the only thing that will save the USA

[Arnold jr]

The USA is a little child who has been running with scissors for years.

As a country you are what ... just over 200 years old. That's a baby relative to other cultures.

And then there's Canada that you speak so highly of and it's 100yrs younger than America. Point being, I really don't think the age of a country really has anything to do with what I said in my last reply.

[24KT]

was NOT for a sense of power....i already have that, dont need a job for it...after college i went to iraq/astan...when i got back i had a lot of options..the top ones being

1)do nothing..because i dont have to..but i am not lazy so that choice was killed early on
2)go into the mechanical engineering field...since thats what i went to college for
3)or do what i was good at....being in stressfull situations...i just have a knack for it....you wont find a lot of people that are better at my type of job than me...i really dont have the passion for it anymore...but its addicting, and i kickass at it..

my options if i stop LE

1)i have been a certified sniper instructor for some time now....i have deeply considered doing that...
2)go back and play in astan, and any other country needing soldiers for hire..
3)nothing...wont happen though
bench

Thanks for the reply. 

btw Bench, ...did I ever mention that you skeer me? 

Anybody that would go charging head first into a building in iraq knowing there are gun men on the other side, and that he'll probably get shot, is skeery. 

[24KT]

And then there's Canada that you speak so highly of and it's 100yrs younger than America. Point being, I really don't think the age of a country really has anything to do with what I said in my last reply.

True... Perhaps my use of the USA's chronological age as a means of bolstering my argument was a poor example. Chronological age really means very little, ...it's maturity that counts, and the USA has demonstrated time & time again that it has the maturity of a selfish, immature child running with scissors; one ready to throw a temper tantrum should the application of wisdom thwart it's selfish & myopic desires for immediate satisfaction.

[tonymctones]

True... Perhaps my use of the USA's chronological age as a means of bolstering my argument was a poor example. Chronological age really means very little, ...it's maturity that counts, and the USA has demonstrated time & time again that it has the maturity of a selfish, immature child running with scissors; one ready to throw a temper tantrum should the application of wisdom thwart it's selfish & myopic desires for immediate satisfaction.

LOL says the little fish in the big pond...sorry hun it pays to swing a big stick and we have one if canada had one they would do the same...

[benchmstr]

Thanks for the reply. 

btw Bench, ...did I ever mention that you skeer me? 

Anybody that would go charging head first into a building in iraq knowing there are gun men on the other side, and that he'll probably get shot, is skeery. 

you gotta die somehow...might as well have a cool story for people to hear at the funeral.....and that isnt isnt even close to some of the funniest stuff i have done...not even top 15...

bench

[Arnold jr]

True... Perhaps my use of the USA's chronological age as a means of bolstering my argument was a poor example. Chronological age really means very little, ...it's maturity that counts, and the USA has demonstrated time & time again that it has the maturity of a selfish, immature child running with scissors; one ready to throw a temper tantrum should the application of wisdom thwart it's selfish & myopic desires for immediate satisfaction.

Yet which country gives more than any other on the planet? Who's citizens give more to humanitarian aid than all the citizens of the world combined? Which country is always at the forefront of trying to help other nations when disaster strikes?

I'll give you a clue:

It's not Spain
It's not France
It's not England
It's not Canada
It's not Russia
It's not Iran
It's not Australia
It's not Italy
It's not Japan
It's not Germany
It's not Egypt
It's not China
It's not Greece
It's not Korea
It's not Brazil
It's not Cuba
It's not Poland
It's not Denmark
It's not Slovakia
It's not Venezuela
It's not Mexico
It's not India
It's not South Africa
It's not Austria
It's not Ghana
It's not Moldova
It's not Saudi Arabia


Need more clues?

[benchmstr]

Yet which country gives more than any other on the planet? Who's citizens give more to humanitarian aid than all the citizens of the world combined? Which country is always at the forefront of trying to help other nations when disaster strikes?

I'll give you a clue:

It's not Spain
It's not France
It's not England
It's not Canada
It's not Russia
It's not Iran
It's not Australia
It's not Italy
It's not Japan
It's not Germany
It's not Egypt
It's not China
It's not Greece
It's not Korea
It's not Brazil
It's not Cuba
It's not Poland
It's not Denmark
It's not Slovakia
It's not Venezuela
It's not Mexico
It's not India
It's not South Africa
It's not Austria
It's not Ghana
It's not Moldova
It's not Saudi Arabia


Need more clues?

and we need to stop all that shit....fuck everyone else....we need to build a snow cone machine on every corner(that my dream) and that shit isnt going to happen if we keep giving money to countries that are too stupid for early warning...

bench

[Arnold jr]

and we need to stop all that shit....fuck everyone else....we need to build a snow cone machine on every corner(that my dream) and that shit isnt going to happen if we keep giving money to countries that are too stupid for early warning...

bench

I was referring to what our citizens do, not our government. I agree, our government has no business giving all the money away it does, I agree with you 100%.

