Author Topic: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?  (Read 18708 times)

Wiggs

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #100 on: October 21, 2010, 05:22:37 AM »
Why don't you let people believe in what they want to believe and you go on about your business of not believing whatever it is you don't believe...why shit on someone else?  If their beliefs keep them going, give them hope, who the fuck are you to try and shit on it?
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lovemonkey

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #101 on: October 21, 2010, 05:26:03 AM »
Why don't you let people believe in what they want to believe and you go one about your business of not believing whatever it is you don't believe...why shit on someone else?  If their beliefs keep them going, give them hope, who the fuck are you to try and shit on it?

With that attitude we'd still be stuck in the medieval times.
from incomplete data

Wiggs

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #102 on: October 21, 2010, 05:30:18 AM »
With that attitude we'd still be stuck in the medieval times.

No, it's called live and let live and we're speaking on religion...
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YngiweRhoads

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #103 on: October 21, 2010, 05:33:00 AM »
No, it's called live and let live and we're speaking on religion...

No. Lovemonkey is correct. Religion is still interfering with public education.

This is from today's news.

The problem arises from devout Christians and espousers of creationism, many whose views are that the Constitution does not provide against separation of church and state, that laws protecting against the dominance or proselytizing of one religion as opposed to others infringe upon their right to worship freely. The argument is usually embodied in the abolition of prayer in public schools, which many regard as restrictive, and the teaching of evolution, which many of faith regard as just scientific bunk with little or no more validity than creation myths. And although there is nothing wrong with believing the way she does, there rises a problem when those views are forced upon others who do not necessarily agree with or even want to be exposed to them.

http://yhoo.it/d3Q5IJ
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suckmymuscle

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #104 on: October 21, 2010, 05:45:46 AM »
  This thread seems to be a follow up from this thread:www.getbig.com/boards.index.php?topic=350549.0

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Wiggs

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #105 on: October 21, 2010, 05:49:52 AM »
No. Lovemonkey is correct. Religion is still interfering with public education.

This is from today's news.

The problem arises from devout Christians and espousers of creationism, many whose views are that the Constitution does not provide against separation of church and state, that laws protecting against the dominance or proselytizing of one religion as opposed to others infringe upon their right to worship freely. The argument is usually embodied in the abolition of prayer in public schools, which many regard as restrictive, and the teaching of evolution, which many of faith regard as just scientific bunk with little or no more validity than creation myths. And although there is nothing wrong with believing the way she does, there rises a problem when those views are forced upon others who do not necessarily agree with or even want to be exposed to them.

http://yhoo.it/d3Q5IJ

In cases where women's rights are at stake....(Muslim) or separation of church and state are violated, that, I'm against...But remember this country was founded on Judeo Christian principles...America isn't and IMO shouldn't be a multicultural society.  People used to come to America to assimilate and be American, now the come here and don't assimilate...(not about Mexicans.)
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lovemonkey

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #106 on: October 21, 2010, 05:51:06 AM »
In cases where women's rights are at stake....(Muslim) or separation of church and state are violated, that, I'm against...But remember this country was founded on Judeo Christian principles...America isn't and IMO shouldn't be a multicultural society.  People used to come to America to assimilate and be American, now the come here and don't assimilate...(not about Mexicans.)

Not this shit again.
from incomplete data

suckmymuscle

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #107 on: October 21, 2010, 05:53:06 AM »
Because awareness can neither be explained nor reproduced by natural science.

  How do you define awareness? Does a bee have awareness? If you answer positive, then we have machines programmed to do more complex things than a living creature can. It might take some time for us to reproduce Human consciousness but eventually we will since our consciousness is nothing more than data-processing in the brain and we already have machines capable of data processing(computers). Now, we don't know if consciousness is the result of some specific pattern of information that only organic computers(brains) can reproduce or if it is simply the result of a different information-processing architecture, but we will eventuually figure it out.

Quote
A human being is an ape only in one aspect: biologically.

  What other aspect is there? Until someone shows the existence of something other that must be present for the electro-chemical firings of neurons to yield consciousness, then we must a priori assume that the electro-chemical firings is all there is to it.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Wiggs

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #108 on: October 21, 2010, 05:53:11 AM »
Not this shit again.

