Poll

Hitman or HBK?

Shawn
12 (70.6%)
Bret
5 (29.4%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Author Topic: Shawn or Bret?  (Read 11641 times)

mass 04

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Shawn or Bret?
« on: January 02, 2011, 11:52:53 AM »
Who do you prefer? Who do you think the better worker was and who had the better career?

Montague

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2011, 02:21:12 PM »
I’m going to do my best to look at this objectively, focusing on the end product while ignoring the backstage bullshit.
On the Bret Scale:

BRET

Look: 8
To this day I’m shocked that the long, greasy hair and neon bubblegum pink ring gear caught on.
I don’t know if anyone else could have pulled that off the same way, and for that I give the Hitman credit.
Bret never had the body of a Warrior, or even Rude for that matter, but he had an athletic build and it worked to his advantage.
Hitman had an attainable/believable physique, which matched his realistic character & wrestling style.
Also, they gave him the top spot at a time when Vince was trying to distance the company from the negative press of the steroid scandal. 

Talk: 7
Certainly not the greatest, but it worked.
He connected with the audience, which matters most, but I attribute much of that to his overall character.
By adding bits of his real/personal life, he grew the legend of his family to international heights, which also built up his own “mystique.”
Some of his promos seemed mundane and often ran maybe longer than they should have, but many of them had an edge - particularly towards the end of his first WWF run.

Wrestling Ability: 9.8
Solid ground game.
Versatile.
VERY REALISTIC.
EMOTIONALLY CHARGED.
Vast improvement over the era of Hogan’s, Warrior’s, etc.
Had Steamboat not shot himself in the foot, I believe the Dragon would have eventually stepped into this type of role.
While other guys maybe knew more and/or flashier moves, Bret knew how to make his moves MEAN THE MOST.
That comes from knowing how to tell a story in the ring; not with the microphone.
Bret’s matches always looked reactionary; never rehearsed.
The pacing, timing, psychology - everything was as close to perfect as one can get.



SHAWN

Look: 8.5
Got better with time.
In the Rocker days he didn’t even look like he trained, but once he went solo, he developed a respectable amount of muscularity.
He looked his best from about 96 to when he dropped the big belt to Austin.
I always thought the hair & ring gear matched the flamboyance of the character to a "T."

Talk: 8.3
Not the worst, but far from the best.
Used to stutter & lose his place a lot - can‘t even blame the placydils and booze because his ring work was damn near flawless.
The cockiness of the character really got him over as both a heel and a face: a true rarity in pro wrestling at that time.

Wrestling Ability: 9.7
Flashier than Bret, but still believable to a degree - especially when he had a good opponent to work with.
Like Bret, his performances almost always had an emotional hook.
Shawn also took great bumps that got him and his opponents over.
He could bring out the best and get the most out of any opponent.


Both men’s finsihers relied a great deal on the cooperation of the opponent.

Bret would sometimes hit the sharpshooter from an awkward/unexpected position (which made it more interesting), but almost always, the only way you could hook that move is if the other guy allowed you.

Sweet Chin Music was even more tacky.
Unless your opponent had never seen an HBK match and/or was deaf, that foot stomp & skip across the ring was perhaps the biggest telegraph in history.
I always preferred when Shawn hit it from out of nowhere - that always made more sense to me.
The other way, the guy had a good 10 seconds to move out of the way.

Regardless, the way Bret & HBK sold their finishers always popped the crowd.
I think their ratings are close enough to a tie.
Both were EXCELLENT workers.

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2011, 02:29:34 PM »
I would give the edge to Bret, although it is close.  Shawn might have had the better career, but Bret was better.

mass 04

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2011, 04:24:57 PM »
I lean very slightly towards Shawn. If Shawn had stayed retired, I'd go Bret, but the matches he had post comeback(HHH, Angle, Taker etc..) are impossible to ignore. Overall, I prefer Bret but I think Shawn was a bit better. I think Bret was underrated on the mic, his promos when he started the New Hart Foundation and went "anti American", were amazing. Both guys really made you believe like they were fighting for something, and in Bret's mind, I think he really thought he was.

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 05:17:15 AM »
Slight edge to Shawn.  When DX first began, he was pure gold.....the interviews, angles, etc... fit him perfectly and he always delivered in the ring. 

It's interesting that both of them first made it big as TT wrestlers and later developed into singles stars.  Something you just don't see much of anymore.

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2011, 06:01:47 AM »
Shawn was very innovative during the time he came up.
Bret also introduced to the mainstream WWF the realistic style common in the Northern territories.
Both men should be remembered for being the first to do a lot of what we saw then.


It always seemed to me that the farther North you got, the more solid & realistic a lot of the ring action was.
Conversely, the farther South you went, the cheesier the product was; even the gimmicks.
There were exceptions, but think AWA vs. MCW overall...


The Showstoppa

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2011, 06:05:43 AM »
Shawn was very innovative during the time he came up.
Bret also introduced to the mainstream WWF the realistic style common in the Northern territories.
Both men should be remembered for being the first to do a lot of what we saw then.


It always seemed to me that the farther North you got, the more solid & realistic a lot of the ring action was.
Conversely, the farther South you went, the cheesier the product was; even the gimmicks.
There were exceptions, but think AWA vs. MCW overall...


I think there were very different regions....the northeast was cheese-central under VKM, but once you got south of that, the Mid-Atlantic, Georgia, Texas areas were very old-school.   Florida could get a little goofy, but the other other southern territories were just more about wrestling without over the top gimmicks like the WWF.

