Better bodybuilder and Better physique, Shawn Ray or Nasser?

[G_Thang]

i agree than nasser at NOC 95 presented his best shape ever at 260 lbs and also at huston pro. show less than a month earlier at 268 pounds.. his shape at these 2 shows imo was clearly better than his shape at mr. olympia 97 which is considered by many his best shape!!..

first 2 pics from the NOC and the 3rd is from huston..

i can feel the man love alex23 n you have for nasser.  it's almost BayGBMish which is troubling.   

[Big Worm]

i can feel the man love alex23 n you have for nasser.  it's almost BayGBMish which is troubling.   

Mr.Thang speaks the truth!

[Sherief Shalaby]

Mr.Thang speaks the truth!

mr. worm you are boring above the norm

[Big Worm]

mr. worm you are boring above the norm

And you are predictable..

[bigdumbbell]

midget class   shawn
standard class  nasser

cant compare the two

[JasonH]

 Ok, let's break down all that which is evaluated during a bodybuilding contest and see how Shawn and Nasser compare. What are the criteria used to evaluate professional bodybuilding physiques by I.F.B.B standards? These are the criteria that are evaluated:

  Muscularity:

  - Muscle development - the size of the muscles

  - Muscular quality - how defined, dense and striated the muscle is.

  - Muscular aesthetics - just one thing: the roundness of the muscle. The rounder the muscle, the prettier it is.

  Symmetry: divided in muscular symmetry, called balance, and skeletal symmetry called "frame":

  Muscular symmetry - how proportional the muscles of one side of the body are to the corresponding muscle on the other side of the body, and how proportioal in size all the muscles are compared to each other. For instance, if both your delts are exactly the same size but overpower the pectorals, then they have good symmetry but lack balance.

  Skeletal symmetry - how proportional the legs are in length to the torso, the clavicles in relation to the previous two things, and the arms in relation to the previous four things.

  All these things are judged at once in both the symmetry round and the muscularity round(the mandatories). So it would be foolish to compare them in all mandatories and quarter turns instead of evaluating how they add up in the critera I mentioned.

  If we compare Nasser and Ray, we must compare them at their best which for Nasser would be his 1999 ASC form and for Ray his 1987 NPC Nationals form. So how do they compare? Let's break it down by assigning 1 point for each category and then adding up.

  Muscularity:

  Muscular development - Nasser wins hands down, and even though this is due mostly to his much larger frame, it doesen't matter +1N

  Muscular quality - Ray wins although not by a huge margin. At his best, Ray is more defined, dense and striated than Nasser overral. +1R

  Muscular aesthetics - Ray wins hands down. Not even debateable. Nasser is blocky. +1R

  Symmetry:

  Muscular symmetry - Ray wins although not by a huge margin. Ray had great symmetry and balance in his muscles except for his small calves. Nasser was missing the entire back complex compared to his monstrous deltoid, pec and especially quadriceps. The back has almost 40 muscles. A severe balance problem. +1R

  Skeletal symmetry - Nasser wins. Both Nasser and Ray have torsos that are too long for their legs, but Ray's were worst. Ray also had narrow clavicles, whilst Nasser had superbly wide ones. +1N

  So Ray scores +3 and Nasser scores +2.

  In conclusion: Ray at his best is better than Nasser, but this is made hard because I am ascribing equal points to all categories, but lots of people would say that muscular development should receive more than +1 point since it is called bodybuilding. But if we are unbiased and take into consideration all things that make up a bodybuilder, Shawn at his best beats Nasser. So there you have it.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  

Good post.

[suckmymuscle]

so if i like nasser only because of his nationality and religion it was more proper for me to support mustafa mahmoud who is 100% arab and not half arab like nasser..

  Because Nasser was way better. You are picking the best Arabic bodybuilder. You know that if you picked Mustafa few people would support you since there are so many better bodybuilders. But Nasser is one of the greats, so you chose him because he is the best bodybuilder of Arabic descent so he serves as a much better example of bodybuilding "Arab greatness". Simple as that. These are your criterias in descending order of importance:

  1. The race/nationality/religion of the bodybuilder.

  2. The best bodybuilder among your favorite(Arabic) race/nationality.

  Do you really expect us to believe that you, Big Bobs and Sharma, who are all of Arabic descent, prefer the Arabic bodybuilder over all others simply because you prefer his physique? Do you think we are stupid?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Sherief Shalaby]

 Because Nasser was way better. You are picking the best Arabic bodybuilder. You know that if you picked Mustafa few people would support you since there are so many better bodybuilders. But Nasser is one of the greats, so you chose him because he is the best bodybuilder of Arabic descent so he serves as a much better example of bodybuilding "Arab greatness". Simple as that. These are your criterias in descending order of importance:

