Negative-only training

[mitchyboy]

I see a little better what you are getting at. Just FYI, that's not negative only training, but were talking semantics here lol. Pure negative training is taking a weight you can not lift one time, and slowly lowering it, having assist to get it up and repeating.
 Your talking about end of set negatives which can be very beneficial. I say go for it, this is all an experiment anyways ha ha. That's what makes it fun.
 As far as gaining 'size' while losing or even remaining the same weight, that's a pipe dream perpetuated by the supp company's.
If you gain size, were do you suppose it will come from, thin air? You must have a calorie surplus in order to gain "weight", IE. muscle.
See the problem here? If you don't gain weight, IE muscle, again were will it come from to be on your arms.
 When you figure that out please let me know, ha ha.
One caveat. When you are just first starting out, you may gain quickly and even lose some bodyfat. This quickly comes to a raging halt, and frustrates the hell out of new trainers. This is were patience and maturity come in. Keep plugging away and the gains will come.
 Just probably not as fast as you would like.
 
    Jesus sorry for the novel.

[dj181]

Good one Dropping Plates I don't know man, I guess that I don't want any tough guys at the gym giving me any hard stares And as far as localized growth, I had it with my legs years back when I gain 5 pounds of bodyweight and dropped a bit of fat, while putting ALL of that weight on my legs, as they increased their size by nearly 2 inches, and the rest of my body stay exactly the same size.

[dj181]

Well Jamie, I'm gonna try something a bit different and do this negative training every 48 to 96 hours. And as far as maintaining back and legs, I can do this by training then every 2 weeks, or every 14 days.

[dj181]

Yeah mitchyboy, I see what you're saying man, but... I actually did go from 160 @ 12% bodyfat to 165 @ 11% bodyfat in 5 weeks (see my above post about leg training) and yeah, I'm a lifetime natural trainer.

[mitchyboy]

As far as localized growth, i do belive in it. Why do any other excersizes at all just squat. Why do people curl? Why do people bench?
I still stick with the overall body mass increase, for arm and any other bodypart increase. Does that make it true localized grow?

I dont know, but one thing i do know, if i didnt train arms and such, they wouldnt have gone from under 12, to over 17 pumped now.
 I do know that if you only train arms all the time, and dont make an efort to increases everything else, your arms will never reach there  potential.
But i also believe if you only squat all the time, and never work arms, your arms will never reach there full potential.
 Makes sense to me lol.

[DroppingPlates]

Localized as in what? I train chest and arms and my chest and arms get bigger, I don't need to do squats to grow my chest and i sure as hell don't need to gain 10lb all over to put size on my arms.

Like I said, a localized pump. Sure, your chest & arms will grow, but doing presses will also stimulate other areas like your back, delts, forearms and serratus anterior. Want proof? Look at powerlifters, they put most of their focus on the big three exercises and guess what? They achieve overall development, much more than the average gym rat doing isolation's/machine work.
And yes, squats will help your chest grow. Thinking that they only work for the legs tells me that you don't do them seriously.

[mitchyboy]

You may be one of the lucky ones man haha. If its not just first year growth, that you experienced, and you can keep that up, theres no reason you cant continue and be 170 at 6-8 percent in time, mabye a few months, mabye a year. I highly doubt it though but good luck.

[Jaime]

Like I said, a localized pump. Sure, your chest & arms will grow, but doing presses will also stimulate other areas like your back, delts, forearms and serratus anterior. Want proof? Look at powerlifters, they put most of their focus on the big three exercises and guess what? They achieve overall development, much more than the average gym rat doing isolation's/machine work.
And yes, squats will help your chest grow. Thinking that they only work for the legs tells me that you don't do them seriously.

How will squats help my chest grow? The minisclule test and Gh release?

I train what i want to build. I know that when i isolate chest for example, that's where all my weight goes. It is very easy to establish visually. Sure there are numerous ways to train and certain methods might be more efficent than others, but of course growth is localized if you isolate.

[Wiggs]

H.I.T. is best.

[wes]

Dropping Plates = on the money.

[DroppingPlates]

How will squats help my chest grow? The minisclule test and Gh release?

Wrong, squats & deads are the largest GH releasing exercises (yes, this has been researched). This plus the fact that stabilising your upper body during squats puts stress on your back, arms, delts, traps & chest (esp when going deep) and the tension on your thorax indirectly helps to build a good upper body.

I train what i want to build. I know that when i isolate chest for example, that's where all my weight goes. It is very easy to establish visually. Sure there are numerous ways to train and certain methods might be more efficent than others, but of course growth is localized if you isolate.

