosque Situation
« on: August 14, 2010, 11:56:30 AM »
if the US stands by religious equality for everyone... then it should apply for everyone and everywhere!!!  You can't pick and choose or else people will take advantage of it all the times in the future.... oh no you can't build a synogogue here because there is a church across the street, etc etc....  The country needs to have a firm stance on the issue, are you allowing for religious freedom or are you going to monitor it and control it like other fundamentalistic countries!

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Dos Equis

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2010, 11:59:45 AM »
A better summary:

Quote
I know a 7 min video is a stretch for a lot of you when you have the attention span of a 4yr old but try, lets pretend for 7 min that it's grownup time.

This guy makes some very basic yet important points that should be considered. Even if you're a "Yes Mosque" person how you cannot at least consider these things is beyond me.

The first part of the video, the info is a little slow and he talks about some photos that were passed around via email shortly after 9/11 most are familiar with but it lays the foundation for what he'll get into and if you fast-forward you'll miss a lot of the main point.



Eyeball Chambers

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2010, 12:04:22 PM »
A better summary:

I watched the video, I agree with the guy completely.

I still don't think we should be going at it by denying them the right we'd uphold for other religions.  If people aren't comfortable with this, make their day to day operations as intolerable as possible.  33386's pig blood idea comes to mind...
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Dos Equis

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 12:47:49 PM »
I watched the video, I agree with the guy completely.

I still don't think we should be going at it by denying them the right we'd uphold for other religions.  If people aren't comfortable with this, make their day to day operations as intolerable as possible.  33386's pig blood idea comes to mind...

We are hopefully going to deny them the privilege of trying to piss on the graves of the 911 victims, while preserving their right of free exercise of religion at some other location.   

And I don't support vandalism as a form of protest.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2010, 01:02:13 PM »
We are hopefully going to deny them the privilege of trying to piss on the graves of the 911 victims, while preserving their right of free exercise of religion at some other location.    

And I don't support vandalism as a form of protest.

How?  I don't understand how you can deny them the right to build in the area without denying all religions?

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Fury

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2010, 01:18:25 PM »
How?  I don't understand how you can deny them the right to build in the area without denying all religions?



They've been effectively denying the church built in 1922 that stood under the WTC the right to rebuild by tying up the approval and plans for rebuilding in bureaucratic tape for nine years. The members of that church have been praying in a tent for the last nine years. Where is all the rage over that?  ::)

Edit: Meant "nine years", not "nice years".  :-X

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2010, 01:29:16 PM »
They've been effectively denying the church built in 1922 that stood under the WTC the right to rebuild by tying up the approval and plans for rebuilding in bureaucratic tape for nice years. The members of that church have been praying in a tent for the last nine years. Where is all the rage over that?  ::)

That's fucked

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Arnold jr

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2010, 01:49:32 PM »
I watched the video, I agree with the guy completely.

I still don't think we should be going at it by denying them the right we'd uphold for other religions.  If people aren't comfortable with this, make their day to day operations as intolerable as possible.  33386's pig blood idea comes to mind...

Denying religious practice, I agree, this would be unjust. All are free to practice their religion as they best see fit so as long as it does not infringe upon the well-being of others, i.e. their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. When any religious group infringes on these rights they may indeed find themselves limited to what they themselves can do.

The truth, radical Islam is the enemy of the U.S. (That and progressivism but that's another topic) to support and allow radical Islam, our enemy, to provide them sanctuary, to allow them, Radical Islam to hold to the same rights and privileges is beyond stupid.

Something else, "rights and privileges" I touched on this once already, we are privileged to have rights, we are not owed them, we garner them by upholding the rules these rights entail. It is not free cake for everyone. How or why we've gotten to the point in America where it's "Free Cake For Everyone" regardless of anything else is something I don't fully understand. The only reasoning I can see behind it is that we have become a land so caught up with tolerance that we're willing to sacrifice everything else simply for tolerance sake.

Ask yourself this, do you believe our founders, the ones who wrote the very law e are supposed to live by, if a group came into this country that was out to destroy it and wanted to set up a house of worship at the center of the country, do you think they would have allowed it? If their life and liberty was at stake, would they say that's OK, e can't infringe on their rights of religious practice even if it infringes on our life and liberty? I know, I know, some would say that doesn't matter, that the founders are old outdated men and we have evolved past them. Bullshit! You can't have it both ways, we are either a nation bound by the constitution or we are a nation bound by the ideology of the current whim and if we are a nation bound by the constitution, then we are bound by protecting the three rights granted, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...everything else is a privilege granted only if those three rights are upheld.

Dos Equis

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2010, 05:20:23 PM »
How?  I don't understand how you can deny them the right to build in the area without denying all religions?



They don't have the right to build a mosque anyplace they choose.  They have the conditional right to the free exercise of their religion.  Forcing them to move the mosque to another location doesn't interfere with their free exercise of religion. 

Keep in mind that pretty much all of the rights we enjoy are conditional, including speech, religion, the press, guns, voting, association, etc. 

240 is Back

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2010, 07:00:25 PM »
They don't have the right to build a mosque anyplace they choose.  They have the Forcing them to move the mosque to another location doesn't interfere with their free exercise of religion. 