[AbrahamG]

Those who earn the most typically have earned the right to earn the most.

Look at it this way, you invent a widget, you take out a personal loan in order to produce your widget, you take a risk that is yours and yours alone, you open a factory to produce and sell your widgets. You have guys on the factory line who put the widgets you created together in mass amounts, they pack your widgets and ship your widgets out. Without your idea there is no widget, without your idea there is no job for these factory workers at your widget factory, without your idea and willingness to take a risk there is no widget, no factory, no jobs.

In that story about your widget factory, who does the largest lump of money belong to? You, the creator and inventor of the widget, the one who invested in the widget company at his risk, the head of the widget company, the person who gave jobs to all the widget employees who would be unemployed if it weren't for you, or does that money belong to the guy who loads widget boxes on to the back of a truck all day who has taken no risk nor come up with an idea that is his own...who does the money belong to?

Can you honestly say it doesn't belong to you, the widget owner and risk taker? If you can say that, please give me some good reasons.

Bullshit.  Most of that 1% are trust fund babies or criminals.

[tonymctones]

Bullshit.  Most of that 1% are trust fund babies or criminals.

way of the world...why should you prosper b/c of what their parents did then?

fact of the matter is slapper thinks that the CFO, CEO, managers etc...should make the same or about the same as ppl in the factory...the problem is the CFO, CEO could go do their jobs they could the factory jobs if they had to...the factory workers could not go do the CFO, CEO, executives jobs...thats why they get paid more b/c they have more responsibility and require more education and know how of certain issues than other positions...

if the factory worker wants more money they need to make moves to insure that not try and get more money for a job that someone off the street can do.

[Arnold jr]

Bullshit.  Most of that 1% are trust fund babies or criminals.

First off, everything tony said above is right on the money. Secondly, do you have any idea how many self-made millionaires make up the wealthy population? A lot more of those than your so called trust-fund babies.

Also, you do realize that this carries over to the smaller business owner as well, he may not be making millions but it's HIS business. it exist because of HIM.

People that say things like you just said, if you really feel that way and believe that's what's right, start sharing your paycheck with others, open the doors of your home to homeless people and let as many of them crash there as you can fit in. It may be your house but by the reasoning you're using there is no reason you shouldn't allow 100 squatters into your home.

[24KT]

I was referring to what our citizens do, not our government. I agree, our government has no business giving all the money away it does, I agree with you 100%.

Arnold, just so you know... my references were to your government, NOT your citizens.
They have no power or control over their government's actions.

[24KT]

LOL says the little fish in the big pond...sorry hun it pays to swing a big stick and we have one if canada had one they would do the same...

We're talking international relationships & co-existence on this planet, ...not ladies night at the male strip club. 

[Slapper]

After you read that book, a lot will make perfect sense to you.   read it if you dare, and I promise afterwards, you will never look at the issues the same again.  

Its about how the Fed Reserve devalues the dollar to where the dollars we make are worth less and less and less.  

The the value of the dollar is down the drain is something most people know already. All you have to do is remember what you used to be able to buy with $ 100.00 when you were young vs. what you're able to buy with $ 100.00 today.

The biggest problem for the dollar, and it's a huge one, is that it's going to lose reserve currency status soon. When that happens either our government keeps their shit together or the dollar is going to sink further. The ideal is to soften the fall and eventually end up with something like the British Pound, which kept most of its value.

[AbrahamG]

First off, everything tony said above is right on the money. Secondly, do you have any idea how many self-made millionaires make up the wealthy population? A lot more of those than your so called trust-fund babies.

Also, you do realize that this carries over to the smaller business owner as well, he may not be making millions but it's HIS business. it exist because of HIM.

People that say things like you just said, if you really feel that way and believe that's what's right, start sharing your paycheck with others, open the doors of your home to homeless people and let as many of them crash there as you can fit in. It may be your house but by the reasoning you're using there is no reason you shouldn't allow 100 squatters into your home.

Once again, bullshit.  If I am taxed at 40% for working a double time sunday, than these wall street criminals who you defend should pay the same rate on dividends, stock options and other scams of the like.  Ask Warren Buffet who shares a bigger percentage of his paycheck?  Him or his secretary.  I think you know the answer.

[tonymctones]

Once again, bullshit.  If I am taxed at 40% for working a double time sunday, than these wall street criminals who you defend should pay the same rate on dividends, stock options and other scams of the like.  Ask Warren Buffet who shares a bigger percentage of his paycheck?  Him or his secretary.  I think you know the answer.