Montague

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2011, 06:08:33 AM »
I think there were very different regions....the northeast was cheese-central under VKM, but once you got south of that, the Mid-Atlantic, Georgia, Texas areas were very old-school.   Florida could get a little goofy, but the other other southern territories were just more about wrestling without over the top gimmicks like the WWF.


Yeah.
I think Vince shattered the North's reputation a bit.
Although, they did have their share of cheese before that.

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2011, 06:12:45 AM »

Yeah.
I think Vince shattered the North's reputation a bit.
Although, they did have their share of cheese before that.


I always thought of the WWF, even years ago, as more of a "spectacle" like a circus.....they typically played in large metro areas, paid to have outside talent stop in on a regular basis but not for long.....later i thought of them more as the "hollywood blockbuster" type movies....very over the top, rely on gimmicky stuff, etc...  The NWA and AWA especially were more of the traditional movies of the past.  Some matches had a lot of layers, but others were just a kind of lead-in with some silliness.

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2011, 07:54:28 AM »
If you notice, the best wrestlers are they guys who worked in many territories and more importantly, Japan.

mass 04

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2011, 09:55:09 AM »
If you notice, the best wrestlers are they guys who worked in many territories and more importantly, Japan.
Agreed. Look at all the guys that went overseas...it speaks for itself.

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2011, 01:21:01 PM »
The thing with Bret and Shawn is that they are two totally different styles of wrestlers. Bret is very technically sound and could tie a guy up in all kinds of holds. He has a huge wrestling background and has been around it his whole life. Shawn on the other hand has more of the entertaining side down to such an art that he could wrestle a ladder and make the ladder look great. In terms of comparison, they are both good in their own way. Watch Bret versus Diesel in their street fight from Summerslam in 1995 and watch Shawn vs Diesel in early 1996 in one of the very first  IYH show PPV street fight match. You'll see both wrestlers making Kevin Nash aka "Diesel" look like a million dollars but in two very different ways. I voted Michaels ONLY because Michaels has the total package in terms of giving a good match which will never disappoint, his innovative moves, good promo's (remember his heartbreak Hotel segment back in 1994-1995 not to mention all the DX stuff), etc. Respect from the locker room and sheer wrestling ability definately goes to Hart.

mass 04

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2011, 03:48:52 PM »
I think Bret had better guys to work with. Hennig, Owen etc...even a guy like Backlund who was well past his prime was better than 95% of the roster. I agree that Shawn was more versatile. I couldn't see Bret having a good match in a Hell in a Cell. Shawn definitley was a better bumper.

Playboy

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2011, 04:43:12 AM »
I think Bret had better guys to work with. Hennig, Owen etc...even a guy like Backlund who was well past his prime was better than 95% of the roster. I agree that Shawn was more versatile. I couldn't see Bret having a good match in a Hell in a Cell. Shawn definitley was a better bumper.
Bullseye.

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2011, 05:43:25 AM »
Best there was, is, or ever will be! ( ;D ) My vote goes to Bret... In everything except career, i think Shawn had a "better" career than Bret did...
TEST+DECA+DBOL=BIG

mass 04

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2011, 09:08:39 AM »
Today also was the 1 year anniversary of

Montague

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2011, 12:36:36 PM »
Today also was the 1 year anniversary of



Wonder if they got the card I sent.

Montague

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2011, 12:36:46 PM »
 ;D

mass 04

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2011, 01:06:08 PM »

Wonder if they got the card I sent.
I'm pitching Vince an evil mail man gimmick.

Playboy

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2011, 01:11:27 PM »
Today also was the 1 year anniversary of

Has it been that long already? Man how time flies.

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2011, 02:03:25 PM »
shawn.

and I'm Canadian LOL
Flower Boy Ran Away

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2011, 04:01:04 PM »
bret,by far shawn was flashier,but bret had more skill and a better career.,

Playboy

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2011, 05:20:00 AM »
Their both great in their own respective way. It all depends on what type of match your looking for. I like them both and could watch any of their matches over and over.

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2011, 04:56:26 AM »
Shawn was all about the show whereas Bret was all about the match. I appreciated the emphasis being on the match even though a great buildup was necessary in most occasions so i would always pick Bret over Shawn. He was never the best on the mic even though his promo's improved with time (probably due to being the face of WWF when he was required to cut promos all the time) but the one consistency was his ability to have a brilliant match with men of all sizes, strengths and experience.

I just hated Shawn's attitude towards everyone, theres a time and place for crap like that but he always made a point of rubbing it peoples faces that he was #1. The whole "get out of my ring" scenario cemented my distaste of the man.

Montague

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Re: Shawn or Bret?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2011, 06:26:29 AM »
Sometimes I wonder if Bret’s and Shawn’s characters were what they wanted and tried to be in real life.

Bret seemed more down to earth inside and outside the ring.
Yes, he had his faults - as does everyone.
But, basically, he seemed like a genuinely good person.

I get the impression that Shawn tried playing the mouthy little runt/prick as often as he could get away with…Syracuse being one of the times he could not.
I never got into Shawn’s kayfabe character, and if that is how he is in real life (don‘t simply rely on what his detractors say), he’s not someone I’d sit down and have a beer with.

It sounds as though HBK was lucky to have some “big-bastard” friends to watch his back when he screwed up.