Author Topic: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation  (Read 13216 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2010, 08:24:25 AM »
first you would have to define "collapse the nation"

to me that term means the collapse of our goverment

then you would actually have to show me some proof but keep in mind if you could actually do that then you would be testifying in front of congress or you would have an "accident" or something like that.   

what you actually do is read far right wing nutjobs and then swallow their bullshit hook, line and sinker and then come running over to GB.com to post the same thing day after day after day after day after day

Saul Alinsky is a right wing source? 

Obama's own words, actions, past, are right sources now?  Someone tells me they want to "transform me", the first thing on my mind is "transform me from what to what?"   



Straw Man

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2010, 08:30:53 AM »
Saul Alinsky is a right wing source? 

Obama's own words, actions, past, are right sources now?  Someone tells me they want to "transform me", the first thing on my mind is "transform me from what to what?"   

what does a guy who died almost 40 years ago have to do with your conspiracy theory about Obama?

do me a favor and don't cut and paste

just use your own words and try to keep it short

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2010, 08:36:24 AM »
what does a guy who died almost 40 years ago have to do with your conspiracy theory about Obama?

do me a favor and don't cut and paste

just use your own words and try to keep it short

Obamas policies CLEARLY show that his intent is the destruction of the country.The health care bill WILL NOT bend the cost curve as predicted and will sky rocket premiums[which you will see in a month or so].The goal is eliminate private health care companies,so government health care will be "the answer".

The stimulus was passed NOT to help the economy,but to pay off unions.No thought at all about the deficit.

The financial reform bill will put government in control of deciding which companies and buisiness' might fail and they will be allowed to take them over.

Every policy this man has passed or intends to pass is designed to put the government in total control of the economy and the country.He wants to completely eliminate the private sector and put the government in charge of it.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2010, 08:41:33 AM »
what does a guy who died almost 40 years ago have to do with your conspiracy theory about Obama?

do me a favor and don't cut and paste

just use your own words and try to keep it short

Obama went to Chicago to become a community organizer and was trained specificially in the Saul Alinsky methods.  Alinsky is to the far left what Goldwater is to many conservatives.  

Now, community organizer is not like a guy doing charity work.  Its not, its more of an extortion racket specifically to building power, and being able to use the "Have-Nots" to take away power and money from the "Haves", and getting the "Have little-Want More" to go along with the revolution.  When you look at obamas suing banks knowning they would suffer as a result of the bad loans, the polarization, the daily enemies list, the overwheling of the system so everything is a crisis and collapses, it is clear as day he is following this play book to the letter.    

There are specific phrases in that book Straw that Obama himself uses daily, and the whole book is centered about bringing oabout "Change", although it is never mentioned what it is, so long as it collapses the existing power structure.  Alinsky even says to never really say what "change" means since that will open one up for attack, just keep making more demands and demands on the system in the name of "change" such that the system can't accomodate all the demands and collapses from within.  

Reading this, book, I was disgusted and revolted to see how we are dealing with a extoritionist in 1600 PA Ave. using the same tactics explicitly outlined in this book.  i have another running thread on this.  

Whether its health care, cap & trade, all these other crazy schemes destimned to fail, the goal is to make so many demands on the existing system so that it colapses from within and a new marxist/socialist regime can be put into place.  

    

Straw Man

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2010, 08:44:13 AM »
Obamas policies CLEARLY show that his intent is the destruction of the country.The health care bill WILL NOT bend the cost curve as predicted and will sky rocket premiums[which you will see in a month or so].The goal is eliminate private health care companies,so government health care will be "the answer".

The stimulus was passed NOT to help the economy,but to pay off unions.No thought at all about the deficit.

The financial reform bill will put government in control of deciding which companies and buisiness' might fail and they will be allowed to take them over.

Every policy this man has passed or intends to pass is designed to put the government in total control of the economy and the country.He wants to completely eliminate the private sector and put the government in charge of it.

lot's of speuclation but not one shred or proof to support the premise of "intentional collapse"

I see no proof of intent andin fact I don't see proof of any of your statements

how about some proof that the stimulus purpose was to pay off unions.   That one should be pretty easy to prove

how about some proof that the intent of the health care legislation was to put private companies out of buseinss (yet at the the same time giving them 30 million new customers many of whom will get federal aid to pay premiums to private companies).  

how about just one statement and then some clear cut proof to support that statement or admit that you're just offering nothing more than pure speculation and conspiracy theories

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2010, 08:45:15 AM »
LOL what im dying for is you to back up any of the bull shit you spew on this board... ;)

no tony...bush did everything right economically for 8 years to lead to state of the economy at the culmination of his term...

