Author Topic: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization  (Read 5613 times)

George Whorewell

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Couldn't have said it better myself-- From today's NY Daily News


Tyler Clementi, Rutgers freshman who committed suicide after gay bullying, could have fought back
By Elie Mystal

Thursday, October 21st 2010, 4:00 AM


In the wake of the suicide of Tyler Clementi (above) - the Rutgers student who jumped off the George Washington Bridge after his gay hookup was broadcast on the Web by his roommate - there's been a lot of talk about the proper punishment for bullies.

We need tougher laws against mean behavior, many people say. Some have gone so far as to argue that we should throw kids into jail for bullying each other, especially if the tormentors are making fun of a kid's sexual orientation.

If we don't soon have stricter punishment of bullies and more institutional control over mean schoolchildren, the argument goes, we'll see more hurt teenagers taking their own lives.

This argument is well meaning but ultimately dangerous. Victimization logic hobbles young people - gay or otherwise - and helps no one. Instead of telling our kids that they need to keep their heads held high and stand up for themselves, we're telling them to run to the justice system whenever somebody insults them with an "ouchy" word.

If they had set the "Karate Kid" remake in America, Mr. Miyagi would have been a trial lawyer who taught Daniel-san how to sue Cobra Kai into bankruptcy.

We need to teach kids effective coping mechanisms to deal with embarrassment and humiliation - perhaps even to, dare I say, fight back - instead of fostering a culture of hurt feelings and massive overreactions.

If anything, gay youths need these self-reliant coping mechanisms more than their friends. Because sadly, far too often, gay kids can't run home to their (homophobic, idiot) parents or their (overworked, desensitized) schoolteachers.

And those calling for tougher official punishment are missing another point. These suicides aren't the result of a few mean kids who just now decided it'd be fun to torment gay peers. They're the symptom of a complex youth culture obsessed with its own navel and how many friends "like" their latest Facebook status update. Throwing a few mean kids in jail isn't going to change that culture one bit.

What's going to change it are more and more vulnerable kids who start standing up to the jerks.

Because, news flash, kids are mean. Brutally mean. Have you ever actually sat and listened to one who hasn't been sanitized by the good people at Disney? Yes, they will make fun of the gay kid. Also on their "hit list": the effeminate kid, the dumb jock, the easy girl, the prudish girl, the fat kid, the thin kid, the smart kid, the developmentally disabled kid, the poor kid, the rich ponce, the kid who is so dark other black kids make fun of him, the kid who is so pale he gets sunburned if he comes out to play.

They'll make fun of me, they'll make fun of you - and then they'll get to our mothers.

Are we going to throw them all in jail? Or only the ones whose victims commit suicide?

In my neighborhood in Queens, if somebody made fun of you, you gave as good as you got. Or you punched the kid in the mouth. That's right, there was a time when standing up for yourself solved many schoolyard problems. And if you tell me that standing up for yourself is the exclusive province of "macho" straight males, I'll invite you over to hang out with some of my gay friends and my wife and her buddies so you can learn something about the world you live in.

I'm not saying poor Tyler Clementi isn't to be mourned. To the contrary, and the kids who mistreated him are miscreants. But we don't throw every miscreant in jail. If we want fewer young people to follow in Tyler's footsteps, we ought to spend much less time passing laws and incarcerating mean schoolkids and much more time teaching their targets how to deal with it.

If you are being bullied, laugh it off, ignore it or fight back. Just don't kill yourself. Whatever you are going through, it's entirely survivable.

Mystal is an editor at Above the Law, a legal blog.

 



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/10/21/2010-10-21_tyler_clementi_rutgers_freshman_who_committed_suicide_after_gay_bullying_could_h.html#ixzz1310olC32

Wiggs

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Great, just what we need more violence....You wouldn't say that if one these kids blew one these bullies heads off, which, in my mind would suit the bully right.
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Nails

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I wanna see the stats of OPENLY GAY soldiers once the Dont ask dont tell policy goes out the window, i bet there is no more then .5% soldiers enlisted today,

Wiggs

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I wanna see the stats of OPENLY GAY soldiers once the Dont ask dont tell policy goes out the window, i bet there is no more then .5% soldiers enlisted today,

Correct...When I was in in my 10 years we knew who most of them were and didn't give a fuck...Only the rednecks and black thugs made a big deal.
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Nails

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Correct...When I was in in my 10 years we knew who most of them were and didn't give a fuck...Only the rednecks and black thugs made a big deal.

