Author Topic: 1st Terrorist in civilian court in NYC cleared of MURDER charges. WE TOLD YOU!  (Read 15217 times)

Soul Crusher

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I agree to a degree, but that's going to be what it takes if we want to detain and interrogate these individuals. 

Oh yeah, sounds great - what happens when you are in a fire fight and you catch the killer and he says on the battlefield "I want a lawyer? "

Option D

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Mal - lets say some shitbag murders your whole family.   Are you going to jump for joy when the jury clears him of the murder charge but convicts him only on weapons possession?   


Im not saying i like the situation at all. But your thread title makes it seem like he is at a bar jumpin for joy because "he got off"...do you understand what im saying

tonymctones

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I vote option 1..... ;D   Seriously, we are putting our soldiers in a very awkward position with this as a precedent.
agree 2 to the back of the head and piss on the body

kcballer

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Oh yeah, sounds great - what happens when you are in a fire fight and you catch the killer and he says on the battlefield "I want a lawyer? "

The same thing Americans did to captured German and Japanese soldiers in WW2 either detain him or shoot him.  
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Im not saying i like the situation at all. But your thread title makes it seem like he is at a bar jumpin for joy because "he got off"...do you understand what im saying

In legal circles - this is a GGGRREEEAAATTT   Victory for the terrorists.  Are you freaking kidding?

 

Soul Crusher

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The same thing Americans did to captured German and Japanese soldiers in WW2 either detain him or shoot him.  

Again - if you detain him under those circumstances you risk anything he says being tossed as a result of coercion. 

If you kill him, you risk court martia and not getting the info. 

The Showstoppa

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Again - if you detain him under those circumstances you risk anything he says being tossed as a result of coercion. 

If you kill him, you risk court martia and not getting the info. 

this.....thats why I said it puts soldiers in a very awkward position.

Option D

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In legal circles - this is a GGGRREEEAAATTT   Victory for the terrorists.  Are you freaking kidding?

 

We just from 2 different worlds. Im from a science background so im very accurate and literal, you ...well you take certian liberties i would never take because its just not my style and thats cool too

Soul Crusher

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We just from 2 different worlds. Im from a science background so im very accurate and literal, you ...well you take certian liberties i would never take because its just not my style and thats cool too

Yeah - worst marriage is alwys an engineer and a lawyer - but legally speaking for this guy to literally get cleared of these murder charges is a massive blow. 

kcballer

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Again - if you detain him under those circumstances you risk anything he says being tossed as a result of coercion. 

If you kill him, you risk court martia and not getting the info. 

You are assuming he will tell you something usable during a firefight?  Wow talk about going out on a limb there.  Why would you be questioning him during a firefight?  
Abandon every hope...

Hereford

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"How is this bad?  He was convicted and will be sentenced.  He will spend 20+ years in solitary or at a supermax for "his own protection"."

^ this

Although it pains me to do so... I gotta side with kcballer here.


Option D

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Yeah - worst marriage is alwys an engineer and a lawyer - but legally speaking for this guy to literally get cleared of these murder charges is a massive blow. 

dude im not marrying you...dont be a homo.. would you like to take a little quiz   ;D

tonymctones

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"How is this bad?  He was convicted and will be sentenced.  He will spend 20+ years in solitary or at a supermax for "his own protection"."

^ this

Although it pains me to do so... I gotta side with kcballer here.


he should be hung...

Soul Crusher

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"How is this bad?  He was convicted and will be sentenced.  He will spend 20+ years in solitary or at a supermax for "his own protection"."

^ this

Although it pains me to do so... I gotta side with kcballer here.



The murder charges of 280 people was tossed out as a result of the jury not being able to hear the info that clearly pegged this guy as the culprit due to the fact that the court felt the info was the result of coercion.  When they obtained the guy, they did not do so under the idea that a civilian tral would result down the line.

This will now set a precedent for all future trials for evidence purposes.   Watch now - KSM will get a military tribunal after this fiasco. 

This is like celebrating a weapons charge sticking to a guy who murdered your family and the murder charges dropped 


Hereford

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THE GUY IS DOING A MINIMUM 20 YEARS TO LIFE

Who cares what the charges ended up being.... he's fucked no matter what!

We are arguing about what they choose to put on his 'permanent record"??