Straw Man

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2010, 08:47:41 AM »
Obama went to Chicago to become a community organizer and was trained specificially in the Saul Alinsky methods.  Alinsky is to the far left what Goldwater is to many conservatives.  

Now, community organizer is not like a guy doing charity work.  Its not, its more of an extortion racket specifically to building power, and being able to use the "Have-Nots" to take away power and money from the "Haves", and getting the "Have little-Want More" to go along with the revolution.  When you look at obamas suing banks knowning they would suffer as a result of the bad loans, the polarization, the daily enemies list, the overwheling of the system so everything is a crisis and collapses, it is clear as day he is following this play book to the letter.    

There are specific phrases in that book Straw that Obama himself uses daily, and the whole book is centered about bringing oabout "Change", although it is never mentioned what it is, so long as it collapses the existing power structure.  Alinsky even says to never really say what "change" means since that will open one up for attack, just keep making more demands and demands on the system in the name of "change" such that the system can't accomodate all the demands and collapses from within.  

Reading this, book, I was disgusted and revolted to see how we are dealing with a extoritionist in 1600 PA Ave. using the same tactics explicitly outlined in this book.  i have another running thread on this.  

Whether its health care, cap & trade, all these other crazy schemes destimned to fail, the goal is to make so many demands on the existing system so that it colapses from within and a new marxist/socialist regime can be put into place.  



again - not one shred of any proof to support your speculation

I have no problem with speculation but stop pretending you've proven anything

you are a lawyer right?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2010, 08:48:21 AM »
lot's of speuclation but not one shred or proof to support the premise of "intentional collapse"

I see no proof of intent andin fact I don't see proof of any of your statements

how about some proof that the stimulus purpose was to pay off unions.   That one should be pretty easy to prove

how about some proof that the intent of the health care legislation was to put private companies out of buseinss (yet at the the same time giving them 30 million new customers many of whom will get federal aid to pay premiums to private companies).  

how about just one statement and then some clear cut proof to support that statement or admit that you're just offering nothing more than pure speculation and conspiracy theories


Straw - the health care bill is a joke.  it contains an unworkable mandate and is shifting millions onto medicaid which will collapse state budgets.  The goal of his health care bill is to give the existing system a few years to collapse and then have everyone begging for a govt takeover.

Everyone knows this thing stinks and is mathmatically impossible.    so why do it?   to collapse the health system and replace it with a govt run program entirely.  

Straw - watcht his -


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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2010, 08:52:51 AM »
again - not one shred of any proof to support your speculation

I have no problem with speculation but stop pretending you've proven anything

you are a lawyer right?

Straw - do you really think Obama is going to admit this?   He know if he does the military will oust him in 5 seconds flat.  He can't say it, and that is the damn point.  You have to look at his actions in total and ask yourself where this all comes from and what is the intent? 


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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2010, 09:08:20 AM »

Everyone knows this thing stinks and is mathmatically impossible.    so why do it?   to collapse the health system and replace it with a govt run program entirely.  


nice claim

where's the proof

if everyone knows it then surely the proof would be easy to find and everyone would agree on it

btw - didn't most of his supporters want a single payer, universal type system


why didn't he support it in 2010?

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2010, 09:09:59 AM »
Straw - do you really think Obama is going to admit this?    He know if he does the military will oust him in 5 seconds flat.  He can't say it, and that is the damn point.  You have to look at his actions in total and ask yourself where this all comes from and what is the intent? 

that's why it's a Conspiracy Theory

don't you think someone other than Obama would need to be in on the conspiracy

who else to you think it part of the plan?

are they are just secret communist or will they be personally enriched in some way when the plan comes to fruition?

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #61 on: October 11, 2010, 09:13:37 AM »
that's why it's a Conspiracy Theory

don't you think someone other than Obama would need to be in on the conspiracy

who else to you think it part of the plan?

are they are just secret communist or will they be personally enriched in some way when the plan comes to fruition?