I've never seen a huge guy doing only isolation (well, it's never 100%) exercises. In case of chest training, only the pec deck would be valid.

[Jaime]

Wrong, squats & deads are the largest GH releasing exercises (yes, this has been researched). This plus the fact that stabilising your upper body during squats puts stress on your back, arms, delts, traps & chest (esp when going deep) and the tension on your thorax indirectly helps to build a good upper body.
I've never seen a huge guy doing only isolation (well, it's never 100%) exercises. In case of chest training, only the pec deck would be valid.

I have read numerous studies that suggest that GH release from the big compound movements is so small as to be insignificant.

You are right i don't completely isolate chest but that is where the emphasis is and that is what i am visualizing. A guy that does squats and bench is not going to build a bigger chest to any discernible degree more than a guy that is just benching.

[DroppingPlates]

I have read numerous studies that suggest that GH release from the big compound movements is so small as to be insignificant.

I don't have statistics, but why don't you do the math yourself? Measure your fat free mass, perform only isolation's for 2 months (extentions, curls, flyes, etc), measure again your FFM, perform multi-joint movements for 2 months and measure again (of course you eat the same for 4 months). Give it a try

You are right i don't completely isolate chest but that is where the emphasis is and that is what i am visualizing. A guy that does squats and bench is not going to build a bigger chest to any discernible degree more than a guy that is just benching.

This is more a big picture story. I tried to argument why squats will help. Again, in general hypertrophy is rather a overall than a local process.

[Jaime]

I don't have statistics, but why don't you do the math yourself? Measure your fat free mass, perform only isolation's for 2 months (extentions, curls, flyes, etc), measure again your FFM, perform multi-joint movements for 2 months and measure again (of course you eat the same for 4 months). Give it a try
This is more a big picture story. I tried to argument why squats will help. Again, in general hypertrophy is rather a overall than a local process.

I do compounds, i just don't see the signifigance that lower body compounds would have when regarding upperbody growth. Short of certain studies pointing towards Gh/test release, of which the significance is disputed. No i don't care to drop compound movements lol and do that experiment lol.

It may help, but i don't think that it would be of any great significance.

[magicuser]

im sure you are past that basic level where just lifting daily only cuases gains

you need advanced shock growth right?  since you are at 400 pound bench alreayd right??

[dj181]

Speaking of overall growth from barbell squats, Arthur Jones said that it was very much so, due to the indirect effect, but a few years later he altered that statement, and said that the indirect effect is very nil, and that indeed growth is rather localized.

[DroppingPlates]

Speaking of overall growth from barbell squats, Arthur Jones said that it was very much so, due to the indirect effect, but a few years later he altered that statement, and said that the indirect effect is very nil, and that indeed growth is rather localized.

Jones was a wise man with good arguments, but keep in mind that Nautilus made more profit with machines than basic squat racks.

[JP_RC]

I remember when I switched to compound movements only in my training for a while and guess what? My arms lost size.
Direct stimulation is vital for arm growth in my opinion, I can't see someone gaining good arm, chest or delt development without direct stimulation.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Any body have much experience with it? If so, please share. FYI, I'm gonna give it a run in my quest for 17 inch arms at my twink natural 160

Be careful. I had a negative-only mother and father and it almost drove me to suicide.

[dj181]

Lol! Good one snowman

[dj181]

And you are right JP, arms do need direct stimulation, especially biceps (of course this is regarding my own weight training experiences)

[TRIX]

17 inch arms at 160 lbs? You need to be in the 190 - 200 lb range

[DK II]

I'm only gonna do negative on DB concentration curls and push-ups, yeah push-ups. I have a backpack that I can load up with weight plates which enables me to do negative-only push-ups. My goal is to add over an inch to my arms, so I will only train with a maintance style on my legs and back, just to maintain them and have extra energy and reserve to focus ALL of my energy on those 2 exercises. In my experience, it is best just to focus on building up only one or two body parts, while giving a minimum level of effort to maintain the other bodyparts. I have NEVER been able to make ALL my body parts grow at the same time, so for me it works best just to focus on one or 2 body parts at a time.

You're an idiot.

[dj181]

Come on Donk... Er, I mean DK You can do better than that man! "I'm an idiot"? Ok, prove it! Exactly how am I an idiot? Is it because I said that muscle growth is localized? Come on, smart german man, lets see that german intellect of yours Oh, and by the way, keep this topic related and none of this "Your mama" bullshit

[mass243]