Author Topic: Obama Admn keeping Oil drilling ban ($6 a gallon gas here we come) - Told You So  (Read 57523 times)

tu_holmes

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Demand has been down for 5 consecutive weeks..However, prices continue to go up..

Which shows you that it's not supply and demand causing this.

I've been saying this for years!

kcballer

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Demand has been down for 5 consecutive weeks..However, prices continue to go up..

US demand has been going down slowly for longer than that.  Point is elsewhere it isn't and the oil used to replace the light crude is most cost intensive, leading to a higher price overall. 

Abandon every hope...

kcballer

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Yes, as has been shown throughout this thread, you ARE the one with no idea. Like 333 said, you Obama dicksuckers and your refusal to put any of this on your God-King is a sad, pathetic joke. For one, you refuse to acknowledge the failed fiscal policies of your Messiah that have contributed to 19+ weeks of increased oil prices. Secondly, trying to pin this on a "recovery" from the recession is another sad joke as there is no recovery. And there certainly wasn't any talk of recovery in November, when prices started going up. But you keep hanging onto your fantasy about demand, though.  ::)

I'd hate to rain on your parade but you really need to read into China's current economic situation. It's not roses like you think and their demand for oil is falling right now due to inflation's effects starting to him them hard. But hey, you go ahead and thump your chest about demand until you're blue in the face. Maybe if you draw blood it might come true.

You keep bringing up China why is that?  China isn't the driver of oil prices by themselves are you dense? 

OPEC consumes almost as much oil as OECD countries, it's one of the only countries where oil demand is rising. 

The fact remains you have proven nothing but a fool who doesn't see behind the partisan rhetoric.  I have never once not said Obama doesn't have a hand in this.  I have acknowledged that inflation is playing a part but it's not the MAIN driver.  There are other issues at play here.

You have failed over and over to see that even the oil companies have acknowledged the time of cheap oil is over.  Look at the investment they are making in Canadian oil sands, heck you pointed out the Utah oil sands, know why those are being talked about now?  Because the price of oil isn't going to come down enough to make the investment worthless.  These are businesses they are there to make money.  You really think they would invest billions in an oil resource that needs oil to be at or around $60+ a barrel if they thought it would drop back down?  Are you that stupid that you don't understand the simple economics behind that?  They aren't spending billions with the expectation of cheap oil in the future. 

But hey it's all China right?  It seems you have two 'points'  One is Obama's money printing policy.  A good argument to make, but one that doesn't take into account what the oil companies themselves are doing and investing in.  So you see only part of a story.

The other is China.  China?  Really?  I've mentioned over and over OPEC's demand outpacing OECD but no it's China.  Really?  Is that the only thing you can refute?  Hahaha i get it now.  Stick to what YOU know, which isn't much.
Abandon every hope...

Fury

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Partisan view? Please. The Dems had control of everything for two years. They set the wheels of inflation in motion by recklessly spending and printing money when they needed more (Hi, QE2!). And I keep referencing demand because you keep talking about it. China, along with India, are two of the juggernauts driving increasing oil demand. You keep referencing the OPEC countries but, in the grand scheme of things, their increasing demand, ALONG with that of China/India/whatever, still won't create the environment for the 19 straight weeks of increasing prices that we've seen. You harp on demand while ignoring the fact that QE2 and other fiscal policy failures of the Obama regime are the driving force behind the rising oil prices. Not only that, both China and India are fighting inflation right now that is on the cusp of becoming a gigantic problem for both countries so their oil demands have actually fallen over the last few months. As 225 for 70 said, demand keeps falling and prices keep rising. That is not demand driving those increases, but a weak dollar and rising inflation on the home-front. Why is that so hard to grasp?

