Author Topic: Old School Training.  (Read 4120 times)

oldtimer1

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Old School Training.
« on: November 12, 2010, 03:00:11 PM »
During this summer I decided to change things up concerning my training.  I usually find a program I like and then train for years using it before I switch things around.  I have used many effective routines through the years.  This summer I really did something that's radical for me.  I trained in two week  blocks changing routines.  I guess the basis of the routines were somewhat identical.  I train in what some would call high intensity fashion.  Even though no one definition of high intensity exists for me it's low sets and generally training to failure.

Just a little background to my view point.  I am not a competitive bodybuilder. I briefly competed in power lifting as a teenager and I was a sprinter in college.  I have an interest in all of physical culture.  I consider physical culture to represent every training endeavor.  So guys that devote their time to body weight exercises or even swimming gets my admiration.   I don't use bodybuilding drugs and I see my training as a means of improving athletic function not cosmetics.  Yet I'm still a fan of the golden era of bodybuilding.  For me it represents a magical time in my youthful innocence when I use to admire bodybuilding champs.  Now through mature vision I now see it for what it is.  It still fascinates me what chemicals; hard work and genetics can achieve.  I also see how very ordinary the champs look with out the syringe. 

Back to my summer of change.  I am now months away from fifty. ( I wrote this a few years ago) Like many of you I have a family and a career that makes training a juggling act. During this summer I decided to have a little fun and not be so rigid in my training.  I looked back over the past 30 plus years of training and I decided to train for a week or two on my favorite  productive routines through the years.  Realize again that when I find a routine that's productive I use to stick with it for years.  Changing routines from week to week is a radical shake up for me.
I generally use one to two work sets per exercise.  Through my training career I have always been a low set high intensity trainer.   I settled on training each body part directly once a week though the last 15 years or so.

So what have I found to be the most productive routine for me?  I made the quickest and best gains over the summer using whole body routines.  Since I was using a split routine training body parts once a week the change to training body parts three times a week was radical.  It produced fast improvement.  I was very surprised to say the least.  I noticed things like when using a split for say back I used chins, seated cable rows; one arm dumbbell rows and lastly reverse grip pulldowns.  I would use this back routine once a week.  Chins were always giving me trouble.  I was stuck on using slow cadence full range 11 rep chins. By full range I mean dead hang with no kip up.  Touching the bar to my upper chest not just clearing my chin.  My back routine using whole body routines were now chins and seated cable rows three times a week.  Suddenly my  chins were improving rapidly and my lats were growing.  Maybe stimulating the muscle to grow with three reasons to adapt to survive and grow was better than once a week.  Three stimuluses to adapt to a stressor vs one per week. 

Here are some specifics.

1.  Since you are training your whole body in one training session you can't use to many exercises.  The basics and most productive are the ones to use.  Power cleans, weighted dips, chins, deadlifts, presses and the like will form the foundation of the routine.  For athletic function do you really need three or four different calf exercises?  Do you really need to train the rear delts when from a kinesiological standpoint they are hit very hard in all back rowing moves. Are three different bicep exercises necessary?

2.  You can change the routine every 2 to 3 weeks for training variety.  This is good from a mental and physical stand point.  My last whole body routine looks like this.  Two work sets were use for each exercise.  1. Power cleans 2. squats 3. weighted lunges 4. chins 5. seated cable rows 6. dumbbell bench press 7. military press. 8. weighted dips 9. barbell curls. 10. standing calf raise. 11. hanging leg raise 12. weighted back extensions. 13. Ironmind grip work.  After 2 to 3 weeks I'll change the exercises.  For example upper back could now be reverse grip pulldowns and one arm dumbbell rows.  Deadlifts could be substituted for power cleans and squats could now be leg presses. 

3.  Have a max goal weight you are trying for.  Having said this all sets won't be to failure.  Training to failure is a tool and I will use it to the max at the end of the cycle.  Here's an example of the progression.  Let's say
your goal is to do 2 sets of 10 full range squats with 250lbs.  Count back 6 to 9 workouts.  Using 9 whole body work outs squats on day one could be 210lbs for your 2 sets of 10.  The weight feels easy yet you know you are working. This could be Mondays workout.  On Wednesday you will use 215lbs.  Still easy but you are going up.  Friday brings you to 220lbs.  Near the end of 9 workouts you are now training all out and it get brutal both psychologically and physically.  I f you reach your goal or come near it's now time to change exercises and progress again. 

4.  Don't be afraid of layoffs.  The body adapts to a stressor.  The stressor is exercise in this case.  The body will reach a point of exhaustion.  Taking layoffs is a part of training.  Don't plan for layoffs but let them come to you.  Don't use this as an excuse to not have a work ethic. 

5. One of the best parts of using whole body routines is the when you are done you hit everything.  How many times have you reached say chest day and couldn't do it due to family or work responsibilities.  Maybe it was just exhaustion from work.  With whole body routines you are still moving forward even if you can just get one workout in a week.  I believe three to two are optimal but having an occasional once a week won't set you back like chopping up a split routine.

6. Use your off days for training the most important muscle in your body the heart.  Swim, run, bike, wrestle, box, play basketball or any other athletic pursuit that you favor that trains the cardio system.

7. Don't become a cosmetic marvel that is just a mirror athlete.  It could tie in with point 6 or it could be anything in athletics that you like.  If lifting is your thing try thowing in some olympic lifting. 

8. A friend of mine said competitive bodybuilding has nothing to do with health.  Maybe he is right but I think for the  garage or basement type trainer it should be a priority.  This means not risking health with drugs.  Anyone who says there's little risk is a person who is using rationalization to justify their addiction.