Straw - there are many factions who have been to dumbed down - so manipulated and brain washed you could have passed literally anything, put a label of "health care" on it, and they would support it. 

BTW - Straw - Obama does not give a damn about his base of voters or people like yourself.  If getting a called an F'ing retard is not enough, i don't know what is.   

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #62 on: October 11, 2010, 09:33:07 AM »
Straw - there are many factions who have been to dumbed down - so manipulated and brain washed you could have passed literally anything, put a label of "health care" on it, and they would support it. 

BTW - Straw - Obama does not give a damn about his base of voters or people like yourself.  If getting a called an F'ing retard is not enough, i don't know what is.   

333 - you're all over the place man

most of Obama's supporters are not happy that he's not following through with the things he talked about on the campaign trail such as the single payer system.

regardging "retards" are you talking about the comment that Rahm allededly made?   Why would anyone care about that?  Why in the world would you think that's significant.  I know you love to take a strand of nothing and fabricate a world wide conspiracy theory but even by your standards that's nutty.


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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2010, 09:37:27 AM »
333 - you're all over the place man

most of Obama's supporters are not happy that he's not following through with the things he talked about on the campaign trail such as the single payer system.

regardging "retards" are you talking about the comment that Rahm allededly made?   Why would anyone care about that?  Why in the world would you think that's significant.  I know you love to take a strand of nothing and fabricate a world wide conspiracy theory but even by your standards that's nutty.



Its significant to me in the sense that Obama and his admn are not giving a damn about what base voters like yourself think on issues.   Whether its DOMA, gitmo, DADT, public option, and a whole host of other issues, you have been told to swallo a bunch of crap and like it.  Not that I support those causes, but I find it very strange how he attacks you guys.   

Now - GWB - really didnt do that to his base until 2005 and look where that got him?   

Something is really strange here Straw, and you have to admit that Obama is not acting like a person who remotely gives a damn about his base voters or those who  approvingly marched to the polls in 2008 to support him. 

 

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2010, 11:02:01 AM »
Its significant to me in the sense that Obama and his admn are not giving a damn about what base voters like yourself think on issues.   Whether its DOMA, gitmo, DADT, public option, and a whole host of other issues, you have been told to swallo a bunch of crap and like it.  Not that I support those causes, but I find it very strange how he attacks you guys.   

Now - GWB - really didnt do that to his base until 2005 and look where that got him?   

Something is really strange here Straw, and you have to admit that Obama is not acting like a person who remotely gives a damn about his base voters or those who  approvingly marched to the polls in 2008 to support him.  

everything is "significant" to you

I find it hard to believe that you really care that Obama doens't care about his base (as you claim).

If he were doing more of what his base really wanted  you'd be screaming even louder about his secret communist agenda

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2010, 11:10:46 AM »
everything is "significant" to you

I find it hard to believe that you really care that Obama doens't care about his base (as you claim).

If he were doing more of what his base really wanted  you'd be screaming even louder about his secret communist agenda

Straw - i can seperate the two.  I read HP, FDL, DU, etc to see what the lib base thinks on stuff. 

I am astonished at how Obama attacks the left, attacks the right, and is not "triangulating" like clinton did in the process. 

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2010, 11:40:44 AM »
The way I see it is A) he is doing what he is doing intentionally and has no business being POTUS or B) he is completely incompetent and has no business being POTUS. Either way it sucks for America
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Soul Crusher

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2010, 05:11:56 AM »
Stanley Kurtz

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October 12, 2010 4:00 A.M.

Obama’s Radical Past
And his connection to socialism isn’t all ancient history, either.




________________________ ________________________ ______________________


On the afternoon of April 1, 1983, Barack Obama, then a senior at Columbia University, made his way into the Great Hall of Manhattan’s Cooper Union to attend a “Socialist Scholars Conference.” There Obama discovered his vocation as a community organizer, as well as a political program to guide him throughout his life.

The conference itself was not a secret, but it held a secret, for it was there that a demoralized and frustrated socialist movement largely set aside strategies of nationalization and turned increasingly to local organizing as a way around the Reagan presidency — and its own spotty reputation. In the early 1980s, America’s socialists discovered what Saul Alinsky had always known: “Community organizing” is a euphemism behind which advocates of a radical vision of America could advance their cause without the bothersome label “socialist” drawing adverse attention to their efforts.