Demand is NOT the main driver in this. There is not, nor will there be in the short future, any level of demand to warrant the prices we've been seeing. You're a fucking fool if you think this is the case.


kcballer

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Partisan view? Please. The Dems had control of everything for two years. They set the wheels of inflation in motion by recklessly spending and printing money when they needed more (Hi, QE2!). And I keep referencing demand because you keep talking about it. China, along with India, are two of the juggernauts driving increasing oil demand. You keep referencing the OPEC countries but, in the grand scheme of things, their increasing demand, ALONG with that of China/India/whatever, still won't create the environment for the 19 straight weeks of increasing prices that we've seen. You harp on demand while ignoring the fact that QE2 and other fiscal policy failures of the Obama regime are the driving force behind the rising oil prices. Not only that, both China and India are fighting inflation right now that is on the cusp of becoming a gigantic problem for both countries so their oil demands have actually fallen over the last few months. As 225 for 70 said, demand keeps falling and prices keep rising. That is not demand driving those increases, but a weak dollar and rising inflation on the home-front. Why is that so hard to grasp?

Demand is NOT the main driver in this. There is not, nor will there be in the short future, any level of demand to warrant the prices we've been seeing. You're a fucking fool if you think this is the case.



Oh dear it's one issue BF harping on at one issue thinking it's the ONE thing that has caused this.  It can't be demand, it can't be 4 million barrels that are lost each day and need to be found just to stay at current supply levels.  It must be the one issue you can wrap that little brain around and look up on your right wing sites. Hahaha i actual feel bad for you bro. 
Abandon every hope...

HDPhysiques

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JOIN HDPhysiques!!!!

tu_holmes

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This article is correct.  Read and learn:

http://www.cpeterson.org/2011/03/10/why-gas-is-so-expensive-today-hint-its-not-libya/

This is also what I've been saying... oil being a commodity is designed to go up in price.

Thanks HD.

kcballer

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This article is correct.  Read and learn:

http://www.cpeterson.org/2011/03/10/why-gas-is-so-expensive-today-hint-its-not-libya/

Good post and speculation and traders account for a some of the increase.

And i may have been misunderstanding BF's point of view, i do concede that inflationary policies have led to an increase in oil, i would imagine without it oil would be no less than 60 no higher than 80.

However, there is little a government can do other than nationalize it's oil reserves and sell it to it's people cheaply a la OPEC, or subsidize oil imports a la India.  Stopping the printing presses will result in a temporary decrease, but it will not result in a return to $40 a barrel oil. 

You need to look no further than what the oil companies themselves are investing in and saying.  There are generally two types of oil, crude and tar sands/bitumen.  One is relatively easy and cheap to pump once you have the infrastructure set up.  The other is costly and energy intensive not to mention environmentally toxic. 

Access and abundance of crude have kept oil prices low, OPEC shocks notwithstanding, for decades.  The cost is relatively small and once an oil well reaches it economic life (this is different from its actual oil capacity as it is more costly to pump the last 40% or so than it was to pump the first 60%) they seal it up and move on.

This worked well for a long time, but then we stopped finding new crude in easily accessible places.  It was becoming cost intensive and more and more risky.  We see that with the boom of offshore drilling n the gulf of Mexico, a hurricane haven.  But the economics worked, oil had risen enough to offset the costs to set up and pump. 

The exact same thing is happening in Canada.  They have the 2nd largest proven reserves in the world but it ain't crude.  It's bitumen/tar sands.  This is exponentially more cost intensive than crude, you dig a pit, pump chemicals heated to 1000's of degrees to lighten the oil trapped in the sand and pump it to the top.  This costs and involves a lot more than pumping crude and does not make economic sense unless oil is at or above the generally accepted break even point - $60 per barrel.  Prior to the economic crisis investment from the oil companies was worth billions of dollars, when oil collapsed to $40 a barrel almost every single project for expansion was canceled. 

But when it rises over $60 a barrel what happens?  Billions flood back into Canada.  The oil sands start expanding again and new plans are in place.  The oil companies don't spend this money thinking "lets do this for a while and wait for oil to drop back down".  They do this because they know crude is in short supply. Exxon has already forecast that for every barrel of crude they produce of the next 10 years .95 will be replaced.  Meaning less crude, more reliance on tar sands.   What does that mean for the consumer?  Sustained higher oil prices. 



Abandon every hope...


Soul Crusher

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Bump

QE2 - same with gold, ilver, food, 10% inflation using old method, oil priced in dollars, speculation based on world events, drilling and refinery bans, ec.     

