Author Topic: What Must Republicans Do Now?  (Read 3376 times)

Skip8282

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 12:27:08 PM »

Charles Krauthammer:GOP Snags De Facto Control of Senate

Republicans have won "de facto control" of the U.S. Senate, syndicated columnist and Fox News commentator Charles Krauthammer declared early this morning.

The message voters delivered on Election Night was so strong, Krauthammer said, that Senate Democrats will continue to distance themselves from President Barack Obama's policies for fear of political repercussions.





Yes, I read Krauthammer's article when it was posted - it doesn't say repeal is possible and it's still just opinion.

Now, rather that selectively quoting Krauthammer, let's look at how many times he's indicated repeal is not a viable option:


"Over the next two years, Republicans will not be able to pass anything of importance to them - such as repealing Obamacare - because of the presidential veto."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/7271334.html


"Charles Krauthammer is on record not only warning the huge debts that are coming but that this leviathan that takes over 1/6 of the economy will never be repealed."

http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com/2010/03/charles-krauthammer-heatlhcare-law-will.html


"Charles Krauthammer said on Fox News tonight that he does not believe the ObamaCare bill, just approved 219 to 212 in the U.S. House, will ever be repealed."

http://conservativeamerican.org/media/krauthammer-dont-count-on-repeal/






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In 2012, there will be 21 Democrat senators up for re-election and only 10 Republicans. There are also two Independents that caucus with the Democrats.

Here are a few:
Akaka, Daniel K. (D-HI)
Bingaman, Jeff (D-NM)
Brown, Sherrod (D-OH)
Cantwell, Maria (D-WA)
Cardin, Benjamin L. (D-MD)
Carper, Thomas R. (D-DE)
Casey, Robert P., Jr. (D-PA)
Conrad, Kent (D-ND)
Goodwin, Carte P. (D-WV)
Klobuchar, Amy (D-MN)
Kohl, Herb (D-WI)
McCaskill, Claire (D-MO)
Menendez, Robert (D-NJ)
Nelson, Ben (D-NE)
Nelson, Bill (D-FL)
Stabenow, Debbie (D-MI)
Tester, Jon (D-MT)
Webb, Jim (D-VA)



I'm not debating the fact that Republicans can bring pressure, but rather the realities of a repeal.  Let's take the Senate.  Harkin chairs the committee on Health Education Labor & Pensions.  He's already stated that he won't allow a repeal bill to move through.  Are they going to try and push it through finance?  Still Democrat controlled.  Again, there are practical realities to pushing repeal that cannot be overcome by ideological beliefs.


The remainder of your post is just bashing the healthcare bill and I think you're well aware I didn't support it.  Although I've pointed out there are good things in it, when you balance the bill with everything bad, it's a monstrosity.  But, to me repeal is a waste of time and efforts would be better spent on amending the bill.

I also wouldn't agree with defunding the bill, except as a last resort.  Defunding it only serves as a delay and should the Dems ever regain power, they won't have to do jackshit but appropriate funds. 







James

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 12:42:19 PM »


Yes, I read Krauthammer's article when it was posted - it doesn't say repeal is possible and it's still just opinion.

Now, rather that selectively quoting Krauthammer, let's look at how many times he's indicated repeal is not a viable option:


"Over the next two years, Republicans will not be able to pass anything of importance to them - such as repealing Obamacare - because of the presidential veto."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/7271334.html


"Charles Krauthammer is on record not only warning the huge debts that are coming but that this leviathan that takes over 1/6 of the economy will never be repealed."

http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com/2010/03/charles-krauthammer-heatlhcare-law-will.html


"Charles Krauthammer said on Fox News tonight that he does not believe the ObamaCare bill, just approved 219 to 212 in the U.S. House, will ever be repealed."

http://conservativeamerican.org/media/krauthammer-dont-count-on-repeal/








I'm not debating the fact that Republicans can bring pressure, but rather the realities of a repeal.  Let's take the Senate.  Harkin chairs the committee on Health Education Labor & Pensions.  He's already stated that he won't allow a repeal bill to move through.  Are they going to try and push it through finance?  Still Democrat controlled.  Again, there are practical realities to pushing repeal that cannot be overcome by ideological beliefs.