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A loose accusation of his being a socialist has trailed Obama for years, but without real evidence that he saw himself as part of this radical tradition. But the evidence exists, if not in plain sight then in the archives — for example, the archived files of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), which include Obama’s name on a conference registration list. That, along with some misleading admissions in the president’s memoir, Dreams from My Father, makes it clear that Obama attended the 1983 and 1984 Socialist Scholars conferences, and quite possibly the 1985 conclave as well. A detailed account of these conferences (along with many other events from Obama’s radical past) and the evidence for Obama’s attendance at them can be found in my new book, Radical-in-Chief: Barack Obama and the Untold Story of American Socialism.

The 1983 Cooper Union Conference, billed as a tribute to Marx, was precisely when Obama discovered his vocation for community organizing. Obama’s account of his turn to community organizing doesn’t add up. He portrays it as a mere impulse based on little actual knowledge. But that impulse saw Obama through two years of failed job searches. Clearly he had a deeper motivation. The evidence suggests he found it at the Socialist Scholars conferences, where he encountered the entrancing double idea that America could be transformed by a kind of undercover socialism, and that African Americans would be the key figures in advancing community organizing.

The 1983 conference took place in the shadow of Harold Washington’s first race for mayor of Chicago. Washington was not only Obama’s political idol, he was the darling of America’s socialists in the mid-1980s. Washington assembled a “rainbow” coalition of blacks, Hispanics, and left-leaning whites to overturn the power of Chicago’s centrist Democratic machine. Washington worked eagerly and openly with Chicago’s small but influential contingent of socialists, many of whom brought the community organizations and labor unions they led onto the Washington bandwagon.

America’s socialists saw the Harold Washington campaign as a model for their ultimate goal of pushing the Democrats to the left by polarizing the country along class lines. This socialist “realignment” strategy envisioned driving business interests out of a newly radicalized Democratic party. The loss was to be more than made up for through a newly energized coalition of poor and minority voters, led by minority politicians on the model of Harold Washington. The new coalitions would draw on the open or quiet direction of socialist community organizers, from whose ranks new Harold Washingtons would emerge. Groups like ACORN and Project Vote would swell the Democrats with poor and minority voters and, with the country divided by class, socialism would emerge as the natural ideology of the have-nots.

Figures pushing this broader strategy at the 1983 Socialist Scholars Conference included ACORN adviser Frances Fox Piven and organizing theorist Peter Dreier, now a professor at Occidental College and an adviser to Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign. That is to say, Obama’s connection to socialist ideologues didn’t end with his recruitment into the ranks of community organizers. It began there and blossomed into a quarter century of intricate relationships with both on-the-record and in-all-but-name socialists. I’ve spent the last two years in the archives unraveling the connections. Here are a few.

 
By the mid-1980s, James Cone, Jeremiah Wright’s theological mentor, had struck up a close cooperative relationship with the DSA. Cone and a prominent follower spoke at the conferences Obama attended. Shortly after the 1984 conference, Cone joined Reverend Wright in Cuba, where they expressed support for the Cuban social system as a model for the United States. Wright touted his Cuba trips to his congregation for years. Obama would have quickly discovered Wright’s ties to the liberation theologians he’d first learned of at the Socialist Scholars conferences. The connection helps explain Obama’s choice of Wright as his pastor.


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A little-known Chicago training institute for community organizers, the Midwest Academy, is in many ways the key to Barack Obama’s political rise. The Midwest Academy was closely allied to the DSA, which sponsored the Socialist Scholars conferences in New York. Most Midwest Academy leaders remained quiet about their socialism. Inspired by the success of the American Communist “Popular Front,” and by 19th-century American reformers who used populist and communitarian language to achieve socialist ends through incremental legislative means, the Midwest Academy’s leaders advocated a strategy of stealth.

In the ’70s and ’80s, theory was put into action in a series of “populist” coalitions quietly controlled by the socialist leadership of the Midwest Academy and the DSA. The Citizen/Labor Energy Coalition, for example, fought a series of legislative battles against oil and gas companies. Its signature proposal was its call for a public energy corporation to “compete” with private companies.