The Showstoppa

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THE GUY IS DOING A MINIMUM 20 YEARS TO LIFE

Who cares what the charges ended up being.... he's fucked no matter what!

We are arguing about what they choose to put on his 'permanent record"??

280 lives = 20 yrs in your book?   Fuck that, he should be shot and tossed in a dumpster.

Hereford

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280 lives = 20 yrs in your book?   Fuck that, he should be shot and tossed in a dumpster.

Agreed, but everyone is acting like he literally got away with murder.

Soul Crusher

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THE GUY IS DOING A MINIMUM 20 YEARS TO LIFE

Who cares what the charges ended up being.... he's fucked no matter what!

We are arguing about what they choose to put on his 'permanent record"??

Its not about this guy, its about the legal precedent that is set.  Think about this - what if they only filed murder charges and not the conspiracy charge?  The consiracy charge is a joke considering this guy killed 280 people.  Additionally, the conviction is a complete farce as law 101 says that a person is guilty of all resultant crimes from the conspiracy.  To not find this guy guilty of murder is unreal and shows just how stupid it i to try these killers in civilian courts when they were captured on the battlefield or in the course of war.    

Guess what - this guy walks, despite the fact that he confessed.  

In legal circles - this case is concered a disaster for Obama, and everyone knows it.      

Soul Crusher

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THE GUY IS DOING A MINIMUM 20 YEARS TO LIFE

Who cares what the charges ended up being.... he's fucked no matter what!

We are arguing about what they choose to put on his 'permanent record"??

20 years equals 17 years in reality.   

Mal - this is aboutt he urder charges being tossed. 

Again - if a guy murders your family - are you going to be thrilled when the guy gets only a weapons charge that sticks?   

Option D

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Agreed, but everyone is acting like he literally got away with murder.

I dont see how you can take the whole "cleared of charges." statement would make you think that  ::) ;D

Fury

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THE GUY IS DOING A MINIMUM 20 YEARS TO LIFE

Who cares what the charges ended up being.... he's fucked no matter what!

We are arguing about what they choose to put on his 'permanent record"??

The possibility of only serving 20 years for killing 224 people is getting away with murder in my book.

Hereford

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Its not about this guy, its about the legal precedent that is set.  Think about this - what if they only filed murder charges and not the conspiracy charge?  The consiracy charge is a joke considering this guy killed 280 people.  Additionally, the conviction is a complete farce as law 101 says that a person is guilty of all resultant crimes from the conspiracy.  To not find this guy guilty of murder is unreal and shows just how stupid it i to try these killers in civilian courts when they were captured on the battlefield or in the course of war.    

Guess what - this guy walks, despite the fact that he confessed.  

In legal circles - this case is concered a disaster for Obama, and everyone knows it.      

What exactly do you want? If he killed your ass in the street, The best that would happen is....


wait for it....

20 years to life.

If he killed 6,000 people, the best you would get is 20 or 25 to life.

Soul Crusher

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The lesson of Ghailani's trial fiascoAl-Qaida declared war on the US in 1998, so let's not be moral idiots: try their combatants in Guantánamo, not civilian courts
Pamela Geller guardian.co.uk, Thursday 18 November 2010 04.18 GMT Article history



________________________ ________________________ ________________


A woman is carried from the rubble of the US embassy in Nairobi in August 1998 after it was bombed by al-Qaida. At his trial in New York, 17 November 2010, Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani was found guilty on a single charge of conspiracy for his role in the attack. Photograph: Khalil Senosi/AP
 
On Wednesday, Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, the first Guantánamo detainee to be tried in civilian court in New York, was acquitted of all but one charge, that of conspiracy for his role in jihadist terror bombings in Nairobi and Dar-es-Salaam, which killed 224 people. His acquittal is the first poisonous fruit of Obama's policy of treating acts of war as law enforcement issues. It also shows what is wrong with doing so.

Apparently, the evidence charging him with 224 counts of murder could not be used in court, because "coercive" techniques were used to get information from him. The jury did find him guilty of "conspiracy to destroy government buildings". So, the al-Qaida terrorist killed 224 people and he's guilty of… destruction of public property?

This is a serious setback for the US – another breathtaking failure on the part of the Obama administraton, yet again putting Americans and national security at risk.

Yet, former prosecutor and executive director of Human Rights Watch Kenneth Roth has argued that such trials, including the trial of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, should be in New York, since "the victims' families have a right to witness these trials." Yet, on 11 September 2001, all of America was under attack, not just the 9/11 families – it was an act of war against the United States of America.