The remainder of your post is just bashing the healthcare bill and I think you're well aware I didn't support it.  Although I've pointed out there are good things in it, when you balance the bill with everything bad, it's a monstrosity.  But, to me repeal is a waste of time and efforts would be better spent on amending the bill.

I also wouldn't agree with defunding the bill, except as a last resort.  Defunding it only serves as a delay and should the Dems ever regain power, they won't have to do jackshit but appropriate funds.  









Where did I or anyone else on here say that Obama wouldn't veto a repeal of his Bill?  and where did I or anyone else say it would (repealed) happen in the next 2 years ?

What I, 3333 and others have said is it needs to be repealed, and the House and possibly the Senate need to to pass a Bill Repealing Obamacare, and make Obama veto it, time after time if necessary (have it on record) and in the process do everything to stop it, by defunding it, and etc.. Attack it from all sides. Then if needed, make the 2012 election about Obamacare, as I can assure you that come 2012, even more people will be against this POS Bill.

Boehner: "Trust me. I'm Going To Make Sure This H'care Bill Is Never, Ever, Ever Implemented"


Skip8282

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2010, 01:02:57 PM »

Where did I or anyone on here say that Obama wouldn't veto a repeal of his Bill?  and where did I or anyone else say it would (repealed) happen in the next 2 years ?

What I, 3333 and others have said is it needs to be repealed, and the House and possibly the Senate to to pass a Bill Repealing Obamacare, and make Obama veto it, time after time if necessary, and in the process do everything to stop it, by defending it, and etc.. Attack it from all sides. 

Yes, and I'm arguing that rather than waste time with something that is exceptionally unlikely, the Republicans focus their efforts on amending the bill, something far more likely to accomplish.  Barry has done enough embarassing shit to hammer the hell out of him in 2012.  Right now the Republicans can make significant in-roads into changing the crap in this bill.



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Boehner: "Trust me. I'm Going To Make Sure This H'care Bill Is Never, Ever, Ever Implemented"




Boehner kept glossing over exactly what I'm arguing as the reporter asked him why keep wasting time on repeal.  Maybe it will score points, IDK.  But, his efforts to change the bill, IMO, are going to be a much better use of time, money, and resources.

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2010, 01:06:23 PM »
He might be banking on some of the lawsuits succeeding on the mandate portion of thisd mess. 

James

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2010, 01:11:37 PM »
Quote
Yes, and I'm arguing that rather than waste time with something that is exceptionally unlikely, the Republicans focus their efforts on amending the bill, something far more likely to accomplish.  Barry has done enough embarassing shit to hammer the hell out of him in 2012.

And I am saying that the entire POS Bill needs to be eventually thrown in the trash, even if that means defunding it until 2012, and then having the next President sign the Repeal Bill sent to him (or her)  And the majority of people who voted Republican last Tuesday agree.

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 Right now the Republicans can make significant in-roads into changing the crap in this bill.

Saying "crap in this bill" is like putting 2 slices of bread on top of a pile of elephant shit, and calling it a sandwich. When the majority of a Bill is crap, you don't say 'crap in this Bill", you say the Bill is crap!  Just as I stated earlier, when a car is wrecked so bad that it is totaled, you don't rebuild the car because it still has good side mirror, back seat and the carpet is good.

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Boehner kept glossing over exactly what I'm arguing as the reporter asked him why keep wasting time on repeal.  Maybe it will score points, IDK.  But, his efforts to change the bill, IMO, are going to be a much better use of time, money, and resources.

He wasn't glossing over anything, he flat out stated that this Bill will ruin our Health Care, and our Economy as well. and needs to be done away with (Repealed) and start over. And in the mean time, he is "Going To Make Sure This H'care Bill Is Never, Ever, Ever Implemented"

Skip8282

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2010, 02:47:54 PM »
And I am saying that the entire POS Bill needs to be eventually thrown in the trash, even if that means defunding it until 2012, and then having the next President sign the Repeal Bill sent to him (or her)  And the majority of people who voted Republican last Tuesday agree.