Officials from the Midwest Academy network trained Obama, supplied him with funds, and got him appointed head of Illinois Project Vote. Years later, Obama sent foundation money to the Midwest Academy. Barack and Michelle Obama ran a project called “Public Allies” that was effectively an extension of the Midwest Academy. Alice Palmer, the Illinois state senator who chose Obama as her successor, was once a high official in the Midwest Academy network. Several Midwest Academy leaders advised Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign. Academy founder Heather Booth is now a key figure in coordinating grassroots support for the president’s budget, health-care, and financial-reform plans.

The leaders of the Midwest Academy were eager to avoid public exposure of their socialism. Yet they trusted Obama enough to put him on the board of their satellite organization, Chicago Public Allies, and to succeed one of their own as state senator.

As I detail at length in Radical-in-Chief, deceptions and glaring omissions about his radical past reach far beyond Obama’s involvement with the Socialist Scholars conferences and the Midwest Academy. Archival documents reveal that Obama lied during the 2008 campaign about his ties to ACORN. New evidence confirms that Obama has hidden the truth about his relationships to Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers. The unknown story of Obama’s deep involvement with a radical group called UNO of Chicago is revealed. The claims of candidate Obama and his mentors that he shunned Saul Alinsky’s confrontational tactics turn out to be a sugary fairy tale. The obfuscating techniques of Obama’s memoir, Dreams from My Father, are exposed.

The pattern of misdirection upon which President Obama’s political career has been built has its roots in the socialist background of community organizing. ACORN, Reverend Wright, and Bill Ayers were all routes into that hidden socialist world, and that is why Obama has had to obscure the truth about these and other elements of his past. More important, the president’s socialist past is still very much alive in the governing philosophy and long-term political strategy of the Obama administration.

As we move into the first national election of the Obama presidency, Americans are confronted with a fateful choice. Either we will continue to be subject to President Obama’s radical and only very partially revealed plans for our future, or we will place a strong check on the president’s ambitions. Knowing the truth about Obama’s past is the best way to safeguard our future.

— Stanley Kurtz is a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and author of Radical-in-Chief: Barack Obama and the Untold Story of American Socialism.

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2010, 06:50:20 AM »
BUMP


Guys what do you think the effects of QE2 and all this crazy money printing schemes are? 

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2010, 07:22:45 AM »
GLOBAL ECONOMY-Obama returns fire after China slams Fed's move
SOURCE: REUTERS



 Tweet ThisShare on LinkedIn Share on Facebook1diggdiggRelated NewsObama: world can't sustain massive trade imbalances
3:09am EST

China ratchets up pressure after Fed move
3:01am EST

Obama: India to be off restricted trade entities list
2:50am EST

UPDATE 1-China ratchets up pressure after U.S. Fed move
2:44am EST

SCENARIOS-Can G20 make FX, trade progress in Seoul and beyond?

Sun, Nov 7 2010Analysis & OpinionWashington Extra – Down but not out

Enter the era of dollar devaluation


Mon Nov 8, 2010 8:41am EST

* Obama says U.S. low growth or no growth danger to world

* China says U.S being irresponsible over QE

* Russia says G20 should have been consulted by Fed

* Trichet: c.bankers insist no currency weakening sought

(Adds Trichet, Geithner)

By Patricia Zengerle and Krittivas Mukherjee

NEW DELHI, Nov 8 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama defended the Federal Reserve's policy of printing dollars on Monday after China and Russia stepped up criticism ahead of this week's Group of 20 meeting.

The G20 summit has been pitched as a chance for leaders of the countries that account for 85 percent of world output to prevent a currency row escalating into a rush to protectionism that could imperil the global recovery. [ID:nSGE6A703T]

But there is little sign of consensus.

The summit has been overshadowed by disagreements over the U.S. Federal Reserve's quantitative easing (QE) policy under which it will print money to buy $600 billion of government bonds, a move that could depress the dollar and cause a potentially destabilising flow of money into emerging economies.

"I will say that the Fed's mandate, my mandate, is to grow our economy. And that's not just good for the United States, that's good for the world as a whole," Obama said during a trip to India.

"And the worst thing that could happen to the world economy, not just ours, is if we end up being stuck with no growth or very limited growth," he said.

European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet said all participants at a meeting of the world's central bankers in Basel, Switzerland had insisted they were not pursuing weak currency policies.