I didn't read the other pages of this thread so what page should I read?
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YngiweRhoads

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #109 on: October 21, 2010, 05:55:05 AM »
In cases where women's rights are at stake....(Muslim) or separation of church and state are violated, that, I'm against...But remember this country was founded on Judeo Christian principles...America isn't and IMO shouldn't be a multicultural society.  People used to come to America to assimilate and be American, now the come here and don't assimilate...(not about Mexicans.)
'
You're defending the 'right' to be miseducated?

Wow.

And to quote LM...not this shit again.
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Wiggs

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #110 on: October 21, 2010, 05:56:58 AM »
'
You're defending the 'right' to be miseducated?

Wow.

And to quote LM...not this shit again.

What exactly am I being "miseducated" on?
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YngiweRhoads

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #111 on: October 21, 2010, 06:05:40 AM »
What exactly am I being "miseducated" on?

Defending this? --->  http://yhoo.it/d3Q5IJ
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YngiweRhoads

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #112 on: October 21, 2010, 06:07:08 AM »
 How do you define awareness? Does a bee have awareness? If you answer positive, then we have machines programmed to do more complex things than a living creature can. It might take some time for us to reproduce Human consciousness but eventually we will since our consciousness is nothing more than data-processing in the brain and we already have machines capable of data processing(computers). Now, we don't know if consciousness is the result of some specific pattern of information that only organic computers(brains) can reproduce or if it is simply the result of a different information-processing architecture, but we will eventuually figure it out.

  What other aspect is there? Until someone shows the existence of something other that must be present for the electro-chemical firings of neurons to yield consciousness, then we must a priori assume that the electro-chemical firings is all there is to it.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

You'll like this ---> http://bigthink.com/ideas/24567
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Wiggs

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #113 on: October 21, 2010, 06:12:15 AM »
Defending this? --->  http://yhoo.it/d3Q5IJ


I saw that as it happened and I know that witch is a dingbat...
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YngiweRhoads

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #114 on: October 21, 2010, 06:13:39 AM »
I saw that as it happened and I know that witch is a dingbat...

 :)

There's many more where she came from, with a similar agenda, unfortunately.
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Butterbean

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #115 on: October 21, 2010, 11:08:59 AM »
You insist on using this term 'macro'. Most scientists simply call it evolution.



Evolution is the non-random process of genetic selection based on randomly generated mutations.

Finally got to watch it!  Thanks for the link D, but can you post something on Macro Evolution?  This vid presented claims for Micro Evolution.  

And maybe most scientists simply call both Micro and Macro ....Evolution..but they are not the same....I don't think any "creationists" have any prob. w/micro evolution.   So can you please post something you feel is pretty good re: Macro?  
R

Butterbean

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #116 on: October 21, 2010, 11:11:49 AM »
? and god created earth BEFORE light? so he couldnt see what he was doing while creating earth??  

 ;D
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Top Dog

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #117 on: October 21, 2010, 11:32:10 AM »
I love how all the geniuses who sit at home and post on a bodybuilding website have all the answers with regard to our existence. And anyone who disagrees with them is stupid.  ::)

wavelength

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #118 on: October 21, 2010, 11:51:32 AM »
aha!!!    wavelength we must have a discussion sometime.
humans are 100% reducable to biology, and so is our mind reducable to the physiology of our brains.

That's the opinion of scientific positivists. However, it is a statement which can never be founded in science. It is a philosophical statement of absolute truth, something science by definition can not come up with. And it's false, easily disproven by logic alone.

your body, your brain, influences your mind. and your mind influences your brain, your body.

That's the scientific view on things, therefore it is restricted to a certain scientific model. Model means reduction.

that is the one reason why complete empiricism can never fully explain us. we control our destiny, at least to some extent, completely outside of our sensory experience. that is to say, we can, at times, make certain decisions that go completely against everything we have ever been taught by experience... something a purely physical, purely "self sustaining" organism would never be capable of, let alone 'desire' to do.

You contradict yourself here. Something like that is not possible with a biomechanical machine (which is the scientific model of a human being).

Listen to Carl Sagan.

Carl Sagan is a terrible philosopher and he doesn't even realize that his ramblings have nothing to do with pure science.

tbombz

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #119 on: October 21, 2010, 12:12:06 PM »
That's the opinion of scientific positivists. However, it is a statement which can never be founded in science. It is a philosophical statement of absolute truth, something science by definition can not come up with. And it's false, easily disproven by logic alone.

yes, nothing can ever be proven completely true. depsite maybe the fact that you, as an individual, exist. "i think therefore i am" to what extent you exist is even up for debate. i assume you are refering to the fcat that neither induction nor deduction are valid ways of finding absolute truth. however, you are being very arrogant and unwise to assume that the statement will never be able to be founded in science. your just merely speculating.