Fair enough


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Saying "crap in the bill" is like putting 2 slices of bread on top of a pile of elephant shit, and calling it a sandwich. When the majority of a Bill is crap, you don't say 'crap in the Bill", you say the Bill is crap!  Just as I stated earlier, when a car is wrecked so bad that it is totaled, you don't rebuild the car because it still has good side mirror, back seat and the carpet is still good.


I won't split hairs on the terminology - "the bill is crap" is fine with me.  But, since I'm advocating making changes to the bill as opposed to repeal, it makes little sense to scrap things such as the medicare and medicaid anti-fraud sections.  Or, to use your analogy - If we have to rebuild the car, let's not throw away the good side mirror, good back seat, and good carpet.



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He wasn't glossing over anything, he flat out stated that this Bill will ruin our Health Care, and our Economy as well. and needs to be done away with (Repealed) and start over. And in the mean time, he is "Going To Make Sure This H'care Bill Is Never, Ever, Ever Implemented"


He repeated the talking points but did not answer.  Like I said, I think it will score symbolic points with the conservative base, but as a practical reality they should focus on change with defunding as a last resort if they can't get things changed.

James

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2010, 03:11:14 PM »

Fair enough



I won't split hairs on the terminology - "the bill is crap" is fine with me.  But, since I'm advocating making changes to the bill as opposed to repeal, it makes little sense to scrap things such as the medicare and medicaid anti-fraud sections.  Or, to use your analogy - If we have to rebuild the car, let's not throw away the good side mirror, good back seat, and good carpet.



He repeated the talking points but did not answer.  Like I said, I think it will score symbolic points with the conservative base, but as a practical reality they should focus on change with defunding as a last resort if they can't get things changed.


If we both agree the Bill is crap, then in order for it not to be crap, the majority of it would have to me removed (amended) and do you really think Obama wound agree to removing the majority of his Bill?  The answer is no!  He might agree to removing a few things at most, so lets say the Republicans go along with removing a few things, that would also mean they would have to sign off (agree) to everything else, which means they would agree to funding the other 90% of it, which still makes it crap! It is better to do whatever is necessary to keep the Bill from ever being Implemented (including defunding it) and then repeal it with the next president in 2 years, and then start over, than to be forced to agree to, and to fund something that has only had 10% of the shit taken out. That is what they ran on (promised) in this last election, and that is what they should follow through with. enough said. Medicare Medigap Medicare Supplement News


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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2010, 05:19:12 PM »

START LOOKING FOR SPENDING CUTS-START WITH CUTTING GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES AND DEPARTMENTS.

That may include severly down sizing of the military and the funding the military industry.

You really think that is a good idea?
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Kazan

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2010, 05:55:12 PM »
That may include severly down sizing of the military and the funding the military industry.

You really think that is a good idea?

There is a ton of dead weight that can be cut before they even start thinking about the military, will they my guess is no. Typical government response is to cut things like police and firemen before they get rid of the useless fuckers taking up space and collecting a tax payer funded paycheck.
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Hedgehog

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2010, 06:31:45 PM »
There is a ton of dead weight that can be cut before they even start thinking about the military, will they my guess is no. Typical government response is to cut things like police and firemen before they get rid of the useless fuckers taking up space and collecting a tax payer funded paycheck.

Both public and private sector should perhaps take notes from what this man wrote about building an efficient bureaucracy.

*Decentralise small decisions. Centralise the big ones.
*Recruit competence, not Nepotism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2010, 06:36:31 PM »
What must republicans do now?
1. Start planning the next couple wars for after Obama loses, dems will go along with it anyway.
2. Hook up all corporate interests, dems will go along with it anyway.
3. Keep America divided so the above two things continue on without a hitch.