"We're attached to avoiding excessive volatility. It's very counterproductive for global growth and global stability," he told a news conference.


CHINA, RUSSIA ATTACK FED MOVE

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2010, 08:06:47 AM »
New deepwater drilling permits: Zilch

Relief wells were drilled this summer to stop the BP spill, which led to a shut down in Gulf of Mexico deepwater drilling.
 By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney.comNovember 12, 2010: 9:14 AM ET



NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- President Obama lifted his moratorium on deepwater oil drilling nearly a month ago, but the government still hasn't issued any new permits in the Gulf of Mexico.

And most analysts say permits will be slow in coming through 2011.

11Email Print CommentThe Interior Department halted deep water permits shortly after BP's Macondo well blew out last April. The accident resulted in the worst oil spill in U.S. history.

The moratorium was lifted in mid-October after government officials were confident new, stricter rules and regulations were in place.

But no new permits for wells covered under the ban have been issued, according to a spokeswoman for the Interior Department's Bureau of Ocean Energy Management Regulation and Enforcement.

"[BOEMRE director Michael] Bromwich has indicated that he hopes to see some approved by the end of the year but cannot speculate," the spokeswoman said in a statement.

Even if a few permits come through, analysts say it will be a far cry from the amount issued pre-spill.

"We're not holding our breath for a return to business as usual," Whitney Stanco, and energy analyst at the Washington Research Group, wrote in a recent research note. "Despite pressure from Gulf state lawmakers and the oil and gas industry, we believe permitting in 2011 will likely be slower than it has been in recent years."

The moratorium did not affect current oil production in the deepwater Gulf of Mexico, which comes from wells that have already been drilled. Currently, about a quarter of the nation's five-million-barrel-a-day crude output comes from the deepwater Gulf, according to the Government's Energy Information Administration.

But future output could fall if new wells aren't drilled. EIA predicts U.S. output will drop by about 170,000 barrels a day in 2011 thanks to the ban.

With Republicans taking over the House, it's possible that the generally more pro-drilling lawmakers will push the administration to issue more permits.

"You could see hearings in the first quarter of the year," said Kevin Shaw, an energy lawyer at the law firm Mayer Brown. "But it will just be a stick to beat the administration with. I'm not expecting a much different outcome."


0:00 /:59BP's rebound

Indeed, analysts say most lawmakers will be reluctant to push the Interior Department to issue permits faster than it thinks it can safely do so.

"What happened this summer was pretty dramatic," said Joseph Stanislaw, an independent energy adviser at Deloitte & Touche. "I think everyone agrees that people really need to work out the rules."

That's tough news to the people who do the actual drilling.

"What's going on over here is a whole lot of nothing," said Jim Noe, and executive at Hercules offshore, who said they are still having a hard time getting permits even for shallow water wells.

Noe said they haven't had to lay off too many people yet, and have kept workers busy doing maintenance work and other jobs. But the longer the permit drought continues, the harder it gets.

"We're not optimistic we'll be back in business in a meaningful way anytime soon," he said. 


whork25

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2010, 08:11:21 AM »
no tony...bush did everything right economically for 8 years to lead to state of the economy at the culmination of his term...
;D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2010, 11:17:13 AM »
The EPA’s new ozone regulation will damage the US economy for no reason
climatequotes.com ^ | 11/14/10 | Sam

________________________ ________________________ ___________


 There was much talk about the EPA's recent declaration of CO2 as a pollutant, and rightfully so. However, there is something else the EPA is regulating which is also very harmful to the US economy: ozone levels. Not only do they currently regulate ozone levels, but they are about to tighten their regulations on them. Many areas in the US are projected to already be in violation as soon as the new regulations are in place.

The current limit on ozone level is 75 ppb (yes that's parts per BILLION), which was set in 2008 by the Bush administration. The Obama administration has been wanting to change it ever since they got into office, and they were about to in August, but they didn't. Why? Politics. They intentionally waited until after the election to change the regulation. It is expected to change at the end of this year.