  1. The race/nationality/religion of the bodybuilder.

  2. The best bodybuilder among your favorite(Arabic) race/nationality.

  Do you really expect us to believe that you, Big Bobs and Sharma, who are all of Arabic descent, prefer the Arabic bodybuilder over all others simply because you prefer his physique? Do you think we are stupid?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

and what is the problem to support him more because of his arab/egyptian origin since i am egyptian??!!.. can you blame an english man for supporting dorian more than the US bbs?!..

but i like him mainly because of his great physique (as a bb - no homo) and the fact that his father is egyptian doesnt mean i support him blindly,.. i said before many times that dorian deserved to win mr. olympia 95 and i never said that nasser deserved better places when he started to look bad..

my favorite bb from the 80s is lee haney and not mohamed makkawy who is 100% egyptian and who was a very great bb too (2 times mr. olympia runner up).. but still my very favorite from this era is haney and i never said makkawy deserved to win any sandow on the contrary i see that haney deserved to come 2nd instead of makkawy and not 3rd in mr. olympia 1983!!..

also i like samir bannout (as a bb) more than makkawy and yes both are arabs but samir is christian!!..

so believe it or not neither the nationality nor the religion of any bb affects my opinion about him but they may make me support him more when he deserves and this is very normal and not doing so is the strange thing..

also dont tell me that all the assholes here who say shit about nasser all the time really see him a bad bb and dont hate him because of his religion and origins ..

nasser was really lucky he came in the 90s and not after sep. 11, 2001!!..

by the way big bobs is pakistani and pakistan is not arab .. go and learn some geography or you are another one who thinks that dubai is in india and austria is a brief of australia ..

[suckmymuscle]

and what is the problem to support him more because of his arab/egyptian origin since i am egyptian??!!.. can you blame an english man for supporting dorian more than the US bbs?!..

but i like him mainly because of his great physique (as a bb - no homo) and the fact that his father is egyptian doesnt mean i support him blindly,.. i said before many times that dorian deserved to win mr. olympia 95 and i never said that nasser deserved better places when he started to look bad..

my favorite bb from the 80s is lee haney and not mohamed makkawy who is 100% egyptian and who was a very great bb too (2 times mr. olympia runner up).. but still my very favorite from this era is haney and i never said makkawy deserved to win any sandow on the contrary i see that haney deserved to come 2nd instead of makkawy and not 3rd in mr. olympia 1983!!..

also i like samir bannout (as a bb) more than makkawy and yes both are arabs but samir is christian!!..

so believe it or not neither the nationality nor the religion of any bb affects my opinion about him but they may make me support him more when he deserves and this is very normal and not doing so is the strange thing..

also dont tell me that all the assholes here who say shit about nasser all the time really see him a bad bb and dont hate him because of his religion and origins..

nasser was really lucky he came in the 90s and not after sep. 11, 2001!!..

by the way big bobs is pakistani and pakistan is not arab .. go and learn some geography or you are another one who thinks that dubai is in india and austria is a brief of australia ..

  You shouldn't prefer a bodybuilder because he belongs to your race. That is really petty and reveals a character flaw you posses.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Palpatine Q]

and what is the problem to support him more because of his arab/egyptian origin since i am egyptian??!!.. can you blame an english man for supporting dorian more than the US bbs?!..

but i like him mainly because of his great physique (as a bb - no homo) and the fact that his father is egyptian doesnt mean i support him blindly,.. i said before many times that dorian deserved to win mr. olympia 95 and i never said that nasser deserved better places when he started to look bad..

my favorite bb from the 80s is lee haney and not mohamed makkawy who is 100% egyptian and who was a very great bb too (2 times mr. olympia runner up).. but still my very favorite from this era is haney and i never said makkawy deserved to win any sandow on the contrary i see that haney deserved to come 2nd instead of makkawy and not 3rd in mr. olympia 1983!!..

also i like samir bannout (as a bb) more than makkawy and yes both are arabs but samir is christian!!..

so believe it or not neither the nationality nor the religion of any bb affects my opinion about him but they may make me support him more when he deserves and this is very normal and not doing so is the strange thing..

also dont tell me that all the assholes here who say shit about nasser all the time really see him a bad bb and dont hate him because of his religion and origins ..

nasser was really lucky he came in the 90s and not after sep. 11, 2001!!..

by the way big bobs is pakistani and pakistan is not arab .. go and learn some geography or you are another one who thinks that dubai is in india and austria is a brief of australia ..

I see where you are coming from and i have no problem with someone exhibiting racial or cultural pride.

But the fact is ...whether you admit it or not....that if Nasser's name was James Watson and he was the same exact person, except he came from Ohio....there wouldn't even be a "Team Watson"

[Sherief Shalaby]

  You shouldn't prefer a bodybuilder because he belongs to your race. That is really petty and reveals a character flaw you posses.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

you understand nothing of what i said and as you said before it's pointless to have any argument between us..