Bindare_Dundat

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Good post and speculation and traders account for a some of the increase.

And i may have been misunderstanding BF's point of view, i do concede that inflationary policies have led to an increase in oil, i would imagine without it oil would be no less than 60 no higher than 80.

However, there is little a government can do other than nationalize it's oil reserves and sell it to it's people cheaply a la OPEC, or subsidize oil imports a la India.  Stopping the printing presses will result in a temporary decrease, but it will not result in a return to $40 a barrel oil.  

You need to look no further than what the oil companies themselves are investing in and saying.  There are generally two types of oil, crude and tar sands/bitumen.  One is relatively easy and cheap to pump once you have the infrastructure set up.  The other is costly and energy intensive not to mention environmentally toxic.  

Access and abundance of crude have kept oil prices low, OPEC shocks notwithstanding, for decades.  The cost is relatively small and once an oil well reaches it economic life (this is different from its actual oil capacity as it is more costly to pump the last 40% or so than it was to pump the first 60%) they seal it up and move on.

This worked well for a long time, but then we stopped finding new crude in easily accessible places.  It was becoming cost intensive and more and more risky.  We see that with the boom of offshore drilling n the gulf of Mexico, a hurricane haven.  But the economics worked, oil had risen enough to offset the costs to set up and pump.  

The exact same thing is happening in Canada.  They have the 2nd largest proven reserves in the world but it ain't crude.  It's bitumen/tar sands.  This is exponentially more cost intensive than crude, you dig a pit, pump chemicals heated to 1000's of degrees to lighten the oil trapped in the sand and pump it to the top.  This costs and involves a lot more than pumping crude and does not make economic sense unless oil is at or above the generally accepted break even point - $60 per barrel.  Prior to the economic crisis investment from the oil companies was worth billions of dollars, when oil collapsed to $40 a barrel almost every single project for expansion was canceled.  

But when it rises over $60 a barrel what happens?  Billions flood back into Canada.  The oil sands start expanding again and new plans are in place.  The oil companies don't spend this money thinking "lets do this for a while and wait for oil to drop back down".  They do this because they know crude is in short supply. Exxon has already forecast that for every barrel of crude they produce of the next 10 years .95 will be replaced.  Meaning less crude, more reliance on tar sands.   What does that mean for the consumer?  Sustained higher oil prices.  





I don't understand why their gas is so expensive when they have all that money going back into their economy, especially considering they have a stronger dollar right now. Sounds like price fixing is the answer, no?

I wonder what oil works out to be when priced in gold?

Option D

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QE2 - same with gold, ilver, food, 10% inflation using old method, oil priced in dollars, speculation based on world events, drilling and refinery bans, ec.     

and obama

Soul Crusher

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and obama

He has made the situation worse.     

Option D

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He has made the situation worse.     

im sure.. gas is his fault..  ::)

Option D

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so is this cloudy day..

Soul Crusher

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im sure.. gas is his fault..  ::)

QE2

Drilling Bans

Moritoriums

Dithering on the Canadian Pipeline

Emboldening the financial crooks in this scheme

Fosterig middle east unrest 



Etc.   Sorry bro - time to take off the dark colored shades (literally) and see your messiah for the disaster he is economically.  Worse than bush.     

Option D

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QE2

Drilling Bans

Moritoriums

Dithering on the Canadian Pipeline

Emboldening the financial crooks in this scheme

Fosterig middle east unrest 


Etc.   Sorry bro - time to take off the dark colored shades (literally) and see your messiah for the disaster he is economically.  Worse than bush.     


HAHAHA.. ok

Soul Crusher

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HAHAHA.. ok

Starting a war in lybia, forcing Mubarak out, etc is real settling. 

GigantorX

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Endless amounts of red hot, cheep dollars being pumped into Wall Street/Financial system + a dead dollar + useless zero return Treasuries = Oil/stocks being the ONLY game in town to actually see a return. This is a big reason why commodities are skyrocketing, it's the only place to make any money, fundamentals be damned.

