Author Topic: Obama making good on his promise to destroy jobs and the coal industry.  (Read 6835 times)

OzmO

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Progress does not usualy man having the govt point a gunto your head unless you support a communist state.   

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

In this case, discouraging the expansion the coal industry is a good first step into phasing it out.

I do agree, that perhaps my point may be a bit unrealistic given the quagmire of the countries government, green freaks, and EPA nazis, but the thinking is sound.  Nuclear energy is the way to go. 

Soul Crusher

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US axes permit for Arch's giant mountain coalmine [West Virginia: Obama's EPA]
Reuters ^ | January 13, 2011 | Timothy Gardner


________________________ ________________________ ____


The Obama administration revoked a permit on Thursday for Arch Coal Inc's (ACI.N) proposed Spruce 1 mountaintop coal mine in West Virginia, effectively shutting one of the biggest in the United States. "The proposed Spruce No. 1 Mine would use destructive and unsustainable mining practices that jeopardize the health of Appalachian communities and clean water on which they depend," said Peter Silvan, an assistant administrator for water, at the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA's final ruling under the Clean Water Act came after a scientific study, a public hearing, and a review of more than 50,000 public comments, the agency said. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had approved a permit for the mine in 2007, but it had not been fully constructed.

Lawmakers from West Virginia said the EPA's move would hurt the state's economy. "Today's EPA decision is not just fundamentally wrong, it is an unprecedented act by the federal government that will cost our state and our nation even more jobs during the worst recession in this country's history," Senator Joe Manchin, a Democrat, said in a release. Senator Jay Rockefeller, also a Democrat, wrote a letter to President Barack Obama, that said: "as a nation we must not fall into the trap of forcing unnecessary choices between protecting the environment and having good paying jobs that support energy independence." St. Louis-based Arch said it would vigorously defend the permit in court. EPA's revocation of the permit blocks an additional $250 million in investment and 250 jobs, the company said. It was the latest move by the Obama administration to crack down on mountaintop mining, in which companies blast high peaks to uncover coal seams and often toss the resulting rubble into valleys....


(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...




:15 - :24    - Obama:   "I will implement a cap & trade plan more agressive than anyone else."   Already said under his plan electric and energy rates will "SKYROCKET."   Cap & Trade already has resulted i drastically higher energy costs anywhere and everywhere it ever was tried.  


:25  - :35  - Calls for 100% auction.    That means draconian costs and targeting of coal for extinction as other sources will get preference for emissions.  So other sources will get favortism by the government while coal is targeted for extinction.    


:36 - :50  - Says whatever energy plants that do exist have to meet the mandates of the market that the govt creates.  Talk about an oxymoron, but that is besides the point.  the market that obama plans on creating is own where it is impossible for coal to exist.  SO HE IS TRYING TO MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR COAL COMPANIES TO EXIST!    

:51 - 1:00  - Says that govt is going to yearly ratchet down emissions standards to where no coal company could possibly meet it and if they did they would go bankrupt in the process.  CLEAR ON ITS FACE.  


1:00 - 1:07 - says that existing companies will be charged a huge amount for any coal emissions emitted to the point its crippling.  AGAIN - CLEAR AS DAY.  

  

        

OzmO

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No, 333333   he does not in any of the those clips say:  "I promise to bankrupt the coal industry"


Soul Crusher

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No, 333333   he does not in any of the those clips say:  "I promise to bankrupt the coal industry"




No, its a real big difference as saying "i will implement a plan making it impossible for existing coal plants to operate and new ones to form"    ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)

OzmO

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No, its a real big difference as saying "i will implement a plan making it impossible for existing coal plants to operate and new ones to form"    ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)

What he said (according to you) was: "I will implement a cap & trade plan more agressive than anyone else."

He did not say "I promise to bankrupt the coal industry." 


Soul Crusher

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What he said (according to you) was: "I will implement a cap & trade plan more agressive than anyone else."

He did not say "I promise to bankrupt the coal industry." 



That was one of the thngs he said, among the others, which included implementing plans making impossible for existing coal plants to operate due to regulations anad mandates he wants to impose as well as makingit impossible for any new plants to be built. 

Stop playing word games and parsing words, the sum and substance of his statements are clear as day.  Make it impossible for existing coals companies to operate and bankrupt any companies trying to build new plants.     

 

240 is Back

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President Romeny will convince repubs to buy into his renamed Cap/Trade plan,

You know this, mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.....

Did you hear him deeply explaining the need to control emissions?  He really buys into this shit.  This isn't palin in 2008, just rambling and nodding along with Qs she didn't understand.  This was Mitt in 2011 MAKING THE CASE for the need to limit man's pollution.  

Cap/Trade.  Just like he sold romneycare.  33, you voting mitt again?  ;)

OzmO

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That was one of the thngs he said, among the others, which included implementing plans making impossible for existing coal plants to operate due to regulations anad mandates he wants to impose as well as makingit impossible for any new plants to be built. 

Stop playing word games and parsing words, the sum and substance of his statements are clear as day.  Make it impossible for existing coals companies to operate and bankrupt any companies trying to build new plants.     

