Author Topic: Hitting the side delt  (Read 9317 times)

coltrane

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Hitting the side delt
« on: August 19, 2010, 12:42:54 PM »
Guys, what is the best exercise to get that side delt?   I can isolate the fronts fine, but the sides are tough.  Seems like side laterals i can never feel.

Thoughts?

mass 04

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2010, 12:58:04 PM »
These have worked for me..


SquatsRule

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2010, 01:23:02 PM »
Wide grip upright rows, seated side laterals, one arm side laterals, cable laterals keep tension on the side delt, lying side laterals. Wide grip upright rows work pretty well for me. I do a few sets of those and finish with seated side laterals.
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mass 04

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2010, 01:49:53 PM »
Keeping your thumb lower than your pinky helps too. Dorian actually gives great advice in the sticky candidate posted.

coltrane

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2010, 02:01:22 PM »
Sometimes i like doing a variation of the standing front db raise:  Instead of moving the db in it's normal plane, I do a "heil hitler" motion where i'm raising the db off to the side just a tad.  Seems to hit the sid emore.


IDK.  I hate seeing these guys that get on cycles and get these awesome side delts.  I have great front delts, but the sides blow.  I do enough pressing too.  Drives me nuts.  Yes, meltdown.

benchmstr

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2010, 02:05:29 PM »
i usually do them seated.....but i learned from dorian yates, that after every rep let your shoulders roll forward a bit, and it helps you re-align your shoulder for the perfect lateral....also...people dont give upright rows enough credit.....do them in a smith, and it WILL work your shoulders...



go to 1:55 and watch how his shoulders roll forward to reset...

bench


Montague

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2010, 03:53:11 PM »
i usually do them seated.....but i learned from dorian yates, that after every rep let your shoulders roll forward a bit, and it helps you re-align your shoulder for the perfect lateral....also...people dont give upright rows enough credit.....do them in a smith, and it WILL work your shoulders...



go to 1:55 and watch how his shoulders roll forward to reset...

bench




I tried going to 1:55, but the video keeps cutting me off at 0:23.

Oh, and wide grip uprights/high-pulls for side delts.

jpm101

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 03:53:34 PM »
All good advice. To explore more read some of the delt training articles by Gironda. Also the Nautilus original shoulder machine was exceptional for lateral heads. For best lateral work focus you would want the pressure/resistance on the elbow area, rather than with the hands out and away from the body. That's what the nautilus did.  With the added exercise of behind the neck presses on the machine.

Without weights, place one elbow at your side (forearm 90 degrees) and have someone place their hands against your elbow while you raise your elbow up, adjusting the pressure as needed during the raise. Or some guy's will hold a DB as a 90 degree angle while doing this version of side laterals.

 The press behind the  neck hits the lateral heads very well. Have SS'ed these with upright rows (medium grip) for good results. Can also do DB upright rows/Hi-pulls

Might try standing light one DB overhead presses. At the top position lower the DB as if you were doing reverse side laterals, slowly and in complete control. Part of the negative approach to delt training.  There are also "W" presses, "A" presses, etc.Personal point: I, and others, have always had good luck with heavy cheat swing lateral and jerk Presses behind the neck. Maybe not for everyone but worked great for wide shoulders. Good Luck.
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Montague

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2010, 04:02:48 PM »
JPM:
There’s a press that is alternated between the front and behind the neck during each rep.
The bar barely clears the top of the head on the concentric portion.
I hope I’m explaining it properly…

What are those called?
And, did you recommend them on here a few months back?

Thanks.

BodyMachine

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2010, 04:08:57 PM »
i usually do them seated.....but i learned from dorian yates, that after every rep let your shoulders roll forward a bit, and it helps you re-align your shoulder for the perfect lateral....also...people dont give upright rows enough credit.....do them in a smith, and it WILL work your shoulders...



go to 1:55 and watch how his shoulders roll forward to reset...

bench



Bench all I see is a camero at a race track, wrong link?

mass 04

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 04:09:52 PM »
JPM:
There’s a press that is alternated between the front and behind the neck during each rep.
The bar barely clears the top of the head on the concentric portion.
I hope I’m explaining it properly…

What are those called?
And, did you recommend them on here a few months back?