Kazan

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2010, 06:51:08 PM »
What must republicans do now?
1. Start planning the next couple wars for after Obama loses, dems will go along with it anyway.
2. Hook up all corporate interests, dems will go along with it anyway.
3. Keep America divided so the above two things continue on without a hitch.


That in itself is the problem, I don't remember people being so divided when we thought we were all Americans. Now everyone and their brother seems to be <insert nationality here>-Americans.

As far as wars the Dems are just as responsible for America being at war as Repubs.
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2010, 06:59:06 PM »
That in itself is the problem, I don't remember people being so divided when we thought we were all Americans. Now everyone and their brother seems to be <insert nationality here>-Americans.

As far as wars the Dems are just as responsible for America being at war as Repubs.
hense the part above where I said dems will just go along with it anyway, they pretty much do.

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2010, 07:23:33 PM »
hense the part above where I said dems will just go along with it anyway, they pretty much do.
\

Its because they all think (politicians in DC) they are the "ruling class".
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Soul Crusher

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2010, 08:38:52 PM »
What must republicans do now?
1. Start planning the next couple wars for after Obama loses, dems will go along with it anyway.
2. Hook up all corporate interests, dems will go along with it anyway.
3. Keep America divided so the above two things continue on without a hitch.


 ;D

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2010, 09:47:24 PM »
Some of my opinions.  What are yours?   8)



No crimes or ethics violations - and if there are, the leadership deals with them swiftly and severly.
Stop trying to repeal healthcare.  Won't happen.  Introduce legislation to either nullify or correct the bad parts.
At least try to work with Barry on as many issues as possible.
Don't compromise on their core values, campaign issues, etc.
Get the economy going (Could be a double-edged sword, because Obama will get credit).
Watch their mouths at all times, especially around cameras.
Bend over backwards to stick to your campaign promises.


Anyone that doesn't fight to repeal health care is gone next go around...2yrs and out...that was one of the big issues for a lot of people and part of what got many elected.

I'd love to see politicians stop worrying about their mouths and for people to stop caring about little sound bytes that really don't matter...the "People" give the media the power to control this.

Getting the economy going, reduce spending, keep taxes low and get out of the way...that's what most want and if it doesn't work so be it, spending us into oblivion sure isn't going to work.

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2010, 05:03:37 AM »
In an interview with CNSNews.com on Monday at the “November Speaks” rally on Capitol Hill, sponsored by the conservative group Americans For Prosperity, DeMint said that forcing insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions is not necessary.

“We don’t need to do that,” said DeMint. “We have examples of what they call high-risk pools at the state level that create an option for people with pre-existing conditions.  A few states are doing that really well.  What we need to do is multiply that over all the states.”

Apart from causing premiums to rise for all Americans to cover people with pre-existing conditions, as the Democrats’ legislation is already causing, DeMint said he would not go along with a plan to force insurers to cover those who were already sick, because similar mandates have been enacted in other nations, and they have failed.

“What we found in other countries is, once you do that, people don’t buy insurance until they’re sick,
” said DeMint.  “So that’s not something I’d support.”

In the “Pledge to America,” a set of promises to the American people laid down in writing prior to the November election, the House Republican leadership wrote that it would “ensure that those with pre-existing conditions gain access to the coverage they need.”

This pledge was made despite a repeated promise that congressional Republicans would repeal the Democrats’ health care bill in its entirety, including the pre-existing conditions mandate, as soon as repeal was possible. medicare Insurance Medigap Supplemental Insurance

It is unclear whether DeMint, who has often found himself at odds with the GOP Senate leadership, is on the same page as his Senate and House colleagues when it comes to assuring that individuals with pre-existing conditions can get access to health insurance.American Seniors Insurance

DeMint addressed a crowd largely made up of Tea Party members, calling for congressional Democrats to refrain from pushing through a liberal agenda during the lame duck session of Congress.