You contradict yourself here. Something like that is not possible with a biomechanical machine (which is the scientific model of a human being).

i didnt contradict myself. i am merely highlighting an apparant contradiction in the reality of human experience. which is that we are completely reducable to material (the physiology of our brians), but we are not completely bound to act in ways that correspond with the physical.

wavelength

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #120 on: October 21, 2010, 12:24:44 PM »
yes, nothing can ever be proven completely true. depsite maybe the fact that you, as an individual, exist. "i think therefore i am" to what extent you exist is even up for debate. i assume you are refering to the fcat that neither induction nor deduction are valid ways of finding absolute truth. however, you are being very arrogant and unwise to assume that the statement will never be able to be founded in science. your just merely speculating.

I am referring to the fact that science cannot make the claim that the reduction it must make of the world (by definition of science alone) in order to describe it, suddenly can be lifted.

A scientific positivist claims that all there is to the world is its scientific aspect as in "humans are 100% reducable to biology, and so is our mind reducable to the physiology of our brains". I am not speculating that this statement can never be founded in science, it is a question of definition (of science itself) and logic.

i didnt contradict myself. i am merely highlighting an apparant contradiction in the reality of human experience. which is that we are completely reducable to material (the physiology of our brians), but we are not completely bound to act in ways that correspond with the physical.

If we are completely reducable to material, we are passively operating machines. We don't "act" at all if we are machines, the machine "acts" us. "We" do not even exist in such a case.

Deicide

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #121 on: October 21, 2010, 01:33:35 PM »
Finally got to watch it!  Thanks for the link D, but can you post something on Macro Evolution?  This vid presented claims for Micro Evolution.  

And maybe most scientists simply call both Micro and Macro ....Evolution..but they are not the same....I don't think any "creationists" have any prob. w/micro evolution.   So can you please post something you feel is pretty good re: Macro?  

I think you are playing with words; the changes that took place in those videos took place over the course of millions of years.

What exactly do you want? How single celled organism became elephants?

And for once, why don't you tell us what you think happened? Genesis? or something else? how did we end up with all this living diversity?
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Deicide

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #122 on: October 21, 2010, 01:34:18 PM »
I am referring to the fact that science cannot make the claim that the reduction it must make of the world (by definition of science alone) in order to describe it, suddenly can be lifted.

A scientific positivist claims that all there is to the world is its scientific aspect as in "humans are 100% reducable to biology, and so is our mind reducable to the physiology of our brains". I am not speculating that this statement can never be founded in science, it is a question of definition (of science itself) and logic.

If we are completely reducable to material, we are passively operating machines. We don't "act" at all if we are machines, the machine "acts" us. "We" do not even exist in such a case.

Maybe neuroscience will one day show that to be the case.
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Butterbean

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #123 on: October 21, 2010, 01:48:03 PM »

I think you are playing with words; the changes that took place in those videos took place over the course of millions of years.


They talk about the modern turtle/flatfish/etc. and go back to a fossil of a primitive turtle/flatfish etc.

I think you are playing with words; the changes that took place in those videos took place over the course of millions of years.

What exactly do you want? How single celled organism became elephants?

And for once, why don't you tell us what you think happened? Genesis? or something else? how did we end up with all this living diversity?

For once?  I thought you knew I believe God created life, "each after their own kind."  

And yes, what I would like to see is a link or vid or whatever that you feel best represents proof of one species turning into another.
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CigaretteMan

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Re: Why do uneducated Christians 'dispute' 'macroevolution'?
« Reply #124 on: October 21, 2010, 02:58:01 PM »
 How do you define awareness? Does a bee have awareness? If you answer positive, then we have machines programmed to do more complex things than a living creature can. It might take some time for us to reproduce Human consciousness but eventually we will since our consciousness is nothing more than data-processing in the brain and we already have machines capable of data processing(computers). Now, we don't know if consciousness is the result of some specific pattern of information that only organic computers(brains) can reproduce or if it is simply the result of a different information-processing architecture, but we will eventuually figure it out.

  What other aspect is there? Until someone shows the existence of something other that must be present for the electro-chemical firings of neurons to yield consciousness, then we must a priori assume that the electro-chemical firings is all there is to it.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  Outstanding post.