LMFAO how are dividends and stock options scams?

goodness gracious the amount of financial idiocy on this board is astounding 

[AbrahamG]

LMFAO how are dividends and stock options scams?

goodness gracious the amount of financial idiocy on this board is astounding 

The scam is they pay a significantly lesser percentage on those earnings than say somebody who punches a clock for a living.  For example, my CEO generally takes in an extra 10-15 million per year in stocks.  He pays no more than 15% on those where if I work Sunday and get paid double time, i pay 40%.  Actually, I'm fine with paying the 40%, it should also apply to the aforementioned stocks, bonds, dividends, etc.  When you speak of financial idiocy, you must be looking in the mirror.  The odds are overwhelming that since your posting on this board that you do not make the kind of money that the people your defending make.  With that said, it's kind of sad that your cutting off your nose to spite your face in the hopes that you might someday win the lottery or it's equivalent and make it to the promised land.  The right is selling a dream to working people and your buying into it at your own peril.  Good luck.

[Slapper]

[...]fact of the matter is slapper thinks that the CFO, CEO, managers etc...should make the same or about the same as ppl in the factory...the problem is the CFO, CEO could go do their jobs they could the factory jobs if they had to...the factory workers could not go do the CFO, CEO, executives jobs...thats why they get paid more b/c they have more responsibility and require more education and know how of certain issues than other positions[...]

I did not say I want CEOs and all managerial staff to make the same amount of money as a line worker. What I am saying is that ANY company nowadays is excessively hierarchical, and that the pay ratios between the line worker and the managerial staff is way out of whack with the production-for-pay magic formula. When you have 1% of the staff taking in 95% of the profits (within the company mind you) that is a bomb waiting to explode.

What I argue is that unless pay ratios get back to those from the 50s to early 80s (in which it was 20-40:1) we're up shit creek without a paddle.  Furthermore, American companies have to restructure internally and become MUCH less hierarchical. At my company, there's 3 levels between myself and the ED (executive director). That's a lot of fuckers making ¼ million bucks. To make matters worse, and because of the economy, most of the layoffs taking place right now are taking place, at my company, at the production levels. I'd say 75% of these jobs are being outsourced. This new "phenomenon" has created some funny situations at my company, like some departments having only executive and associate directors as well as supervisors, and yet... no one to supervise. Not a single soul.

My CEO could never do one thousandth of the jobs within the company. All jobs are specialized so they require training. On the other hand, any line worker could walk into any boardroom and do just as good as job as the company's CEO. Why? Because all boardrooms are full of advisors that kind of reduce all decisions to one or two possible options, letting the CEO make the final decision so that they can cover their asses. Any how, I think anyone here could've done a much better job than the CEOs of Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, et cetera. Those people drove the companies to the ground. And you certainly don't need to go to school for that.

[The Showstoppa]

I did not say I want CEOs and all managerial staff to make the same amount of money as a line worker. What I am saying is that ANY company nowadays is excessively hierarchical, and that the pay ratios between the line worker and the managerial staff is way out of whack with the production-for-pay magic formula. When you have 1% of the staff taking in 95% of the profits (within the company mind you) that is a bomb waiting to explode.

What I argue is that unless pay ratios get back to those from the 50s to early 80s (in which it was 20-40:1) we're up shit creek without a paddle.  Furthermore, American companies have to restructure internally and become MUCH less hierarchical. At my company, there's 3 levels between myself and the ED (executive director). That's a lot of fuckers making ¼ million bucks. To make matters worse, and because of the economy, most of the layoffs taking place right now are taking place, at my company, at the production levels. I'd say 75% of these jobs are being outsourced. This new "phenomenon" has created some funny situations at my company, like some departments having only executive and associate directors as well as supervisors, and yet... no one to supervise. Not a single soul.

My CEO could never do one thousandth of the jobs within the company. All jobs are specialized so they require training. On the other hand, any line worker could walk into any boardroom and do just as good as job as the company's CEO. Why? Because all boardrooms are full of advisors that kind of reduce all decisions to one or two possible options, letting the CEO make the final decision so that they can cover their asses. Any how, I think anyone here could've done a much better job than the CEOs of Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, et cetera. Those people drove the companies to the ground. And you certainly don't need to go to school for that.

Begrudgingly, I have to agree with much of what you say.  Nothing wrong with a CEO doing well, especially if the company is, but often their pay is way out of proportion with many other highly trained individuals.  Great example is in a hospital setting.  CEO's who are basically fundraisers making 7 figures while many on the staff who are highly trained make 50k and worry about job security.

[Slapper]

Begrudgingly, I have to agree with much of what you say.  Nothing wrong with a CEO doing well, especially if the company is, but often their pay is way out of proportion with many other highly trained individuals.  Great example is in a hospital setting.  CEO's who are basically fundraisers making 7 figures while many on the staff who are highly trained make 50k and worry about job security.