Thanks.

Bradford press?

Montague

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 05:24:19 PM »
Bradford press?


That's it!
Have you ever done them?

benchmstr

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2010, 05:35:38 PM »
Bench all I see is a camero at a race track, wrong link?
fixed

bench

mass 04

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2010, 06:02:56 PM »

That's it!
Have you ever done them?

No. I've done front and rear presses alternating between reps but never the way you described it. I would be interested to know what the difference is.

benchmstr

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2010, 06:06:18 PM »
No. I've done front and rear presses alternating between reps but never the way you described it. I would be interested to know what the difference is.
i do those almost everytime i shoulder press...never knew there was a name for them though....

bench

Montague

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2010, 06:10:07 PM »
No. I've done front and rear presses alternating between reps but never the way you described it. I would be interested to know what the difference is.

I'm presuming time-under-tension is one.

I began noticing favorable results in overall shoulder development after adopting a wider grip and shortening my ROM on militaries.
I'm seriously considering trying the Bradford's.


i do those almost everytime i shoulder press...never knew there was a name for them though....

bench

Because I know that you have some domineering delts, I will heed and mimic your wisdom.


benchmstr

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2010, 06:15:52 PM »
I'm presuming time-under-tension is one.

I began noticing favorable results in overall shoulder development after adopting a wider grip and shortening my ROM on militaries.
I'm seriously considering trying the Bradford's.


Because I know that you have some domineering delts, I will heed and mimic your wisdom.

i do them up until it gets too heavy.....then i just stick with fronts, or behind the necks....i honestly didnt know there was a name for it though....i went on youtube just to see if i was doing what yall are talking about ;D

bench

tbombz

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2010, 06:17:01 PM »
side laterals should work your side deltoid. if you dont "feel it" in your side delt, lighten up the weight. way light. most people think they can use alot of weight on these just because they can press alot. its real easy to jerk the weight up with body language and alot of trap involvement, but the key is to keep your body steady, minimize trap involvement, and pull your arms up using the cap around your shoulder joint. (deltoid). you might need to adjust your form, try starting with the dumbells resting against your thighs, palms facing you. lift the weights up, pinkies leading, and your arms lsightly out in front of your body.


if you still dont feel it, dont worryu about feeling it, just do the exercise. theres not too much of any options besides your side delts for lifting your arms up to the side. as long as your doing the exercise properly, your side delts WILL be doing the work.


benchmstr

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2010, 07:02:18 PM »
side laterals should work your side deltoid. if you dont "feel it" in your side delt, lighten up the weight. way light. most people think they can use alot of weight on these just because they can press alot. its real easy to jerk the weight up with body language and alot of trap involvement, but the key is to keep your body steady, minimize trap involvement, and pull your arms up using the cap around your shoulder joint. (deltoid). you might need to adjust your form, try starting with the dumbells resting against your thighs, palms facing you. lift the weights up, pinkies leading, and your arms lsightly out in front of your body.


if you still dont feel it, dont worryu about feeling it, just do the exercise. theres not too much of any options besides your side delts for lifting your arms up to the side. as long as your doing the exercise properly, your side delts WILL be doing the work.


most people simply do side raises wrong.....they always favor them forward a little....sometimes its just best to put them on a side delt machine for a few weeks to memerize the correct angle...

bench

tonymctones

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2010, 08:04:50 PM »
I agree that most ppl dont do side laterals with form that is best for hitting the lateral delts.

I also agree with the wider grip upright rows, this is a great exercise but can be rough on the shoulders.

I would also say weighted dips going below parallel is another great overall shoulder exercise.

I did no direct shoulder work or inclines for a long time when I first started lifting but did weighted dips religiously and upright rows and with those two I seemed to be able to build decent shoulders.

Montague

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2010, 08:20:59 PM »
I experienced a bit of shoulder discomfort from uprights as well until I learned to keep the bar close to my body.
The bar maintains almost constant contact with my clothing both the whole way up and down.