DeMint was joined by Rep. Michelle Bachman (R-Minn.), Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.) and several newly elected Republican congressmen who will take their seats after Jan. 3, 2011.  Medicare Supplement News

“The only reason I’m here today – and a lot of you thanked me on the way in – is to thank you,” DeMint told the crowd. “What you’ve done is given us, me, Mike Pence, Michelle, others, the power to change things. Because the only power we have here in Washington is the power of ideas and the millions of people who are standing behind us.”  

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/demint-opposes-gov-t-mandate-pre-existin

Skip8282

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2010, 05:15:26 PM »
You highlighted the wrong part of your post.  What you should've highlighted is:


In the “Pledge to America,” a set of promises to the American people laid down in writing prior to the November election, the House Republican leadership wrote that it would “ensure that those with pre-existing conditions gain access to the coverage they need.”


As I said, dealing with this problem is a good thing and the overwhelming vast majority of Republicans are for it. 

BTW, we pay for it either way.  The Republicans want to use subsidies to help people get coverage which means your tax dollars foot the bill.

James

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2010, 06:38:57 PM »
You highlighted the wrong part of your post.  What you should've highlighted is:


In the “Pledge to America,” a set of promises to the American people laid down in writing prior to the November election, the House Republican leadership wrote that it would “ensure that those with pre-existing conditions gain access to the coverage they need.”


As I said, dealing with this problem is a good thing and the overwhelming vast majority of Republicans are for it.  

BTW, we pay for it either way.   The Republicans want to use subsidies to help people get coverage which means your tax dollars foot the bill.


And you should re-read again the entire post

He said :

We don’t need to do that,” said DeMint. “We have examples of what they call high-risk pools at the state level that create an option for people with pre-existing conditions.  A few states are doing that really well.  What we need to do is multiply that over all the states.”


What Demint is referring to is wanting to have high risk insurance pools expanded to all States,  but not pre-existing conditions waived on all health plans like Obamcare calls for.   These are 2 totally different things.
High Risk Insurance Plans do not cover your pre existing conditions for the first 12 months, unless you have credible coverage at the time of application, and have had credible coverage for 18 months. What is in Obamacare is pre-existing conditions waved for children already,(by 2013 it is waived for all adults as well) with no waiting periods on pre-existing conditions, this means that under Obamcare rules: people don't need to get insurance until they are already sick and in need of medical care, then they can get a plan for a month or 2,  force an insurance company to pay the bill, then drop it a month later, Medicare Supplement Insurance forcing everyone else who keeps health insurance year around, to have higher premiums, and or the Insurance company taking a huge loss.  
For instance here in Texas, the State High Risk insurance Pool has been around since the early 90's.

Once again, this is what Demint said:

What we found in other countries is, once you do that, people don’t buy insurance until they’re sick,” said DeMint"

"Apart from causing premiums to rise for all Americans to cover people with pre-existing conditions, as the Democrats’ legislation is already causing"

Again Skip, lets look at what has happened so far, since Children went guaranteed issue (no preexisting conditions) Most of the insurance Companies that wrote "children only" plans in that past have dropped out, and the ones who dd not have more than doubled in price.

For instance I just went to ehealthinsurance.com  to run a rate for a child only (age 10) in Texas zip code 77005 ( Houston)  and this is what came up:

"We found 0 plans"

"Celtic Ins. Co. requires the first applicant to be at least 19 or older. "

"UnitedHealthcare requires the first applicant to be at least 19 or older. "

'Humana requires the first applicant to be at least 19 or older."

'Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Texas requires the first applicant to be at least 19 or older."

'Aetna Life Insurance Company requires the first applicant to be at least 19 or older. "

"Companion Life Insurance Company requires the first applicant to be at least 19 or older."