Roth claims that "by choosing a federal court over the discredited military commissions, the US would show that it values the rule of law, trying even those accused of the worst crimes in a system that is broadly recognised as fair." In reality, by choosing a federal court, we are once again refusing to address the root cause. By pretending that these attacks were not intended to take down America, and work toward overthrowing the government and installing a Sharia-based Islamic government, we yet again surrender to Islamic supremacism and imperialism.

There have been close to 20,000 documented Islamist-inspired attacks worldwide since 9/11; all were inspired by the same Islamic jihadi ideology and given the imprimatur of a Muslim cleric. This is war. It takes incomprehensible delusion and a denial of objective reality to think that combatants in that war are comparable to civilian criminals and should be tried in the same way.

Yet, Roth contends that civilian trials are necessary because "any verdict by the military commissions will inevitably be tainted by the stigma of Guantánamo, where they are held." Barack Obama also claimed, in May 2009, that there was "no question that Guantánamo set back the moral authority that is America's strongest currency in the world."

I disagree. If America prosecutes those who kept this country safe from people like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, as Obama seems prepared to do, that would set back our moral authority. If America turns her back on the jihad against women, Christians, Jews and non-believers, that would set back America's moral authority.

What's wrong with Guantánamo? Allegations of torture there have been politically motivated, spurious, and pale in comparison to Saddam Hussein at his most lenient. The idea that it is a bad thing that Gitmo is holding jihadists who would slaughter thousands if given the opportunity is evidence of dhimmitude and surrender to the enemy narrative, and to the disinformation that the enemy has been producing.

Moreover, detaining enemy combatants without trial is entirely consistent with the "rule of law" that applies in wartime. Indeed, the Obama Justice Department has found itself making just this argument, albeit without fanfare. In short, indefinite detention at Gitmo "destroyed our credibility" only with Bush-deranged leftists – isn't it amazing how uninterested in our credibility they've suddenly become now that their guy is accountable?

Some of Roth's attempts to justify New York civilian trials for jihadis are bizarre; others simply wrong. "Some opponents of holding the trials in New York," says Roth, "cite purported security concerns, but these fears are overblown." Really? Only if you consider human life worthless, as our enemy does. Roth also says that "the war framework is wrong for such awful crimes since it allows the suspects to glorify themselves as combatants."

Actually, a civilian trial is much more likely than a military tribunal to turn into a dog-and-pony show. In a civilian court in New York, the mass-murdering jihadis would not be on trial; Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the military would be the real defendants. Such trials will become veritable jihadi circuses, in which jihadists can propagandise to the whole world in courtrooms choked with reporters.

It would also be much easier for them to game the system. Andrew McCarthy, who prosecuted the jihadists who bombed the World Trade Centre in 1993, recalled that one of them told another: "Tell them, 'I don't know. I'm not talking to you. Bring my lawyer.' Never talk to them. Not a word. 'My lawyer' – that's it! That's what's so beautiful about America."

Even worse, as defendants in civilian trials, the 9/11 masterminds would be granted access to material from American intelligence services about jihadi activity in the United States. They would be granted a look at everything the US knows about al-Qaida and its allied groups, and would be able to pass this information on to active jihadists.

McCarthy explains that "the criminal-justice system is tailored to address ordinary crimes committed in peacetime America. It is designed to favor the defendants," and is wholly unequipped to deal with jihadis who "operate from overseas redoubts where American law does not apply, where foreign regimes like Iran and the Taliban are only too happy to abet them."

How much intelligence would be compromised when these jihadists enemies of America are all lawyered up?

They should be tried as the war criminals that they are, at Guantánamo – in a military court.

________________________ ________________________ _______

The leftists applauding this fiasco once again are the useful idiots for the terrorists.  

Soul Crusher

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I dont see how you can take the whole "cleared of charges." statement would make you think that  ::) ;D

He did get cleared of murder.   Over 200 counts of it. 

Soul Crusher

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What exactly do you want? If he killed your ass in the street, The best that would happen is....


wait for it....

20 years to life.

If he killed 6,000 people, the best you would get is 20 or 25 to life.

no no no no no, this is about legal procedures.  This judge and court set the precedent that all info obtained by what it deems "coercive" means will be tossed.