What would you say are the percentage wiggs?
1 in 10 ? 1 in 50? 1 in 100?


Wiggs

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What would you say are the percentage wiggs?
1 in 10 ? 1 in 50? 1 in 100?



Hard to put a number on it because you have the obvious gay people, and then you have the undercover...I can't account for the undercover.
For obvious ones I'd say 1:50...I had two good buddies that I knew were gay but we never talked about it...1 guy, 1 girl.

I wasn't always as tolerant...I grew up in the 80s and 90s and it was common and still is to put someone down by questioning their sexuality...That's probably the worst insult for a hetero man.  While I'm not perfect I try not to do it...Actually, I don't do it in real life, only on this board...It gets old and while I'm a christian, I don't believe the churches view on homosexuality...Actually the churches are pretty rough in their views on homosexuality...While I still believe it is a genetic mutation and it provides no advantage to society...I have no problems with them and what they do....The only problem I do have is that it has crept in the American society, media etc...I guess eventually I'll get used to it.
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It's weird how it's always the young people who are encouraged to "fight back". Just imagine if it were some middle aged man, pushed around and robbed by thugs every day. What the fuck is he going to do other than go to police and sue and try to get justice? Fuck. It's like it's wild West for the younger people, I guess it's easy to say if you are an old man and not in that situation.

The Showstoppa

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i thought the solution was for everbody to wear purple?

Nails

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i thought the solution was for everbody to wear purple?

And tomorrow everyone in america will wear Turbans for the musliums getting bullied in the media

The Showstoppa

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And tomorrow everyone in america will wear Turbans for the musliums getting bullied in the media

I use them for toilet paper, does that count?

Master Blaster

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2010, 12:48:41 PM »

pluck

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2010, 12:51:16 PM »
Great, just what we need more violence....You wouldn't say that if one these kids blew one these bullies heads off, which, in my mind would suit the bully right.

No, you're taking this to the extreme. Nobody is advocating killing your bully. WTF is wrong with you?

Up until junior high I was one of the bigger kids in my class. Couple of my friends used to make fun of this nerdy kid who was into magic the gathering playing cards. Calling him all the typical names ...fag, homo, queer, freak ...etc. Sometimes we used to shove and push him in the hallway when there were a lot of people around and make it seem like it was someone else that did it.

Anyways, one day I shoved him and he just fucking lost it. He threw his books on the floor and started yelling and screaming at me ...basically caused a huge scene and caught me off guard. Ever since that day I was embarassed, I never did or say anything to the guy.

Point being is, like my old man used to say to me. If anyone fucks with you, give it back to them twice as bad.

Bullies are just people who have never been put into their place. All it takes is just once instance of embarassment, slap on the mouth...etc to make it stop.

The whole b.s. of calling the cops or going to snitch to the teacher or your parents is just going to make you look like a bigger pusssy.

George Whorewell

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2010, 01:24:01 PM »
What the fuck is wrong with some of you? A lot of beta males in this thread.

I got bullied, I bullied weaker kids, I didn't kill anybody and nobody killed me. 99.9% of the worlds population has managed to follow that cycle without a hitch since the beginning of time. You can talk back, fight, tell the teacher, tell your parents, ignore it, or any other number of things. Nobody said it's appropriate to kill another human being.  How is it going to help children when they  become adults and enter the real world when their entire lives they have been taught to run to the police or get a lawyer whenever someone hurts their feelings?

If your son or daughter was getting made fun of, would you call 911, or would you teach them to defend themselves?

The Showstoppa

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2010, 01:27:36 PM »
What the fuck is wrong with some of you? A lot of beta males in this thread.

I got bullied, I bullied weaker kids, I didn't kill anybody and nobody killed me. 99.9% of the worlds population has managed to follow that cycle without a hitch since the beginning of time. You can talk back, fight, tell the teacher, tell your parents, ignore it, or any other number of things. Nobody said it's appropriate to kill another human being.  How is it going to help children when they  become adults and enter the real world when their entire lives they have been taught to run to the police or get a lawyer whenever someone hurts their feelings? If your son or daughter was getting made fun of, would you call 911, or would you teach them to defend themselves?