You also brought up a good point: Job security. Whitout it, my fellow Gringos don't buy cars, don't buy houses, don't buy electronics. You know, all those things that make the American economy the # 1 economy in the world. So... either The Changer puts an end to this outsourcing bullshit or he's toast. Because whithout job security there is no economy. It's just that simple.

[The Showstoppa]

You also brought up a good point: Job security. Whitout it, my fellow Gringos don't buy cars, don't buy houses, don't buy electronics. You know, all those things that make the American economy the # 1 economy in the world. So... either The Changer puts an end to this outsourcing bullshit or he's toast. Because whithout job security there is no economy. It's just that simple.

Very true.  Label it consumer confidence or whatever, but if people are not secure, of course they are going to stash the money away or at the very least delay buying.  Of course the bottom rung is going to continue to buy cigs, booze, etc... but I'm talking about the "working class."

[Soul Crusher]

Very true.  Label it consumer confidence or whatever, but if people are not secure, of course they are going to stash the money away or at the very least delay buying.  Of course the bottom rung is going to continue to buy cigs, booze, etc... but I'm talking about the "working class."

Yup - all of my contractor clients are in literal lock down mode.  No one is spending or doing anything.  Everyone is in mattress mode.   

[tonymctones]

The scam is they pay a significantly lesser percentage on those earnings than say somebody who punches a clock for a living.  For example, my CEO generally takes in an extra 10-15 million per year in stocks.  He pays no more than 15% on those where if I work Sunday and get paid double time, i pay 40%.  Actually, I'm fine with paying the 40%, it should also apply to the aforementioned stocks, bonds, dividends, etc.  When you speak of financial idiocy, you must be looking in the mirror.  The odds are overwhelming that since your posting on this board that you do not make the kind of money that the people your defending make.  With that said, it's kind of sad that your cutting off your nose to spite your face in the hopes that you might someday win the lottery or it's equivalent and make it to the promised land.  The right is selling a dream to working people and your buying into it at your own peril.  Good luck.

LOL well first of all those are options and they are not necissarily taken where as you will get paid for working a double on sunday they may not exercise those options due to performance if they have stock options coming due this year they probably arent going to take them...that doesnt make dividends and stock options scams...you can basically do the same thing by shorting or going long on stocks or investing in stocks that traditionally give dividens...so why is it not fair again?  these ppl get taxed for salaries same as you do probably more unless your in the 35% tax bracket...you can invest and take advantage of stocks and im sure if your company gives stock options to execs they probably give stock options to lower level employees as well... again its not scam its ignorance...

Im not buying into anything but im not sitting here bitching about anything like you and slapper are either...you want more money get up and go get it...

[AbrahamG]

LOL well first of all those are options and they are not necissarily taken where as you will get paid for working a double on sunday they may not exercise those options due to performance if they have stock options coming due this year they probably arent going to take them...that doesnt make dividends and stock options scams...you can basically do the same thing by shorting or going long on stocks or investing in stocks that traditionally give dividens...so why is it not fair again?  these ppl get taxed for salaries same as you do probably more unless your in the 35% tax bracket...you can invest and take advantage of stocks and im sure if your company gives stock options to execs they probably give stock options to lower level employees as well... again its not scam its ignorance...

Im not buying into anything but im not sitting here bitching about anything like you and slapper are either...you want more money get up and go get it...

The difference is that working people have to purchase their own stocks.  It is their own money.  CEO's are GIVEN options.  Meaning they don't take any risk of their own.  So when they guess right or perform insider trading along with all their cronies on the board they are making tons of money and not paying their fair share of taxes.  For example, my CEO was given on top his salary and bonus 500,000 options and at the time our stock was in the tank.  Roughly $1.25 per share.  So 6 months later when that stock surpassed $21 per share and he sold, you do the math.  $21 X 500,000 and taxed at a max of 15%.......I work a doubletime sunday and gross $500 and am lucky to keep $300 of it.  I'll never understand why working class people side with the rich and privileged and bash and self hate the working class so much.

[Soul Crusher]

The difference is that working people have to purchase their own stocks.  It is their own money.  CEO's are GIVEN options.  Meaning they don't take any risk of their own.  So when they guess right or perform insider trading along with all their cronies on the board they are making tons of money and not paying their fair share of taxes.  For example, my CEO was given on top his salary and bonus 500,000 options and at the time our stock was in the tank.  Roughly $1.25 per share.  So 6 months later when that stock surpassed $21 per share and he sold, you do the math.  $21 X 500,000 and taxed at a max of 15%.......I work a doubletime sunday and gross $500 and am lucky to keep $300 of it.  I'll never understand why working class people side with the rich and privileged and bash and self hate the working class so much.

Because the idea that making one group of people richer at the expense of others is nothing but pure nonsense and fantasy.  All that ever happens is shared poverty.