9. The  body functions as a unit.  In any athletic endeavor from throwing a punch to sprinting involve a blend of explosive groups of muscles.  Don't train with an isolation mentality.  Sitting in a machine doing lateral raises is not as good as cleaning and pressing a barbell.  Also the body fatigues as a unit.  Fatigue is systemic and not only localized in the muscle trained.  Train your whole body with weights and then let it rest. 

I could go on but I have to mow the grass.    If you have a family and a demanding job do you really have the time to drive to a gym and spend 2 hours there for 4 to 6 days a week?  Using my self as an example I work 10 hours a day with a one hour commute each way.  That is 12 hours out of 16 waking hours.  If I trained every day for 2 hours that would leave 2 hours for rest and family.  I could never do that.  I think it was Arthur Jones who said in effect that everything has a cost and every thing has a value.  If training hours a day every day is what it takes for a good physique the cost is not worth it. 

Naturally most competitive bodybuilders won't find value in whole body routines.  I can also see myself for just a change drifting back on occasion into split routines. I can also say that just for fun I might do a high set routine in the future. 

 I truly feel the majority of my training from now on will be whole body routines.  Reeves and Grimek maybe knew something. Training on whole body routines is nothing new.  It is gold waiting to be found again for this trainer.

Side note: I'm using a split routine again.  I know I will be back to this type of training at some point.

dyslexic

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Re: Old School Training.
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2010, 05:26:49 PM »
Cliffs???

oldtimer1

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Re: Old School Training.
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2010, 06:19:06 AM »
Lift weights. Get big.

jpm101

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Re: Old School Training.
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 08:14:24 AM »
Cliff note: K.I.S.S..  A sign which some small, non chain, gyms still have on the wall. Good Luck.
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tallgerman

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Re: Old School Training.
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 02:38:32 PM »

Yev33

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Re: Old School Training.
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010, 10:51:02 PM »
This topic has been beat to death over the years. If you are a beginner or looking to stay in shape and enjoy a weekend game of basketball/tennis/two hand touch football, then whole body routines are the way to go. If you are looking to pack on the most muscle possible or get as strong as possible (this goes for with or without drugs) then you have to use a split routine. Upper/lower works well, pull/push/lower works well, for an intermediate to advanced lifter a training frequency of hitting a bodypart of once every three to five days is plenty. Marvin Eder was the strongest bodybuilder of the 50's and given a bodyweight of only 200lbs at 5'8" his lifts would put him towards the very top even today, what did he discover that others didn't? He used a split routine and trained four to five days a week whereas most bodybuilders of that time were still using the three times a week full body routines.

oldtimer1

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Re: Old School Training.
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2010, 02:24:04 PM »
So you think whole body training is for beginners? Grimek and Reeves would disagree.  Most elite athletes train with whole body routines.  Mike Mentzer used a whole body routine to win the Mr. America contest.  Yes, he did go to a split routine after that win. Casey Viator became the youngest Mr. America winner using a whole body routine.

If you want to build real strength do you need 3 or 4 different bicep exercises?  I know that that pushing a few major compound movements will give you real strength and power.  

Nothing wrong with a split routine for bodybuilding but if you are looking to supplement a real athletic pursuit; a bodybuilding split routine is the wrong way to go about it.  

If you're in good health try the routine I used. It will kick your ass.  Do it for one week and tell me that your three way split is harder.

Yev33

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Re: Old School Training.
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2010, 08:41:38 PM »
Not saying that you need four different bicep excercises, one is plenty. Show me a guy that squats 600, pulls 750, and benches 455 and does all three in the same workout, even two in the same workout. Like I said, great for beginners and those not looking for maximum strength and mass. And bringing HIT routines in this discussion without mentioning Dorian, who was hands down the most successfull of the HIT advocates and used a split routine is ignorant.

jpm101

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Re: Old School Training.
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2010, 09:04:05 AM »
The concept of full body workouts have worked extremely well  for thousands of men over the years. This brief and to the point workout protocol can insure steady gains, as opposed to the 6 day a week marathon training of some. That, at times, may be just a hit or miss effort. Guy's who look the same, not getting much stronger or adding muscle mass, after years of hard training might prove to be a prime example.

Select three, or at the most four, basic compound movements only. Mistake people make is adding too many exercises to this type program. If anyone can't get by without adding arm exercises, than thrown in a couple sets of heavy cheat BB curls and close grip (6 to 8 inches) benches. 3x7-10 reps seems to do the trick for any compound movement.. Of course the tied and true 5x5's is another exceptional  way to use a full body workout.

I, and many, many others, have used squats, pulls & benches  in successful workouts. Have also used squats, DL's & presses  in the same workout. (one of my favorites was Hack BB squats, power cleans & dips..weighted). Some Olympic lifters have used like programs. If only time for one exercise, than do the squat clean and jerk press. A ultimate mass and power builder..and a full body wokout.

Marvin Eder was one of the strongest BB's of past or present. His overhead pressing, dipping (extreme weight added) and heavy curling  were unbelievable. But even without any formal training at all, he would be classified as a natural born strong man. People have a hard time today understanding that. Thinking that you can't get anywhere without chemical help.  Not true at all.

 Check out some of the really, really old timer strongmen (before drugs) of the 18th, 19th & 20th century. Records were kept very carefully back then. I have two cousins that both benched over 400+ as a regular part of their workouts for football. There were juniors & seniors (17 & 18 years) in high school at the time. During off season they hardly trained at all. Just born strong, that's all.  Good Luck.
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Nathan

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Re: Old School Training.
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2010, 07:00:03 PM »
interesting
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