But what would the democrat party/liberals do for new members?  ;D

Parker

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2010, 01:46:19 PM »
It's weird how it's always the young people who are encouraged to "fight back". Just imagine if it were some middle aged man, pushed around and robbed by thugs every day. What the fuck is he going to do other than go to police and sue and try to get justice? Fuck. It's like it's wild West for the younger people, I guess it's easy to say if you are an old man and not in that situation.
You are a idiot to not see the difference. They are talking about bullying, not being robbed...being robbed is a felony, call the police, or in some states shoot the mofo.

Today's kids are too overly sensitive, and it results in adults who cannot cope with "problems" with others. They quickly go run and tell, instead of handling it themselves.
I've had bullies, and I had to handle it, it allows one to grow, and once you've dealt with one scenario, you can deal with similar..

Wiggs

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2010, 01:47:38 PM »
Yes but George and Pluck these kids today for whatever reason don't give a fuck...It's not like when I went to school in the 80's and 90s...These fucks elevate shit really quick...Don't believe me?  Look at the school shootings the past 12 years and now these kids killing themselves...This is why we can't play by the rules we played by.
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The Showstoppa

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2010, 01:49:40 PM »
Yes but George and Pluck these kids today for whatever reason don't give a fuck...It's not like when I went to school in the 80's and 90s...These fucks elevate shit really quick...Don't believe me?  Look at the school shootings the past 12 years and now these kids killing themselves...This is why we can't play by the rules we played by.

There is some truth there.  can you imagine if one of these twinks "stood up" to a group of thugs?  In the past they might have just slapped him around a bit, but now to save face they would probably beat him to death, or if he did actually kick one of their asses, they would probably shoot him.

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2010, 01:50:20 PM »
When I was a kid and I was bullied, I got the "go tell a teacher" or whatever and that shit doesn't work!


I promised myself when I have kids, I would tell them that if they were ever bullied to fight back, if someone hits you then hit them back twice as hard, and let me deal with the teacher!


Great post!

The Showstoppa

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 01:53:38 PM »
When I was a kid and I was bullied, I got the "go tell a teacher" or whatever and that shit doesn't work!


I promised myself when I have kids, I would tell them that if they were ever bullied to fight back, if someone hits you then hit them back twice as hard, and let me deal with the teacher!


Great post!

And to do it at a young age.  Not sure how big the area you are planning on kids is, but the earlier they get past that stuff, the easier it makes the rest of school.  If that makes sense...

Wiggs

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2010, 01:54:11 PM »
There is some truth there.  can you imagine if one of these twinks "stood up" to a group of thugs?  In the past they might have just slapped him around a bit, but now to save face they would probably beat him to death, or if he did actually kick one of their asses, they would probably shoot him.

Exactly...These kids are fucking nuts...very unpredictable...This is why you can't use violence as the answer...that worked a generation ago.
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Master Blaster

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2010, 01:54:40 PM »
There is some truth there.  can you imagine if one of these twinks "stood up" to a group of thugs?  In the past they might have just slapped him around a bit, but now to save face they would probably beat him to death, or if he did actually kick one of their asses, they would probably shoot him.

They should use magic to defend themselves! Dress all in black and cast some fucking spellz, bitches!

2d6 lightning blast to the FUCKING FACE!


Wiggs

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2010, 01:57:46 PM »
By the way I have been bullied and I have bullied...I was bullied from age 8-13 then when I hit puberty and became a beast ;D I bullied....I regret it severely.
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The Showstoppa

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2010, 02:02:33 PM »
Exactly...These kids are fucking nuts...very unpredictable...This is why you can't use violence as the answer...that worked a generation ago.


And at a very young age, like I mentioned to ACH.  To advise a hs kid to fight now is very risky.

The Showstoppa

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2010, 02:03:35 PM »
They should use magic to defend themselves! Dress all in black and cast some fucking spellz, bitches!

2d6 lightning blast to the FUCKING FACE!



Here is exhibit A of kids who NEED to be bullied to straighten their goofy asses out before its too late.

Master Blaster

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Re: The solution to this school bullying bs and the politics of victimization
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2010, 02:05:14 PM »
Here is exhibit A of kids who NEED to be bullied to straighten their goofy asses out before its too late.

It IS too late.

Hope that helps.