[Sherief Shalaby]

I see where you are coming from and i have no problem with someone exhibiting racial or cultural pride.

But the fact is ...whether you admit it or not....that if Nasser's name was James Watson and he was the same exact person, except he came from Ohio....there wouldn't even be a "Team Watson"

sure and i dont deny this but this doesn't mean i wouldn't have supported mr. watson saying it was injustice to lose in front of one armed pregnant bb in 1997!!.. i did many threads before to show injustices against many bbs like victor martines, padila, aron paker and more although i am not a big fan of any of them (except padila)..

and i dont think i need to always say that this team nasser thing is all for fun

[suckmymuscle]

you understand nothing of what i said and as you said before it's pointless to have any argument between us..

  It's very simple to understand. You like Nasser because he is of the same ethnic background as yourself. You are a racist. This is not rocket science.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Sherief Shalaby]

  It's very simple to understand. You like Nasser because he is of the same ethnic background as yourself. You are a racist. This is not rocket science.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

and you hate him because of his ethnic background and if he was from ohio and his name was watson you wouldn't have cared that much!!.. you are a racist.. this is not building the pyramids more than 3000 years ago when the rest of the world including your country was eating raw pigs to live

[suckmymuscle]

and you hate him because of his ethnic background

  Not really. Samir Bannout is one of my favorite 5 bodybuilders and I actually admire Arabs for the way they keep their women under control. And most Arabs have been the friendliest people I've ever met. Much more pleasant than Northern European germanic/teutonic races and their descendants who tend to be cold, impersonal and robotic.

and if he was from ohio and his name was watson you wouldn't have cared that much!!..

  Sure I would if the guy worshipping him were white and he prefered "Watson" over a better bodybuilder of other race. That would be racist.

you are a racist..

  No. Clearly, you are the racist.

this is not building the pyramids more than 3000 years ago when the rest of the world including your country was eating raw pigs to live

  Actually, the pyramids were built by Hamitic neolithic tribes that have very little in common with modern Arabs. But it doesen't matter. I am an individualist and don't take pride in racial or nationalistic feats and what the West has accomplished over the last 200 years easily surpasses what the Arabs have achieved in 5,000 years of recorded history.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[epic_alien]

hey shareif

humans didnt build the pyramids.

you cumbubble

[Palpatine Q]

and you hate him because of his ethnic background and if he was from ohio and his name was watson you wouldn't have cared that much!!.. you are a racist.. this is not building the pyramids more than 3000 years ago when the rest of the world including your country was eating raw pigs to live

That's not really true Sharief.

Before Team Nasser came around nobody had much to say about Nasser, he was regarded as one of the best guys from the 90's who never won the o because his back was lagging, and Dorian probably got a gift at his expense in 97...That was about the extent of the "nasser talk" around here.

I can remember when Team Nasser first started their shenanigans....we were all like "Ok.....Nasser was a good BBer, and you guys like Nasser....we get it"  and the rest is history 

Nobody was shopping Nasser pics, calling him El Synthol-boty and saying "one eye on autopilot"  before you guys came around....and that is the 100% unbiased truth

[Danny-Boy]

It all boils down to your perspective of what bodybuilding should exemplify-- Attainment of Physical Perfection
Now the theme in this thread is practically about-- Does one want to look like a "Greek God" or a "Mass Monster" ?

I choose the Greek God(Shawn Ray physique resemblance) -which is more likely favorable to mainstream america and the rest of the world(and also golden era when people gave more of an acceptance to bodybuilding)--- Nasser at his best would be seen as a chemical abomination to 9/10 people (id say even more)  yet he does adhere to contemporary standards (But has that--"He def is on drugs look)---  WHICH is WHY PEOPLE ARE DISGUSTED W BODYBUILDING--and is not accepted..n will never be if this continues

[geneticmarvel]

i can feel the man love alex23 n you have for nasser.  it's almost BayGBMish which is troubling.   

Man love? You mean respect.

[Nirvana]

I prefer the balanced and proportioned physique that had good flow such as shown by nasser.  being so big that you can barely get dressed is also right up my alley.

[suckmymuscle]

  Sherief Shalabi, Sharma and Big Bobs are racists. They love Nasser not because of his physique but because he is of their same race. Or do they expect us to believe that 3 Arabic guys would all prefer the one Arabic pro bodybuilder over all others just because they prefer his physique? How gullible to these racists think we are?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[bigdumbbell]

Shawn Ray is African-American. He can NEVER look Greek

[Boost]

Watch Shawn's "Inside & Out" and "The Final Countdown" DVD's.

They're among the best bodybuilding vids out there.

[Wiggs]

I prefer the balanced and proportioned physique that had good flow such as shown by nasser.  being so big that you can barely get dressed is also right up my alley.

so fucking outed.

[Nirvana]

so fucking outed.

it's only gay if you want it to be