Skip, that means all of the above companies that used to sell child only polices prior to Obamacare (forcing preexisting waved for children)  now don't offer it anymore. (Notice those names above: Humana, UnitedHealthcare, Aetna, Blue Cross Blue Shield)

Now when it comes to adults,, it will be the same, in fact some Insurance companies have already pulled out from writing adults as well, they aren't even waiting for the preexisting conditions to go into affect http://nationalmedicaresupplements.com/  Medicare Supplements for adults, they have seen the writing on the wall, and are changing to writing other products. Medigap

Skip as I mentioned earlier, I have been involved in Insurance for over 18 years, and I can tell you that if Pre existing conditions for adults are waived for everyone (end of 2013)  you will eventually see the same thing happen to adults that you are currently seeing with children only polices. Many of the top carriers will be going to writing more supplemental policies ( accident, indemnity, disability,  etc..) and pulling out of health Insurance, as many already have. And the ones who offer it, will for most, be unaffordable. The prices I am being told by some of the top Actuaries, is of crazy amounts.


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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2010, 08:39:59 AM »
Great post james -

obamaCare needs to be replaced, repealed, and stomped out of existence asap.


Its a complete clusterfuck.

Skip8282

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2010, 03:52:07 PM »



What Demint is referring to is wanting to have high risk insurance pools expanded to all States,  but not pre-existing conditions waived on all health plans like Obamcare calls for.   These are 2 totally different things.
High Risk Insurance Plans do not cover your pre existing conditions for the first 12 months, unless you have credible coverage at the time of application, and have had credible coverage for 18 months. What is in Obamacare is pre-existing conditions waved for children already,(by 2013 it is waived for all adults as well)



No, it's a state by state issue and plans vary (6 months here).  But, that clip is not Demint's full plan.  Demint actually wants coverage expanded for people with pre-existing conditions using these high risk pools, and expanding the pools to all States.

Demint's idea to pay for this is to take TARP money and redistribute it to the States to pay for these pools.  Like I said, we're going to pay for it - either through subsidies or premium increases.


 


Quote
with no waiting periods on pre-existing conditions, this means that under Obamcare rules: people don't need to get insurance until they are already sick and in need of medical care, then they can get a plan for a month or 2,  force an insurance company to pay the bill, then drop it a month later, forcing everyone else who keeps health insurance year around, to have higher premiums, and or the Insurance company taking a huge loss. 
For instance here in Texas, the State High Risk insurance Pool has been around since the early 90's.



We both know the Obamacare justification behind this, and we both agree it's unconsitutional to force everybody to buy into the program.  I still remember Tony, 33, and I arguing with libs that this would occur.  Even opting out and paying the fine, then getting insurance right before you need it, would still be cheaper.  But try explaining that to the fuckwads who supported this.

It's definitely a part of the bill that needs to be addressed.






Quote

Now when it comes to adults,, it will be the same, in fact some Insurance companies have already pulled out from writing adults as well, they aren't even waiting for the preexisting conditions to go into affect for adults, they have seen the writing on the wall, and are changing to writing other products.

Skip as I mentioned earlier, I have been involved in Insurance for over 18 years, and I can tell you that if Pre existing conditions for adults are waived for everyone (end of 2013)  you will eventually see the same thing happen to adults that you are currently seeing with children only polices. Many of the top carriers will be going to writing more supplemental policies ( accident, indemnity, disability,  etc..) and pulling out of health Insurance, as many already have. And the ones who offer it, will for most, be unaffordable. The prices I am being told by some of the top Actuaries, is of crazy amounts.





There's way too many unknowns at this point to call for the end of everything.  Even major carriers that do exclusively or almost exclusively all healthcare wouldn't be able to just bust into a new market in a couple of years and drop their medical plans, but we'll see - or maybe we won't, the Republicans may be able to fix a lot of shit and defund what they can't.

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Re: What Must Republicans Do Now?
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2010, 08:07:24 AM »
The example I use is this. The guy in the casket at the front of the church probably needs life insurance, but it is too late for him to get it.

And it should be too late to get new Health Insurance the day after you are told you need major $$ surgery, and then have the Insurance Company immediately pay for your surgery, which is exactly what Obamacare is requiring Health Insurance Companies do with adults at the end of 2013.  And it will have the same effect on health Insurance (cost and availability) as if Obama also signed into a new Law that says Life Insurance Companies must now offer new polices to people already in the casket, would have on Life Insurance rates.