Add the above to U.S. grain stores being at 15 year lows, rising demand and more and more of the Ethanol Joke eating into stores and you get higher grain prices.

Any industry that uses oil/petro products = rising prices. Although the latest reports show that those prices are eating into margins and not being totally passed on to us. That doesn't bode well for future inflation.

And I'm with kcBaller on the point that it isn't all inflation/trading etc, there is a supply/demand component involved as well. The world sits on the razors edge of supply/demand as it is so any disruption, no matter where in the world, is felt by all. Cushing my have run out of space to store reserve oil, but the M/E is scaring traders so that rising tide lifts all boats.

We need to diversify the types of energies used, we need to find more supply and we need to work on conserving what we have.

Efficiency gains are a tough one though. The Jevons effect states that efficiency gains usually lead to more use, I believe this to be true for the most part.

Option D

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Starting a war in lybia, forcing Mubarak out, etc is real settling. 
OH REALLY  ::)

you have reduced yourself to a hateful irrational little man

Soul Crusher

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OH REALLY  ::)

you have reduced yourself to a hateful irrational little man

So Bama didnt start a war over there? 

kcballer

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Endless amounts of red hot, cheep dollars being pumped into Wall Street/Financial system + a dead dollar + useless zero return Treasuries = Oil/stocks being the ONLY game in town to actually see a return. This is a big reason why commodities are skyrocketing, it's the only place to make any money, fundamentals be damned.

Add the above to U.S. grain stores being at 15 year lows, rising demand and more and more of the Ethanol Joke eating into stores and you get higher grain prices.

Any industry that uses oil/petro products = rising prices. Although the latest reports show that those prices are eating into margins and not being totally passed on to us. That doesn't bode well for future inflation.

And I'm with kcBaller on the point that it isn't all inflation/trading etc, there is a supply/demand component involved as well. The world sits on the razors edge of supply/demand as it is so any disruption, no matter where in the world, is felt by all. Cushing my have run out of space to store reserve oil, but the M/E is scaring traders so that rising tide lifts all boats.

We need to diversify the types of energies used, we need to find more supply and we need to work on conserving what we have.

Efficiency gains are a tough one though. The Jevons effect states that efficiency gains usually lead to more use, I believe this to be true for the most part.

Great post.  Efficiency gains did lead to more Americans driving more miles.  The answer is not temporary cheap oil, it's an actual discussion and presentation on financially viable alternatives and a government plan to help foster that. 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Great post.  Efficiency gains did lead to more Americans driving more miles.  The answer is not temporary cheap oil, it's an actual discussion and presentation on financially viable alternatives and a government plan to help foster that. 

ha ha ha ha - was having a debate on this w my GF this weekend.  I am looking for a new car now.  I am tryingto choose between Jeep Wrangler 4 Door, Subaru outback, or a Honda CRV.   I need something to go off road, tow the jet ski, go in the now, etc.  right now I like the outback even though it is a nerdy wagon.   she is like "but its un-manly".  I am like "but it gets good mpg, tows the jet ski, gores in the off road and snow etc".   


ha ha ha hah.     

Option D

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ha ha ha ha - was having a debate on this w my GF this weekend.  I am looking for a new car now.  I am tryingto choose between Jeep Wrangler 4 Door, Subaru outback, or a Honda CRV.   I need something to go off road, tow the jet ski, go in the now, etc.  right now I like the outback even though it is a nerdy wagon.   she is like "but its un-manly".  I am like "but it gets good mpg, tows the jet ski, gores in the off road and snow etc".   


ha ha ha hah.     

obama influenced your decision

tu_holmes

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ha ha ha ha - was having a debate on this w my GF this weekend.  I am looking for a new car now.  I am tryingto choose between Jeep Wrangler 4 Door, Subaru outback, or a Honda CRV.   I need something to go off road, tow the jet ski, go in the now, etc.  right now I like the outback even though it is a nerdy wagon.   she is like "but its un-manly".  I am like "but it gets good mpg, tows the jet ski, gores in the off road and snow etc".   


ha ha ha hah.     
Subaru's are notoriously for homosexuals.