 

Bro, words games is what YOU are playing when you claim "Obama promised to bankrupt the coal industry."

A more accurate (non spun) assertion would be:  "Obama intends to diminish (reduce, phase out etc.) the coal industry with his policies"

Also, all that's going to happen is, energy cost will increase (skyrocket).  Coal power plants will still exist until they can be replaced. 

My major assertion here is that coal should be phased out over a period of years. 

Bush at least got some of the restrictions on Nuclear power weakened but we have a long way to go.

I am not for Obama here necessarily (although I was f-ing around to get your goat at times on these threads).  I don't know that the way Obama is doing it is best.


Soul Crusher

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Bro, words games is what YOU are playing when you claim "Obama promised to bankrupt the coal industry."

A more accurate (non spun) assertion would be:  "Obama intends to diminish (reduce, phase out etc.) the coal industry with his policies"

Also, all that's going to happen is, energy cost will increase (skyrocket).  Coal power plants will still exist until they can be replaced. 

My major assertion here is that coal should be phased out over a period of years. 

Bush at least got some of the restrictions on Nuclear power weakened but we have a long way to go.

I am not for Obama here necessarily (although I was f-ing around to get your goat at times on these threads).  I don't know that the way Obama is doing it is best.




No - he specifically uses the words bankrupt 

OzmO

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No - he specifically uses the words bankrupt  

In the context of new coal plants.  

Soul Crusher

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In the context of new coal plants. 

And he said he is going to implement rules and mandates on existing companies via his "carbon market" that make it impossible for them to operate.   

OzmO

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And he said he is going to implement rules and mandates on existing companies via his "carbon market" that make it impossible for them to operate.   

No, because they can't NOT operate.  As he said the cost will skyrocket.  People don't usually, at least were i live, have much of a choice where they get there power from. 

Soul Crusher

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No, because they can't NOT operate.  As he said the cost will skyrocket.  People don't usually, at least were i live, have much of a choice where they get there power from. 

And if the govt mandates costs and regulations that cant be met under any circumatances, what happens?


THEY GO BANKRUPT AND OUT OF BUSINESS.

OzmO

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And if the govt mandates costs and regulations that cant be met under any circumatances, what happens?


THEY GO BANKRUPT AND OUT OF BUSINESS.

So i can expect 614 coal power plants to shut down?

Highly doubt it.    All that is is spin.

 

Soul Crusher

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So i can expect 614 coal power plants to shut down?

Highly doubt it.    All that is is spin.

 

Really?   The EPA has just begun their insanity in regulating carbon.   

The EPA has done and is doing more harm o this nation than 50 OBL's could ever possibly imagine.     

OzmO

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Really?   The EPA has just begun their insanity in regulating carbon.   

The EPA has done and is doing more harm o this nation than 50 OBL's
could ever possibly imagine.     

Dude, i am with ya there!  The fucking EPA is evil.  I agree!

But we are not going to see 614 coal plants go belly up. 






Option D

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Dude, i am with ya there!  The fucking EPA is evil.  I agree!

But we are not going to see 614 coal plants go belly up. 



I had been said that. Hey when was the last time there was a Oil Refinery built?

30 years right

Guess Obama is to blame for that too..

Soul Crusher

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I had been said that. Hey when was the last time there was a Oil Refinery built?

30 years right

Guess Obama is to blame for that too..

Has he called for a new one to be built or has he done everything to shut down energy production in this country?   

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Has he called for a new one to be built or has he done everything to shut down energy production in this country?   

Did bush 1 or bush 2 or clinton or regan?

George Whorewell

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Well, what about tens of thousands of people who lost here jobs because GM and Chrysler weren't bailed out?

I am starting to doubt that you possess even subpar intelligence. GM and Chrysler produce cars that emit greenhouse gases. Greenhouse gases are bad for the environment. GM and Chrysler were bailed out. Coal is a non renewable energy source that is bad for the environment. Do you think that the coal industry should receive a government bailout to save jobs as well?

Before you say no, think of the absurdity of the above argument. By proxy, you are arguing the same exact thing in this thread. If the government ran the coal industry, what do you think would happen?( Hint: The coal industry can't finance its operations with tax payer dollars or bribe the public to use its product in the form of tax rebates). 

Soul Crusher

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Obama’s EPA Regulations Will Cost Coal Industry $200 Billion & Electricity Rates to Skyrocket
GatewayPundit ^ | 6/8/11 | Jim Hoft


________________________ ________________________ ______________-



In January 2008 Barack Obama told the San Francisco Chronicle:

“Under my plan of a cap and trade system electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Businesses would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that cost onto consumers.”


He promised that his plan would cause electricity rates to skyrocket. He wasn’t kidding.

In January, 2011 the Obama Administration, for the first time ever, blocked an already approved bid to build one of the largest mountaintop removal coal mines in Appalachian history.

And, today it was reported that Obama’s energy plans will cause electricity rates to necessarily skyrocket Just as he promised.