I'm okay with it - if you force EVERY religion out of that area.

But saying one specific religion has to move 1000 miles, but all others can be here... something like that would be wrong.

What's weird here... is that many people think Obama is secretly a muslim, etc... so why would they embrace the precedent of the govt allowing certain religions to practice in some areas, but not others?  Aren't they scared Obama might outlaw their "brand" of church within 100 miles of their house, a year down the road?

Agnostic007

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2010, 07:24:16 PM »
Denying religious practice, I agree, this would be unjust. All are free to practice their religion as they best see fit so as long as it does not infringe upon the well-being of others, i.e. their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. When any religious group infringes on these rights they may indeed find themselves limited to what they themselves can do.

The truth, radical Islam is the enemy of the U.S. (That and progressivism but that's another topic) to support and allow radical Islam, our enemy, to provide them sanctuary, to allow them, Radical Islam to hold to the same rights and privileges is beyond stupid.

Something else, "rights and privileges" I touched on this once already, we are privileged to have rights, we are not owed them, we garner them by upholding the rules these rights entail. It is not free cake for everyone. How or why we've gotten to the point in America where it's "Free Cake For Everyone" regardless of anything else is something I don't fully understand. The only reasoning I can see behind it is that we have become a land so caught up with tolerance that we're willing to sacrifice everything else simply for tolerance sake.

Ask yourself this, do you believe our founders, the ones who wrote the very law e are supposed to live by, if a group came into this country that was out to destroy it and wanted to set up a house of worship at the center of the country, do you think they would have allowed it? If their life and liberty was at stake, would they say that's OK, e can't infringe on their rights of religious practice even if it infringes on our life and liberty? I know, I know, some would say that doesn't matter, that the founders are old outdated men and we have evolved past them. Bullshit! You can't have it both ways, we are either a nation bound by the constitution or we are a nation bound by the ideology of the current whim and if we are a nation bound by the constitution, then we are bound by protecting the three rights granted, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...everything else is a privilege granted only if those three rights are upheld.

tell me you see the irony in that statement..

Agnostic007

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2010, 07:30:00 PM »
"The truth is radical Islam is the enemy"...

Agreed....now explain how this group that intends to build the cultural center/mosque is radical..

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2010, 07:34:16 PM »
They don't have the right to build a mosque anyplace they choose.  They have the conditional right to the free exercise of their religion.  Forcing them to move the mosque to another location doesn't interfere with their free exercise of religion. 

Keep in mind that pretty much all of the rights we enjoy are conditional, including speech, religion, the press, guns, voting, association, etc. 

I understand that, but I don't understand how you can tell them they can't build a mosque there without also disallowing Churches and Synagogues to move in?  ???
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Dos Equis

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2010, 10:16:18 PM »
I'm okay with it - if you force EVERY religion out of that area.


Absurd.

Dos Equis

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2010, 10:23:13 PM »
I understand that, but I don't understand how you can tell them they can't build a mosque there without also disallowing Churches and Synagogues to move in?  ???


What other churches are trying to build at or near the site? 

This mosque apparently hasn't complied with disclosure requirements that apply to all public charities in NY. 

blacken700

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2010, 06:35:09 AM »
They don't have the right to build a mosque anyplace they choose.  They have the conditional right to the free exercise of their religion.  Forcing them to move the mosque to another location doesn't interfere with their free exercise of religion. 

Keep in mind that pretty much all of the rights we enjoy are conditional, including speech, religion, the press, guns, voting, association, etc. 

they do have the right to build there,what law is it breaking?you can be as sure as fuck if it was breaking a law the people opposed would be using that law to stop it,I'm sure there are lawyers opposing it

Kazan

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2010, 06:43:27 AM »
they do have the right to build there,what law is it breaking?you can be as sure as fuck if it was breaking a law the people opposed would be using that law to stop it,I'm sure there are lawyers opposing it

You obviously do not understand the difference between a right and a privilege. I have the right to free speech, I have the right to firearms......
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blacken700

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2010, 06:46:20 AM »
and i guess they have the right to build it there ???

Kazan

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2010, 07:09:59 AM »
and i guess they have the right to build it there ???

You guess? That's what I like to see, the youth of America with such commanding knowledge of the constitution.
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blacken700

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2010, 07:19:48 AM »
You guess? That's what I like to see, the youth of America with such commanding knowledge of the constitution.

that's what i like to see, the older generation twisting the Constitution to fit their agenda ;D

Kazan

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2010, 07:25:28 AM »
that's what i like to see, the older generation twisting the Constitution to fit their agenda ;D

Please do explain how it is being twisted, or will I just get more personal attacks?
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Fury

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2010, 08:09:28 AM »
Please do explain how it is being twisted, or will I just get more personal attacks?

What you'll probably get is a youtube video that was linked on DU. But don't blame Blacken for that. Blame the autism. As you can see from his posts, he has trouble expressing himself in words so he has found it easier to just link videos of someone else doing the talking for him.


blacken700

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Re: This sums up the Mosque Situation
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2010, 08:48:58 AM »
BerzerkFury the great educator :D :D :D :D :D :D