It isn't know exactly what level they will change the regulation to. It is expected between 60-70 ppb, but I expect it will be on the low end of that scale because changing the level from 75 to 70 hardly seems worth the amount of time they have invested in it. If the level is set at 60ppb, will that really be a problem? Absolutely. Here are a few articles from different areas in the US warning what is about to come:

Manatee likely to violate new ozone rule

MANATEE — Manatee and Sarasota counties soon could face a big-city problem: excessive smog. The two-county area is likely to violate new federal ozone standards, triggering an extensive — and expensive — effort to improve the region’s air quality, officials say. “I think they’re going to lower the standard to a point where we are going to be in violation,” said Mike Maholtz, a planner with the Sarasota/Manatee Metropolitan Planning Organization....The DEP estimates 14 Florida counties would not meet a 70 parts per billion standard. At 60 parts per billion, that figure jumps to 38 counties.

EPA ozone targets will hurt job creation in Lehigh Valley, New Jersey

Our region’s government health departments and businesses are working hard to reach the current 2008 ozone standard. The oil and gas industries alone spent $175 billion from 1990 to 2010 to meet all of the Clean Air Act emission standards. This is a difficult task because, as in football, the final few yards are the most difficult to achieve.

For the Lehigh Valley and New Jersey, very real economic hardships will result if the EPA implements these new regulations. Twenty-eight Pennsylvania counties and 21 New Jersey counties are expected to have ozone levels above 60 ppb in 2020. EPA’s new 60 ppb standard will force these counties into a “nonattainment” violation of the standard. This will force power plants, energy-intensive industries, trucking firms, commuters and small businesses under Draconian restrictions on their ozone emissions which will cause the destruction of profitability and growth. The EPA literally will be choking the economic life out of these 28 Pennsylvania counties and 21 New Jersey counties and their businesses.


This NYT article has two interesting quotes in it. The first is talking about the potential costs:

According to an analysis by the Manufacturers Alliance, setting the standard at 60 ppb would cost the economy about $1 trillion per year from 2020 to 2030 and would result in the loss of 7.3 million jobs.


$1 trillion a year?!?! That sounds high, but this regulation will put hundreds of counties across the nation into 'nonattainment', which is expensive. But how much does the EPA say it will cost? That brings me to my second quote:

In its proposal last January, EPA said it would set the standard somewhere between 60 and 70 ppb, eliciting the applause of environmental and public health groups. Depending on the standards chosen, the proposed changes would yield between $13 billion and $100 billion in health benefits at a cost of $19 billion to $90 billion, according to EPA estimates.

First of all, when governmental agencies estimate costs they usually are off by at least three-fold, usually five or more. However, what if we did take the numbers simply at face value? Look at the range of uncertainty! The ranges are essentially the same! In other words, the EPA is going to force every county in the US to obey an arbitrary ozone limit in order to obtain health benefits which are essentially the same as the cost imposed.

Why are they lowering the limit at all? Here is a fact sheet about the proposal. They say this:

• On January 6, 2010, EPA proposed to strengthen the national ambient air quality standards (NAAQS) for ground-level ozone, the main component of smog. The proposed revisions are based on scientific evidence about ozone and its effects on people and the environment.
Alright, so they are basing these results on scientific evidence. What evidence is that? Let's see:

• In this reconsideration, EPA is not relying on studies about the health and ecological effects of ozone that have been published since the science assessment to support the 2008 review was completed. However, EPA conducted a provisional assessment of these newer studies and found they do not materially change the conclusions of the Agency's earlier science assessment.

So they aren't even looking at new evidence since the 2008 limits were put in place. They are basing it on the same evidence they had earlier, but they believe that 75ppb wasn't tight enough. However, they believe that 70ppb is tight enough. Obviously FIVE parts in a BILLION is enough of a difference to merit a new draconian rule. Are we really supposed to believe that a decrease of a few parts in a billion will significantly affect the health of our nation? If ozone is that bad (there is no safe background level) why is 60ppm the right number? There will still be asthmatic children harmed at 60ppb, so why not 20ppb or 0ppb? Can someone please inform the EPA about the concept of statistical significance? What I want to know it the margin of error on the ozone monitoring equipment. I bet it is at least 5ppb.

Counties and states across the country should stand up to the EPA and tell them the truth: you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Leave us alone.


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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2010, 07:21:10 AM »



Gerald Celente has a good take on this. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Proof: Obama is Trying to Collapse the Nation
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2010, 10:40:34 AM »
Anyone who doubts me - needs to listen to the Ex-Ceo  of Shell on his meeting with Obama in 2007. 


http://www.wor710.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=5076772