Via US News and World Reports:

Two new EPA pollution regulations will slam the coal industry so hard that hundreds of thousands of jobs will be lost, and electric rates will skyrocket 11 percent to over 23 percent, according to a new study based on government data.

Overall, the rules aimed at making the air cleaner could cost the coal-fired power plant industry $180 billion, warns a trade group.

“Many of these severe impacts would hit families living in states already facing serious economic challenges,” said Steve Miller, president of the American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity. “Because of these impacts, EPA should make major changes to the proposed regulations before they are finalized,” he said.

The EPA, however, tells Whispers that the hit the industry will suffer is worth the health benefits.



________________________ ________________________ _


Is this what you pieces of trash voted for? 

OzmO

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I am starting to doubt that you possess even subpar intelligence. GM and Chrysler produce cars that emit greenhouse gases. Greenhouse gases are bad for the environment. GM and Chrysler were bailed out. Coal is a non renewable energy source that is bad for the environment. Do you think that the coal industry should receive a government bailout to save jobs as well?

Before you say no, think of the absurdity of the above argument. By proxy, you are arguing the same exact thing in this thread. If the government ran the coal industry, what do you think would happen?( Hint: The coal industry can't finance its operations with tax payer dollars or bribe the public to use its product in the form of tax rebates).  

Sorry again I think you missed the point.  I think your intellectual arrogance prevents you from seeing it which also prevents you from having a normal discussion with out sarcasm or insults with anyone that doesn't 100% agree with you.  But that's just who you are.  Maybe you can drop the  stupid act of yours every once in a while.

My assertion was that without those bail outs thousands if not  tens of thousands would lose their jobs.  I was called sick because i supported reducing the coal industry and therefore supported people losing their jobs. By not supporting those bail outs for the GM and Chrysler you are in the same way supporting the loss of tens of thousands of jobs.  It was a comparison in the context of my argument with 33333.  Nothing more.  

Coal is bad and outdated.  It must go.  Not all at once, phased out over 20-30 years.  I don't know that what Obama is doing is  best and i don't know that we will ever get passed EPA crap regarding nuclear power.  But the thinking is sound.  Nuclear is the way to go.  No more coal.  


George Whorewell

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Sorry again I think you missed the point.  I think your intellectual arrogance prevents you from seeing it which also prevents you from having a normal discussion with out sarcasm or insults with anyone that doesn't 100% agree with you.  But that's just who you are.  Maybe you can drop the  stupid act of yours every once in a while.

My assertion was that without those bail outs thousands if not  tens of thousands would lose their jobs.  I was called sick because i supported reducing the coal industry and therefore supported people losing their jobs. By not supporting those bail outs for the GM and Chrysler you are in the same way supporting the loss of tens of thousands of jobs.  It was a comparison in the context of my argument with 33333.  Nothing more.  

Coal is bad and outdated.  It must go.  Not all at once, phased out over 20-30 years.  I don't know that what Obama is doing is  best and i don't know that we will ever get passed EPA crap regarding nuclear power.  But the thinking is sound.  Nuclear is the way to go.  No more coal.  


I understand your point perfectly. And you are flat out wrong. Nothing arrogant about it-- just speaking the truth. When a company fails because of its own incompetence, it should be allowed to do so. I don't want to dwell on why the bailouts were disgraceful, illegal and ineffective; suffice it to say that you are comparing apples and bowling balls. Ford did just fine without being subsidized by the government. What do we have now? An American auto industry that is an acting a wing of the Obama administration where the UAW owns 60%.

 Coal is being killed despite its profitability because of an administration that is hostile toward business and ideologically zealous to the point of delirium. Coal can and would do just fine without the Obama administrations foot on its neck. Coal doesn't need a bailout-- it needs to be able to operate without paying billions in added costs that the EPA manufactured out of thin air.

If you can't see the difference between these two situations, lets just agree to disagree. Confidence and arrogance are two different things. In this case, the facts and logic are not on your side.

OzmO

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I understand your point perfectly. And you are flat out wrong. Nothing arrogant about it-- just speaking the truth. When a company fails because of its own incompetence, it should be allowed to do so. I don't want to dwell on why the bailouts were disgraceful, illegal and ineffective; suffice it to say that you are comparing apples and bowling balls. Ford did just fine without being subsidized by the government. What do we have now? An American auto industry that is an acting a wing of the Obama administration where the UAW owns 60%.

 Coal is being killed despite its profitability because of an administration that is hostile toward business and ideologically zealous to the point of delirium. Coal can and would do just fine withOk moron. Let's do a comparison with the following quotes-- out the Obama administrations foot on its neck. Coal doesn't need a bailout-- it needs to be able to operate without paying billions in added costs that the EPA manufactured out of thin air.

If you can't see the difference between these two situations, lets just agree to disagree. Confidence and arrogance are two different things. In this case, the facts and logic are not on your side.

So its ok for people to lose their jobs if its for the right reasons?  Right.  It was just a comparison George.  I am not defending the auto bail outs



Soul Crusher

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One is a result of a failed business model and poor business practices. 

The other is a result of purposeful govt meddling and regulation by fiat. 

Hope you can realize the difference.