I've seen some people who hold the bar up to several inches out in front of them, which often places unneeded stress on the shoulders.

tonymctones

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2010, 08:57:38 PM »
I experienced a bit of shoulder discomfort from uprights as well until I learned to keep the bar close to my body.
The bar maintains almost constant contact with my clothing both the whole way up and down.

I've seen some people who hold the bar up to several inches out in front of them, which often places unneeded stress on the shoulders.
I do it both ways, but when I have the bar away from my body I use lighter weight I think these hits my front delts more where as keeping the bar right up next to you hits the lateral delts more.

I also only come up to about the nipples maybe a little bit above instead of to my throat like I did when I was younger.

Montague

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2010, 04:25:52 AM »
I also only come up to about the nipples maybe a little bit above instead of to my throat like I did when I was younger.


I'm like you in that regard.
I also take a wider grip than most people.

To give you an idea:
At the topmost portion of the rep, my forearms are perpendicular to the ground, my upper arm is parallel to the ground, and the bar is about as high as my sternum.
Done this way, you can’t pull any higher than that.

I feel that this technique helps me minimize trapezius involvement.
I also use straps because - like with back work - they allow me to focus more on pulling with the intended muscles.
The wider grip also minimizes the wrist discomfort I used to get with the narrow-grip style.

jpm101

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2010, 09:38:45 AM »
That's correct, the Bradford press (Jim Bradford..great Olympic lifter of the past). Though this exercise is not for everyone. Caution would be advised because of the hand gripping/spacing on the bar. An extra wide grip (which is required) can put excessive stress on the shoulder girdle for some. Most noticed when heavier weight is used. If no problems with it than it gives intense focus on the 3 heads of the delts, as well as the traps. Great pump also. Guy's with longer arms/broader frame seem not to have that trouble as much.

Again, with a extra wide overhead pressing grip more leverage in put upon the rotor cuff and shoulder muscle inserts. Even the elbows. Same thing can apply to the upright rowing. Which with that extra wide grip, becomes more of a high pull.  In any event, if doing Hi-pull (Gironda style) for the lateral head, lead with the elbows and only go as high as nipple (or a little above) height.

When doing upright rows (or any other Hi-pull, etc) try keeping the bar close to the body. Having the bar out and away from the body tends to put too much stress on the joints. Might be the reason some injury themselves when doing that exercise. It is a superior movement and mass builder when done correctly. One of my top favorites. If a straight bar bothers the wrist/elbows than switch to a EZ bar. Or use DD's, which can offer some advantages over any type of bar. Prefer doing uprights or Hi-pulls one arm at a time with DB's.

The gentleman doing the incline lateral raise may be better served if he were to lay down against the board. Can also hit the front/side delts if laying on the incline board, the regular way, and do laterals. Also there is laying on the ground/mat and have a DB in front of you. Raise it overhead and lower it behind you. Come back up again and lower it to the front (the original starting point). Excellent exercise. can also do this on a incline board. Good Luck.
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JasonH

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Re: Hitting the side delt
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2010, 02:10:34 PM »
I was training delts with Leroy Davis about two weeks ago and he showed me how to do them how he and Dorian used to do them back in the day. The Blood and Guts video only has Dorian doing them seated but more often than not they did them standing.

Keep feet shoulder width apart.
Have dumbells at front of body palms facing each other.
Lean slightly forward into the weight
Bring dumbells up keeping arms only slightly bent (in fact, he had me doing them almost straight armed)
By the time you get to the top of the movement, the dumbells should be slightly higher than the delts themselves (almost level with the traps)
The pinky should be higher than the thumb.
Hold for a second at the top (this takes practice, believe me)
Lower slowly.

We did three sets, starting with 40lbs, then 45s, then 50s to finish off. As soon as we finished with the 50s, we dropped down to 25lb dumbells and just crank out the reps but just keeping the arms at the sides at the bottom of the rep.

I had to drop my usual dumbell weights just to do them this way but doing them this way fucking works - my delts were still sore three days later. That was in addition to doing smith machine presses and upright rows, finishing off with some rear delt work. Damn good workout that was.  :)